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Apple remains mum as complaints mount over 2011 MacBook Pro GPU failures - Page 2

post #41 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1)

I find it easier, snappier and getting better results in posting a question here than on the Apple Support pages. With a petition resulting from that 100+ pages thread (I had to get this post back on topic, didn't I?)
Quote:
2)

That is a clever idea; they really should implement this. All it would take is to add iTunes to their Mobile Documents in iCloud (~/Library/Mobile Documents/):

3F6W968EF7~com~abvio~Cyclemeter
82J93X7T25~com~apple~mobileiphoto
com~apple~Automator
com~apple~finder
com~apple~Keynote
com~apple~mail
com~apple~Notes
com~apple~Numbers
com~apple~Pages
com~apple~Preview
com~apple~ScriptEditor2
com~apple~shoebox
com~apple~system~spotlight
com~apple~TextEdit
com~apple~TextInput
D5BQCYM3TN~nl~sanomadigital~nuhd
SHM24X5HK7~de~meteogroup~WeatherPro
XXKJ396S2Y~com~autodesk~SketchBookPro




3) So many options, so many things Apple could implement. I wish I could take a look at their wish list. Also wondering if they have their own one for Aperture; here's mine:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/179038/aperture-wish-list-aperturex-aperture-v4
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post #42 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That is a clever idea; they really should implement this. All it would take is to add iTunes to their Mobile Documents in iCloud (~/Library/Mobile Documents/)

That's a much better example than I gave since Mac OS X and iOS already work through this mechanism for many apps. That would nothing for them to add this feature.

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post #43 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That's a much better example than I gave since Mac OS X and iOS already work through this mechanism for many apps. That would nothing for them to add this feature.

1) Huh? Am I up-posting your post? Maybe I got out of bed the right way today. Guess I just learned from the best. 1wink.gif

2) I but it in as a feature request through their iTunes feedback page.

3) Off to my morning run now - cheers.
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post #44 of 128
Quote:

It isn't Apple failure, but rather the GPU manufactures that design and run chips right at the limits of the process technology. GPUs just are not reliable. Think about it a bit, why did Apple under clock the GPUs in the new Mac Pro? I'm willing to state that reliability was a big factor.
 

 

Usually I would agree if it actually was the GPU that is broke, however in this case the GPU wasn't properly soldered so it loses proper electrical connection under minimal thermal stress (created by simply turning it on) creating havoc in the system.

 

Many folks would actually be happy if they could just permanently disable the discrete GPU and rely on the Intel HD GPU instead (which of course means losing the ability to connect an external display) however with Apple not providing half-assed workarounds for problems they don't consider a problem people have to use nasty hacks to somehow disable the driver which has the very bad side effect of disabling any GPU acceleration so the whole UI runs slow and sluggish as hell. The other way to continue working with the machine is to install Linux instead where it is possible to turn off the discrete GPU on boot with some register writes ...

post #45 of 128
Yes, read about this issue back in october and hoped it doesn't affect me. GPU failed in february, 1 month after my Apple Care expired. Repair cost >650$ in Germany. Please apple, finally recognize this issue!
post #46 of 128

There is a huge problem here. Apple not admitting they are at fault. The evidence is overwhelming and it is time for a remedy. I hope they are slapped with a class action of huge proportions and as part of the settlement, they must ADMIT THEY WERE AT FAULT AND WILL AGGRESSIVELY FIX FUTURE PROBLEMS.

 

When is greed considered okay in business? Apple has made huge amounts of money from customers. To not admit they have a problem until they are forced to brings Apple down to the lowest level of business. I have lost respect for them.

post #47 of 128
This is the condition my MBP 2011.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btpf8_w83Is
post #48 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post
 

Those are so ancient MacBooks. It's not Apple's fault. Come on folks. Upgrade! Upgrade!

P.S. Joking! Joking! Joking! :smokey:

 

It's so ancient that it's still under AppleCare. Mine had the motherboard replaced twice right after the two year mark (thankfully under AppleCare). That IS Apple's fault. It's a hardware design problem. In the end I sold mine for nearly no money (and had to spend thousands on a new Retina one only two years into this one), as I couldn't trust it and informing the buyer clearly of the issue, leaving him with a bit of AppleCare as a just in case. That is unacceptable, especially for a Pro machine worth a few grand.

 

Macs have historically lasted twice as long as WinTel machines, and their Pro machines in particular have been workhorses you could push for years and years knowing they would work reliably and with few issues. No one is perfect, sure and there can always be a lemon, but not thousands of lemons. It's not the screw up that's the problem, but the lack of response since it started to become obvious that it's a hardware design issue affecting a hell of a lot of people.

 

Two years is not ancient under any standard. Three years isn't either, especially not in the Pro computer world.

 

Just pondering...

post #49 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Sadly things are much better in the PC world.

 

Really?

 

So which PC manufacturer extends warranty beyond 3 years.

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post #50 of 128

None of them do.Only Apple.

post #51 of 128

Today after my fifth email to Tim Cook, I got a phone call from an Apple representative in Ireland. He told me Apple is aware of the situation and technicians are working on it. He does not know if there will be a replacement program coming. Both scenarios are possible at the moment: Apple doing something about it or not doing something about it (depends on the number of faulty machines). So keep emailing Apple and let them know. The more people are complaining, the better the chances of a replacement program. At the moment, if I want my MacBook Pro to work properly again I have to pay for the logic board replacement by myself (500€).

post #52 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post
 

 

True, but Apple's selling a whole system. Unless you think the affected users should be petitioning AMD for help?

Apple was the one who decided to use that particular graphics card. They have also quite likely customized it to work with their in-house hybrid graphics setup.

post #53 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

None of them do.Only Apple.
An article on various laptop warranty policies here.
http://www.zdnet.com/pc-laptops-and-accidental-damage-best-and-worst-warranties-2014-7000011910/
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #54 of 128
I have exclusively used Apple computers since 1999.

Ironically, at almost the exact same time that this article was posted yesterday, I was editing a photo in Photoshop on my 2011 17" MacBook Pro when suddenly the screen went black. When I tried to restart the computer, my external Thunderbolt display looked very much like the 2nd photo above and the MPB display was light gray.

I have taken it to an authorized Apple repair shop (we don't have a local Apple store), but after reading this article, I think I already know what the problem is. In order to keep up with my job, I'll probably have to go buy a $2k MBP for something that should be fixed by Apple. I'm also losing valuable work time while this is being sorted out. It's incredibly frustrating that Apple is not stepping up and resolving these issues. My confidence in this company is really changing.
post #55 of 128

As Apple has had previous replacement and repair programs, I can only assume that the issue never hit critical mass.  That is, there probably aren't enough people affected to warrant such a program.  They are likely to content to deal with it on a  case-by-case basis.  Having dealt with Apple customer service on the phone many times, I can say that it really depends who you talk to.  I've had one guy refuse to replace an 8 month old battery, and another replace, it no questions asked.  It's not as inconsistent at the stores, but there is some variance in what they are willing to do.   The other issue that we're talking about computers that are three years old.  In another year or two, people are likely going to be replacing them anyway.   

 

I have a mid-2009 MBP, and while I've got no video issues, I do have major speed issues.   I know people have tried to debunk this, but I am convinced that RAM and other solid-state components wear out with use.  It has a 500GB conventional HDD, and I think that is part of the issue as well.  

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post #56 of 128
I reckon there are around 3 million of the 2011 models in circulation. I'm not sure what levels qualify for a repair program but a 1% failure rate would be low yet leave 30,000 people with a broken machine. If a significant portion of that 30k went online to complain, it would seem like a huge problem.

I don't think Apple should charge so much for the repair. If the number of repairs is low then the hit they'd take is small. To spend $500 to fix a machine worth about $800-1000 is hard to justify. IMO, they should offer a couple of options: $200 for the repair (similar to a battery replacement cost) or the owner can get $500 credit towards the cost of a new or refurb laptop and have to give Apple their old laptop. They should make whatever rules they have consistent across their service staff too.

There should also be a software/firmware update that allows users to manually disable the GPU entirely at boot time if they choose.

If the failure rate is 30,000 units, the loss here for Apple should be no more than $15m. It wasn't necessarily Apple's fault, it could have been AMD like it was NVidia's fault before that.
post #57 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

How exactly do you mean: 'stream from iDevices'? If you want to control playback from an iDevice simply open the Music app/More/Shared and pick the PC/Mac that has the media you want to play back. It does time out on my MacPro, might be due to the excessive amount of media (66,000) with a 135MB .xml file.




It does work instantly when using the Remote.ipa




Since you're IT affluent I take it you mean something different then this....

Wow, I never knew that! Thanks.
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post #58 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by prof View Post

Usually I would agree if it actually was the GPU that is broke, however in this case the GPU wasn't properly soldered so it loses proper electrical connection under minimal thermal stress (created by simply turning it on) creating havoc in the system.

Many folks would actually be happy if they could just permanently disable the discrete GPU and rely on the Intel HD GPU instead (which of course means losing the ability to connect an external display) however with Apple not providing half-assed workarounds for problems they don't consider a problem people have to use nasty hacks to somehow disable the driver which has the very bad side effect of disabling any GPU acceleration so the whole UI runs slow and sluggish as hell. The other way to continue working with the machine is to install Linux instead where it is possible to turn off the discrete GPU on boot with some register writes ...

Did you try gfxCardStatus.app?
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post #59 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovacm View Post

It is not GPU fault.
It is soldering fault.
Over time and temperature GPU lose contact with motherboard.

If true, I have to say, that in my book, defines a design fault.
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post #60 of 128

I had the previous MacBook issue where the nvidia GPU failed and it was fixed.  I have my early 2011 17" laptop (which the warranty expires late next month) and have had no issues.  I've watched plenty of HD movies, played some high powered games with no issue.  This isn't to say it won't fail the next day after the warranty expires....

 

Still a shame there is no longer a 17" option for MacBook Pros.  

post #61 of 128
Originally Posted by jj1807 View Post
My confidence in this company is really changing.

 

Doubt it.

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post #62 of 128

I just had my early 2011 MBP GPU failure last month.  I brought it to the Genuis Bar and was quoted just under $700 to replace the logic board.  It was a little steep, so I decided to get the GPU re-balled with a local electronic professional for $180.

 

It's been a month since the re-ball and everything is still working properly.  The solder that Apple uses which is green friendly cracks and brittle under high temperatures.  

 

If you can't wait for a recall from Apple, I would suggest finding a professional solder to re-ball your GPU.

post #63 of 128
It also happened to late 2011 MBPs. I asked for services last week and had its motherboard replaced.
There were multiple symptoms : stripe booting screen, displaying irregular white dots while using and hang ( sometimes recovers from the state ), finally it showed blue screen of death, real blue without any messages. It's funny, on Mac, it should be semi-white screen of death with messages. And finally it couldn't find a booting HDD.

I suspected Core Images/Video & thus GPUs. When I scroll web pages with photos, or when I changed UI for a project with Xcode, this problem appeared.

This is very interesting. From GMA 2000 era of Intel Integrated Graphics Unit, similar white dots problems appeared. ( you can search it on Intel's support community sites. )
If it's not GPU problem, probably it's about some component working with GPUs.
post #64 of 128
I have a 17" early 2011 MacBook Pro that is not showing any of these symptoms yet. Looking at the system report, I see that Viseo Card is described as:
AMD Radeon HD 6750 M GPU PCIe
Intel HD Graphics 3000 GPU built-in
The seems different from what is described here as "AMD-built GPUs" and identified as the source of the problem. Can we get some clarification on this? Do all early 2011 MacBook Pro laptops fit the profile of those that are likely to fail?
post #65 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Did you try gfxCardStatus.app?

 

gfxCardStatus works great and in many ways saved me so I could backup certain items before taking it in for both motherboard changes, but at times, in order to get to select the Intel GPU, it would take a number of restarts as it has to go through the discrete graphics card first in order to get there, throwing a graphical hissy fit and freezing the Mac along the way.

 

Still, after a while, not even gfxCardStatus will save you. You simply will not be able to get to that point. It's a hardware defect that once it has occurred, has no real solution unless you could somehow disable the discrete graphics card permanently, which would still be a temporary workaround really, since you didn't pay extra to only have the Intel chip on your MacBook Pro.

 

The only real option is a motherboard change and that's still a lottery (I can attest to that 2 motherboard changes later). That's sort of fine (considering you can no longer trust your computer) unless you have to actually pay for it, which as AppleCare runs out for everyone, will be the only option apart from going out to purchase a new computer for a few grand and tossing the old one or selling it for a lot less than you would normally get.

 

Just pondering...

post #66 of 128
The miracle case.

Kyiv, Ukraine. I was affected by this problems as well, and I didn't have Apple Care. The logic board has been checked by local Apple Service Provider and replaced after my email to Tim Cook and Phil Schiller.
post #67 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lowney View Post

I have a 17" early 2011 MacBook Pro that is not showing any of these symptoms yet. Looking at the system report, I see that Viseo Card is described as:
AMD Radeon HD 6750 M GPU PCIe
Intel HD Graphics 3000 GPU built-in
The seems different from what is described here as "AMD-built GPUs" and identified as the source of the problem. Can we get some clarification on this? Do all early 2011 MacBook Pro laptops fit the profile of those that are likely to fail?

It's the same model, they all have two GPUs. If you never used the dedicated GPU much, it might not fail because it would be using the HD 3000 most of the time. The 6750M only gets used for certain GPU-accelerated tasks.
post #68 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I reckon there are around 3 million of the 2011 models in circulation. I'm not sure what levels qualify for a repair program but a 1% failure rate would be low yet leave 30,000 people with a broken machine. If a significant portion of that 30k went online to complain, it would seem like a huge problem.

I don't think Apple should charge so much for the repair. If the number of repairs is low then the hit they'd take is small. To spend $500 to fix a machine worth about $800-1000 is hard to justify. IMO, they should offer a couple of options: $200 for the repair (similar to a battery replacement cost) or the owner can get $500 credit towards the cost of a new or refurb laptop and have to give Apple their old laptop. They should make whatever rules they have consistent across their service staff too.

There should also be a software/firmware update that allows users to manually disable the GPU entirely at boot time if they choose.

If the failure rate is 30,000 units, the loss here for Apple should be no more than $15m. It wasn't necessarily Apple's fault, it could have been AMD like it was NVidia's fault before that.

 

I bet the number isn't even close to to 1%.   If it was, they'd have already done something about it.  A 1% defect rate in a tech product like this would be astronomical.  

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post #69 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Actually my 2008 is ancient, I'm just not ready to up grade. Hoping for something next generation real soon.

You'll find that the new 2014 mbp looks so similar to your 2008 one. 

post #70 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
 

As Apple has had previous replacement and repair programs, I can only assume that the issue never hit critical mass.  That is, there probably aren't enough people affected to warrant such a program.  They are likely to content to deal with it on a  case-by-case basis. 

Not sure that really is the case here. I think first they considered it a fluke concerning only few people and now they're scrambling to create a remedy that doesn't involve replacing many millions of devices with brand new rMBPs (and reimbursing all the ridiculous logic board swapping costs) or otherwise means losing their face... The most likely outcome will be that they instruct their service people to have the devices of very nagging customers replaced FoC (of course without admitting any general problem) so they will only have to burn a couple M$ instead of billions.

post #71 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Did you try gfxCardStatus.app?

You're missing the point. gfxCardStatus.app needs the device to correctly boot up (which is often not possible with affected devices) and if it does it can only forward the users will to the OS without actually guaranteeing that it really will stay on the iGPU. Connect an external display or start any demanding application or browse some website (the flash plugin will be happy to help you out here) and it will switch to the discrete GPU whether you like it or not immediately crashing the system. The only known way in OSX to prevent access to the dGPU is to remove the drivers with said side effects...

post #72 of 128
Quote:
It's the same model, they all have two GPUs. If you never used the dedicated GPU much, it might not fail because it would be using the HD 3000 most of the time. The 6750M only gets used for certain GPU-accelerated tasks.

True, but doesn't matter, the breakage occurs without or without heavy usage of the dGPU. Also note that the use of an external display automatically requires the use of the dGPU so even if you just do text document editing while connected to a second screen all day long it will put some on-hours on your dGPU.

 

I'm definitely not a heavy GPU user (but I do have a second screen connected most of the time) and I do monitor the temperatures and have fan profiles optimized for lower temperatures rather than less noise and yet my dGPU broke twice already (and according to the shop replacing the logic board they've even received a dud on the second round, so this Unibody has seen 4 boards already)...

post #73 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post

Ditto. I've already be burned once by Apple's GPU failures (Nvidia 8600M GT).

Same here. My MacBook Pro 3,1 died early last year from the nvidia GPU defect. The machine was fine otherwise. I cannot afford to buy replacements for defective hardware that should last much longer than this. Apple has no replacement parts any more for that model, so I couldn't repair it if I had the money to. I'm very worried about running my last MacBook Pro hot (5,5) fearing a similar problem will strike. These GPU defects are repeatedly screwing consumers of all brands of notebook computers, not just Macs, and it needs to stop. But who's going to regulate computer defects? No one. No lemon law exists. No consumer protection in the USA for computer tech.
post #74 of 128
I wrote an article describing the issue, and how to proceed if it happens to you:

https://people.cam.cornell.edu/~zc227/extras/early2011mbp_graphics.html

Just hoping it helps anyone who was in the same boat as me a month ago...
post #75 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I bet the number isn't even close to to 1%.   If it was, they'd have already done something about it.  A 1% defect rate in a tech product like this would be astronomical.  

No they wouldn't. It has happened before. It takes a lot to get them to be accountable. If the defect doesn't show itself until customer service contracts are concluded, they have no motivation to respond to it... unless it's a big PR problem.

Most big corporations will ignore a large percentage of defects and customers so long as it doesn't hurt their public image. With computer tech, unless the defects get regularly mentioned in magazines and high profile web reviews, where it seems to possibly affect future sales, there's rarely any accommodation or accountability for even mass defects.
post #76 of 128
My wife had this exact problem with her early 2011 MBP 15": Sluggish performance, random panics, fan always running, screen distortion, freeze 'n go, extremely frustrating.

But it was mavericks that put the nail in the coffin. I could not complete installation without a split screen crash.

Showed this to the apple Genius Bar ( on something like the 7th visit regarding this issue - twice during all this they took it for over a week, but never could reproduce the problem) and the final response was "you're out of warranty, $800 to replace motherboard.

Fortunately my wife had purchased a 3rd party service contract through her school.

They replaced the motherboard and no problems since.

Got really really tired of genius runaround and asking $800 to fix a manufacturing defect was totally over the top ...

I'd definitely join a class action lawsuit. Apple's response was not acceptable.
Edited by vaporland - 5/14/14 at 1:22pm
post #77 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


It isn't Apple failure, but rather the GPU manufactures that design and run chips right at the limits of the process technology. GPUs just are not reliable. Think about it a bit, why did Apple under clock the GPUs in the new Mac Pro? I'm willing to state that reliability was a big factor.

While not the same thing my MBP from 2008 is also showing signs of a GPU failure. In this case the internal display seems to loose every other column. It could be LCD related as external displays work fine. Sadly things are much better in the PC world.

I wish this wasn't the case bu the fact is video cards go bad frequently.

 

They could be more aggressive on cooling them. Note they had problems with 2010 models too. I'm curious how some of the recent integrated graphics chips will hold up. The reason I don't think that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I reckon there are around 3 million of the 2011 models in circulation. I'm not sure what levels qualify for a repair program but a 1% failure rate would be low yet leave 30,000 people with a broken machine. If a significant portion of that 30k went online to complain, it would seem like a huge problem.

I don't think Apple should charge so much for the repair. If the number of repairs is low then the hit they'd take is small. To spend $500 to fix a machine worth about $800-1000 is hard to justify. IMO, they should offer a couple of options: $200 for the repair (similar to a battery replacement cost) or the owner can get $500 credit towards the cost of a new or refurb laptop and have to give Apple their old laptop. They should make whatever rules they have consistent across their service staff too.

There should also be a software/firmware update that allows users to manually disable the GPU entirely at boot time if they choose.

If the failure rate is 30,000 units, the loss here for Apple should be no more than $15m. It wasn't necessarily Apple's fault, it could have been AMD like it was NVidia's fault before that.


It varies. Out of warranty they commonly offer flat rate repairs, which is usually $300-350. If offered they fix whatever is broken, but I don't think that covers expendable parts like batteries. This one seems to be a lead free solder issue. It's not like some of the alternative materials are much better for the environment anyway. I doubt they'll open a repair program for this one. Typically those offered repairs within 3 years of purchase. Many are already moving out of that window. In fact Applecare expired on mine.

post #78 of 128

Apple needs to do better. Once the problem is known the company should from that moment on implement a policy that fixes this problem for all customers. Instead it seems that they haven't issued a company wide notice about this known problem and how to handle it. They let each store take their customers down this path where they must pay money and jump through hoops to get their machines functioning properly. That isn't fair or right. 

 

Apple is doing exactly the same as other giant corporations. They stall, deny, and sweep under the rug their knowledge of what is really happening in order to keep profits up. This is not what an ethical company would do. 

post #79 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1807 View Post

I have exclusively used Apple computers since 1999.

Ironically, at almost the exact same time that this article was posted yesterday, I was editing a photo in Photoshop on my 2011 17" MacBook Pro when suddenly the screen went black. When I tried to restart the computer, my external Thunderbolt display looked very much like the 2nd photo above and the MPB display was light gray.

I have taken it to an authorized Apple repair shop (we don't have a local Apple store), but after reading this article, I think I already know what the problem is. In order to keep up with my job, I'll probably have to go buy a $2k MBP for something that should be fixed by Apple. I'm also losing valuable work time while this is being sorted out. It's incredibly frustrating that Apple is not stepping up and resolving these issues. My confidence in this company is really changing.

 

My ten year old Ford broke down, I was late to work I lost money, Ford should replace it.

 

Enjoy your new Dell or whatever.

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post #80 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

My ten year old Ford broke down, I was late to work I lost money, Ford should replace it.

 

Enjoy your new Dell or whatever.


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