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Rumor: Beats' Jimmy Iovine, Dr. Dre could take the stage at Apple's WWDC - Page 2

post #41 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinpublic View Post

I always thought beats was an overly hyped over priced fad - and wearing their headphones meant here's a sucker. But if apple wants their staff, I guess that makes sense, but why dilute your brand with a no name brand that's associated with zero value, all status? Many people think that of apple now, this would just confirm it for a lot of on the fencers.

Knowing what I know about Apple, they'll probably trim down the line up of headphones to only a few models (some with colors) and then HOPEFULLY improving them so they don't sound like crap.  I don't know if they'll change the name from Beats to Apple since Beats has a big name that's recognizable. 


As far as their website, they might be adding some or all of their programmers to the iTunes staff.

 

That's about all they really have.

 

Beats was successful at branding and creating headphones as a fashion, which is really what they are.  but it helped kick start others to get their marketing act together to compete and then a few new players have come into play, but a lot of them go for the higher end market that Beats doesn't go after.  Beats stops at around $450 a pair of headphones, but there are a bunch of brands with headphones reaching the $3000+ price point for those that want the high priced stuff.


I just think Dr. Dre was more of an investor and figure head and not much more than that, he certainly wasn't sitting in front of a CAD station designing the things, that's for sure.

post #42 of 244
Right- and Tim Cook will appear with jeans falling off his azz. 1smoking.gif
 
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post #43 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Clearly influenced and seduced/fooled by Samsung propaganda, certain people have been claiming that Apple needs to be more cool. As if making the best computers and portable devices in the world isn't good enough. 

In response to this criticism, Apple has decided to embark on a "coolness" mission, in order to raise their profile and gain more street cred.

I have it from good sources that Tim Cook will take the stage at this years WWDC wearing pants where the waistline will be at about knee level. Tim Cook will also be sporting a huge gold chain while smoking a blunt on stage and claiming that the iPhone 6 will be loved by crazy bitches all over the world. 

Apple's corporate culture will also be influenced by this new direction, and Apple will now contract drive by shootings of their competitors, Samsung had better watch out. And since this is all about money, Apple will eventually get into the drug business, and possibly branch out into prostitution also, as that's always a high margin and profitable business venture. Can you get more high margin than prostitution? A ho's margin makes the iPhone's margin seem pathetic.

Apple will also be starting up it's own gangsta rap label called Apple iThug. Much like Apple's appstore approval process, the songs for Apple's label will have to undergo an approval process, and no songs will be accepted unless they are found to contain at least 50%racist,misogynistic, homophobic and otherwise offensive lyrics. The more, the better.

That's 50cent.
 
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post #44 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

When Apple kicks off its annual Worldwide Developers Conference on June 2, it could use the keynote as an opportunity to formally introduce its two newest executives: Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre of Beats Electronics.

Details of the rumored plans come from people familiar with the Beats acquisition talks who spoke with Bloomberg. Those unnamed sources indicated that both Dre, whose real name is Andre Young, and Iovine are expected to take executive roles at Apple, and with WWDC less than a month away, the keynote could be an ideal for the company to showcase its two newest recruits.

If this happens as rumored, the stage and audience could be as filled with optimistic energy and excitement since Jobs was up there. None of the current crop Cs compare to Jobs for stage presence.

... can't innovate, my ass!
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post #45 of 244

What hasn't yet been mentioned is that this is not just about image - it's about an already branded avenue to streaming and it's a way to diversify the hardware accessory line.   Margins on accessories are far higher than computers and phones for both the manufacturer and especially, the retailer.   Ask any electronics retailer what they make their money on and they'll tell you extended warranties, cables, batteries, headphones and the like.   Used to be printer ink as well, but except in business, people aren't using printers as much these days.  I suspect the margins are quite high on Beats' overpriced headphones and Apple could probably use their own manufacturing and operations expertise as well as their purchasing power with vendors to lower the cost further.    

 

Now one can certainly argue that for the money they're purportedly spending on the acquisition, Apple could have developed their own, perhaps superior line of headphones  (and a whole lot of other stuff besides), but like it or not, Beats is a very successful brand who claims to have owned 51% of the premium headphone market in 2012.   I probably would never buy anything in their current product line, but I'm an old white man who would stick with my Sennheisers (or perhaps the Bowers and Wilkins, which from a quality standpoint, might have been a better target for Apple).  

 

The downside of the acquisition is the cost and what this does to the mantra that Apple no longer knows how to innovate.   This will give ammunition to the critics who will say that Apple had to buy their way into this market.

 

Big question for me is whether Apple keeps the Beats brand or changes the products to Apple branding.    

 

I can't imagine Dr. Dre being an Apple exec for very long, at least not in a role that requires him to have a regular presence in an Apple office with a mandate to produce something or generate revenue.   He's got all these other projects that he would be working on outside of Apple.  It would be like hiring a famous actor. 

post #46 of 244
I'd like to see Iovine up there 80% of the time. The image of a Apple could be improved, if you will, with the quirky Iovine presenting Apple's products going forward. I cringe every time I see the dorky Cook or Schiller with his Mom jeans and big gut sticking out use the word "cool." They (Cook, Schiler et al) have absolutely ZERO enthusiasm when announcing products and services. Things need to change. It's not a huge factor, but it is. People loved Jobs' personality and stage presence. It meant a lot to the company. These 2 50-year olds that they're bringing in have more personality in their big toes than Apple's entire executive team has. Dre is a risk, though, with his history and rap lyrics, so maybe he should sit in the shadows off-stage. His drunken "I'm a billionaire" announcement shows he still poses a risk as a face of Apple.
post #47 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Imagine this, a bunch of non-musicians making money creating what they call music. Boy, this society is messed up. I'll watch DDWC, but I'll be cringing if they bring those two schmucks on stage and they actually start speaking.

 

Imagine this, non-musicians whose ignorance compels them to post on the internet and define what is and isn't music based on their own personal preference.  That almost never happens...

 
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post #48 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Knowing what I know about Apple, they'll probably trim down the line up of headphones to only a few models (some with colors) and then HOPEFULLY improving them so they don't sound like crap.  I don't know if they'll change the name from Beats to Apple since Beats has a big name that's recognizable. 


As far as their website, they might be adding some or all of their programmers to the iTunes staff.

That's about all they really have.

Beats was successful at branding and creating headphones as a fashion, which is really what they are.  but it helped kick start others to get their marketing act together to compete and then a few new players have come into play, but a lot of them go for the higher end market that Beats doesn't go after.  Beats stops at around $450 a pair of headphones, but there are a bunch of brands with headphones reaching the $3000+ price point for those that want the high priced stuff.


I just think Dr. Dre was more of an investor and figure head and not much more than that, he certainly wasn't sitting in front of a CAD station designing the things, that's for sure.

Beats will be huge in the car. Just think if Apple tried to sell Apple-branded speakers in the living room or the car. Won't work.

It's been rumored that Beats had revenue of 1.4b dollars in 2013. $3b doesn't sound too bad when you look at that figure, does it? Their head phones probably sell for 10 times the cost of materials. Maybe Apple's margins can get back up to 40% with Beats;)
post #49 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Rumour: Dr. Dre to replace Tim Cook as Apple CEO.

 

What BS.  

post #50 of 244
WWDC preso:

After TouchID login ...

"Siri, I'm going cruising with Kevin, Juliana, and Jose to celebrate our graduation -- please setup an alt rock playlist"

Siri: "I created 2 iBeats playlists and downloaded them to your iPhone -- so you can listen on CarPlay, AirPlay, or the iPhone"

Thank you Siri"

Siri: "I included a few of Juliana's favorites as her birthday is coming soon -- along with some of your personal audio from iCloud"

"Wow, Well done ... wish I'd thought of that!"

Siri: "Just doing my job"

Hit Preview Play to play highlight segments from the playlist.


Boom!
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post #51 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

Imagine this, non-musicians whose ignorance compels them to post on the internet and define what is and isn't music based on their own personal preference.  That almost never happens...

Well, i've studied and played music since I began in 1969.  I've played professionally and have been in some studios and fairly decent sized concerts, but it was more of a side line hobby than my normal method of generating income.  I had a lot of fun and have run into some fairly famous people that I've either shared the same stage or have jammed with, so i think I'm a little more qualified than your average Joe Blow off the street corner. I wouldn't say I'm the best musician in the world by any stretch of imagination, but I can hold my own in certain circumstances.  

 

I personally think that fundamentally music should be played by experienced and trained musicians (whether self taught or have gone through some form of training and preparing themselves to actually proficient enough).   What has happened and Iovine mentioned this is that a LOT of these large record labels aren't making half the money they used to and I think part of it is that they just aren't getting quality music out there that people are willing to buy.  Kids are stealing the music more and more and maybe because they don't respect the people making it.

 

The trend nowadays is putting out the old classic albums from the 50's, 60's, 70's on 24 Bit, SACD, DSD formats as well as repressing high grade vinyl because they are finally getting them to sound a LOT better than 16 Bit Redbook or MP3 file formats.  So the market is fragmenting quite a bit. But most of the POPULAR music is really very fad based and I'm not really sure how many of these songs  still be worth listening to 40 years from now.  How many rap songs get turned into a jazz standard?  That's what a lot of popular music would sometimes turn into.  I don't think we're going to hear the top jazz players doing a remake of Still D.R.E. where the musicians are playing the vocal line.  The thing is, there really isn't a melody line.  That's the problem. No melody, no real music.

post #52 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

I personally think that fundamentally music should be played by experienced and trained musicians (whether self taught or have gone through some form of training and preparing themselves to actually proficient enough).

 

I understand completely.  However, what's your definition of an instrument?  And would you also ignore the role of sound engineers in the music-making process?  The more you learn about music, and the more things you attempt in the production process, the more you realize you don't know.

 

Andre Young (aka Dr. Dre) has been around the music business for a very long time and been involved in many roles.  Production, post-production, etc.  To dismiss him as a non-musician requires a fairly narrow perspective on things.

 
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post #53 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post
 

 

What BS.  

Yeah, Dr. Dre's used Apple products, SURE, he's qualified.  eyes rolling /s

post #54 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 

 

And what's the bets they bring cans of Heineken on stage.

 

A pour-out-the-beer-and-drop-the-mic moment?

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post #55 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


... can't innovate, my ass!

 

Can't innovate... does this computer make my ass look big?

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post #56 of 244
Beats beats!
post #57 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

I understand completely.  However, what's your definition of an instrument?  And would you also ignore the role of sound engineers in the music-making process?  The more you learn about music, and the more things you attempt in the production process, the more you realize you don't know.

 

Andre Young (aka Dr. Dre) has been around the music business for a very long time and been involved in many roles.  Production, post-production, etc.  To dismiss him as a non-musician requires a fairly narrow perspective on things.

An instrument or a musical instrument? And what's your definition of a musician and someone qualified to play a musical instrument as a profession?  I know of plenty of master percussionists that would use found objects, but they have studied and practiced traditional forms of music either from a private instructor, through a formalized process, etc.  But they are MUSICIANS.  Some ass wipe using a turntable screwing up perfectly good albums to create a scratching noise?  That's BARELY qualified to be a musical instrument.  Some are good at it, but it's more of a fad that's lasted entirely longer than it should because ignorant people are impressed by people doing it.  It's more of a gimmick than a real instrument in my book.   Playing a drum machine?  Those were SUPPOSED to be used primarily as a means to practice or for songwriting and not really meant to replace drummers, even though they have in some circumstances.  Some use them in ADDITION to real musicians.  

 

Production and post production isn't PLAYING an instrument, it's just during the process of making or finishing the product, but that doesn't mean it's really music.  It's being marketed that way and it makes money, but it's certainly shouldn't be taken as anything serious on any level.  To think that it should be listened to with any seriousness is kind of being a lazy person that doesn't want to REALLY study music that's been around and solidified into REAL HONEST music.

 

Why are you dismissing everything else? Is it too difficult to study a real instrument and create something that actually uses REAL musicians, has REAL melody, harmony, etc.?  Is that too difficult to do?  Anyone can learn how to program a sequencer to come up with something that's just as good as any of these guys. It just takes getting used to a software program and knowing the most basic level of rhythm, but the software does most of the work. 

 

Software and synthesizers in the hands of a REAL musician is so much different than someone that doesn't have any serious musical training.

 

What sucks is the level of musicianship for a lot of these so-called "artists" is not really there.  It's a shame when you look at an album and there's not one single musician playing an actual musical instrument during the production.  It shows that there are too many musically ignorant kids getting manipulated by the media and society into thinking this stuff you THINK is music.  Sorry, you are going to have a tough time convincing a musician that this stuff should replace REAL music created by musicians.  It only teaches kids that they don't have to study music to make money in the music industry.  This type of mentality would NOT work 30+ years ago.  Heck, a LONG time ago, they wouldn't even hire a studio musician unless you read music.  Does Dr. Dre know how to read music as a producer?  He should.  Most of the REAL legendary producers like George Martin, Quincy Jones, and others that have produced legendary classic albums in pop music DEFINITELY know how to read music and those guys CAN play instruments and they know many different styles of music.  I look up to them, but Dr. Dre I dismiss as some scam artist that just happened to market his crap to ignorant children.

post #58 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 

 

I understand completely.  However, what's your definition of an instrument?  And would you also ignore the role of sound engineers in the music-making process?  The more you learn about music, and the more things you attempt in the production process, the more you realize you don't know.

 

Andre Young (aka Dr. Dre) has been around the music business for a very long time and been involved in many roles.  Production, post-production, etc.  To dismiss him as a non-musician requires a fairly narrow perspective on things.

Try to sing the melody line to a rap song.  That's one test one can do.  If there isn't a melody line, then a lot of songwriters wouldn't consider that a song.  Oh, BTW, back a long time ago, anyone that used a drum machine they considered that more of a demo song that wasn't releasable.  Some have produced decent songs using drum machines instead of a real drummer. Heck even Phil Collins did that on his first solo album, but what is Phil Collins?  A FREAKING TRAINED DRUMMER. So at least he knows what he's doing, but he didn't use a drum machine for every song he recorded.   Jan Hammer used sequenced drum tracks for his Miami Vice soundtracks, but he's an accomplished classically trained pianist, and he just so happens to be a seriously killer drummer that's played and recorded some insanely great albums over the years with the best drummers in the business, but since he had to pump out music for the TV series, he was under a time constraint and using synths replace drums was a lot easier for him to do.  He did everything himself played, wrote, engineered and produced it all.  But then again, that guy was a SERIOUS classically trained jazz musician that has played with lots of seriously great musicians over the years., so he's MORE than qualified.

post #59 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Try to sing the melody line to a rap song.  That's one test one can do.  If there isn't a melody line, then a lot of songwriters wouldn't consider that a song.  Oh, BTW, back a long time ago, anyone that used a drum machine they considered that more of a demo song that wasn't releasable.  Some have produced decent songs using drum machines instead of a real drummer. Heck even Phil Collins did that on his first solo album, but what is Phil Collins?  A FREAKING TRAINED DRUMMER. So at least he knows what he's doing, but he didn't use a drum machine for every song he recorded.   Jan Hammer used sequenced drum tracks for his Miami Vice soundtracks, but he's an accomplished classically trained pianist, and he just so happens to be a seriously killer drummer that's played and recorded some insanely great albums over the years with the best drummers in the business, but since he had to pump out music for the TV series, he was under a time constraint and using synths replace drums was a lot easier for him to do.  He did everything himself played, wrote, engineered and produced it all.  But then again, that guy was a SERIOUS classically trained jazz musician that has played with lots of seriously great musicians over the years., so he's MORE than qualified.

You'd be happy to learn that a lot of his beats are actually classical music beats that were sampled and drums added or whatever changes he made. YouTube dr Dre samples
post #60 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

. . .

 

There are many great musicians who never had any formal training whatsoever.  Paul McCartney for one (who also never knew how to read music).  Far too many early jazz and blues musicians to list (Muddy Waters, for example).  I really despise the largely white, upper-class, high-brow definition of what music should be and how it has been used throughout time to keep talented musicians from the lower classes in their place.

 

As well, read a bit about the sound engineers who worked with the Beatles (notably George Martin) who helped shape their simple arrangements and sound into something unique and magical.  Sound engineering and arranging are a vital part of shaping raw talent into something great.

 

Look, you're grasping hard to argue that great music comes from a scientific formula: formal training + melody + ... = great music.  And I'm arguing that talking about music that way is like dancing about architecture.

 

EDIT: Just realized you and I both used George Martin as examples in different ways.  Too funny...


Edited by auxio - 5/12/14 at 3:10pm
 
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post #61 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinpublic View Post

I always thought beats was an overly hyped over priced fad - and wearing their headphones meant here's a sucker. But if apple wants their staff, I guess that makes sense, but why dilute your brand with a no name brand that's associated with zero value, all status? Many people think that of apple now, this would just confirm it for a lot of on the fencers.

 

You need to get out and see more of the real world. Your view of this is in the extreme, tiny, minority. Your opinion is the typical knee-jerk reaction to popular brands. It’s the classic “only stupid people buy...” whatever you deem unworthy meme. Anything that doesn’t conform to your view is explained as the stupidity of the masses. The arrogance comes shining through. In short it’s the nerd ‘phile’ manifesto that only you know what is worth buying and priced appropriately. You are patently wrong when you assert that ‘many’ view Apple as a status brand with no value. The only people who think that are the ones in your minority ilk. You see your kind ranting and raving on c|net all day long when a positive article about Apple appears. And it’s very funny.

post #62 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric38 View Post


Beats will be huge in the car. Just think if Apple tried to sell Apple-branded speakers in the living room or the car. Won't work.

It's been rumored that Beats had revenue of 1.4b dollars in 2013. $3b doesn't sound too bad when you look at that figure, does it? Their head phones probably sell for 10 times the cost of materials. Maybe Apple's margins can get back up to 40% with Beats;)

Beats will be huge in the car?  I don't know about that.  The most popular names used in most cars is Harmon because they bought out Blaupunkt, Infinity, JBL, etc. and they mfg a lot the drivers. But the trend lately is for the high end cars, they are putting seriously more expensive car audio systems by companies like Focal, B&O, Meridian, Bermester, and a bunch of companies that make more seriously expensive and better sounding audio and home theater systems because they leverage what they know about home audio and home theater into REALLY good sounding car audio systems.  Beats doesn't even have a CLUE in comparison.   If you are going to spend $60K or more on a car and they are most likely going to have Harmon, or any of these other brands instead.  Beats only signed up Chrystler, which doesn't make cars that exceed the $35K mark (for the most part).  Harmon pretty much owns the auto industry, along with Carion and Panasonic.  Beats is a VERY small player, but I guess the car mfg that want to associate their brand with ghetto rap artists might go for Beats.  But I highly doubt you'll see Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi, Ferrari, etc. using Beats car speakers.   I don't think they want to destroy their brand that way.


Remember, Beats caters to kids between the ages of 13 and 25 is their big demographic.  People that spend a lot of money on cars want the same electronics in their stereo and home theater system and they don't use Beats.

 

 

I don't look at the gross revenues to determine the worth of a company, I would look at their earnings.  I read that Beats Music division loses money and there seeking at least hundred million a couple of months ago.  I think their is more value in the name in terms of the brand's worth, the headphone portion might be worth a couple of billion if they are at $1.4 Bil in sales with at least 10% to 20% net profit in that side of the business.  There's a lot that one has to look at to determine what the company is actually worth in terms of a buyout.  If Apple sells a pair of headphones and they normally make 30% gross profit, now they'll make more like 50% to 70% gross profit if they now own the company.  That's probably worth while.  But knowing Apple, they'll probably trim down the product line just like they do with all of their products. Since they know what the big sellers and profit making models are, they'll trim the fat for sure.  I don't know if Apple is going to build in the functionality of an iPod inside.  I think that might not be a wise idea.  It might make the product too heavy, too bulky and too expensive.


Edited by drblank - 5/12/14 at 3:13pm
post #63 of 244
This will be the first keynote that will not be G/PG rated. Expect Dre to say "motherf**ker" on stage as he greets his new boss, T. Diddy.

Cook = Ballmer

RIP Apple.
post #64 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post
 

I am losing interest on WWDC.  What is happenning to the world?

Spinning.

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post #65 of 244

I think Tim in growing each of Apple's businesses and put the top talent in charge:  Beats will take over the iTunes and music business.  I think iTunes needs an overhaul and make it independent from Apple's hardware business.  Making iTunes available on Android should be top priority.

post #66 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post
 

I am losing interest on WWDC.  What is happenning to the world?

 

We'll see. WWDCs big focus is 10.10.

Ah, yes. OS X Tintin.

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post #67 of 244
Ben Thompson (Apple intern, worked at Microsoft) has a thoughtful piece on why Apple might be buying beats. His conclusion is that Apple doesn't really have any meaningful growth drivers (outside of iPhone). So it's either going to become what Microsoft was in the 2000s (massive profits but stagnant stock) or possibly reinvent itself into a fashion house. Tim Cook made Jony Ive head of all design, he hired Angela Ahrendts to run retail and former YSL CEO Paul Deneuve as a special advisor. And now we have the Beats rumor. And Beats is all about brand/fashion (not technology).

http://stratechery.com/2014/apple-buying-beats/

Something similar was posted by Dave Troy at medium.com again, the angle is Apple is transitioning to a fashion company.

https://medium.com/p/ef40bb2cd162

Again these are just guesses and speculation but considering that no one so far has been able to come up with any valuable technology or IP (I'm sorry but music curation is not worth $3B) the fashion aspect is worth considering.
post #68 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Clearly influenced and seduced/fooled by Samsung propaganda, certain people have been claiming that Apple needs to be more cool. As if making the best computers and portable devices in the world isn't good enough. 

 

In response to this criticism, Apple has decided to embark on a "coolness" mission, in order to raise their profile and gain more street cred.

 

I have it from good sources that Tim Cook will take the stage at this years WWDC wearing pants where the waistline will be at about knee level. Tim Cook will also be sporting a huge gold chain while smoking a blunt on stage and claiming that the iPhone 6 will be loved by crazy bitches all over the world. 

 

Apple's corporate culture will also be influenced by this new direction, and Apple will now contract drive by shootings of their competitors, Samsung had better watch out. And since this is all about money, Apple will eventually get into the drug business, and possibly branch out into prostitution also, as that's always a high margin and profitable business venture. Can you get more high margin than prostitution? A ho's margin makes the iPhone's margin seem pathetic.

 

Apple will also be starting up it's own gangsta rap label called Apple iThug. Much like Apple's appstore approval process, the songs for Apple's label will have to undergo an approval process, and no songs will be accepted unless they are found to contain at least 50%racist,misogynistic, homophobic and otherwise offensive lyrics. The more, the better.

Lol! You forgot gambling and money laundering.

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post #69 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post
 

I think Tim in growing each of Apple's businesses and put the top talent in charge:  Beats will take over the iTunes and music business.  I think iTunes needs an overhaul and make it independent from Apple's hardware business.  Making iTunes available on Android should be top priority.

 

iTunes Music (and only music) App for Android? That's not really a bad idea since aren't most sales through iTunes now apps and other non-music related miscellany? The problem is the hundreds of different Android devices and trying to get all of them to work with iTunes...hmm... on second thought, maybe not such a good idea.

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post #70 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post

Those who think all Hip Hop is like that need to chill. The same could be said for Rock when you only look at the extreme examples.

Serious question: What are a couple of 'typical' (i.e., not 'extreme') examples of Hip Hop? (It is implicitly assumed in my question that it has to meet the test of popularity as well).

Can't think of more than one: Run, Rabbit, Run.

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post #71 of 244
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Originally Posted by drblank View Post
How many rap songs get turned into a jazz standard?

 

I present to you Richard Cheese.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

The thing is, there really isn't a melody line.  That's the problem. No melody, no real music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Try to sing the melody line to a rap song.  That's one test one can do.  If there isn't a melody line, then a lot of songwriters wouldn't consider that a song.

 

These statements are 100% false.  Just because you can't detect a melody doesn't mean it's not there.

"Proof is irrelevant" - Solipsism
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post #72 of 244
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Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Serious question: What are a couple of 'typical' (i.e., not 'extreme') examples of Hip Hop? (It is implicitly assumed in my question that it has to meet the test of popularity as well).

I trust all you folks realize Jimmy Iovine is a rock music guy not hip hop? John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, U2, Tom Petty to name just a few ... Jimmy Rocks!

An example of rock music: Climb Every Mountain.

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- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #73 of 244
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Originally Posted by justp1ayin View Post


You'd be happy to learn that a lot of his beats are actually classical music beats that were sampled and drums added or whatever changes he made. YouTube dr Dre samples

CLASSICAL music?  Or Classic music?  There's a difference.  Yeah, I could believe that he'd use classic recordings that were performed by other musicians, that's how a lot of the rap music is created, but that's kind of cheating.   It's like copying someone else's work and taking credit for it. that's just dumb.

 

Yeah, I know, it's an easy way to make a portion of your crap something recognizable.  RUN DMC did that, Janet Jackson's done that, a lot of people do that, but it doesn't make Dr. Dre and these others musicians because of it.

 

I studied from a well known musician that had a bunch of his famous tracks sampled and they originally did it without permission and never gave him royalties.  he wasn't upset, he was EXTREMELY PISSED OFF that they were doing this.  He had to get an attorney and sue their asses for copyright infringement. He prevailed and that whole thing created a lot of lawsuits as a result.  Rappers would do that with James Brown songs, and other famous jazz artists. but they didn't create their work to be sampled for some rap artist.  They were creating their own music and years later some loser wants to capitalize on it because they can't come up with anything themselves.

 

But most of the songs are just fad based and they don't last long on the charts and they rarely resurface as anything other than some stupid fad people did for a couple of years.


Seriously give more reasons to study REAL music rather than excuses not to.  You'll get more respect that way.


Sampling someone else's work is like going into a high quality book and taking about some scissors snipping out certain portions of that book and pasting it in your own and you never studied any ability to actually write your own book so you end up cutting and pasting someone else's.  That's what CHEATERS do.  Cheaters usually get kicked out of school, get sued, go to jail or something along those lines.

 

For a while, there were famous artists that I admired that took one of their songs and added a rapper for a remix version and you know what?  It messed up the song and I hated that they did that.  But they don't do that anymore.  I think some record exec was trying to create a new audience with some of these respected artists.  The record industry sometimes stoops that low to do crap like that just to get the kids to buy something with more substance behind it.  But it kind of failed.  It made their normal fans like me upset and the younger kids didn't buy into it, because listening to real music causes their brains to melt inside their heads and ooze out through their ears because they can't comprehend REAL music.  

 

It's funny how some people hate the sound of a person's real singing voice and they have to have it processed with AutoTune.  Music production has gone down hill in a lot of ways.  Heck, even a lot of pop music they have the tracks quantized so it's perfect timing, which just removes the soul and the life out of the musician's original tracks.  They have vocals go through pitch correction since they probably can't sing well to begin with, and everything is so processed.   What one would normally call music is just shifted into processed and homogenized forms of music.   The honesty in music is only left by the true musicians that won't cut corners to spit out an album.  That's what music IS and SHOULD be all about.  Not some scam to sell records to a certain demographic and commercialized through TV, Movies, products, etc. It's just sad how low the music industry has reached.

 

 

Oh, and think about this before you buy a new Rap song, these jerkoffs are probably at some point during the production laughing at how stupid their fans are for buying their crap you call music.  They trash talk their fans behind your back as they get high.  That's the kind of discussions they will have.  Don't think they don't think like that.  They are two faced.  I've heard that some recording studios refuse to sell recording time to a lot of these acts because they've been known to go into a studio and crank their big monitors with so much bass at such high volumes, that they blow speakers and amps which is VERY costly to replace.   Freaking idiots. People with NO respect for other people's equipment.


Edited by drblank - 5/12/14 at 3:43pm
post #74 of 244

"it could use the keynote as an opportunity to formally introduce its two newest executives"

 

Let me help you write this accurately.

 

"it could use the keynote as an opportunity to formally introduce its RUMORED two newest executives"

 

 

Nothing has been confirmed and yet you write as if it has been. 

 

That said, if this were true, given the reasons that were laid out why the would make sense for Apple, it would be the biggest waste of money in Apples history.

 

There is no way Beats is worth $1billion, never mind 3.5 billion.


 

post #75 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric38 View Post

I'd like to see Iovine up there 80% of the time. The image of a Apple could be improved, if you will, with the quirky Iovine presenting Apple's products going forward. I cringe every time I see the dorky Cook or Schiller with his Mom jeans and big gut sticking out use the word "cool." They (Cook, Schiler et al) have absolutely ZERO enthusiasm when announcing products and services. Things need to change. It's not a huge factor, but it is. People loved Jobs' personality and stage presence. It meant a lot to the company. These 2 50-year olds that they're bringing in have more personality in their big toes than Apple's entire executive team has. Dre is a risk, though, with his history and rap lyrics, so maybe he should sit in the shadows off-stage. His drunken "I'm a billionaire" announcement shows he still poses a risk as a face of Apple.

You say, "It's not a huge factor, but it is."

 

Which is it? Is it a huge factor or not a huge factor? Or did you just change your mind very quickly, so your opinion is that it is indeed now a huge factor, although previously you thought that it wasn't a huge factor?

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post #76 of 244
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Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Imagine this, a bunch of non-musicians making money creating what they call music. Boy, this society is messed up. I'll watch DDWC, but I'll be cringing if they bring those two schmucks on stage and they actually start speaking.

 

Imagine this, non-musicians whose ignorance compels them to post on the internet and define what is and isn't music based on their own personal preference.  That almost never happens...

Imagine that: a poster whose ignorance compels him to post on the internet and define who is and isn't a musician based on his own wild guess. That happens.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #77 of 244
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Originally Posted by drblank View Post

An instrument or a musical instrument? And what's your definition of a musician and someone qualified to play a musical instrument as a profession?  I know of plenty of master percussionists that would use found objects, but they have studied and practiced traditional forms of music either from a private instructor, through a formalized process, etc.  But they are MUSICIANS.  Some ass wipe using a turntable screwing up perfectly good albums to create a scratching noise?  That's BARELY qualified to be a musical instrument.  Some are good at it, but it's more of a fad that's lasted entirely longer than it should because ignorant people are impressed by people doing it.  It's more of a gimmick than a real instrument in my book.   Playing a drum machine?  Those were SUPPOSED to be used primarily as a means to practice or for songwriting and not really meant to replace drummers, even though they have in some circumstances.  Some use them in ADDITION to real musicians.  

Production and post production isn't PLAYING an instrument, it's just during the process of making or finishing the product, but that doesn't mean it's really music.  It's being marketed that way and it makes money, but it's certainly shouldn't be taken as anything serious on any level.  To think that it should be listened to with any seriousness is kind of being a lazy person that doesn't want to REALLY study music that's been around and solidified into REAL HONEST music.

Why are you dismissing everything else? Is it too difficult to study a real instrument and create something that actually uses REAL musicians, has REAL melody, harmony, etc.?  Is that too difficult to do?  Anyone can learn how to program a sequencer to come up with something that's just as good as any of these guys. It just takes getting used to a software program and knowing the most basic level of rhythm, but the software does most of the work. 

Software and synthesizers in the hands of a REAL musician is so much different than someone that doesn't have any serious musical training.

What sucks is the level of musicianship for a lot of these so-called "artists" is not really there.  It's a shame when you look at an album and there's not one single musician playing an actual musical instrument during the production.  It shows that there are too many musically ignorant kids getting manipulated by the media and society into thinking this stuff you THINK is music.  Sorry, you are going to have a tough time convincing a musician that this stuff should replace REAL music created by musicians.  It only teaches kids that they don't have to study music to make money in the music industry.  This type of mentality would NOT work 30+ years ago.  Heck, a LONG time ago, they wouldn't even hire a studio musician unless you read music.  Does Dr. Dre know how to read music as a producer?  He should.  Most of the REAL legendary producers like George Martin, Quincy Jones, and others that have produced legendary classic albums in pop music DEFINITELY know how to read music and those guys CAN play instruments and they know many different styles of music.  I look up to them, but Dr. Dre I dismiss as some scam artist that just happened to market his crap to ignorant children.
You are waaaaay more fired up than anyone else here. Dr. Dre has a producer of the year Grammy. He has been involved in the music industry as a producer for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Serious question: What are a couple of 'typical' (i.e., not 'extreme') examples of Hip Hop? (It is implicitly assumed in my question that it has to meet the test of popularity as well).
Others answered the question. Hip Hop is not all about money and hoes just like Rock is not all about drugs and Country is not all about Tractors. Yes rappers have songs about money and hoes because sadly that's the culture they came from or are accustomed to but not all hip hop artists are like that.

All vocal music is mostly just saying/singing about the same thing in different ways whether it's about love or having fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric38 View Post

I'd like to see Iovine up there 80% of the time. The image of a Apple could be improved, if you will, with the quirky Iovine presenting Apple's products going forward. I cringe every time I see the dorky Cook or Schiller with his Mom jeans and big gut sticking out use the word "cool." They (Cook, Schiler et al) have absolutely ZERO enthusiasm when announcing products and services. Things need to change. It's not a huge factor, but it is. People loved Jobs' personality and stage presence. It meant a lot to the company. These 2 50-year olds that they're bringing in have more personality in their big toes than Apple's entire executive team has. Dre is a risk, though, with his history and rap lyrics, so maybe he should sit in the shadows off-stage. His drunken "I'm a billionaire" announcement shows he still poses a risk as a face of Apple.
Hopefully Apple's product announcement enthusiastic savior will soon be...

Dun da da duuuuun

You can't spell appeal without Apple.
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You can't spell appeal without Apple.
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post #78 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

. . .

 

There are many great musicians who never had any formal training whatsoever.  Paul McCartney for one (who also never knew how to read music).  Far too many early jazz and blues musicians to list (Muddy Waters, for example).  I really despise the largely white, upper-class, high-brow definition of what music should be and how it has been used throughout time to keep talented musicians from the lower classes in their place.

 

As well, read a bit about the sound engineers who worked with the Beatles (notably George Martin) who helped shape their simple arrangements and sound into something unique and magical.  Sound engineering and arranging are a vital part of shaping raw talent into something great.

 

Look, you're grasping hard to argue that great music comes from a scientific formula: formal training + melody + ... = great music.  And I'm arguing that talking about music that way is like dancing about architecture.

 

EDIT: Just realized you and I both used George Martin as examples in different ways.  Too funny...

Great music needs harmony or melody or both. Even the freaking greatest drum solo/percussion concerto that is a joy to listen to isn't great music without these elements. 


Edited by Benjamin Frost - 5/12/14 at 3:41pm
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #79 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

An instrument or a musical instrument? And what's your definition of a musician and someone qualified to play a musical instrument as a profession?  I know of plenty of master percussionists that would use found objects, but they have studied and practiced traditional forms of music either from a private instructor, through a formalized process, etc.  But they are MUSICIANS.  Some ass wipe using a turntable screwing up perfectly good albums to create a scratching noise?  That's BARELY qualified to be a musical instrument.  Some are good at it, but it's more of a fad that's lasted entirely longer than it should because ignorant people are impressed by people doing it.  It's more of a gimmick than a real instrument in my book.   Playing a drum machine?  Those were SUPPOSED to be used primarily as a means to practice or for songwriting and not really meant to replace drummers, even though they have in some circumstances.  Some use them in ADDITION to real musicians.  

Production and post production isn't PLAYING an instrument, it's just during the process of making or finishing the product, but that doesn't mean it's really music.  It's being marketed that way and it makes money, but it's certainly shouldn't be taken as anything serious on any level.  To think that it should be listened to with any seriousness is kind of being a lazy person that doesn't want to REALLY study music that's been around and solidified into REAL HONEST music.

Why are you dismissing everything else? Is it too difficult to study a real instrument and create something that actually uses REAL musicians, has REAL melody, harmony, etc.?  Is that too difficult to do?  Anyone can learn how to program a sequencer to come up with something that's just as good as any of these guys. It just takes getting used to a software program and knowing the most basic level of rhythm, but the software does most of the work. 

Software and synthesizers in the hands of a REAL musician is so much different than someone that doesn't have any serious musical training.

What sucks is the level of musicianship for a lot of these so-called "artists" is not really there.  It's a shame when you look at an album and there's not one single musician playing an actual musical instrument during the production.  It shows that there are too many musically ignorant kids getting manipulated by the media and society into thinking this stuff you THINK is music.  Sorry, you are going to have a tough time convincing a musician that this stuff should replace REAL music created by musicians.  It only teaches kids that they don't have to study music to make money in the music industry.  This type of mentality would NOT work 30+ years ago.  Heck, a LONG time ago, they wouldn't even hire a studio musician unless you read music.  Does Dr. Dre know how to read music as a producer?  He should.  Most of the REAL legendary producers like George Martin, Quincy Jones, and others that have produced legendary classic albums in pop music DEFINITELY know how to read music and those guys CAN play instruments and they know many different styles of music.  I look up to them, but Dr. Dre I dismiss as some scam artist that just happened to market his crap to ignorant children.
You are waaaaay more fired up than anyone else here. Dr. Dre has a producer of the year Grammy. He has been involved in the music industry as a producer for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Serious question: What are a couple of 'typical' (i.e., not 'extreme') examples of Hip Hop? (It is implicitly assumed in my question that it has to meet the test of popularity as well).
Others answered the question. Hip Hop is not all about money and hoes just like Rock is not all about drugs and Country is not all about Tractors. Yes rappers have songs about money and hoes because sadly that's the culture they came from or are accustomed to but not all hip hop artists are like that.

All vocal music is mostly just saying/singing about the same thing in different ways whether it's about love or having fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric38 View Post

I'd like to see Iovine up there 80% of the time. The image of a Apple could be improved, if you will, with the quirky Iovine presenting Apple's products going forward. I cringe every time I see the dorky Cook or Schiller with his Mom jeans and big gut sticking out use the word "cool." They (Cook, Schiler et al) have absolutely ZERO enthusiasm when announcing products and services. Things need to change. It's not a huge factor, but it is. People loved Jobs' personality and stage presence. It meant a lot to the company. These 2 50-year olds that they're bringing in have more personality in their big toes than Apple's entire executive team has. Dre is a risk, though, with his history and rap lyrics, so maybe he should sit in the shadows off-stage. His drunken "I'm a billionaire" announcement shows he still poses a risk as a face of Apple.
Hopefully Apple's product announcement enthusiastic savior will soon be...

Dun da da duuuuun

So hip hop is mostly about money and gardening tools? Seems a funny mix.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #80 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

Imagine that: a poster whose ignorance compels him to post on the internet and define who is and isn't a musician based on his own wild guess. That happens.

 

You're right.  It was an educated guess based on the fact that most musicians I know are a lot more open-minded about music than drblank.  As one's experience in a field grows, it tends to make them more humble (the more you know, the more you realize you don't know).

 
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