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Samsung says it 'leads by following,' admits few businesses are actually using Knox

post #1 of 78
Thread Starter 
Speaking to analysts and investors, a senior vice president of Samsung stated "we, as a market leader, are following the market trend" in adding biosensors to mobile devices, while sidestepping the company's delay in 64-bits and the moribund 2 percent adoption of Knox by enterprise users.



Leadership seven months behind the trend



Samsung executive Rhee In-jong, cited in a report by the Wall Street Journal, began by addressing the subject of biometric sensors.

Rather than focusing attention on Apple's Touch ID, the only functional biometric sensor to ever gain widespread adoption in a high volume product introduction, or dwell on the fact that Samsung was only able to bring its own fingerprint sensor to market seven months later in a form widely panned by critics as not as reliable, secure or easy to use, Rhee focused on a possible future involving iris scanners.



"We're looking at various types of biometric [mechanisms] and one of things that everybody is looking at is iris detection," Rhee stated, before delivering the line about leadership by following.

Rhee suggested that iris scanning would someday become available "even in low-end smartphone models," the Wall Street Journal report noted, but acknowledged that new types of sensors "will likely be available for adoption in high-end phones first."

The vast majority of Apple's iPhone sales have always been its highest end, newest model. Estimates indicate that about three fifths of Apple's 51 million iPhones sold over the winter quarter were iPhone 5s, meaning about 31.9 million iPhones shipped with Touch ID.

In stark contrast, only about a third of Samsung's phones are iPhone-class, premium models. And none of the 9 million Galaxy S4 models the company shipped alongside iPhone 5s last winter included fingerprint scanning as a feature.

It wasn't until April that Samsung was able to deliver its Galaxy 5S with a similar fingerprint scanning feature, but reaction to the new model has been less than enthusiastic.



Samsung's 64-bit issue



Neither Rhee nor the Wall Street Journal made any mention of the fact that Samsung's leading-by-following is even further behind in the area of adopting modern ARM 64-bit ABIs in its Application Processor design.

Samsung previously worked to sidestep that issue in November when it told its investors that it planned to copy Apple's A7 at some point, but didn't yet have a precise timeline for doing so yet.

Dr. Namsung Stephen Woo, president of Samsung's System LSI, alluded to Apple's 64-bit A7 Application Processor used in iPhone 5s and iPad Air, saying "many people were thinking 'why do we need 64-bit for mobile devices?' People were asking that question until three months ago, and now I think nobody is asking that question. Now people are asking 'when can we have that? And will software run correctly on time?'"

Woo told his audience, "let me just tell you, we are... we have planned for it, we are marching on schedule. We will offer the first 64-bit AP based on ARM's own core [reference design]. For the second product after that we will offer even more optimized 64-bit based on our own optimization."

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Echoing Rhee's "leadership-by-following" line, Woo added, "so we are marching ahead with the 64-bit offering, and even though it's a little too early, I think we are at the leader group in terms of 64-bit offerings."" I think we are at the leader group in terms of 64-bit offerings" -Samsung System LSI president Stephen Woo

Unlike the detailed roadmap charts Samsung presented for extremely high resolution mobile displays and rapidly increasing camera sensor pixel density releases over the next two years, Woo did not offer any other details about Samsung's 64-bit AP plans, despite acknowledging that such sensors and cameras necessitated vastly greater processing power.

Woo also offered no comment on how Samsung planned to support existing software on its future 64-bit offerings, nor even whether such a chip would get custom Android support or use Samsung's own Tizen or some other operating system.

Woo also didn't outline any novel uses of 64-bit computing comparable to the applications Apple launched for the iPhone 5s, which included advanced video game graphics, enhanced audio and video processing apps like Garage Band and iMovie, and Touch ID processing and secure storage.

Terminal S5



Rather than dwelling on 64-bits or Touch ID, Samsung has focused on marketing the Galaxy S5 brand, including a two week sponsorship of London's Heathrow Terminal 5, a program Samsung called a "rebranding" of the terminal in a press release that claimed it was "the first time Heathrow has permitted a brand takeover of Terminal 5."

The airport itself subsequently issued a statement to iMore clarifying "Heathrow Terminal 5's signage and passenger wayfinding has not changed."

Instead, the facility said "Samsung have rented advertising space in Terminal 5 with a tongue-in-cheek campaign using using the line: 'Terminal Samsung Galaxy S5'."

Somewhat ironically, the ad program portrayed the new phone from the back, featuring its highly criticized plastic construction rather than the biometric sensor Samsung included on the front in a configuration following as closely as possible to the "market trend" established by iPhone 5s.

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Another issue Rhee addressed in speaking to analysts and investors was the uptake of Knox, Samsung's solution for businesses concerned about the lack of security inherent in Android devices.

Samsung Knox


Apple has detailed how it "designed the iOS platform with security at its core."

In contrast, Google's Android chief Sundar Pichai has admitted that Android was expressly designed for open, hobbyist freedom, rather than enterprise users with needs for security.

To sell its phones to enterprise users, a market where Apple's iOS continues to dominate with 72 percent of devices and 93 percent of custom enterprise apps, Samsung licensed Knox.

However, Rhee noted that while the company has delivered 87 million devices embedded with Knox, only 1.8 million of those are actively using Knox.

"That's just a fraction of what has been distributed to the market," the Wall Street Journal noted. Specifically, that fraction would be about 1/50, or 2 percent.

"Rhee said he hopes that demand for Samsung's Knox system will 'trickle down' to other industry players, once the company has won enough certification and orders from the regulated industries. He declined to comment on how many paid customers the company has won so far with its Knox system," the report stated.

Shortly after Knox was introduced on the Galaxy Note 3 last fall, Mordechai Guri, a researcher at Ben-Gurion University's Cyber Security Lab described a vulnerability that he detailed would "would allow a hacker to 'easily intercept' secure data of a user of a Knox-enabled Galaxy smartphone."

In a worst-case scenario, Guri stated, "a hacker could modify data and even insert hostile code that could run amok within the secured network."

Six months later, the Wall Street Journal described the issue as "a possible security gap" and said that Samsung had "clarified" that the issue "is not specific to Samsung devices."

Samsung is working hard to sell Knox-enabled Galaxy devices to the U.S. Department of Defense and other high security clients, a market Apple has rapidly won away from BlackBerry.
post #2 of 78

Leads By Following?

 

That has to be a mistranslation, right?

 

I don't know for sure though, my whole strategy with new languages in school was to 'pass by failing'.

post #3 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 
Samsung Knox

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 

Samsung had "clarified" that the issue "is not specific to Samsung devices."

 


That doesn't strike me as a very good PR response to a major security issue.

Looks like the Samsung devices need to move to the other side of the line.

 


Edited by jinglesthula - 5/19/14 at 1:36pm
post #4 of 78

What?  Leads-by-following?  What does that mean?

In Apple-cult world it is read as Samsung leads [in,by] following Apple.

post #5 of 78

Leading-by-following, innovating-by-copying, telling the truth-by-lying, .... all the same to these folks.

post #6 of 78
I guess "leads by following", as crazy as it sounds, is better than "leads by copying".
post #7 of 78
Actually what Samsung is saying that ever attempt they made to innovate by being a leader has failed so the only way to lead now is by following what is successful by others.

Wall Street loves this stuff, why because they know that Samsung is copy what works, and see massive amount of their garbage and claim the all important market share with no profits. I think Wall Street was becoming concerns that Samsung would keep coming up with bad ideals and fail to sell more products at a loss verse selling less product at a loss.
post #8 of 78

Do these Samsung crackheads say this nonsense with a straight face?  I mean really?  They lead by "following market trends"?? Uhm... no... they lead by copying everyone else's stuff.  They're the leader in "64-bit offerings"?  Really?? Where is it??

I know analysts are pretty much useless, and dumber than dirt, but why aren't any of them nailing Samsung for specific clarification and calling them out on their flat-out lying?

It's like Samsung can say their breeding unicorns, and the market-watchers just say "oh, okay".  


Edited by sflocal - 5/19/14 at 2:06pm
post #9 of 78
Apple loyalists should want Samsung to have a strong presence in the smartphone and tablet markets. Decent competition keeps innovation high and prices low(er).

Apple's device share in enterprise is impressive. I just wish they'd turn iWork into a real office productivity competitor to MS Office. The current offering doesn't cut it for those that need a serious office package. Then so many more could cut the laptop cable and go primarily iPad/iPhone.
post #10 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

Leading-by-following, innovating-by-copying, telling the truth-by-lying, .... all the same to these folks.

 

I don't know, I found the blatant honesty of the following statement to be refreshing. "Samsung previously worked to sidestep that issue in November when it told its investors that it planned to copy Apple's A7 at some point ..."

 

Emphasis mine. Everyone knows that they simply copy Apple's stuff, I guess now that they aren't even denying it.

post #11 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post
 

Do these Samsung crackheads say this nonsense with a straight face?  I mean really?  They lead by "following market trends"?? Uhm... no... they lead by copying everyone else's stuff.  They're the leader in "64-bit offerings"?  Really?? Where is it??

I know analysts are pretty much useless, and dumber than dirt, but why aren't any of them nailing Samsung for specific clarification and calling them out on their flat-out lying?

It's like Samsung can say their breeding unicorns, and the market-wathchers just say "oh, okay".  

 

 

Okay I have not read the actually report, and I know AI has a habit of changing the words to fit their story,

 

however, Samsung said they are "leading the group" when it comes to 64bit offering in the mobile space. So the question who is in the group, Apple of course, Intel? maybe, Qualcomm for sure? is there someone else. To be in the leader group then they have to be at least ahead of Intel and Qualcomm to not be lying, but we know Samsung has no problem lying.

post #12 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atashi View Post
 

Leads By Following?

 

That has to be a mistranslation, right?

 

yeah it's very peculiar....

post #13 of 78
I think he meant, "Samsung is the leader in following. Nobody follows as well as we do at Samsung. We are the #1 follower." Lol!
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post #14 of 78

Forward into the past!

post #15 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atashi View Post

Leads By Following?

That has to be a mistranslation, right?

From the original English, yes. 1wink.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #16 of 78
"Terminal Samsung Galaxy S5"

That's really unfortunate. Describing your flagship device as being "terminal", as in terminally ill.
post #17 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We're looking at various types of biometric [mechanisms] and one of things that everybody is looking at is iris detection," Rhee stated, before delivering the line about leadership by following.

Looking at iris detection. funny!

 

Why would anyone trust Knox? Samsung just doesn't have the rep.

post #18 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by wubbus View Post

I just wish they'd turn iWork into a real office productivity competitor to MS Office. The current offering doesn't cut it for those that need a serious office package. Then so many more could cut the laptop cable and go primarily iPad/iPhone.

 

Yes, but Apple still wants people to buy Macs. Too bad that the Mac version of iWork is held up by the web and mobile versions. They are trying to maintain feature parity across all three platforms, and progress is therefore very slow.

post #19 of 78
Quote:
Rhee... acknowledged that new types of sensors "will likely be available for adoption in high-end phones first." 

 

I.e., Apple will have available first, and Sammy's low-end phones will follow. Thus leading.

post #20 of 78

Yes, they are first to be second

post #21 of 78
Does Samsung lead anything but marketshare?
post #22 of 78
Quote:
Trust us Samsung will soon be much more betterer than anyone. Ever. We win by losing, we love by hating, we innovate by stealing.

-Stephen Woo


Terminal Samsung?, they must be joking... from Apple's dictionary app...

(of a disease) predicted to lead to death, especially slowly; incurable: terminal cancer.
• [ attrib. ] suffering from or relating to a terminal disease: a hospice for terminal cases.
• [ attrib. ] (of a condition) forming the last stage of a terminal disease.
• informal extreme and usually beyond cure or alteration (used for emphasis): an industry in terminal decline | you're making a terminal ass of yourself.
Edited by AnalogJack - 5/19/14 at 2:36pm
post #23 of 78

That's a brilliant quote. :lol:

post #24 of 78
Google and Samsung love to talk about pie-in-the-sky shit, what they're "thinking" of doing, etc. Iris scanner? What the **** is the point of talking about that, if you can't get it in a shipping product? Maybe they should try to put out a fingerprint sensor worth a damn before they think about iris scanning? Going by their biometric track-record, the fact that they're already talking about this shit is laughable. What a pathetic company. Noone gives a **** about your dreams Samsung- the only think that matters is what you can execute, which so far as been an utter fail.
post #25 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

I think he meant, "Samsung is the leader in following. Nobody follows as well as we do at Samsung. We are the #1 follower." Lol!

That is actually a very good description. Samsung has been described as a "fast follower." That's either faint praise or an insult depending on what you believe.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #26 of 78
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Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

Yes, but Apple still wants people to buy Macs. Too bad that the Mac version of iWork is held up by the web and mobile versions. They are trying to maintain feature parity across all three platforms, and progress is therefore very slow.

No, that's not "too bad" at all. Its called forward thinking. Feature parity is much, much more important and useful to most feature than having some niche features that hardly anyone uses on one platform, in order to break compatibility and parity. IWork is getting more powerful with every update, and for the VAST majority of people its more than powerful enough. Revamping it in a way where editing a document from a mac, the web, iPad or iPhone was genius and necessary.
post #27 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by wubbus View Post

Apple loyalists should want Samsung to have a strong presence in the smartphone and tablet markets. Decent competition keeps innovation high and prices low(er).

Has Apple ever price-matched the competition? Or done the BOGO deals because their competitors do?

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post #28 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by wubbus View Post

Apple loyalists should want Samsung to have a strong presence in the smartphone and tablet markets. Decent competition keeps innovation high and prices low(er).

 

Ah yes, the old "We should be grateful for Samsung's unoriginal, stealing ways because competition is good and stuff" argument.

 

Sorry, no.

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post #29 of 78

Leading by following is a classic Bizarro World-concept.  I'd seen Bizarro Superman use it many times.  Everything is the exact opposite to the normal world.  In a way, Samsung is an imperfect duplicate of Apple, so in some twisted and distorted way what Samsung is saying makes complete sense if you live on Htrae, the Bizarro homeworld.

post #30 of 78

“We, as a market leader, are following the market trend..."

 

Wow. That's an unfortunate line on which to be quoted.

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post #31 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHotFuzz View Post

Ah yes, the old "We should be grateful for Samsung's unoriginal, stealing ways because competition is good and stuff" argument.

Sorry, no.

Yeah, there are two ways to compete:
1. Innovate, which leads to major disruption
2. Copy, which leads to (so the theory goes) lower prices

The unfunny thing is that when people like @wubbus advocate the lower prices supposedly created by "competition" they aren't referring to competition from disruptive innovation; what they really want is all of the iPhone features in a cheaper iPhone knock-off.

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post #32 of 78

Samsung has another problem regarding this whole 64 Bit story, which I'm sure they'll be keeping as quiet as possible. At the end of the day this is a numbers game for them. Real benefit to the user is not of their concern, simply to release bigger and better numbers, more megapixels, greater pixel density, etc with every year's phone.

 

While they might be able to build their own 64 bit ARM chip and get a 64 Bit Android Kernel onto their phones, this will only affect the kernel itself, system programs and NDK applications, such as most games. They are completely reliant on Google to actually get a 64 Bit version of the Dalvik VM onto their phones, which must also be compatible with Google Play and whatnot. Without this, most applications will simply continue running in a 32 Bit environment.

post #33 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Samsung previously worked to sidestep that issue in November when it told its investors that it planned to copy Apple's A7 at some point, but didn't yet have a precise timeline for doing so yet.
DED I also don't particularly like Samsung, and they definitely are very capable of copying, but what you state here is not correct.

By the time Apple's A7 launched it was already known for a couple of years that 64bit mobile SoC's were in the pipelines. ARM themselves in 2012 estimated the start of the production to be first quarter of 2014. When ARMv8 was launched pretty much every large chip designer/maker licensed it. Samsung was also rumored to use the architecture in its server chips (a rumor that appeared way before the A7).

Apple finished first and they deserve a lot of credit for that, it was quite a feat. But to say everyone who has a 64bit SoC now copies Apple is beyond ridiculous. 64bit SoC's were expected in 2014 with or without a 64bit A7.

Here is f.e. an article of The Verge from 2012 discussing ARM's new 64bit architectures and also mentions the expected 2014 release date. It even mentions Samsung as a partner.
http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/10/30/3576560/arm-cortex-a57-cortex-a53-cpu-core
Edited by Chipsy - 5/19/14 at 4:39pm
post #34 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atashi View Post

Leads By Following?

That has to be a mistranslation, right?

It's an Asian thing. For example, during WWII the Japanese soldier was not allowed to retreat. However, they could do a 180* and advance. Totally two different things.

In the case of Leading by Following, Samsung is saying whatever Apple does, Samsung will be hard on Apple's ass. As opposed to Microsoft coming along 10 to 12 years later. See? Totally two different things.
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post #35 of 78
There is a leader. Not a leader group.

In the words of highlander, "there can be only one"

And either you lead or you follow.

If you follow, you are automatically not leading.

Samsung can't even be honest when it admits something sheesh.

I suppose next they'll claim to "innovate by plagiarism"
post #36 of 78
Samsung used to follow by following , Nokia slide phones, Blackberry QWERTY phones, Motorola flip phones, what changed was Apple disrupting the leaders, paving the way for Samsung to now "lead by following".
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post #37 of 78
Apple's Touch ID is a waste -- something I never would use and have not used, but yet I have it. No interest in biometrics, and I used to LOVE that Apple never got into them, until Steve Jobs passed -- coincidence?

Now something I am still longing for is Nextel Direct Connect Walkie Talkie functionality from Apple with a dedicated yet programmable side button is something we still do not see, but would be HUGELY useful, esp. for business.
post #38 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by wubbus View Post

Apple loyalists should want Samsung to have a strong presence in the smartphone and tablet markets. Decent competition keeps innovation high and prices low(er).

Apple's device share in enterprise is impressive. I just wish they'd turn iWork into a real office productivity competitor to MS Office. The current offering doesn't cut it for those that need a serious office package. Then so many more could cut the laptop cable and go primarily iPad/iPhone.

 

This has never panned out with Apple. Nothing Apple has ever created was based upon a perceive competition in hardware between OEMs. Not one goddamn product. Apple has always carved its own niche, rightly or wrongly.

 

Apple didn't make the iPod because they felt prior individuals who entered first were going to beat them to a pot of gold from consumers. Steve didn't see a viable ecosystem until all the pieces were available to him and the team. That includes manufacturing in all facets, software and the tied in relationships to make it a viable n-tier solution.

post #39 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

Apple's Touch ID is a waste -- something I never would use and have not used, but yet I have it. No interest in biometrics, and I used to LOVE that Apple never got into them, until Steve Jobs passed -- coincidence?

Now something I am still longing for is Nextel Direct Connect Walkie Talkie functionality from Apple with a dedicated yet programmable side button is something we still do not see, but would be HUGELY useful, esp. for business.
Actually, in the Apple 2 era, there were biometrics. Was a pain.

But the new setup is pure awesome. And only to get better with time.

It's now "feasible" whereas before the tech wasn't quite ready.

It seems the walkie talkie thing may be destined to lie in the past with Ericsson devices.

Doubt there's much demand.
post #40 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipsy View Post

DED I also don't particularly like Samsung, and they definitely are very capable of copying, but what you state here is not correct.

By the time Apple's A7 launched it was already known for a couple of years that 64bit mobile SoC's were in the pipelines. Qualcomm themselves in 2012 estimated the start of the production to be first quarter of 2014. When ARMv8 was launched pretty much every large chip designer/maker licensed it. Samsung was also rumored to use the architecture in its server chips (a rumor that appeared way before the A7).

Apple finished first and they deserve a lot of credit for that, it was quite a feat. But to say everyone who has a 64bit SoC now copies Apple is beyond ridiculous. 64bit SoC's were expected in 2014 with or without a 64bit A7.

Here is f.e. an article of The Verge from 2012 discussing ARM's new 64bit architectures and also mentions the expected 2014 release date. It even mentions Samsung as a partner.
http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/10/30/3576560/arm-cortex-a57-cortex-a53-cpu-core

Apple on the market in 2013.

Samsung et al have launched their flagships, crickets are chirping, the clock is ticking, "early 2014" is almost over and where are these mythical chips?

Stick to reality not what might be.
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