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Apple wants Beats Music, but likely to keep Beats hardware alive after deal - report - Page 4

post #121 of 168
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Originally Posted by tryd View Post
 
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

its a premium brand.

 

they have 70% of the consumer premium/high end headphone business.

No, it is not a premium brand. It is a cheap brand that gets away with selling low quality headphones at premium prices. Just the opposite of what Apple is all about. A premium brand in this area would be Sennheiser, AKG, Stax, Beyer, B&W etc.... I prefer Stax (I mainly use the SR-009 - probably the best headphones in the world), but I also listen to Sennheiser (HD800 for their exeptional sound stage) and have a set of AKG 701 I use occasionally. On the move I usually use Sennheisers, but also have a set of Bose (for their exceptionally good noise reduction system). Qualitywise Beats are really way, way, way down the ladder. Market share does not make it a premium brand.

Oh, enough with this silly headphone snobbery. It would be just tiresome if it weren't so laughably off.

 

With lossy AAC/MP3 files, having a great versus a mediocre headphone just gets you.... mediocre sound, regardless of what you think or say. (As to the bass-heavy critique -- that others have brought up -- just change the equalizer preset and stop the whining).

post #122 of 168
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Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

It's a terrible idea, when Jony Ive could just continue making things for the Apple brand, which is much more highly regarded than any Beats brand.

Not comprehending this means you probably have no idea what it is to be a creative person.  Why do you think members of the Stones, U2, etc.. go off and do side musical projects?  It's fun to have a place to express yourself without the stress and legacy that comes with creating for the main group.  I bet Jony and his team will improve the existing headphones, make an inexpensive Beats phone that runs iOS, and design a bunch of other cool stuff.  Think of it as Apple's "street label", younger and more rebellious.

post #123 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

See how that works?


Happy, now?

No, actually you did nothing to sway my opinion, I'm familiar with those arguments, people have been making them for years, they've never been true before and there's no reason to believe that's going to change.

It stems from a basic misunderstanding of the purpose of iTunes as it relates to Apple, why it exists and what it means to the company. iTunes is an anomaly, it's like a "loss leader" but it makes money (quite a lot), and for some reason people assume that makes it a business that Apple will/does/should treat as a separate going concern regardless what happens to Apple's hardware business. What I mean is that people think that iTunes would remain around long after Apple stopped making hardware, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Yes, iTunes (the entire system) is a benefit to Apple customers, yes it's a reason people are willing to pay *more* for Apple products, yes it adds value to Apple's products, but no, it isn't the main reason Apple exists, and no it wouldn't continue as a business if there were no hardware for it to support, which is what it is, a support division that ends up making them money.

The business model of Apple's is exactly the opposite to that of Amazon's, which sells hardware (cheaply) through which it can sell its services (same with Google) which is where it makes all its money. Putting $3B into an ancillary service offering seems to me to be exactly backwards to Apple's business model, where it would make sense to do it if you were Amazon or Google, but not Apple, which is why people here (in this thread and elsewhere) believe there's more to this acquisition than an overpriced upgrade to what they already possess in their portfolio of offerings (ignoring the Beats headphones business).

Do I think it might attract more people to buy Apple products, yes, I think that's a safe assumption. Do I think it's possible to realise enough of those additional sales to warrant and justify this $3B investment? Absolutely not.

Rather than respond point by point -- I'll try to convince you on what Apple's goal is, IMO.

Within the next 5 years, a whole new breed of customers will enter the marketplace -- and the marketplace will be different than it is today:
  • instant gratification - buy what you want, how you want, where you want, when you want
  • automatic comparison shop for for the best value *
  • cashless/cardless transactions
  • continuous connectivity facilitated by ubiquitous, fast, inexpensive data connections
  • secure, opt-in tracking of location, preferences, purchases, etc.
  • increasing gain in the importance of services

* The key word here is value

I expect that the differences in hardware will be less important than what you can do with that hardware -- that means services.

Now, Apple has a growing iTunes iCloud services offering. I expect that they will continue to add stuff to those services -- maybe:
  • a generic subscription service -- where you can subscribe/unsubscribe to, say, Photoshop on an as-need basis
  • allow those 400-800 Million iTunes credit cards to buy things other than digital data -- a car, a meal ...
  • provide curated purchasing services, traveling services, marketing services ...

I can remember the days when there was no Internet, no cell phones, no personal computers without floppy disks -- no personal computers ...

Today we have devices with us at all times that are [mostly] capable of connecting us to the world at large -- on demand and at our option! The hardware is pretty-much already there;  the software is getting there; the services are lagging ...

For example: Today's iPad, iOS and Apps are capable of delivering on-demand TV, music and movies to everyone -- at home, at play -- wherever, whenever ...

But what Steve hasn't, yet, cracked is a way to provide the connection and delivery of those services to tha customer -- at a price that provides value for the service.

Apple could leverage the existing carriers, cablecos, content providers ...

Or, Tim (chosen by Steve) could just say screw that -- we're not only going to sell you the hardware, but the connections and services that deliver the value at a good price **

I think the Best acquisition is the next big step to make that happen -- and it will further demonstrate that Apple is willing to pay to get what it wants.


** value at a good price is the definition of a bargain!


Who better than Apple to make this happen?
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post #124 of 168

AAC files are actually quite good. A lot of people hve problems distinguishing high quality AAC from ALAC or FLAC. And bad sounding headphones don't start sounding good just because you change the equalizer settings.

But I just don't think Apple is buying Beats for the headphones.

post #125 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post
 

Not comprehending this means you probably have no idea what it is to be a creative person.  Why do you think members of the Stones, U2, etc.. go off and do side musical projects?  It's fun to have a place to express yourself without the stress and legacy that comes with creating for the main group.  I bet Jony and his team will improve the existing headphones, make an inexpensive Beats phone that runs iOS, and design a bunch of other cool stuff.  Think of it as Apple's "street label", younger and more rebellious.

 

I'm not interested in any Apple "side projects". Apple is a corporation, not a band.

 

I also think that anybody who thinks that Apple needs to be more cool is simply buying into Samsung's propaganda.

post #126 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Rather than respond point by point -- I'll try to convince you on what Apple's goal is, IMO.

Within the next 5 years, a whole new breed of customers will enter the marketplace -- and the marketplace will be different than it is today:
  • instant gratification - buy what you want, how you want, where you want, when you want
  • automatic comparison shop for for the best value *
  • cashless/cardless transactions
  • continuous connectivity facilitated by ubiquitous, fast, inexpensive data connections
  • secure, opt-in tracking of location, preferences, purchases, etc.
  • increasing gain in the importance of services

* The key word here is value

I expect that the differences in hardware will be less important than what you can do with that hardware -- that means services.

Now, Apple has a growing iTunes iCloud services offering. I expect that they will continue to add stuff to those services -- maybe:
  • a generic subscription service -- where you can subscribe/unsubscribe to, say, Photoshop on an as-need basis
  • allow those 400-800 Million iTunes credit cards to buy things other than digital data -- a car, a meal ...
  • provide curated purchasing services, traveling services, marketing services ...

I can remember the days when there was no Internet, no cell phones, no personal computers without floppy disks -- no personal computers ...

Today we have devices with us at all times that are [mostly] capable of connecting us to the world at large -- on demand and at our option! The hardware is pretty-much already there;  the software is getting there; the services are lagging ...

For example: Today's iPad, iOS and Apps are capable of delivering on-demand TV, music and movies to everyone -- at home, at play -- wherever, whenever ...

But what Steve hasn't, yet, cracked is a way to provide the connection and delivery of those services to tha customer -- at a price that provides value for the service.

Apple could leverage the existing carriers, cablecos, content providers ...

Or, Tim (chosen by Steve) could just say screw that -- we're not only going to sell you the hardware, but the connections and services that deliver the value at a good price **

I think the Best acquisition is the next big step to make that happen -- and it will further demonstrate that Apple is willing to pay to get what it wants.


** value at a good price is the definition of a bargain!


Who better than Apple to make this happen?

Seriously? Not only is most of that there already - although other companies do it better for now - buying a headphone company isn't going to help.
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post #127 of 168
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Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Seriously? Not only is most of that there already - although other companies do it better for now - buying a headphone company isn't going to help.

It's not available from one company.   The consumer by and large isn't into a la carte.   Apple is poised to take many of these elements and package them nicely together at profit. 

 

Buying Beats gets them infrastructure (Beats Music, Beats Electronics) and personnel (Young, Iovine and more)  

 

And most importantly it's not a loss leader.  Beats makes money. 

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post #128 of 168
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Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Aren't you in NY? That's quite a bit aways from the Mason-Dixon line. lol.gif

Yes, I'm a Yankee. 

Oops ... Rum And Coca Cola just came up on my iBeats app 1biggrin.gif

... Workin' for the Yankee dollah
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post #129 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post
 

Not comprehending this means you probably have no idea what it is to be a creative person.  Why do you think members of the Stones, U2, etc.. go off and do side musical projects?  It's fun to have a place to express yourself without the stress and legacy that comes with creating for the main group.  I bet Jony and his team will improve the existing headphones, make an inexpensive Beats phone that runs iOS, and design a bunch of other cool stuff.  Think of it as Apple's "street label", younger and more rebellious.

 

No need to take umbrage at his remarks, and let's also not forget about having a well defined and articulated business model and sticking to it. Apple is extremely good at staying focussed and being consistent in all their decisions, designing headphones for a 3rd party brand is not in Apple's future.

 

To put the Apple design team on an aftermarket accessories product runs counter to good business practice. Firstly, headphones are for all devices. How will that support the Apple brand and sell more Apple hardware (the accessories we're talking about here are a pittance to Apple's revenue)? In other words, how is that a good use of valuable resource to design products that won't even support the company's main products?

 

Apple stays out of the accessories market because, well, there are enough manufacturers who offer lots of great options for their products. Apple offers basic stuff and others do great aftermarket stuff. For Apple to start to put a focus on aftermarket accessories doesn't make any sense, regardless how it will purportedly promote the creative process for Apple designers. It would be a distraction, a defocusing from what Apple is all about.

 

I really can't imagine there's going to be a sub-brand, or "street label," that is Apple but for a different market segment. That smacks more of gimmick or dilution of brand at best, and protecting the world's most valuable brand at this point is what it's all about.

post #130 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

It's not available from one company.   The consumer by and large isn't into a la carte.   Apple is poised to take many of these elements and package them nicely together at profit. 

Buying Beats gets them infrastructure (Beats Music, Beats Electronics) and personnel (Young, Iovine and more)  

And most importantly it's not a loss leader.  Beats makes money. 

Buying beats gets them absolutely nothing like the list of items dick mentioned. Buying square would make more sense. What they get here is:

1) a music streaming service ( or more likely an algorithm) which they could just as easily licence.
2) a headphone producing company which might be making money but can't be brought in under apples brand nor can it be made to produce exclusively Apple products. Apple never buys like that.
3) they can hire the founders for a lot less than billions.

There is nothing here that Apple couldn't do or licence differently. If you are saying that Apple needs to buy companies willy nilly like google, hoping something sticks, well that's quite a change of attitude for AI.

Funny thing is I think they should be more acquisitive. Square. Yelp maybe. Some better voice technology.

Big red headphones? Can't see it.
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post #131 of 168
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


IMO this is on Eddy Cue. He's been running iTunes since forever. Obviously the buck stops with Cook but Cue is the DRI (directly responsible individual) in Apple speak.

Agree. But it was Cue who met with Iovine and Dre in March '13 so it isn't a leap to say Cue also got the Beats ball rolling. I also give credit to Cook because this could be a disruptive deal. 

post #132 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post
 

 

No need to take umbrage at his remarks, and let's also not forget about having a well defined and articulated business model and sticking to it. Apple is extremely good at staying focussed and being consistent in all their decisions, designing headphones for a 3rd party brand is not in Apple's future.

 

To put the Apple design team on an aftermarket accessories product runs counter to good business practice. Firstly, headphones are for all devices. How will that support the Apple brand and sell more Apple hardware (the accessories we're talking about here are a pittance to Apple's revenue)? In other words, how is that a good use of valuable resource to design products that won't even support the company's main products?

 

Apple stays out of the accessories market because, well, there are enough manufacturers who offer lots of great options for their products. Apple offers basic stuff and others do great aftermarket stuff. For Apple to start to put a focus on aftermarket accessories doesn't make any sense, regardless how it will purportedly promote the creative process for Apple designers. It would be a distraction, a defocusing from what Apple is all about.

 

I really can't imagine there's going to be a sub-brand, or "street label," that is Apple but for a different market segment. That smacks more of gimmick or dilution of brand at best, and protecting the world's most valuable brand at this point is what it's all about.

 

All companies are in constant motion.   There was once a time where many of us opined on these very boards about how Apple should make a phone only to have some respond "Nokia owns this market Apple doesn't stand a chance".   Apple is very particular about their branding but they are well versed in wholly owned subsidiary and they have a few such as Filemaker, Braeburn Capital and Anobit. I see Beats Electronics as simply being another subsidiary with links into the Apple ecosystem. 

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post #133 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by divinchi24 View Post

The hardware is the main objective, it comes with a major sponsorship of athletes from baseball players to basketball players and many UFC fighters who wear these products in the public eye and within their events. No one wears apple headphones coming down for a fight in the UFC

BS. Apple doesn't pay people to use their products. People use the products because they are good products.

If a company has to pay people, the product is shit.

post #134 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Rather than respond point by point -- I'll try to convince you on what Apple's goal is, IMO.

Within the next 5 years, a whole new breed of customers will enter the marketplace -- and the marketplace will be different than it is today:
  • instant gratification - buy what you want, how you want, where you want, when you want
  • automatic comparison shop for for the best value *
  • cashless/cardless transactions
  • continuous connectivity facilitated by ubiquitous, fast, inexpensive data connections
  • secure, opt-in tracking of location, preferences, purchases, etc.
  • increasing gain in the importance of services

* The key word here is value

I expect that the differences in hardware will be less important than what you can do with that hardware -- that means services.

Now, Apple has a growing iTunes iCloud services offering. I expect that they will continue to add stuff to those services -- maybe:
  • a generic subscription service -- where you can subscribe/unsubscribe to, say, Photoshop on an as-need basis
  • allow those 400-800 Million iTunes credit cards to buy things other than digital data -- a car, a meal ...
  • provide curated purchasing services, traveling services, marketing services ...

I can remember the days when there was no Internet, no cell phones, no personal computers without floppy disks -- no personal computers ...

Today we have devices with us at all times that are [mostly] capable of connecting us to the world at large -- on demand and at our option! The hardware is pretty-much already there;  the software is getting there; the services are lagging ...

For example: Today's iPad, iOS and Apps are capable of delivering on-demand TV, music and movies to everyone -- at home, at play -- wherever, whenever ...

But what Steve hasn't, yet, cracked is a way to provide the connection and delivery of those services to tha customer -- at a price that provides value for the service.

Apple could leverage the existing carriers, cablecos, content providers ...

Or, Tim (chosen by Steve) could just say screw that -- we're not only going to sell you the hardware, but the connections and services that deliver the value at a good price **

I think the Best acquisition is the next big step to make that happen -- and it will further demonstrate that Apple is willing to pay to get what it wants.


** value at a good price is the definition of a bargain!


Who better than Apple to make this happen?

Seriously? Not only is most of that there already - although other companies do it better for now - buying a headphone company isn't going to help.

If that's true, why did my granddaughter recently need to open a checking account, get a debit card, and a credit card ... just so she can buy gas? Meals?

Last Monday was Ditch Day for the High School Seniors -- Most decided to go to Santa Cruz ... She and some classmates made reservations at a Holiday Inn -- on the phone giving her Debit card.

When they went to check in, the clerk would not accept the card because it didn't have her picture on it. They weren't carrying enough cash (in a resort town during spring break), and the ATM only allows $200 for each 24 hr period. She called her mother who called HI to put it on her credit card -- they wouldn't accept the info over the phone. HI emailed her a form which she had to print, fill in, camera-capture and email it back to them -- took about 2 hours, but they finally charged it to her Discover card ... twice ???

I know that's anecdotal, but what a shitty experience for several people, over several days -- just to buy a simple service.

Apple has the potential to make buying painless!
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post #135 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

If that's true, why did my granddaughter recently need to open a checking account, get a debit card, and a credit card ... just so she can buy gas? Meals?

Last Monday was Ditch Day for the High School Seniors -- Most decided to go to Santa Cruz ... She and some classmates made reservations at a Holiday Inn -- on the phone giving her Debit card.

When they went to check in, the clerk would not accept the card because it didn't have her picture on it. They weren't carrying enough cash (in a resort town during spring break), and the ATM only allows $200 for each 24 hr period. She called her mother who called HI to put it on her credit card -- they wouldn't accept the info over the phone. HI emailed her a form which she had to print, fill in, camera-capture and email it back to them -- took about 2 hours, but they finally charged it to her Discover card ... twice ???

I know that's anecdotal, but what a shitty experience for several people, over several days -- just to buy a simple service.

Apple has the potential to make buying painless!

And when they buy Square ( assuming they can't do this in house which they can - iTunes payments are apples most robust services) then I would agree with you.

You've taken an experience which Apple could do better than the existing vendors and credit card companies and posted it on a thread about the buying of a headphone company. For $3B.

I am not opposed to acquisitions. You can't make up fantasy stuff about any particular acquisitions. Buying a headphone company wouldn't help you granddaughter.
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post #136 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

BS. Apple doesn't pay people to use their products. People use the products because they are good products.
If a company has to pay people, the product is shit.


Are you serious? I know you have to be kidding and I will take it that you have not done your research well my friend. Any product from apple that is used in any movie, tv show, and any star that is shown on the red carpet or televised event that is shown with an apple product is paid by apple. Any apple give away contest that is done on many news shows such pix 11 or fox 5 is paid for by apple and not the news station themselves.

So apple does indeed pay people to use their product my friend.
post #137 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

LOL. ..

I have ad blocker and never see them, not sure everyone doesn't use it!

I sometimes see the ads on my iPad or iPhone. AppleInsider is quite literally suckling at Google's tit. It's no wonder they serve up so much Android/Samsung love. 1wink.gif

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post #138 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

It's not available from one company.   The consumer by and large isn't into a la carte.   Apple is poised to take many of these elements and package them nicely together at profit. 

Buying Beats gets them infrastructure (Beats Music, Beats Electronics) and personnel (Young, Iovine and more)  

And most importantly it's not a loss leader.  Beats makes money. 

Buying beats gets them absolutely nothing like the list of items dick mentioned. Buying square would make more sense. What they get here is:

1) a music streaming service ( or more likely an algorithm) which they could just as easily licence.
2) a headphone producing company which might be making money but can't be brought in under apples brand nor can it be made to produce exclusively Apple products. Apple never buys like that.
3) they can hire the founders for a lot less than billions.

There is nothing here that Apple couldn't do or licence differently. If you are saying that Apple needs to buy companies willy nilly like google, hoping something sticks, well that's quite a change of attitude for AI.

Funny thing is I think they should be more acquisitive. Square. Yelp maybe. Some better voice technology.

Big red headphones? Can't see it.

It's not just an algorithm, dammit! Its people who live and breathe music determining which song to play after the song that is playing. Its like having a stable of trained music experts deciding if you are listening to this artist's version of song A -- then the the next song should be that artists version of song B. It's based on your preferences -- and where you are, what you're doing, who you're with and your mood at that moment *

Rather than delivering Beer Barrel Polka followed by Beloved Wife or Gloomy Sunday, you get something chosen algorithmically from curated playlists which are created by music experts who know that B comes after A for this particular set of conditions.

* AFAIK, no other service even attempts to do that!


This is what they claim they can do, please read the quote carefully and watch the short video:
Quote:
What if you could always have the perfect music for each moment, effortlessly ... Drives would be shorter ... Kisses deeper ... Inspiration would flow ... Memories would flood ... You'd fall in love -- every night ... And life would be infused with magic.

If you want to conjure that power for people ... You'd first have to respect it ... Be in awe of it ... And realize music is much more than just digital files ... It breathes and bleeds and feels ... And to do that, you'll need more inside your skull than a circuit board ... Because code can't hear the Bowie in a band's influences ... it doesn't know why The Stones seque perfectly into Aretha Franklin ... And if you're one perfect track away from getting some satisfaction ... You'd want more than software to deliver it ... You'd want brains and souls ... You'd want people driven by a passion for music ... Who know the only thing as important as the song you're hearing now -- is the song that comes next.

So, that's what we've done ... We've created an elegant, fun solution that integrates the best technology with friendly, trustworthy humanity ... That understands music as emotion and joy ... Culture and life.

This is a completely new way to experience music ... And the next step in the evolution that's taken us from 45s to CDs to streaming ... But the most important thing about it is that you'll be blown away by what happens when you hit play ... The right music ...Like magic!



If they can deliver that to an acceptable degree -- then Beats is a bargain, IMO.

Seriously, guys -- I can't learn-ya' the information ... It should be required reading/viewing for anyone posting to this thread intending to badmouth the process.

They claim they can do it -- why not give them the courtesy of your attention and the chance to prove it!
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 5/12/14 at 12:44pm
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post #139 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's not just an algorithm, dammit! Its people who live and breathe music determining which song to play after the song that is playing. Its like having a stable of trained music experts deciding if you are listening to this artist's version of song A -- then the the next song should be that artists version of song B. It's based on your preferences -- and where you are, what you're doing, who you're with and your mood at that moment *

Rather than delivering Beer Barrel Polka followed by Beloved Wife or Gloomy Sunday, you get something chosen algorithmically from curated playlists which are created by music experts who know that B comes after A for this particular set of conditions.

* AFAIK, no other service even attempts to do that!

 

Wedding DJ's attempt to do this.  Some are better then others, but they all aim for that goal.  Beats music subscription service is certainly less expensive and more portable then wedding DJ's though.

 

P.S.  I like the use of the Nine Inch Nails music in the video.  Ghosts is a great set.  As they're pitching a music service which emphasises track selection, it's appropriate that they've selected a great audio track to play during their advertisement.  :) 


Edited by DroidFTW - 5/12/14 at 12:51pm
post #140 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's not just an algorithm, dammit! Its people who live and breathe music determining which song to play after the song that is playing. Its like having a stable of trained music experts deciding if you are listening to this artist's version of song A -- then the the next song should be that artists version of song B. It's based on your preferences -- and where you are, what you're doing, who you're with and your mood at that moment *

Rather than delivering Beer Barrel Polka followed by Beloved Wife or Gloomy Sunday, you get something chosen algorithmically from curated playlists which are created by music experts who know that B comes after A for this particular set of conditions.

* AFAIK, no other service even attempts to do that!


This is what they claim they can do, please read the quote carefully and watch the short video:\

If they can deliver that to an acceptable degree -- then Beats is a bargain, IMO.

Seriously, guys -- I can't learn-ya' the information ... It should be required reading/viewing for posting to this thread, badmouthing the process.

They claim they can do it -- why not give them the courtesy of your attention and the chance to prove it!

Have we moved on from the bit where your granddaughter couldn't buy with her debit card and that was a good reason to buy beats? Ok. I'll take it you lost that argument.

So now you are taking beats press release about their human curated music recommendation algorithm, which it definitely is, seriously. And that's worth $3B? Didn't they buy it last year for a tiny fraction of that cost?

I doubt it. I'm not buying that dr Dre and jimmy Iovine are personally tweaking every possible song recommendation either, there's at best an army of underpaid workers in India, at worst it's a scam. Just think how much human input you would need to do this.
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post #141 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Buying beats gets them absolutely nothing like the list of items dick mentioned. Buying square would make more sense. What they get here is:

1) a music streaming service ( or more likely an algorithm) which they could just as easily licence.
2) a headphone producing company which might be making money but can't be brought in under apples brand nor can it be made to produce exclusively Apple products. Apple never buys like that.
3) they can hire the founders for a lot less than billions.

There is nothing here that Apple couldn't do or licence differently. If you are saying that Apple needs to buy companies willy nilly like google, hoping something sticks, well that's quite a change of attitude for AI.

Funny thing is I think they should be more acquisitive. Square. Yelp maybe. Some better voice technology.

Big red headphones? Can't see it.

 

I tend to think that Apple is slowly building up their payment processing.  Passbook seems to be an early effort into developing an easy UI.  Now you look and see Touch ID starting to spread throughout the line iBeacon support.  The elements are coming together but consumers have been rocked lately with the Target breach and many other small ones.   Consumers are gunshy about newfangled tech until it's proven to be safe. 

 

I see the headphone as being an untapped area for better technology.  In line mic/controls was a start but I think the Parrot Zik was a step in the right direction with its touch based shell that understands gestures.  I think microphones need to improve as well as the ability to mix in external sound (when you're walking down the street and still want some of the environment to leak in) I know some apps do it but what if said feature was baked in the hardware? 

 

Apple has sought to improve voice tech. They just acquired Novauris so improvements seem to be coming.  

 

I see Audio and Video becoming very important for Apple.  Video should take a leap forward with the next Apple TV.   Audio Streaming is going to be very important.  I tell you I use the hell out of iTunes Radio through my Apple TV.  I'd like it even more if it was Beats Music.  

 

Car Play is coming and Beats Radio is already supported.   There are some big changes coming and Apple should not be ceding any ground to the Spotify of the world. 

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post #142 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

IMO this is on Eddy Cue. He's been running iTunes since forever. Obviously the buck stops with Cook but Cue is the DRI (directly responsible individual) in Apple speak.
Agree. But it was Cue who met with Iovine and Dre in March '13 so it isn't a leap to say Cue also got the Beats ball rolling. I also give credit to Cook because this could be a disruptive deal. 

"got the Beats ball rolling "... I like that -- kinda' rolls off the tongue ...


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post #143 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's not just an algorithm, dammit! Its people who live and breathe music determining which song to play after the song that is playing. Its like having a stable of trained music experts deciding if you are listening to this artist's version of song A -- then the the next song should be that artists version of song B. It's based on your preferences -- and where you are, what you're doing, who you're with and your mood at that moment *

Rather than delivering Beer Barrel Polka followed by Beloved Wife or Gloomy Sunday, you get something chosen algorithmically from curated playlists which are created by music experts who know that B comes after A for this particular set of conditions.

* AFAIK, no other service even attempts to do that!


This is what they claim they can do, please read the quote carefully and watch the short video:\

If they can deliver that to an acceptable degree -- then Beats is a bargain, IMO.

Seriously, guys -- I can't learn-ya' the information ... It should be required reading/viewing for posting to this thread, badmouthing the process.

They claim they can do it -- why not give them the courtesy of your attention and the chance to prove it!

Have we moved on from the bit where your granddaughter couldn't buy with her debit card and that was a good reason to buy beats? Ok. I'll take it you lost that argument.

So now you are taking beats press release about their human curated music recommendation algorithm, which it definitely is, seriously. And that's worth $3B? Didn't they buy it last year for a tiny fraction of that cost?

I doubt it. I'm not buying that dr Dre and jimmy Iovine are personally tweaking every possible song recommendation either, there's at best an army of underpaid workers in India, at worst it's a scam. Just think how much human input you would need to do this.

Sorry to bore you with personal experiences that support the point I'm trying to make ... Also, that I choose to look for the best in people and give them the courtesy of listening to their claims, and giving them the chance to prove themselves.

To my knowledge, Iovine never claimed he or Dre were personally tweaking every possible song recommendation -- but I do believe both have the chops to select and train experts to do this. (I watched Iovine mentor on American Idol for 2 seasons -- he knows music, people and how to bring out the best in them.
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post #144 of 168
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

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post #145 of 168
@pazuzu. Dre was worth 800M before this deal. I hardly think he is spending his " cha ching" as you put it , from this deal on Ton Brady's mansion. Easy now...
post #146 of 168
It'd be interesting to see if Apple will improve the sound quality of Beats headphones as well.
post #147 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs2305 View Post

@pazuzu. Dre was worth 800M before this deal. I hardly think he is spending his " cha ching" as you put it , from this deal on Ton Brady's mansion. Easy now...

http://pagesix.com/2014/05/11/dr-dre-closes-on-tom-bradys-50m-mansion/
 
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post #148 of 168

It says, "Dre put an offer on the mansion as soon as it came on the market…"

So when did it come on the market? It seems unlikely that it came out on the market since this story broke a few days ago.

Also, as has already been points out to you, Dre is already rich (not simply wealthy) so buying this mansion is not dependent on any billion dollar buyout of Beats.

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post #149 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post



They look like they could be related.
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post #150 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

They look like they could be related.

I thought Cook and the current-day Iovine look more closely related.

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post #151 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It say, "Dre put an offer on the mansion as soon as it came on the market…"

So when did it come on the market? It seems unlikely that it came out on the market since this story broke a few days ago.

Also, as has already been points out to you, Dre is already rich (not simply wealthy) so buying this mansion is not dependent on any billion dollar buyout of Beats.

I think you have it backwards. He's wealthy, not simply rich.
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post #152 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I think you have it backwards. He's wealthy, not simply rich.

Is that from a Chris Rock routine?

From my PoV I mean he's rich. I'm wealthy, but I am not by means what I consider to be rich. I can't reasonably buy a Learjet or a house in the 10s of millions. I don't have a fleet of people just working at my home every single day. That's what I consider rich.

If you have a better way of defining it I'm open to it.


edit: Not sure if that's your reasoning but that's what came to mind when you mentioned it.



I see Scrooge McDuck and Smaug money as being rich and being able to buy an $100k car as merely being wealthy. But I'lll gladly change these terms for clarity sake if I"m the odd man out.


edit 2: I found this. I will have to change my definitions and I don't fall into either of them. I guess well off is the category I would be in.

Edited by SolipsismX - 5/12/14 at 5:55pm

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post #153 of 168
Solip- never saw a response- which you are great at normally. Did you read my previous post about it not being simply 5.3 years return even doubling the high-end profits?

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post #154 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Is that from a Chris Rock routine?

edit 2: I found this. I will have to change my definitions and I don't fall into either of them. I guess well off is the category I would be in.

That skit did come to mind. Rich has always seemed to be easily attainable. How many 'get rich quick' schemes did Ralph Kramden try? aka rags to riches.

Wealth is something that can't easily be lost. Families whose products have been household names for 100 yrs. Families like Heniz, Johnson & Johnson, etc....are wealthy. They'll weather any recession easily because we'll still buy their products.
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post #155 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Solip- never saw a response- which you are great at normally. Did you read my previous post about it not being simply 5.3 years return even doubling the high-end profits?

1) Yes, but I just checked it again and it looks like you added a lot more to it.

2) Where are you saying that $3.2 billion divided by $0.6 billion per year isn't 5.3 years?

3) Anyway, even based on previous $250-300 million in profits from revenue of $1.4 billion in 2013, plus all the other aspects of the company that have been cropping up (but mostly unverifiable) I think it's a great deal. Nest sold for $3.2 billion and the probably don't even do in revenue what Beats reportedly makes in profits. Beats, under Apple, could grow much faster, than I think a home thermostat and smoke/CO detector could. Square and Nintendol seem to be losing money, and Occulus is unproven. Of all the multi-billion dollar purchases we've seen from tech companies this appears to the lowest risk, highest gain, with the smallest profit to cost ratio. If you can think something better that has occurred more recently I'm all ears, but from all the available data, albeit most of it still just rumours, it looks like it would be a win for Apple.


Reposting your link to make sure I have the right one:

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post #156 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That skit did come to mind. Rich has always seemed to be easily attainable. How many 'get rich quick' schemes did Ralph Kramden try? aka rags to riches.

Wealth is something that can't easily be lost. Families whose products have been household names for 100 yrs. Families like Heniz, Johnson & Johnson, etc....are wealthy. They'll weather any recession easily because we'll still buy their products.

1) I'm going to have to make a concerted effort to use the terms in the accepted way but I must say it feels backwards to me.

2) I like the phrase form that article, "You're not wealthy until you own something money can't buy."

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post #157 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Yes, but I just checked it again and it looks like you added a lot more to it.

2) Where are you saying that $3.2 billion divided by $0.6 billion per year isn't 5.3 years?

3) Anyway, even based on previous $250-300 million in profits from revenue of $1.4 billion in 2013, plus all the other aspects of the company that have been cropping up (but mostly unverifiable) I think it's a great deal. Nest sold for $3.2 billion and the probably don't even do in revenue what Beats reportedly makes in profits. Beats, under Apple, could grow much faster, than I think a home thermostat and smoke/CO detector could. Square and Nintendol seem to be losing money, and Occulus is unproven. Of all the multi-billion dollar purchases we've seen from tech companies this appears to the lowest risk, highest gain, with the smallest profit to cost ratio. If you can think something better that has occurred more recently I'm all ears, but from all the available data, albeit most of it still just rumours, it looks like it would be a win for Apple.


Reposting your link to make sure I have the right one:
1- I tried to give an example for clarity.

2- you're using $3.2 billion as a static number that doesn't grow. If you're spending 3.2 billion- then you aren't making compound interest on $3.2 bil. When you calculate that- it's decades before any money is recouped. As in 50 years. And that's doubling their business. Even if it's quadrupled it wouldn't be smart. There is way more than hardware here. We just don't know what it is. Or the purchase price is off.
Side note- I know people knock the stock buybacks, but what other investment is making what apple stock is annually? I think it's a brilliant use of their money.

3- I agree wholeheartedly- Beats would be a much wiser investment for the same $. I think the Nest purchase was awful though. This would be great for the right price with the data we have now. I just think there's more to the story or less to the price.

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post #158 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) I'm going to have to make a concerted effort to use the terms in the accepted way but I must say it feels backwards to me.

2) I like the phrase form that article, "You're not wealthy until you own something money can't buy."

Like this guy? lol.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkB9OT2XVvA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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post #159 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

1- I tried to give an example for clarity.

2- you're using $3.2 billion as a static number that doesn't grow. If you're spending 3.2 billion- then you aren't making compound interest on $3.2 bil. When you calculate that- it's decades before any money is recouped. As in 50 years. And that's doubling their business. Even if it's quadrupled it wouldn't be smart. There is way more than hardware here. We just don't know what it is. Or the purchase price is off.
Side note- I know people knock the stock buybacks, but what other investment is making what apple stock is annually? I think it's a brilliant use of their money.

How do you get 50 years. I didn't count any interest (which I think we've been told it's around 1% and therefore bad for Apple to be holding all this cash) but I also didn't count the growth rate of Beats. Everything we've been told over the last 4 days continually points to this being a great deal for Apple if they can get it.

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post #160 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Like this guy? lol.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkB9OT2XVvA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I watch that and can't help but think, "6 gold bars on a tray would be too have for her to lift with such ease." But, yes, and I like the term opulence. I would say Dre already has plenty of opulence and, back on point, he could afford a $50 million house with or without any acquisition. But, hey, let's instead just say Dre is a guy who got lucky and is spending every dime on crap until he ends up in the poorhouse¡


edit: Apparently a standard bar of gold is 400 Troy ounces which is 12.4 Kg or 27.34 lbs which means 6 would be about 160 lbs, not including the tray, which also might be gold but then probably couldn't hold the weight of the bars, and the remote.

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