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Japanese court rules Samsung abused FRAND patents against Apple

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Apple made legal progress in its battle with Samsung over patents in Japan this week when the Tokyo District Court ruled that Samsung had indeed illegally abused its Standards Essential Patents to demand a sales ban and excessive royalties against the iPhone maker.

Samsung copies


Samsung had sought to use its patents related to the 3GPP mobile standard to win significant royalties against Apple, in addition to an injunction against sales of iPhone 4, in a Japanese case similar to the one the South Korean firm brought against Apple via the U.S. International Trade Commission (a case that was vetoed by the Obama Administration).

In Europe, Samsung was similarly blocked from seeking sales bans against competitors in cases that involved a Standards Essential Patent (SEP) following an E.U. investigation into the company's behavior.

In Japan, Samsung's parallel efforts to leverage a patent obtained during the development of open standards and then weaponize it against its competitors has now been shot down in a major policy ruling on the abuse of SEPs in that country.

Samsung's anticompetitive patent abuse, in three ways



Last year, Japanese courts found Samsung had abused SEPs in three ways. First, by failing to honor its duty under Japanese Civil Code to negotiate with licensees in good faith, given that its SEPs were created under a commitment to offer other firms licensing under Fair, Reasonable and Non Discriminatory (FRAND) terms.

Second, the court determined that Samsung had declared its "E-bit patent" to be essential to practicing the 3GPP mobile standard, but then subsequently attempted to win a preliminary sales injunction against Apple with that patent. Courts worldwide have recognized that sales bans are in inappropriate remedy in SEP cases where the two parties are simply negotiating a FRAND license.

Third, the court found that Samsung did not disclose its E-bit patent to the ETSI standards body until about two years after its 3GPP working group adopted the "invention" claimed by Samsung in its patent as part of its standard that any phone manufacturer would have to license in order to make a functional device.

Apple wins again in landmark Japanese decision



Following the original decision, Japan's court of appeals convened a "Grand Panel" to hear the case, which involved two hearings and called for public comment. A total of 58 amicus briefs were submitted for the court to consider, which the court described as "valuable and informative" in making its ruling.

The court agreed that Samsung had no right to demand a sales injunction, and struck down company's efforts to win "excess royalty" against Apple, ruling instead to cap Samsung's licensing demand to 9.9 million Yen ($95,000 U.S.) for the patent, which is inline with what Apple had expected to pay as a FRAND licensee."Samsung has recklessly ignored intellectual property rights around the world" - Apple

Apple's Japanese subsidiary released a comment on the ruling, which stated (via machine translation):

'We offer high praise that the court took the corresponding actions [against] Samsung [and] was resolute to try to protect the integrity of the international patent system. In an attempt to convince the court that the patent is not an issue, Samsung has recklessly ignored intellectual property rights around the world.'

Outside of the U.S., E.U. and Japan, Samsung has been successfully backed by one country's antitrust authority in its practice of leveraging SEPs against competitors: the South Korea Fair Trade Commission, which issued a ruling in February that protected Samsung from a complaint filed by Apple.
post #2 of 36

YES.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #3 of 36
I hope Sammy enjoyed their ride%u2026because they're finally being exposed for the Scumsung that they are.
post #4 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

YES.
Hear hear! *clinks glass*
post #5 of 36
Quote:
South Korea Fair Trade Commission, which issued a ruling in February that protected Samsung from a complaint filed by Apple. 

 

Why aren't I surprised?

post #6 of 36
It is a 'no brainer' to realize that Samsung ripped off Apple and created iPhone and iPad knock-offs. They were aided and abetted by fellow criminal conspirator Google.
post #7 of 36

There are still legions in denial believing that Motorola and Samsung are going to win cases and set precedents via FRAND abuse. For that matter they deny any abuse to start with. 

post #8 of 36
Why doesn't Samsung just give up and cut it's losses? They haven't really won anything to date. At some point they'd have to realize they're never going to win no matter where they are.
post #9 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Why doesn't Samsung just give up and cut it's losses? They haven't really won anything to date. At some point they'd have to realize they're never going to win no matter where they are.


So long as Samsung is making tens of billions of dollars infringing on the IP of others, and knowing they will get fined what?  A billion dollars??  That's just an expense on their P&L.  The cost of doing business.

There was an article posted from Vanity Fair not too long about detailing how Samsung's corporate atmosphere is based off of ripping people off and dealing with it later... if at all.  Shameful company, with a convict as the chairman, bribing the SK government.  Shameful.

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2014/06/apple-samsung-smartphone-patent-war

post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Why doesn't Samsung just give up and cut it's losses? They haven't really won anything to date. At some point they'd have to realize they're never going to win no matter where they are.

 

It seems that winning in court was never their goal. That Vanity Fair article that someone posted a link to a few threads back did a good job explaining their strategy. The lawsuits and appeals process takes so long, and Samsung is so deep pocketed, that they're basically telling Apple, sue us; even if you win, we still got away with it, and all you can ask for is damages in arrears, and even then we can whittle that down in appeals. The one thing civil juries cannot do is tack on a sufficiently high punitive component to the amount owed to discourage recidivism. So Samsung is getting away with it, in the end; it just cost them a little more than zero dollars to copy.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Why doesn't Samsung just give up and cut it's losses?

What do you mean? Where has Samsung has been the plaintiff? As the defendant it behooves them to fight back and to continue to profit off the IP of others.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by dequardo View Post

Wake me up if DED ever writes a balanced article.

...This is NOT an article. It's news.

Or is reality too unbalanced for you?
post #13 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

YES.

But wait, you have yet to have Gatorguy educate you on why this is an incorrect ruling.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #14 of 36
Another country says "frak you" to Sammy. There has to be some real and meaningful punishment for Sammy's actions.
post #15 of 36

Don't forget the article from Mic Wright (kernelmag.com) "Samsung: power, corruption and lies", posted here by @Steve Constance who started a thread but didn't get any reactions on it. Since the Kernel is in makeover mode, I posted the article there, if that's ok with AI(?)
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
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How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
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post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Wow. I always read bits and pieces and have some opinion about Samsung's business ethics, but reading this article takes this to a new level. Thanks for the link.

So long as Samsung is making tens of billions of dollars infringing on the IP of others, and knowing they will get fined what?  A billion dollars??  That's just an expense on their P&L.  The cost of doing business.


There was an article posted from Vanity Fair not too long about detailing how Samsung's corporate atmosphere is based off of ripping people off and dealing with it later... if at all.  Shameful company, with a convict as the chairman, bribing the SK government.  Shameful.

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2014/06/apple-samsung-smartphone-patent-war
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #17 of 36
Confused, as I understand from this Apple didn't pay the FRAND licensing fee. Shame on you Apple!
post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaba View Post

Confused, as I understand from this Apple didn't pay the FRAND licensing fee. Shame on you Apple!
The article isn't particularly clear about why this is, but since Apple won the case the suggestion is that Samsung were trying to leverage the SEP to get a higher royalty rate from Apple, which would violate the "non-discriminatory" part of FRAND.

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post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaba View Post

Confused, as I understand from this Apple didn't pay the FRAND licensing fee. Shame on you Apple!

The judge just capped the FRAND fee at the equivalent of $95,000. That was just decided this week. Samsung had been asking for payment that was not FRAND at all. So now Apple will gladly pay the reasonable rate set by the court. Did you even read the article?
post #20 of 36
This is bullshit Japanese court. I don't agree with the samsung company. The South Korea Samsung company is bullshit.
post #21 of 36
@zaba: This is FRAND negotiations, say company A owns a patent and company B wants/has to use it, the latter requests to negotiate the costs of adapting it. B will most likely have a reasonable notion of the sum as, say 100,000 USD. If A then demands 5 billion, B will certainly think this is way out inappropriate and unfair. This situation will not leave B the option of paying the 100,000 as A would not accept it. Is this so hard to understand? Apple has NEVER had the fair choice to redeem itself and has had no other option than to go ahead and use it anyway and let the courts decide. Why don't you stop your stupid babbling?
post #22 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Another country says "frak you" to Sammy. There has to be some real and meaningful punishment for Sammy's actions.

"Ahem" 1hmm.gif
post #23 of 36
We all should boycott Samsung and Google...shame on these two corporate pigs...I don't think it is a matter of S Korean or US...it is a simple matter of being a piece of scumbag behavior by both of these jerks.
post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

But wait, you have yet to have Gatorguy educate you on why this is an incorrect ruling.

It was an incorrect ruling? In what way?


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melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by dequardo View Post

Wake me up if DED ever writes a balanced article.

This is not an opinion piece. He is reporting fact.

NOTICE: While every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information supplied herein, fahlman cannot be held responsible for any errors or omissions. Unless otherwise indicated,...
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NOTICE: While every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information supplied herein, fahlman cannot be held responsible for any errors or omissions. Unless otherwise indicated,...
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post #26 of 36
So why is Apple still using components from Samsung? Why haven't they replace Samsung? They should be doing everything they can to get components elsewhere.
post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpo344 View Post

So why is Apple still using components from Samsung? Why haven't they replace Samsung? They should be doing everything they can to get components elsewhere.
That's all well and good, as long as decent components are available in bulk elsewhere. Problem is, despite being a scuzzy company when it come to designing and selling consumer products, Samsung is pretty much peerless at volume manufacturing at the high end of semiconductor engineering. They're really good at it.

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post #28 of 36
Samsung is well known for ripping off companies' IP then using delay delay and delay in the courts when sued by others until the court cases become meaningless while it makes billions and crushes its competitors. Apple is just bigger than Sony and others that Samsung has fought. But even then, Samsung walks happily to the bank since violating other people's rights means very little to them while making tons of money does. Samsung does not mean creativity or even innovation. It means evil copyist.
post #29 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpo344 View Post

So why is Apple still using components from Samsung? Why haven't they replace Samsung? They should be doing everything they can to get components elsewhere.

Because Samsung is the only company in the world that has the best manufacturing while creating the highest yields in the fastest possible time. No one can come close to them. So if Apple started using other components the quality that we love about our Apple products would suffer and there would be way more issues. 

 

Remember, Samsung Mobile is a separate company and is only under the same umbrella.

post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


Don't forget the article from Mic Wright (kernelmag.com) "Samsung: power, corruption and lies", posted here by @Steve Constance who started a thread but didn't get any reactions on it. Since the Kernel is in makeover mode, I posted the article there, if that's ok with AI(?)

 

Thanks for posting. That is definitely a "glimpse behind the curtain" of Samsung (and chaebols in general) which Westerners don't normally see. It is unfortunate for that country that the chaebols have institutionalized familial cronyism and disproportionate political influence. 

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

YES.

 

I know, I hate animated GIFs too, but gotta post this for the occasion:

 

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaba View Post

Confused, as I understand from this Apple didn't pay the FRAND licensing fee. Shame on you Apple!

 

Samsung may be attempting to double-dip, so that needs to be determined first. They certainly have attempted to do so before. In other words, the patent(s) they may be attempting to collect royalties on from Apple may be covered by Apple's suppliers when the components were initially purchased (such as radio chipsets from Qualcomm, etc.)

 

If there is yet something that is not covered by royalties already paid, then Samsung needs to accept terms from Apple that are in line with what all others are paying (Fair and Non-Discriminatory). That is usually in the region of a few dollars at most, not some large percentage of the iPhone's total retail value of $650, as Samsung was attempting at one point! ...Samsung basically admitted they were holding the iPhone hostage when seeking injunction against sales (which they are not allowed to seek for FRAND patents, but repeatedly do; and which Apple may seek for IP infringement). Samsung essentially says:

 

"It doesn't matter how small a part of the mobile SEP technologies that our patent(s) represent, nor what anyone else has contributed to the standard; and we don't know and don't care how Apple went about creating and producing their phone; all that matters is that we believe Apple could not have created a phone without our patented technology; so, we will use this declaration as a counter-measure when Apple sues us for IP infringement whatever the courts around the world say about SEP and FRAND patents!"

 

Since everything Samsung does flies in the face of reality, logic and world opinion, they should really just pack up and move north of the border and be done with it. They have the mentality to be right at home there.


Edited by krabbelen - 5/19/14 at 12:07am
post #33 of 36
post #34 of 36

The best way to deal with Samscum is to boycott there products. Power to the consumer. And Apple would have paid the Frand if Samscum would have dealt fairly and asked for reasonable royalties which they did NOT! That's why they went to court so now Apple will pay them what the court has decided as reasonable royalties for the Frand and Apple agreed to that. That's what Apple would have done in the first place if Samscum wasn't who they are, scum!

post #35 of 36
The samsung are very dumb South Koreans because they did to stealing everything from America's things. I am will get my weapon and to point samsung company nose. I am not going to buy any samsung products no more. My next TVs is sony or Panasonic
post #36 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDuck View Post
 

Proof this awful company has NO class:

 

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/05/samsung-to-rename-heathrows-terminal-5-to-terminal-samsung-galaxy-s5/

 

Well, looks like the update states that the terminal will not be renamed, which is a relief.

 

Imagine how many cabs I will miss if I say 'Take me to Samsung Galaxy S5 terminal'. I'll watch them driving off, shaking their heads, muttering 'ruddy foreigner'!

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