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Beats deal defenders cite 'humanized' music subscription service as benefit to Apple - Page 6

post #201 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post


Have you used a Beats headphone say... for movies and gaming ? I am going to try soon.
I had two pairs of Beats when they were affiliated with Monster. Build quality was awful. After the cable on the second pair started to fray I returned them and got a pair of Klipsch instead and never looked back. I hope if Apple continues to sell the headphones they'll improve the build quality.
post #202 of 243
I'm using the Beats app to play the "sentence" while I'm surfing and reading various articles about the acquisition.

I've only used the app for about 15 minutes and the curating process is pretty damn good.

After my seven day free trial is up I likely will join for $10 a month for as long as I feel it's worth it.

No-brainer, really…

I can see it being incorporated into The iOS control center -- where you could be reading or doing something on your iPad and, at the same time, getting music for the moment.
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post #203 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


When has Apple ever purchased another company for its brand? From everything we can tell there is no valuable IP or other technology that Beats has. Maybe it's the deals they have with the record companies but how likely is it that those would transfer to Apple? So basically you have Apple spending $3B to get young people whose parents overpay for crappy headphones to think Apple is cool.

 

They have something working that's gaining momentum in the high end segment. That alone is worth a lot. 

 

$3.2b valuation is taking into consideration the startup's business performance. It is not so common for a startup to make money.

As for technology, Apple has them. If Beats can use Apple tech, then all the better.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I had two pairs of Beats when they were affiliated with Monster. Build quality was awful. After the cable on the second pair started to fray I returned them and got a pair of Klipsch instead and never looked back. I hope if Apple continues to sell the headphones they'll improve the build quality.
 
That's what I'm talking about. Based on what I have read, their products have improved. 

Check out the recent ones.

If it's that obvious, they can't fool Apple. Remember, Apple sell Beats headphones. They will know about the returns rate. 

 

Edited by patsu - 5/9/14 at 4:05pm
post #204 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

All Apple has to do is continue making the best products that they can. If they do that, then the rest takes care of itself. 

If Apple tries to buy something mainly based on it's perceived "coolness" factor, then I would argue that Apple has abandoned their mission directive and lost it's soul.
Ben Bajarin's tweet below gives me some comfort that there's more to this than meets the eye. I sure hope do. Because if it's just about trying to get young people to think Apple is cool then I agree with you Apple really had lost its dole.

@BenBajarin: @eric_perlberg Lots more positives than cons IMO. Been talking to music execs. Seems this is more interesting than what’s on the surface
post #205 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

All Apple has to do is continue making the best products that they can. If they do that, then the rest takes care of itself. 

If Apple tries to buy something mainly based on it's perceived "coolness" factor, then I would argue that Apple has abandoned their mission directive and lost it's soul.
Ben Bajarin's tweet below gives me some comfort that there's more to this than meets the eye. I sure hope do. Because if it's just about trying to get young people to think Apple is cool then I agree with you Apple really had lost its dole.

@BenBajarin: @eric_perlberg Lots more positives than cons IMO. Been talking to music execs. Seems this is more interesting than what’s on the surface

Read this one too:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2153481/why-the-beats-deal-shows-apple-is-actually-listening.html
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post #206 of 243

I keep hearing how this could be good for Apple because Beats is popular.  But popular is not the same thing as good. Android is popular too you know.

post #207 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
 

I keep hearing how this could be good for Apple because Beats is popular.  But popular is not the same thing as good. Android is popular too you know.

 

It's not just popular. It's popular and priced at a premium. Plus the pretty unique music streaming service. People pay for it and Apple continue to carry it in their stores. If customers hated it, Apple would have heard, and perhaps pulled it from their stores.

 

It is different from giving out for free or selling at cost to gain marketshare.


Edited by patsu - 5/9/14 at 4:22pm
post #208 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I keep hearing how this could be good for Apple because Beats is popular.  But popular is not the same thing as good. Android is popular too you know.

Read this article that I posted above:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2153481/why-the-beats-deal-shows-apple-is-actually-listening.html

Not only does it curate your playlist but you can download them to your device… Think of what it means for CarPlay.

Just consider the negotiating power and entrée to the record companies that this acquisition will give Apple.

Why don't you download the app, get the free trial, define what you like and try it for yourself?
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post #209 of 243
Duplicatw
post #210 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post
 

 

It's not just popular. It's popular and priced at a premium. Plus the pretty unique music streaming service. People pay for it and Apple continue to carry it in their stores. If customers hated it, Apple would have heard, and perhaps pulled it from their stores.

 

It is different from giving out for free or selling at cost to gain marketshare.

So Apple will now be known for pushing overpriced crap. I suppose Wall Street will love it if it increases margins. But what happens when young people get over the Beats fad and move on to something else?

post #211 of 243



Edited by Dick Applebaum - 5/9/14 at 4:30pm
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post #212 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
 

So Apple will now be known for pushing overpriced crap. I suppose Wall Street will love it if it increases margins. But what happens when young people get over the Beats fad and move on to something else?

 

Very often, doing startup is tough because you get distracted by infrastructure, partners, cash-flow and other resources issues. You may not be able to realize your full product potential. It is very common for startups to compromise for the first few product iterations. That's why they sought out early adopter customers. But over time, the startups are supposed to improve the products as they shift gradually to attack the mainstream, less forgiving customers.

With more resources from a big company, Beats should/will be able to do better. It seems that their later products are already pretty decent.


I am not sure if Beats' market is a fad. If their products are loved and say great for movies and gaming, then I don't think it's a fad like for example... fashion. There will be newer young people who love movies and gaming. They don't just die off suddenly unless there's an extinction level event.
 

 

At the same time, music streaming may be the next stage for music. That doesn't look like a fad either.

 

These are pretty basic questions. I suspect Apple business folks, engineering and management have already thought through them.

 

 

Note that these are still just rumors. Even if it's true, Apple may not be done evaluating them yet.


Edited by patsu - 5/9/14 at 4:33pm
post #213 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I'm using the Beats app to play the "sentence" while I'm surfing and reading various articles about the acquisition.

I've only used the app for about 15 minutes and the curating process is pretty damn good.

After my seven day free trial is up I likely will join for $10 a month for as long as I feel it's worth it.

No-brainer, really…

I can see it being incorporated into The iOS control center -- where you could be reading or doing something on your iPad and, at the same time, getting music for the moment.

 

I've no interest in signing up for a paid music service. Could you describe a bit more about your experience with it and why you feel the curation is better?

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post #214 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

 

I've no interest in signing up for a paid music service. Could you describe a bit more about your experience with it and why you feel the curation is better?

 

Heh heh, yeah, that's why I'm waiting for Apple to confirm the deal. Then I try it out to see how well their due diligence holds together.

post #215 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I'm using the Beats app to play the "sentence" while I'm surfing and reading various articles about the acquisition.


I've only used the app for about 15 minutes and the curating process is pretty damn good.


After my seven day free trial is up I likely will join for $10 a month for as long as I feel it's worth it.


No-brainer, really…


I can see it being incorporated into The iOS control center -- where you could be reading or doing something on your iPad and, at the same time, getting music for the moment.

I've no interest in signing up for a paid music service. Could you describe a bit more about your experience with it and why you feel the curation is better?

You can get a seven day free trial and see for yourself.

The last link that I posted suggested that Apple may not charge for the service just incorporate it into iTunes radio.
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post #216 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


You can get a seven day free trial and see for yourself.

The last link that I posted suggested that Apple may not charge for the service just incorporate it into iTunes radio.

 

I see.

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post #217 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You can get a seven day free trial and see for yourself.


The last link that I posted suggested that Apple may not charge for the service just incorporate it into iTunes radio.

I see.

It's hard to explain … Like the experience of riding a bicycle or ice-skating for the first time.
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post #218 of 243
Now there are rumours they will be made Apple executives!

At least having a doctor on board gives credence to the rumors of health-focused gadgets¡ 1hmm.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The last link that I posted suggested that Apple may not charge for the service just incorporate it into iTunes radio.

Why would this be limited to iTunes Radio? Why wouldn't it be able to make great playlist based on the music I own?

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post #219 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Now there are rumours they will be made Apple executives!

At least having a doctor on board gives credence to the rumors of health-focused gadgets¡ 1hmm.gif

You can't link to a 9-to-5 article from an AI forum -- they intentionally screwup the URL.
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post #220 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Now there are rumours they will be made Apple executives!

At least having a doctor on board gives credence to the rumors of health-focused gadgets¡ 1hmm.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The last link that I posted suggested that Apple may not charge for the service just incorporate it into iTunes radio.

Why would this be limited to iTunes Radio? Why wouldn't it be able to make great playlist based on the music I own?

No reason that I know! I see the concept being applied to Music, Videos, browsing, books, shopping ...
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post #221 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No reason that I know! I see the concept being applied to Music, Videos, browsing, books, shopping ...

Shopping is an interesting topic. Culture often dictates both musical tastes and shopping habits. Could Apple be looking at a bigger picture here?

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post #222 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No reason that I know! I see the concept being applied to Music, Videos, browsing, books, shopping ...

Shopping is an interesting topic. Culture often dictates both musical tastes and shopping habits. Could Apple be looking at a bigger picture here?

I posted the following, earlier -- you were busy ...

I'd add that shopping is often a social activity.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Interview of Iovine with Mossberg: http://live.wsj.com/video/producer-jimmy-iovine-at-d-dive-into-media/B135580F-2DC6-47CD-8BAD-924E07AB6C21.html#!B135580F-2DC6-47CD-8BAD-924E07AB6C21 (video, approx. 40 minutes)


1) He pooh-poohs Apple's included headphones. For that reason alone I'd like to see Apple do anything that will correct that.

2) This makes me think about the previous rumour of high-quality music being sold. Could Iovine be instrumental in getting that to happen?

3) Beats bought MOG earlier this year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOG_(online_music)

4) Iovine talks about how Spotify is limited. He makes a lot of good points.

5) That algorithm sounds like it's right up Apple's street.

6) I love what he had to said (starting about 28 minutes in) about how music companies will never get technology right and technology companies will never get curation right. I'm digging this idea of excellent curation and I do want to know what the next song is.

I don't mean to cherry-pick your quotes -- rather to curate them 1wink.gif


I think this could be a new buying service -- kinda' iTunes on steroids.

Think of it this way, it [Apple] knows (with your approval):
  • who you are
  • where you are
  • what you're doing
  • what kind of mood you're in
  • what stimulates your various moods
  • your credit card
  • potentially
    • How much money you have to spend
    • what you want to buy
    • what is important to you
    • who you want to buy it from
    • comparative products, sources and prices
    • what's in your shopping cart

We're talking' about a curation engine that understands you!

Of what value could that possibly be?


For those who didn't see it in the earlier thread:
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post #223 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Now there are rumours they will be made Apple executives!
At least having a doctor on board gives credence to the rumors of health-focused gadgets¡ 1hmm.gif
Why would this be limited to iTunes Radio? Why wouldn't it be able to make great playlist based on the music I own?

Dr Dre will be an Apple executive. Dear me. The more I hear about this the more I hate it. I hope Jony jumps ship while he still has some integrity left.

post #224 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Now there are rumours they will be made Apple executives!
At least having a doctor on board gives credence to the rumors of health-focused gadgets¡ 1hmm.gif
Why would this be limited to iTunes Radio? Why wouldn't it be able to make great playlist based on the music I own?

Just wait for them to confirm and flesh out the deal for us.

Interesting if they stay on as executives. If it's part time, then Apple will need someone powerful enough in HQ to run the show though. Will that be Tim or Eddy or someone else ?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
 

Dr Dre will be an Apple executive. Dear me. The more I hear about this the more I hate it. I hope Jony jumps ship while he still has some integrity left.


Well, Steve Jobs and other execs failed to get Ping off the ground. May be it's time to give someone else a chance. They are music insiders after all.
 

I love the uncharacteristic move so far. Makes the company more unpredictable and adventurous after a long march. Eager to see the final deal either way.


Edited by patsu - 5/9/14 at 5:24pm
post #225 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Now there are rumours they will be made Apple executives!

At least having a doctor on board gives credence to the rumors of health-focused gadgets¡ 1hmm.gif

Why would this be limited to iTunes Radio? Why wouldn't it be able to make great playlist based on the music I own?
Just wait for them to confirm and flesh out the deal for us.


Interesting if they stay on as executives. If it's part time, then Apple will need someone powerful enough in HQ to run the show though. Will that be Tim or Eddy or someone else ?

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

 
Dr Dre will be an Apple executive. Dear me. The more I hear about this the more I hate it. I hope Jony jumps ship while he still has some integrity left.

I love the uncharacteristic move so far. Makes the company more unpredictable and adventurous after a long march. Eager to see the final deal either way.

It may be like herding cats … But there's got to be some way for a company like Apple to include the perspective of creatives in their decision-making process.

No one has all the answers -- not many understand or know all the questions!
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post #226 of 243
Yeah, but will it adjust my furnace or detect smoke?
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post #227 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I've only used the app for about 15 minutes and the curating process is pretty damn good.

 

Color me skeptical… not because i don't believe it's good, just because don't think ANY system, human or AI, can play to my eclectic tastes. I don't imagine I'm alone, either.

 

A look back through recently played tracks on my device brings up Aretha Franklin, Green Day, One Republic, Michael Bublé, Pharrell, Bruno Mars, BB King, Pablo Cruise, Maurizio Pollini playing Beethoven, The Crystal Method and Pete Seeger. I don't need a system that tries (unsuccessfully) to guess what I like, I need something that listens to the room and hears me call out what I want next!

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post #228 of 243
Apple spends 3.2 billion to get a company making 10% of that sum in net profit

That's way more than they earn in their cash and also cheaper than any bond they have issued.

They get Jimmy Iovine, Dre, and the streaming service to kick start an iTunes streaming service on top if that.

What's not to like?
post #229 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkanaga View Post

Apple spends 3.2 billion to get a company making 10% of that sum in net profit

That's way more than they earn in their cash and also cheaper than any bond they have issued.

They get Jimmy Iovine, Dre, and the streaming service to kick start an iTunes streaming service on top if that.

What's not to like?

Until we better understand what is involved in their agreement (assuming there is an agreement), $3.2 billion is a very large expenditure which seems difficult to justify at this point. Especially because it goes against the grain of known Apple acquisitions (technology versus style, which until now Apple has provided). The optics of the deal are that Apple is simply buying customers...something companies like GE are known for, not Apple.

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post #230 of 243
I can't help thinking it actually is about the headphones. I don't think the iWatch exists, it was just a red herring designed to make Samsung and others race to release a useless bit of hardware. If Healthbook is true, and we're going to see hardware that monitors heart rate etc, then headphones are perfect for adding sensors. People already wear them and especially when excercising. Smart headphones are Apple's secret product I think.
post #231 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton View Post

I can't help thinking it actually is about the headphones. I don't think the iWatch exists, it was just a red herring designed to make Samsung and others race to release a useless bit of hardware. If Healthbook is true, and we're going to see hardware that monitors heart rate etc, then headphones are perfect for adding sensors. People already wear them and especially when excercising. Smart headphones are Apple's secret product I think.

 

  The reason Beats' headphones; division can't mean much here is that, if they specifically sell that out to someone, all they have of value (and it's a lot) is the brand recognition and fan base.  No technology, no patents of any significance, no asset that gives the company a leg into the next big thing, which could happen if they buy something.  If there's anything else they turn out to have in there of value in marketing, distribution etc, Apple doesn't need it.   They don't need Beats, who have their headphones made in Asian factories same as Apple, to make their iWatch.  

post #232 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Until we better understand what is involved in their agreement (assuming there is an agreement), $3.2 billion is a very large expenditure which seems difficult to justify at this point. Especially because it goes against the grain of known Apple acquisitions (technology versus style, which until now Apple has provided). The optics of the deal are that Apple is simply buying customers...something companies like GE are known for, not Apple.

It's an unprecedented amount for Apple to spend on an acquisition (although they do seem to spend a lot on component investments) but if the info @rkanaga states is accurate then $3.2 billion would mean it's a good buy for Apple.

PS: Honestly, as a personal choice, if there has to be a first billionaire of hip hop I would rather it be Dre than Jay-Z or Kanye West. I think My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is they best album of the 21st century but I can't stand Kanye as a person.

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post #233 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Now there are rumours they will be made Apple executives!

 

I'm reading it as throwing a little ice water on the hoopla of their positions:   "The report does not seem to indicate that the two men will be full-time employees. Rather, it seems possible that the pair will commute and take meetings as needed. In the modern world of technology, working remotely is not a far-fetched possibility."

 

Realistically, it's possible that the positions aren't based on any great expectations Apple has for them there, just that it's part of the package of being bought.

 

 At least for some.

 

 Well, half.

post #234 of 243

So its selling-point is to replicate mix tapes.

 

Surely, the whole fun of mix tapes was in the making of them. Why would you want to leave that to a computer? And how is that any different to making a custom playlist now, which you can guarantee is going to have your favourite music, as opposed to a stranger's mix tape, which is likely to be hit and miss?

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post #235 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post
 

Hmmm… in spite of my predilection to make a joke about overpriced form-over-function products at this point, I can't see any upside for Apple in this case. I've tried many products over the years, and by far the best bud-type solution is Apple's own. Beats, as the name suggests, are typical of modern base-heavy tuning that ruins the sound quality of anything other than hip-hop (and that too, but then it's a "good thing"). Apple has enough overpriced crap in it's lineup, it doesn't need this.

Great comment.

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post #236 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post
 

Keep Calm and Allow Time for the Rumors to Die Down. Let us know if you're in real distress and we'll bring the smelling salts! ;)

I'm trying to keep calm, but honestly speaking, this is the most distressing Apple rumor that I have ever read in my entire life.

 

I'm not sure what I'd do. I would obviously not switch to another platform like Android or anything like that. I guess that I have enough Apple devices that I've acquired throughout the years to last me until I drop dead, so I should be set.

Sometimes, I think what it would be like to get rid of all my electronic gadgets except hifi. No iPhone, no iPad, no iMac, no tv. Just books, piano and music. It appeals to me.

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post #237 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post


I dug around a bit. The earlier headphones may be crappy but the newer ones seem pretty good. So that's good to know.

 

Everything I've read indicates their headphones are still bass-heavy, which might be fine for hip-hop, but bad for rock, classical, etc.

In other words, they are good if you like listening to noise, but bad if you like listening to music.

 

Got it.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #238 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I've only used the app for about 15 minutes and the curating process is pretty damn good.

 

Color me skeptical… not because i don't believe it's good, just because don't think ANY system, human or AI, can play to my eclectic tastes. I don't imagine I'm alone, either.

 

A look back through recently played tracks on my device brings up Aretha Franklin, Green Day, One Republic, Michael Bublé, Pharrell, Bruno Mars, BB King, Pablo Cruise, Maurizio Pollini playing Beethoven, The Crystal Method and Pete Seeger. I don't need a system that tries (unsuccessfully) to guess what I like, I need something that listens to the room and hears me call out what I want next!

Bingo! Nor do I want a system to play things based on my 'mood.' I want to be surprised and delighted by music that I love. Like you, I have eclectic tastes, that I bet no curation system would cater to, or even begin to. Music I love, I give five stars to and set to shuffle on a playlist. No curation is going to beat that.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #239 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton View Post

I can't help thinking it actually is about the headphones. I don't think the iWatch exists, it was just a red herring designed to make Samsung and others race to release a useless bit of hardware. If Healthbook is true, and we're going to see hardware that monitors heart rate etc, then headphones are perfect for adding sensors. People already wear them and especially when excercising. Smart headphones are Apple's secret product I think.

I've written a few posts suggesting the same thing.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #240 of 243

deal okay if beats kept as separate brand - just not sure if apple can allow its sub-brand to 'not pay' 30% itunes tax - brings up anti-trust issue?!

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