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Apple sued over text messaging issues related to switching away from iPhone

post #1 of 178
Thread Starter 
Apple is being sued yet again, this time from a former iPhone user who claims the company's iMessage service is causing texts coming to her new Android smartphone to vanish.

iMessage


According to the complaint filed on Thursday with the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, plaintiff Adrienne Moore says Apple device owners are "penalized and injured" when switching away from iMessage. The lawsuit was first spotted by Bloomberg.

In her claim, Moore notes she was automatically opted-in to use iMessage when her iPhone 4 updated to iOS 5. When she later traded in that device for a Galaxy S5 in April, iMessage continued to send text messages originating from other iPhone users to the now deactivated Apple smartphone without forwarding them to the Samsung handset. Senders are not notified that their message was not forwarded, leaving both parties in the lurch.

Apple has been aware of this issue since the release of iOS 5. In a support document covering iMessage troubleshooting, the company warns users to turn off the proprietary service prior to transferring their SIM card or phone number to a non-iOS device. If proper steps are not taken, other iOS devices may continue to send text messages via iMessage instead of SMS or MMS for up to 45 days.

Moore claims she and other iOS device owners were not made sufficiently aware of the system issue and as a result missed "countless" texts, causing irreparable harm.

The lawsuit is seeking class-status under California's unfair competition law, claiming iMessage is wrongfully interfering with customers' wireless contracts by restricting the use of carrier text messaging systems.

post #2 of 178
But who should have standing? Apple isn't interfering with their SMS's. The problem is with their remaining customers who have an iPhone that improperly recognizes a contact as an iMessage contact. I would think that the sender would have standing, and if you look at their options, the could simply turn off iMessage to send an SMS (or hold down on the blue coded message and select "Send as Text Message")
post #3 of 178
I suppose ignorance is as good an excuse as any for a lawsuit ....
post #4 of 178
Just switch back lady, ....solved.
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #5 of 178
I think suing is way over the top, but this is a problem for which Apple needs to develop a better solution. It's too easy to be ignorant of the fact that - or to forget that - you need to deactivate iMessage before moving to a different type of phone.

Similarly, it can be easy, when selling a device, to forget to deactivate it for iTunes purchases. Normally, you can only deactivate a device from that specific device, but if you've already sold it, it can be too late. In that case, Apple offers a mechanism that allows you to deactivate all devices, via a log-in to your iTunes account from any device, and the effect is immediate. They need some way that a user can deactivate iMessage without needing the actual device and without having to wait for 45 days.
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post #6 of 178
I hope this lawsuit is thrown out AND she is forced to pay all legal bills to teach her and others a lesson.
post #7 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Just switch back lady, ....solved.

Agreed and on the same note, I would love to show her in person! :smokey:

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....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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post #8 of 178
I have a friend who asked me to help her with this problem. I sat down with her old phone, new phone, I texted them with my iPhone, another friends old phone who used to text her that can't now.. I tried every setting, turning her iMessage off then on, leaving it off, sending as text message from my phone, sending it to her phone number not Apple ID, etc... Nothing worked, it was a pain. I told her to talk with her carrier next. Not sure what happened after that.
post #9 of 178

Remove your phone number from iMessage. Dumb arse.

post #10 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

Remove your phone number from iMessage. Dumb arse.

How, if you don't have an iOS device any more?


There's definitely a problem here, and it's tied up with Apple's integration of SMS and iMessage.  If Apple are acknowledging it, and yet haven't solved it since iOS5, then a lawsuit is fair enough; they should have fixed it.

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post #11 of 178
Three things here
1. if someone sells off their old iPhone without making sure new phone is working that is rather silly of them but in this day of trade in offers its not a shock
2. if you call Apple Care they can remove your number from the system manually.
3. if it is true that Apple has known about this since iOS 5 they should have changed iOS 6 and & to deactivate the number in the system any time the phone is wiped. Whats the harm since you can reactivate it when you activate the new phone.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #12 of 178
Why doesn't Apple automatically build in "deactivation" of iMessage (and any other service) when you go to reset your device? That would solve this problem 90% of the way, IMO.
post #13 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Similarly, it can be easy, when selling a device, to forget to deactivate it for iTunes purchases. Normally, you can only deactivate a device from that specific device, but if you've already sold it, it can be too late. 

 

I think you might be confusing authorizing computers in this. You don't activate devices for purchases in the same way. The only way a device would still be 'activated' is if you didn't erase it before handing it over. Which is a whole other mess

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #14 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Three things here
1. if someone sells off their old iPhone without making sure new phone is working that is rather silly of them but in this day of trade in offers its not a shock
2. if you call Apple Care they can remove your number from the system manually.
3. if it is true that Apple has known about this since iOS 5 they should have changed iOS 6 and & to deactivate the number in the system any time the phone is wiped. Whats the harm since you can reactivate it when you activate the new phone.

Re: #3 -> beat me to it! ;)

post #15 of 178

Apple needs to provide a means of fixing this after the fact.  I was not aware of this issue and was an Apple At Home Advisor for iOS last year.  There is no mention of the need to disable iMessage before leaving iPhone in the iPhone User Guide either.

post #16 of 178

so they filed a law suit instead of calling tech support?

post #17 of 178
I know a couple of people that are having this exact issue. Removing your number from your Apple ID doesn't seem to make any difference.

Its seems more like an issue that your friends phones have learned you have an iPhone so they send an iMessage and anything you do on your phone wont have an instant effect on theirs, therefore you have to wait the 45 days for their phones to update.
post #18 of 178
1. She buys a the least innovative phone on the market. The galaxy s5.
2. She doesn't even google the stuff.
3. She doesn't contact Apple to remove the number
4.She doesn't restore her phone before trading it in or sign out if her iCloud/iMessage/Facetime
5. Why is she still running iOS 5?
6. Maybe her friends had her number as iPhone under contacts 1smoking.gif
7. She actually sues them.
8. She doesn't even check for a fix.
post #19 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post
 

so they filed a law suit instead of calling tech support?

Welcome to the US of A.

post #20 of 178
Apple should take some responsibility here. It's not something you typically think you would have to do, and once you no longer have an Apple device, the procedure for unlinking your phone number from iMessage is not clear.
post #21 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

I know a couple of people that are having this exact issue. Removing your number from your Apple ID doesn't seem to make any difference.

Its seems more like an issue that your friends phones have learned you have an iPhone so they send an iMessage and anything you do on your phone wont have an instant effect on theirs, therefore you have to wait the 45 days for their phones to update.
Try signing in and out, rebooting. Deleting and reading the contact. Disabling the device from iMessage threw iCloud. Use an email address as default.
post #22 of 178

This is a huge problem. The "fixes" some of you are talking about don't always work. I see this happen almost on a daily basis. Sometime deactivating your number first works sometimes it doesn't. People have done every single step on this page http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2755 and it still doesn't work. It's a really big issue that is all on Apple this time. 

post #23 of 178

I think this lady actually thought she will will be able to receive iMessages after switching to Android.  This is like the smartphone kill mechanism many Android users want that they coerced lawmakers to force smartphone makers to implement it although I think Apple has a patent.  

post #24 of 178

My understanding is that switching off iMessage does not consistently solve this issue. This is a long-standing problem, and it seemed to affect people who sold their iPhone, but did not log out of their Apple ID. Supposedly, one of the major carriers had been telling customers they would need to wait ~40 days before iMessages would stop intercepting SMS texts. I'm not sure if this applied to those switching platforms or merely swapping out one iPhone for another.

 

Seems that the best way to avoid this issue is to turn iMessages off, log the iPhone out of the Apple ID, switch off Find My iPhone, AND do a factory reset of the iPhone before moving the SIM card over to a different phone. I suspect that most people having issues with iMessages failed to do at least one of those steps.

 

iMessages were originally pitched as a way around the per-text fees charged by carriers. The genius of iMessage is how it seamlessly integrates a closed-loop messaging service with SMS and MMS messages. Aside from the background color, I can't tell if the message comes to me from iMessage or a different format.

 

It's one of those "it just works" features that apparently falls apart when you try to unbundle the SMS texting from Apple's proprietary service. Then again, this pattern seems similar to how iLife and iTunes don't play nice when it comes to sharing files with other applications.

post #25 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post
 

so they filed a law suit instead of calling tech support?

Sometimes tech support can't even fix it.

post #26 of 178
Read the documentation and shut your trap! I bet these are the same people that click "okay" without reading the dialogue box on their computers.
post #27 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

Apple should take some responsibility here. It's not something you typically think you would have to do, and once you no longer have an Apple device, the procedure for unlinking your phone number from iMessage is not clear.

Are they the same SIM cards? I would think putting her back in an iPhone, turning off the service, them going back to her current phone that it would work based on what I understand the problem to be. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.
post #28 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

Remove your phone number from iMessage. Dumb arse.

 

Not that simple. I gave my son my old iPad. I signed out from everything (FaceTime, iMessage, iCloud.. you name it). I didn't sign his Apple ID to anything. Then when I opened the iMessage app it showed my phone numbers and iCloud emails and want me to choose which one to use use for iMessage!! It didn't matter that I have signed out from iMessage in the settings. Go figure. There should be a setting in iCloud.com where you can remove your Apple ID from all iOS devices at once (iMessage and FaceTime). This is a big security issue with iMessage and if this lawsuit gets Apple to fix it them be it. This issue was reported by users more than 2 years ago.

post #29 of 178

It's a genuine problem.  A .little "Fan Fic Theatre":

Judge:  "Are there SMS messages you haven't received?"
Lady:  "Yes.  If you look on my new GS5, you see I didn't receive anything, but if you look on Joe's phone, he sent me a message."
Judge:  "Look, here.  The message Joe sent you wasn't an SMS message.  It was an iMessage.  He should have sent you an SMS instead.  Looks like your SMS messages aren't being interfered."
Lady: "But it's burdensome and onerous that my friends and family don't know how to force messages from default iMessage to SMS."
Judge:  "True, that might be anti-competitive of Apple....a sort of penalty for switching away from their services..."

Joe:  "Are you saying that my Messages app isn't working as advertised?  Maybe I should sue?"

Judge:  "Don't get carried away.  You can still send the messages, just hold down on the blue bubble message until you see an option to send it as a text message."
Joe:  "But sometimes that option doesn't pop up, especially if the message is already received by her iPad."
Judge:  "Well, turn off your iMessage and send the messages."
Joe:  "Well then I won't get messages from my iPhone friends...."
Judge:  "Hmm...  It's a conundrum to be sure..."

post #30 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post

1. She buys a the least innovative phone on the market. The galaxy s5.
2. She doesn't even google the stuff.
3. She doesn't contact Apple to remove the number
4.She doesn't restore her phone before trading it in or sign out if her iCloud/iMessage/Facetime
5. Why is she still running iOS 5?
6. Maybe her friends had her number as iPhone under contacts 1smoking.gif
7. She actually sues them.
8. She doesn't even check for a fix.

 

Because as a user when you sign out of service on your phone you don't have to do all of these things to stop the service. I expect when I go to setting and sign out of iMessage then Apple should stop showing me as an iMessage user when people send me messages (refer to my previous post #28). It is that Simple.

post #31 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrboba1 View Post


Are they the same SIM cards? I would think putting her back in an iPhone, turning off the service, them going back to her current phone that it would work based on what I understand the problem to be. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes.

SMS is a standardised protocol, it should not be the user's problem to requisition an iPhone to stop Apple from controlling their service.  If Apple are going to activate iMessage automatically when a customer adopts an iPhone, and take over their SMS (it is on by default, IIRC), then Apple should deactivate iMessage automatically when a customer adopts a phone other than an iPhone.

 

I'm firmly of the belief that good customer service isn't just treating your existing customers well, it's letting people leave easily while giving them a reason to come back.

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post #32 of 178
There are many frivolous lawsuits without any merit but this is not one of them.

Read what this guy went through.

http://adampash.com/imessage-purgatory/
post #33 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

SMS is a standardised protocol, it should not be the user's problem to requisition an iPhone to stop Apple from controlling their service.  If Apple are going to activate iMessage automatically when a customer adopts an iPhone, and take over their SMS (it is on by default, IIRC), then Apple should deactivate iMessage automatically when a customer adopts a phone other than an iPhone.

I'm firmly of the belief that good customer service isn't just treating your existing customers well, it's letting people leave easily while giving them a reason to come back.

I agree 100%

It's not the users responsibility to switch off a service that is automatically configured by Apple. If an Apple user moves to a different platform they shouldn't have to go through all this trouble to recieve something as basic as an SMS message when Apple is the one who integrated iMessages and SMS messages on their previous iPhone.
post #34 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlevier View Post

But who should have standing? Apple isn't interfering with their SMS's. The problem is with their remaining customers who have an iPhone that improperly recognizes a contact as an iMessage contact. I would think that the sender would have standing, and if you look at their options, the could simply turn off iMessage to send an SMS (or hold down on the blue coded message and select "Send as Text Message")

Or even resend the message when you get the error indicating it could not be delivered. When you do that it asks to send as SMS. When I do that, it keeps sending as SMS. I am really not sure what the issue is here. There were no "lost" messages, only inattentive senders who failed to notice big red exclamation points.
post #35 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post
 

 

Not that simple. I gave my son my old iPad. I signed out from everything (FaceTime, iMessage, iCloud.. you name it). I didn't sign his Apple ID to anything. Then when I opened the iMessage app it showed my phone numbers and iCloud emails and want me to choose which one to use use for iMessage!! It didn't matter that I have signed out from iMessage in the settings. Go figure. There should be a setting in iCloud.com where you can remove your Apple ID from all iOS devices at once (iMessage and FaceTime). This is a big security issue with iMessage and if this lawsuit gets Apple to fix it them be it. This issue was reported by users more than 2 years ago.

It's not that difficult. You should have restored your iPad to factory settings before you gave your old iPad to your son. 

post #36 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post

1. She buys a the least innovative phone on the market. The galaxy s5.
2. She doesn't even google the stuff.
3. She doesn't contact Apple to remove the number
4.She doesn't restore her phone before trading it in or sign out if her iCloud/iMessage/Facetime
5. Why is she still running iOS 5?
6. Maybe her friends had her number as iPhone under contacts 1smoking.gif
7. She actually sues them.
8. She doesn't even check for a fix.

Are you a Windows user? This is Apple, we don't have to do that kind of shit. 

post #37 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

How, if you don't have an iOS device any more?

There's definitely a problem here, and it's tied up with Apple's integration of SMS and iMessage.  If Apple are acknowledging it, and yet haven't solved it since iOS5, then a lawsuit is fair enough; they should have fixed it.

You actually need to remove your number from a different iOS device or from Apples website here:

 

https://supportprofile.apple.com

post #38 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

There are many frivolous lawsuits without any merit but this is not one of them.

Read what this guy went through.

http://adampash.com/imessage-purgatory/

 

Meh. Stick with Apple. :smokey:

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #39 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post
 

It's not that difficult. You should have restored your iPad to factory settings before you gave your old iPad to your son. 

 

Why? He is nine and using the apps I bought him. I don't want to restore just to go back and download 10GB of the same apps I deleted 30 seconds ago. Why is so difficult for you guys to understand that when you sign out of a service on your phone/PC/tablet the service should stop?! Apple messed up and they need to fix this. It is not a new problem. This was reported two years ago and they haven't done anything about it yet.

post #40 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post
 

so they filed a law suit instead of calling tech support?

Why do you assume she didn't try that?

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