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Apple & Samsung combine for 106% of handset profits as competitors continue to bleed cash

post #1 of 73
Thread Starter 
Apple remained by far the most profitable mobile phone maker in the just-concluded March quarter with 65 percent of value, while all other competitors except Samsung either lost money or broke even, the latest research shows.




While Apple took the lion's share of industry profits in the first quarter of calendar 2014, according to the latest estimates from Canaccord Genuity, Samsung was in second with a 41 percent share.

Beyond that, every single other company either had a negative value share, or they were neutral.

The biggest loser in the quarter was Nokia, which was estimated to have had a net impact of -3 percent on industry profits. Also losing money were BlackBerry and Motorola, both of which accounted for -1 percent.

Breaking essentially even, and thus having a 0 percent share of industry profits, were Sony, LG and HTC.




Losses by Nokia, BlackBerry and Motorola, and neutral showings for the other biggest players, mean that Apple and Samsung together account for more than 100 percent of industry profits estimated by analyst Michael Wakley. Apple achieved this with mobile device operating margins estimated at 37 percent, while Samsung saw operating margins of 22 percent.

Apple's estimated share is up from the same period a year ago, when the company was pegged to represent 57 percent of industry profits. Samsung, meanwhile, was down from 43 percent in the year-ago quarter.

Apple and Samsung have been combining for more than 100 percent of industry profits for numerous consecutive quarters, a feat possible only because their competitors continue to bleed cash and struggle to contend with market leading devices like the iPhone or Galaxy S lineups.

Walkley noted on Thursday noted that Chinese smartphone manufacturers are growing in their home country, but his analysis excludes this group due to the lack of available profit metrics from those companies.

"Given the current competitive dynamics, we believe Apple and Samsung will maintain dominant value share during 2014," Walkley said. "With BlackBerry struggling and Microsoft purchasing dominant Windows Phone OEM Nokia, we believe Chinese OEMs with strong Android portfolios will likely emerge as stronger long-term competitors to Apple and Samsung."
post #2 of 73

I hate to say this, when are they going to put knife in Motorola, it has been loosing money since 2005, I mean the cell phone piece the only reason they showed a profit was due to all their other business. Really 9 years and not a single quarter of profits. I highly doubt Lenovo will turn it around. What you will see is them stick the Motorola name of the cheap ass phone they make so they can sell in the US market.

post #3 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple and Samsung together account for more than 100 percent of industry profits"
Because they gave 110% effort, right?
rolleyes
post #4 of 73
I'm going to get dinged but Apple should seriously consider Wozniaks suggestion and have Apple offer Android cell phones. If Apple buys, HTC...they get contracts, licenses, etc. as well. HTC is considered by the Industry the best Android phone worldwide. Image it would shake the very foundation of Samsungs plastic phone.
post #5 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS9 View Post

I'm going to get dinged but Apple should seriously consider Wozniaks suggestion and have Apple offer Android cell phones. If Apple buys, HTC...they get contracts, licenses, etc. as well. HTC is considered by the Industry the best Android phone worldwide. Image it would shake the very foundation of Samsungs plastic phone.

Yeah! Great idea. They should license iOS Samsung too.

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post #6 of 73
Yes, and likewise, Mercedes should buy Fiat and make low cost low value cars. Volume is everything. Really?
post #7 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Because they gave 110% effort, right?
rolleyes

106% of profits indicates loss by the others because they went into the negative. 

post #8 of 73

CORRECTION:

 

Apple & CLONE combine for 106% of handset profits as competitors continue to bleed cash...

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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post #9 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS9 View Post

I'm going to get dinged but Apple should seriously consider Wozniaks suggestion and have Apple offer Android cell phones. If Apple buys, HTC...they get contracts, licenses, etc. as well. HTC is considered by the Industry the best Android phone worldwide. Image it would shake the very foundation of Samsungs plastic phone.

No offense, but that's the dumbest idea ever. Apple sells iOS devices. They make money selling iPhones. HTC isn't making money on Android.

----

So 106% is the new 103%.
post #10 of 73
What a dumb headline. Losses aren't profits. You can't grab more than 100% of something. Apple and Samsung combined grabbed 100% of the profits.
post #11 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

What a dumb headline. Losses aren't profits. You can't grab more than 100% of something. Apple and Samsung combined grabbed 100% of the profits.

Everybody knows that but if AI writes something that preposterous in the headline, they know thousands of people will click on it.

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post #12 of 73
Since when have Apple and Samsung "combined" their profits?

What a ridiculous headline for the report. The only purpose for saying something like "Coke and Pepsi earn the most money together!" is to obfuscate whether Coke or Pepsi is leading, and distract away from every other loser.

Apple's "% share" of Q1 phone profits is up YoY, from 57 to 65%; earnings went from $8 to $9.6 billion.

Samsung's "% share" of Q1 phone profits down YoY, from 43 to 41%. It earned an unchanged $6 billion.

"Breaking essentially even, and thus having a 0 percent share of industry profits, were Sony, LG and HTC."

Nokia, LG, Sony, HTC, Motorola & BlackBerry all lost money in Q1, with only LG & Sony reporting even a minor profit across all of 2013.

Sony losing $3 million, LG losing $8 million and HTC losing $68 million in THREE MONTHS is not really "breaking even."
post #13 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS9 View Post

I'm going to get dinged but Apple should seriously consider Wozniaks suggestion and have Apple offer Android cell phones. If Apple buys, HTC...they get contracts, licenses, etc. as well. HTC is considered by the Industry the best Android phone worldwide. Image it would shake the very foundation of Samsungs plastic phone.

 

Apple already gets royalties from HTC. Taking over an operation that loses millions of dollars per quarter is not really Apple's bag.

 

There is virtually ZERO demand for Android phones. There are lots of people who can only choose between various phones that are $300 or less, and those devices now often run Android rather than Java, but Nokia Asha (now run by Microsoft!) and Blackberry also sell low end phones, along with embedded phones sold by LG, etc. Not a market to be in.

 

The media has invented the idea that "Android" is a market rather than an ingredient that has primarily found a market among low end devices. 

post #14 of 73
It's got to be tough running Microsoft's mobile division.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #15 of 73
IMHO all of the other major Android OEMs should pool together some dough and help pay some of the Apple court costs.

Apple's the only one ready to fight Samsung and their marketing/sales/product (BS) tactics... which in the end levels the playing field more for the OEMs than it does anything for Apple.

Heck... all Apple gets out of it is the Principles and Morality high road, while catching all of the Troll-Boy flak on their low road trip to "Good Enough City" camouflaged as good for consumers.
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post #16 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Everybody knows that but if AI writes something that preposterous in the headline, they know thousands of people will click on it.

 

There needs to be a term to combine profits and losses. The 106% is correct via (Apple + Samsung profits)/ (Apple + Samsung profits - everybody else's loss)

 

To not include the loss part would be disingenuous

post #17 of 73
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post

Apple & CLONE combine for 106% of handset profits as competitors continue to bleed cash...

 

 

Apple hardware and software design responsible for 106% of handset profits; all other content loses money

 

Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

To not include the loss part would be disingenuous

 

No, it would actually make sense.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #18 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post
 

 

There needs to be a term to combine profits and losses. The 106% is correct via (Apple + Samsung profits)/ (Apple + Samsung profits - everybody else's loss)

 

To not include the loss part would be disingenuous

Link to clarify ....  (or as DED would say - 'This has happened before')

 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160733/apple-samsung-take-massive-109-of-mobile-industry-profits-while-competitors-lose-money

post #19 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post
 

Link to clarify ....  (or as DED would say - 'This has happened before')

 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160733/apple-samsung-take-massive-109-of-mobile-industry-profits-while-competitors-lose-money


Oh I know it's happened before I was more arguing for a different word rather than "profit" to hopefully avoid these conversations

post #20 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

There needs to be a term to combine profits and losses. The 106% is correct via (Apple + Samsung profits)/ (Apple + Samsung profits - everybody else's loss)

To not include the loss part would be disingenuous

It is called profit AND loss for a reason. Growing them together to form a pross is bad math on many levels.
post #21 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by manxman View Post

Yes, and likewise, Mercedes should buy Fiat and make low cost low value cars. Volume is everything. Really?

Mercedes does offer low cost cars. You've heard of the A-Class and B-Class right?

post #22 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post


Because they gave 110% effort, right?
rolleyes

No.  Because others are contributing negative profits.  It all adds to 100% as it should.

post #23 of 73
Apple takes 61.3% of handset profits, Samsung takes 38.7%, all others lose or break-even

How's that for a headline?
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post #24 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post


Because they gave 110% effort, right?
rolleyes

 

They felt good, they played good, they gave it 110%.  How does someone make 106% of the profits?  How does that "happen"?  LOL.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F4W0R1Zr_8

post #25 of 73
106% of profits?
How is it possible to have more than 100% of of something.
Better title would be apple samsung had 100 % of the profits!
The remaining few lost 6 % .
Bundeling loss and profit in one number is misleading !
post #26 of 73

These other companies need to listen to the analysts and cut their prices/margins and make up for the losses by selling in greater volumes. /s

post #27 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

106% of profits?
How is it possible to have more than 100% of of something.
Better title would be apple samsung had 100 % of the profits!
The remaining few lost 6 % .
Bundeling loss and profit in one number is misleading !

Imagine if the others lost almost exactly as much as Samsung and Apple earned, so the total industry profit was ten cents.  Apple and Sumsung would be earning 100000000000000000000% of the industry profits.  Cool!!!!

post #28 of 73
Lol
post #29 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Imagine if the others lost almost exactly as much as Samsung and Apple earned, so the total industry profit was ten cents.  Apple and Sumsung would be earning 100000000000000000000% of the industry profits.  Cool!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Imagine if the others lost almost exactly as much as Samsung and Apple earned, so the total industry profit was ten cents.  Apple and Sumsung would be earning 100000000000000000000% of the industry profits.  Cool!!!!

LoL
post #30 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

It is called profit AND loss for a reason. Growing them together to form a pross is bad math on many levels.

Except there isn't a 'loss' column in financial reports so a negative number is used in the 'profit' column to indicate a loss.
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post #31 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

106% of profits?
How is it possible to have more than 100% of of something.
Better title would be apple samsung had 100 % of the profits!
The remaining few lost 6 % .
Bundeling loss and profit in one number is misleading !

If you add up the gains and the losses it adds up to 100%. Leave out the losses and the gains equal 106%. This has all been discussed before.
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post #32 of 73

It's funny, every time this metric is mentioned there has to be a handful of dumb-asses coming here to proclaim that "you can't have more than 100% of something".  Ok then, what if you have something, say a company that grows 150%?  Or you can't have any company grow more than 100% either?  It all depends on what you compare.

 

You know, it's not rocket science.  The industry as a whole made X amount of money.  Apple & Samsung combined made more than X.  That is all.

 

It's like having a company with multiple divisions, some which are profitable, some which are not.  Should the company then only report the profit from profitable divisions because the losses from the others "aren't profits"?  LOL!  SEC would have a field day with that one!


Edited by kForceZero - 5/8/14 at 11:20am
post #33 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS9 View Post

I'm going to get dinged but Apple should seriously consider Wozniaks suggestion and have Apple offer Android cell phones. If Apple buys, HTC...they get contracts, licenses, etc. as well. HTC is considered by the Industry the best Android phone worldwide. Image it would shake the very foundation of Samsungs plastic phone.


Yeah... Apple, a company that makes most of the profits already, should buy a company that makes zero profit to support a botched OS that is inferior to iOS.  Great plan.  

post #34 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post


It is called profit AND loss for a reason. Growing them together to form a pross is bad math on many levels.

 

Where exactly is it "called profit AND loss"?  It's profit OR loss, you can't have both profit & loss simultaneously.  You add up all the profits & all the losses and you end up with either a net profit or a net loss.  You might want to refresh your math skills, this isn't bad math.

post #35 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

If you add up the gains and the losses it adds up to 100%. Leave out the losses and the gains equal 106%. This has all been discussed before.

I guess either way of representing it has value, but one way seems to generate a lot more consternation than the other.
Edited by RadarTheKat - 5/8/14 at 11:55am
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post #36 of 73
news flash: appleinsider 'writers' pen 214% of the internet blogosphere's stupidest headlines!!!
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post #37 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

106% of profits?
How is it possible to have more than 100% of of something.
Better title would be apple samsung had 100 % of the profits!
The remaining few lost 6 % .
Bundeling loss and profit in one number is misleading !

 

What would be the point of reporting something that is always true?  All the profitable companies put together always make 100% of the profits.  It just takes up space and provides zero insight.  There's nothing misleading about "bundling it in one number" it shows the relative strength of Apple & Samsung compared to the rest of the industry.

post #38 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

What a ridiculous headline for the report....
Considering some of your headlines DED/Corrections aren't you calling the kettle black?
post #39 of 73

I don't understand why these smartphone manufacturers continue to hang in and lose money.  It doesn't make any sense to just keep getting pounded quarter after quarter.  I'm sure there must be other things they can do where they can be profitable.  With Google's stupid, freely licensed Android OS, everyone and their mother thinks they can be some smartphone mogul building dirt-cheap smartphones out from their garages and basements.  There's simply just too much of a glut of Android smartphones on the market and why can't these people see that there are no profits to be made by being a minor player.  I thought the Android tablet market would also have shaken out the peanut-gallery manufacturers by now.  It's like they don't know when to quit.  Are they stupid or do they think they're going to get lucky?  Why are there so many smartphone manufacturers?  There's probably more smartphone manufacturers than microwave oven or toaster companies.  It's just so absurd for them all to think they can take down the big boys that are flush with cash.  Every other day on Engadget there's some new Android smartphone that's supposedly going to put Apple's iPhone business into ruins.  A month later and the company is never heard from again.

 

Google's Android OS gave all these nobodies dreams of grandeur and the sooner it stops the better.  Please, no more Android smartphones.

post #40 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by kForceZero View Post
 

 

Where exactly is it "called profit AND loss"?  It's profit OR loss, you can't have both profit & loss simultaneously.  You add up all the profits & all the losses and you end up with either a net profit or a net loss.  You might want to refresh your math skills, this isn't bad math.

Exactly? One's quarterly financial statement is a "Profit and Loss Statement" -- not a "Profit or Loss Statement". 

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