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Apple sued over text messaging issues related to switching away from iPhone - Page 4

post #121 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post



The answer is easy. Just tell her friends to turn on send message as SMS when iMessage is not available.

But isn't the problem that your contacts still get a blue button to send to your phone number because that's still registered with the iMessage Server?

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post #122 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

The irreparable harm was caused by switching from iOS to Android, just as you would expect.

Would've happened switching to any other mobile OS.  The fault was with the source, not the destination.  Nice try though.

You're correct; the fault was with the source-her stupidity.

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post #123 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

I think that's a wise description of the situation. I'm an unapologetic Apple fan but I think this is very bad PR for the company. If another phone maker was doing this the howls of anguish on this forum would be unimaginable because people would suspect it was intentional. Fix is needed.

If you read some of the previous quotes you will find that it is quite easy to unregistered your device via any web browser, which then disassociates it with iMessage. It can be done AFTER you have changed phones, from any computer , on any operating system, on any web browser. So no further "fixes" are needed, it's already in place.
post #124 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighr View Post

If you read some of the previous quotes you will find that it is quite easy to unregistered your device via any web browser, which then disassociates it with iMessage. It can be done AFTER you have changed phones, from any computer , on any operating system, on any web browser. So no further "fixes" are needed, it's already in place.

Tell me how that is an obvious solution. Where does anything on Apple's site state that it will delete your phone number from the iMessage server?

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post #125 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Tell me how that is an obvious solution. Where does anything on Apple's site state that it will delete your phone number from the iMessage server?

Similarly when I tried sending a SMS message from hangouts they did not send until I found out you have to change the setting to SMS. iPhones do this automatically so you don't have to choose manually each time you send a message. I can't remember Google telling me how to do this.
post #126 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

You're correct; the fault was with the source-her stupidity.

Way to prove you have failed to read and understand the issues raised in this thread.

You do know that even when people do all the things they are "supposed" to do, it sometimes still doesn't work and they don't receive messages?
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighr View Post

If you read some of the previous quotes you will find that it is quite easy to unregistered your device via any web browser, which then disassociates it with iMessage. It can be done AFTER you have changed phones, from any computer , on any operating system, on any web browser. So no further "fixes" are needed, it's already in place.

Do you actually have any evidence that this method works? Have you ever done it yourself? Did you know about the supportprofile site before? There's plenty of evidence that even when people follow the non-obvious steps to try and extricate themselves from iMessage, that it doesn't always work. Often the only solution requires action from the person sending the message, and frankly this is not acceptable. Apple need to develop a fully automatic method that requires no intervention from message senders.
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post #127 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by leighr View Post

If you read some of the previous quotes you will find that it is quite easy to unregistered your device via any web browser, which then disassociates it with iMessage. It can be done AFTER you have changed phones, from any computer , on any operating system, on any web browser. So no further "fixes" are needed, it's already in place.

Tell me how that is an obvious solution. Where does anything on Apple's site state that it will delete your phone number from the iMessage server?

Exactly. Apple's support page on iMessage doesn't even mention it! I seriously doubt that the supportprofile route is the piece of the puzzle missed by those that are having issues.

Apple's support page on iMessage states that in order to stop being a part of iMessage, you just have to turn it off on your device. This is demonstrably not true. There is a real issue here and Apple should fix it.
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post #128 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Exactly. Apple's support page on iMessage doesn't even mention it! I seriously doubt that the supportprofile route is the piece of the puzzle missed by those that are having issues.

Apple's support page on iMessage states that in order to stop being a part of iMessage, you just have to turn it off on your device. This is demonstrably not true. There is a real issue here and Apple should fix it.

You turn it off it stops working, you do something stupid like being talked into switching and wipe your iPhone without turning it off then it's your own fault.

I switch it off when I put my SIM in my Galaxy S4 and receive SMS no problems, I switched it off when I went overseas so I didn't use data also no problem, when I got a SIM with data on it I switched it back on.

It was very convenient to receive iMessages on my Australian number using a Fijian SIM.

It's just another sucker conned by the usual second rate crap experience brought to you by Android.
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post #129 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You turn it off it stops working, you do something stupid like being talked into switching and wipe your iPhone without turning it off then it's your own fault.

I switch it off when I put my SIM in my Galaxy S4 and receive SMS no problems, I switched it off when I went overseas so I didn't use data also no problem, when I got a SIM with data on it I switched it back on.

It was very convenient to receive iMessages on my Australian number using a Fijian SIM.

It's just another sucker conned by the usual second rate crap experience brought to you by Android.

How do you know that they were conned into switching? Ms. Moore had at least a 2 week period in which she was able to return the phone that she was according to you 'conned' into buying. Instead she chose to keep the device, and find a solution to her problem of which we don't know what steps she took in a attempt to resolve them.
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post #130 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


Way to prove you have failed to read and understand the issues raised in this thread.

You do know that even when people do all the things they are "supposed" to do, it sometimes still doesn't work and they don't receive messages?
Do you actually have any evidence that this method works? Have you ever done it yourself? Did you know about the supportprofile site before? There's plenty of evidence that even when people follow the non-obvious steps to try and extricate themselves from iMessage, that it doesn't always work. Often the only solution requires action from the person sending the message, and frankly this is not acceptable. Apple need to develop a fully automatic method that requires no intervention from message senders.

 

Yes, is my role in I.T. Support at a school I've done this a couple of times for Teachers who have switched from iPhones to Android phones, and it's worked without any issues.  I agree that it may not be obvious to the non-technical, and I think I found the site by searching Apple's KB, but I guess you can't expect them to have a big banner on the front page saying "Have you bought an Android phone - here's what to do". 

post #131 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

You're correct; the fault was with the source-her stupidity.
Find me the faultless method to turn an iMessage connection to your phone number off.
Find me the clearly signposted Apple support document that tells a user that they need to do this, and how to do it.

Then you can call the user stupid.

Or, stop being a blowhard and realise that this is Apple's implementation and guidance problem.

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post #132 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


Find me the faultless method to turn an iMessage connection to your phone number off.
Find me the clearly signposted Apple support document that tells a user that they need to do this, and how to do it.

Then you can call the user stupid.

Or, stop being a blowhard and realise that this is Apple's implementation and guidance problem.

Settings>Messages

 

Not stupid enough for you?

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post #133 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


How do you know that they were conned into switching? Ms. Moore had at least a 2 week period in which she was able to return the phone that she was according to you 'conned' into buying. Instead she chose to keep the device, and find a solution to her problem of which we don't know what steps she took in a attempt to resolve them.

 

Stupid and conned into thinking her experience would be better and conned by whoever talked her into an android phone without going to settings>messages and sliding the iMessage switch to off.

 

She was too dumb to realise that wiping and selling her iPhone without taking this simplest of steps would lead to the usual second rate, shitty Android experience.

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post #134 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Stupid and conned into thinking her experience would be better and conned by whoever talked her into an android phone without going to settings>messages and sliding the iMessage switch to off.

She was too dumb to realise that wiping and selling her iPhone without taking this simplest of steps would lead to the usual second rate, shitty Android experience.

Again, how do you know she was conned? Could be that there wasn't a salesperson involved with the increasing number of people ordering online.

It's obvious that the solution isn't as simple as you suggest. That's evident with the 4-5 different suggestions I've read on here from various posters.

I have much respect for you, but your continued blaming of the victim is childish, and immature. What's done is done. Let's not harp on the why, and how but on the what can be done to remedy the problem.
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post #135 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post

Agreed and on the same note, I would love to show her in person! 1smoking.gif

But she needs a larger screen.
 
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post #136 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Settings>Messages

Not stupid enough for you?
1. Doesn't work if you no longer have an iPhone
2. Doesn't reliably work if you do have the iPhone, as evidenced by examples given
3. You didn't address the guidance issue.

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post #137 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Settings>Messages

Not stupid enough for you?

Stating that as an absolute solution on page 4 of this thread is clear evidence the solution is not understood and therefor not obvious.
Edited by SolipsismX - 5/18/14 at 10:10am

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post #138 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You turn it off it stops working...

I think you're letting the fact that she switched to an Android-based device cloud your judgement.

I just disabled iMessage on my iPhone, waited 5 minuted and then had someone send me an iMessage to my phone number. It got sent as an iMessage as expected. This shows that turning off iMessage on your iPhone does not remove the phone number as an address from your iMessage account on the iMessage server.

Of course, I also have my phone number as a valid iMessage address on my iPad and Mac so I disabled the phone number as a viable address on each of those. I already use my @me.com address as the number for sending so I didn't have to switch those other. I waited 5 minutes and had another iMessage sent to my phone number. Still the same blue Send bubble, not the green for SMS.

This is what I expect would happen because there is no reason for iMessage to automatically assume that I don't want to still use iMessage simply because my device is logged out, which could be a variety of reasons from a password change to a stolen or lost device.

It's an oversight by Apple which makes this Apple's fault. I don't think they should be sued over it but I also don't think we should irrationally vilify someone that switches to an Android-based phone even if we can't fathom that as an upward move.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #139 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

Settings>Messages

 

Not stupid enough for you?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Stupid and conned into thinking her experience would be better and conned by whoever talked her into an android phone without going to settings>messages and sliding the iMessage switch to off.

 

She was too dumb to realise that wiping and selling her iPhone without taking this simplest of steps would lead to the usual second rate, shitty Android experience.

 

It seems as if you are blind to the fact that this "method" you talk about doesn't always work 100% of the time. This has been going on for years and even if you do the proper thing sometimes it doesn't work correctly. Also this applies to anything you switch to including Windows and basic phones. There are tons of forums that go into great detail about how nothing works, some of which are on Apple's site.

 

Will Apple Ever Fix the iMessage Text-Killing Problem? - http://mashable.com/2013/09/16/imessage-problem/#:eyJzIjoiZyIsImkiOiIxMDk3ODUyMzM5MzIzNDk0OTYxMDQifQ

 

When calling people you've never met or don't know the whole story, keep in mind that the App Store Is Proof We’re In Idiocracy - http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/16/the-app-store-is-proof-were-in-idiocracy/?ncid=rss

 

The top apps in the Apple app store are a race to the bottom. 

post #140 of 178

Well this guy tried all the things in this thread  and some other options not listed and it still did not resolve his problem. 

 

http://adampash.com/how-i've-tried-to-fix-imessage/


Everything I've tried to stop my texts from disappearing into iMessage

I’ve gotten many, many helpful emails and tweets with tips for how to fix myiMessage purgatory problem (people are great). Unfortunately, I’ve already tried everything that people have suggested (so far, at least).

For the record, I still have my old iPhone, so I can easily swap the SIM card back into it and perform common fixes. Here are at least a few of the things I’ve tried:

  • Reset my Apple ID password
  • Turn off iMessage in the Settings app
  • Log out of Messages and FaceTime on all my devices
  • Text STOP to 48369
  • Remove my device from My Support Profile (https://supportprofile.apple.com/)
  •  

The phone number in question is not associated with my Apple ID anymore. If I log into my Apple account in the Messages setting, that number doesn’t show up as a send/receive option. But on the iDevices of my friends and family, that number still appears to be associated with iMessage.

If you’ve got a suggestion I haven’t listed above, let me know! I’ve tried a lot over the past week, so I’m sure there are a couple I’ve forgotten about. I’m also not including terrible solutions, like “have everyone you know delete you as a contact and re-add you” or “have everyone you know delete all previous conversations with you.” Incidentally, I’ve tried these things on Ellen’s phone and she still can’t send me a text.

Update: I was able to fix the problem on a per-phone basis by doing the following:

  1. Open Settings > Messages.
  2. Toggle iMessage to Off.
  3. Send a text to the black-hole number. (It should send as SMS.)
  4. Turn iMessage back on in Settings > Messages.

Of course, the only phone I have access to is Ellen’s, and I’m not about to ask all of my contacts to do this. At least now Ellen can text me, but that’s nothing close to a solution.

(I’ll try to update this with any new fixes worth mentioning — and hopefully, eventually, one that works.)

 
 
post #141 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighr View Post


If you read some of the previous quotes you will find that it is quite easy to unregistered your device via any web browser, which then disassociates it with iMessage. It can be done AFTER you have changed phones, from any computer , on any operating system, on any web browser. So no further "fixes" are needed, it's already in place.

leighr, if that's the case, and it's all that simple, then I wish Apple would clarify for switchers--and the world--that it's that simple.  It's not right for you to be able to explain it better than our favorite multi-billion $ company.  Seems like their PR should be more effective...

 

But thanks for clarifying things for me.

post #142 of 178
Idiotic girl. Tell her to ask her contacts go to the Contacts app and change her phone type from iPhone to mobile. Than iPhone will not send iMessages any more. That's all... Really idiotic girl.
post #143 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectionist View Post

Idiotic girl. Tell her to ask her contacts go to the Contacts app and change her phone type from iPhone to mobile. Than iPhone will not send iMessages any more. That's all... Really idiotic girl.

She's not as idiotic as your suggestion. She could very well have a thousand contacts. Having each and every one change the phone type is neither a elegant solution nor a viable one.
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post #144 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You turn it off it stops working, you do something stupid like being talked into switching and wipe your iPhone without turning it off then it's your own fault.

I switch it off when I put my SIM in my Galaxy S4 and receive SMS no problems, I switched it off when I went overseas so I didn't use data also no problem, when I got a SIM with data on it I switched it back on.

It was very convenient to receive iMessages on my Australian number using a Fijian SIM.

It's just another sucker conned by the usual second rate crap experience brought to you by Android.

I'm glad to hear it works for you. However, one of the major issues here is that the simple "turn it off on your device" method, does not always work.
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post #145 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


She's not as idiotic as your suggestion. She could very well have a thousand contacts. Having each and every one change the phone type is neither a elegant solution nor a viable one.

 

The idiot should have taken it into account before making the switch.

 

Samsung should print a warning on the box, "Using this device may screw up your messages".

 

Second rate Android experience.

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post #146 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

She's not as idiotic as your suggestion. She could very well have a thousand contacts. Having each and every one change the phone type is neither a elegant solution nor a viable one.

The idiot should have taken it into account before making the switch.

Samsung should print a warning on the box, "Using this device may screw up your messages".

Second rate Android experience.

Now this is just trolling.

Are you reading any of the replies that have been directed at you? Do you acknowledge that turning iMessage off is not always simple, elegant, or even possible without having to contact all of your contacts?

It is simply not acceptable that people should need to get their contacts to make changes in order to start receiving SMSs properly.
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post #147 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


Now this is just trolling.

Are you reading any of the replies that have been directed at you? Do you acknowledge that turning iMessage off is not always simple, elegant, or even possible without having to contact all of your contacts?

It is simply not acceptable that people should need to get their contacts to make changes in order to start receiving SMSs properly.

Why not?

 

You'd have to do that if you changed your number.

 

I don't see people suing phone companies because a port in failed.

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post #148 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The idiot should have taken it into account before making the switch.

Samsung should print a warning on the box, "Using this device may screw up your messages".

Second rate Android experience.

Why doesn’t Apple instead have the warning "We're going to hold your messages hostage if you leave"
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post #149 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

It is simply not acceptable that people should need to get their contacts to make changes in order to start receiving SMSs properly.
Why not?

You'd have to do that if you changed your number.

So? She didn't change her number. I don't think it's acceptable that iMessage should irreversibly hijack your mobile number, for a multitude of reasons including that it is anticompetitive. Tell me straight that if Android did something similar you wouldn't be ripping into Google about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I don't see people suing phone companies because a port in failed.

Irrelevant.
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post #150 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMember View Post

Seriously you think this is a big issue?
No is not but this one is

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/05/14/samsung-issues-apology-to-cancer-stricken-semiconductor-plant-workers
Samsung admits killing people, if something like this happened with Apple will be the end 
Because Foxcomm, who assembles many Apple products, is such an exemplary working environment.
post #151 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

so they filed a law suit instead of calling tech support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnash View Post

Welcome to the US of A.

Yeah cause I'm sure calling AppleCare and saying "I'm having problems getting messages on my new Samsung phone" is going to get you lots of help and support...
post #152 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You turn it off it stops working, you do something stupid like being talked into switching and wipe your iPhone without turning it off then it's your own fault.

I switch it off when I put my SIM in my Galaxy S4 and receive SMS no problems, I switched it off when I went overseas so I didn't use data also no problem, when I got a SIM with data on it I switched it back on.

It was very convenient to receive iMessages on my Australian number using a Fijian SIM.

It's just another sucker conned by the usual second rate crap experience brought to you by Android.

The article states that there was no opt-in, iMessage was automatically enabled so the user has no understanding or prompt on what to do to reset their phone before sale and not even Apple acknowledges that it's necessary.

I honestly find the über defensive "Apple can do no wrong" crowd a bit tiresome.
post #153 of 178

I've never seen so much trolling and misinformation in a single thread.

post #154 of 178
iMessages and its settings should be available for iCloud.com, to make these things simple.
post #155 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The idiot should have taken it into account before making the switch.

Samsung should print a warning on the box, "Using this device may screw up your messages".

Second rate Android experience.
As already stated, this has absolutely nothing to do with Samsung or Android. The user could have switched to literally any other phone, from any other manufacturer, with any other OS, and encountered the same problem.

Your insistence on linking this to Samsung and Android betrays your bias.

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post #156 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Why not?

You'd have to do that if you changed your number.

I don't see people suing phone companies because a port in failed.

Ok sparkles, this has nothing to do with Samsung or Android. It's a Apple issue no matter how you spin it. These are the facts.
post #157 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonX View Post

I'm glad to see that there are many intelligent posters who recognize that this is a real problem.  This is a big issue for the people affected, and it is entirely Apple's fault.  The many posters who automatically screamed "frivolous lawsuit!" or "PBKAC!" really sicken me.  

And I also agree that those same people would be screaming bloody murder if Samsung were doing this to iPhone switchers.

Yes, Apple should fix this, for a number of reasons.
Yes, of course the same would be true if Samsung were doing it to iPhone switchers. But Samsung doesn't have an app + service like iMessage that doubles as an SMS app. If anything, Samsung preinstalls 5 different apps that do same thing, rather than one app that does multiple things 1smile.gif

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post #158 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


As already stated, this has absolutely nothing to do with Samsung or Android. The user could have switched to literally any other phone, from any other manufacturer, with any other OS, and encountered the same problem.

Your insistence on linking this to Samsung and Android betrays your bias.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post


Ok sparkles, this has nothing to do with Samsung or Android. It's a Apple issue no matter how you spin it. These are the facts.
 

What's this then:-

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In her claim, Moore notes she was automatically opted-in to use iMessage when her iPhone 4 updated to iOS 5. When she later traded in that device for a Galaxy S5 in April, iMessage continued to send text messages originating from other iPhone users to the now deactivated Apple smartphone without forwarding them to the Samsung handset. Senders are not notified that their message was not forwarded, leaving both parties in the lurch.
 

 

Maybe the people who "traded in" the phone should have helped her disable it, after all a "traded in" iPhone is useless unless it is unlinked from iCloud and find my iPhone is switched off.


Edited by hill60 - 5/19/14 at 8:04am
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #159 of 178
I have no sympathy for this lady. iMessage is a proprietary service. There is no obligation on Apple's part whatsoever to make life easy for people who wish to move their iMessages to another platform. She could have simply used SMS if she wanted to be sure that she could change to another platform with no issues. There was no need for her to use iMessages; it was her choice to.

Does she expect all her iOS apps to work on Android, too?
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #160 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I have no sympathy for this lady. iMessage is a proprietary service. There is no obligation on Apple's part whatsoever to make life easy for people who wish to move their iMessages to another platform. She could have simply used SMS if she wanted to be sure that she could change to another platform with no issues. There was no need for her to use iMessages; it was her choice to.

Does she expect all her iOS apps to work on Android, too?

SHE WAS NOT TRYING TO MOVE iMESSAGES TO ANOTHER PLATFORM. SHE WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO GET THE iMESSAGE SERVER TO RELEASE HER PHONE NUMBER SO THAT iPHONES COULD SEND AN SMS TO HER NON-iOS DEVICE.

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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