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Apple says it's willing to settle, but inflammatory comments from Samsung suggest it isn't

post #1 of 89
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While Apple and Samsung are said to once again be in talks to settle their ongoing patent disputes, Apple has said that comments from Samsung's lawyers portraying the iPhone maker as "jihadist" suggest that such talks might just be a waste of time.




In new court filings, Apple's attorneys argue that the company has "always been willing" to participate in settlement talks that would bring to an end the worldwide litigation between it and Samsung. The documents reveal that Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook and other senior executives at the company have devoted five days in an attempt to reach a settlement.

But Apple's attorneys openly question whether settlement talks are a waste of time, as they believe Samsung may have zero interest in actually reaching a settlement.
Apple believes comments from a Samsung attorney calling the iPhone maker "jihadist" aren't productive for initiating settlement talks.
As evidence of this, Apple's legal team cites two stories in which key Samsung lawyer John Quinn made inflammatory remarks about Apple and its intentions.

In one quote, Quinn says that "it's kind of hard to talk settlement with a jihadist." Apple's attorneys said comments like this are unlikely to signal a "fruitful return to mediation."

In another story, Quinn is quoted as saying that he believes Apple will not see any money from Samsung in its litigation. He also dismissed earlier verdicts against Samsung, saying that Apple hadn't "collected a penny" or managed to take any products off of the market.

"This is Apple's Vietnam, and people are sick of it," Quinn was quoted as saying in a March interview with Law360.

As such, Apple is concerned as to whether Samsung is in fact "genuinely interested" in pursuing a settlement. Apple says it would rather settle than continue in the courtroom, as long as an agreement would recognize and protect the company's intellectual property.

"Apple remains concerned that despite protestations to the contrary, Samsung has adopted a business model that prohibits early or even timely resolution of any dispute involving intellectual property infringement," Apple's filing reads.

Apple vs Samsung


It goes on to state that comments from Samsung's attorneys suggest the company believes that existing judgments will not withstand appeal. Apple suggests that the comments from Samsung indicate it has no interest in settling, as it believes it can prevail with a prolonged court battle.

The filing, made on Monday, comes as a report out of Korea alleged that Apple and Samsung are once again in talks to settle their patent infringement disputes, which span across the globe in numerous legal clashes. Talks are said to have reignited after Apple was found to have infringed on some Samsung patents in their most recent U.S trial.

While both Apple and Samsung were found guilty of patent infringement, the disparity was wide: While Apple paid only$158,000 in damages, Samsung was fined $119.6 million. Still, the retrial proved advantageous for Samsung, which saw its original damages reduced from some $1.05 billion.

post #2 of 89
In addition to its lying and thieving ways, Samsung is good at projecting.
post #3 of 89
Dismissed because it is "a story out of Korea."

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post #4 of 89

Samsung doesn't care if this war is fought for another 30 years. I think legal expenses must come out of Samsung's advertising budget.

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post #5 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

Samsung doesn't care if this war is fought for another 30 years. I think legal expenses must come out of Samsung's advertising budget.

 

That and Google's budget. 

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post #6 of 89

I hate to say this, but I think is time Tim gives Obama a call and make sure Samsung does not ship a single product into the US. Then Tim need to talk to the EU and make Samsung does not ship any products there. I think their tone will change if they loose two of their biggest markets.

 

What their lawyer is saying it is costing Apple more than Samsung not to settle.

post #7 of 89
"Still, the retrial proved advantageous for Samsung, which saw its original damages reduced from some $1.05 billion"

Huh? Two different trials...
post #8 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While both Apple and Samsung were found guilty of patent infringement, the disparity was wide: While Apple paid only$158,000 in damages, Samsung was fined $119.6 million. Still, the retrial proved advantageous for Samsung, which saw its original damages reduced from some $1.05 billion.

 

The $119.6 million is not a reduction of the $1.05 billion.  And this trial was not a retrial of the original trial.  In the original trial there was an adjustment to the initial $1.05 billion in damages against Samsung, down to $920 million.  So the first trial netted Apple $920 million in damages against Samsung and the second trial netted $119.6 million in damages against Samsung.  Samsung will appeal the verdicts in both trials so we'll hear more about both trials in the future.

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post #9 of 89

Why in the world would Apple be willing to settle with those scum sucking parasites?

 

I mentioned Apple and Samsung kissing and making up in a post a few days ago, but it was supposed to be a damn joke. I didn't realize that it was actually a possibility.


Edited by Apple ][ - 5/20/14 at 7:14am
post #10 of 89
FOSSPatent's take on it:

"It's key to bear in mind that the parties' court filing, including the attached correspondence between counsel that was apparently written for no other purpose than the blame game that is now taking place in front of the judge, relates only to ADR with the help of a mediator (which the parties tried before, more than once in fact). This is separate from the working-level discussions the Korea Times reported on. Working-level discussions can take place anytime, but the parties wouldn't tell the judge about those informal talks. Judge Koh wants them to make another formal mediation effort. And so far they can't agree on that one. But they are probably talking nonetheless, just not in a formal ADR setting. They can settle without ADR.

Apple wants assurances that its participation in an ADR effort wouldn't be held against it in court (as evidence of its willingness to license), while Samsung would be available for ADR "without seeking to impose any comparable conditions upon Apple". Samsung notes that "Apple has repeatedly used its prelitigation meetings with Samsung during trial to support its arguments".


http://www.fosspatents.com/2014/05/apple-samsung-lawyers-blame-each-other.html
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post #11 of 89

Of course the lawyers for Samsung don't want to settle. Samsung is a rotten company- now imagine its lawyers!?! It means killing the goose that is laying the golden eggs...

post #12 of 89
The best way to show Samsung how much we dislike it is to boycott there products. All of them.
No sales means no money to continue battling in court.
I for one would never buy or own a Samsung product after reading about this kind of behavior from a corporate entity. No morales, not dignity, no class what so ever.
Don't buy Samsung products!
post #13 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Why in the world would Apple be willing to settle with those scum sucking parasites?

 

I mentioned Apple and Samsung kissing and making up in a post a few days ago, but it was supposed to be a damn joke. I didn't realize that it was actually a possibility.

 

Because it provides no benefit to Apple and has the greater potential of damaging their reputation.

What benefit could it provide? $100 million, $1 billon? Chump change to Apple. Bragging rights? I'm sure hundreds of millions of teenagers with their Samsung phablets couldn't care less.

 

What are the potential downsides? Apple ends up being seen by everybody in the industry as the bully in the mobile playground. And over what? A few design and software patents that don't come close to expressing what Apple products stand for because you can't patent quality and effort.

 

As Tim Cook said at AllThingsD a couple of years ago "it's a distraction". They only had to go "thermonuclear war" because Steve was pissed at Eric Schmidt. Job done. Time to move on.

post #14 of 89

Time for a new "I'm a Mac" campaign focussing on the copyist that never quite gets it.

post #15 of 89
In my opinion, Samsung's infringement is blatant and deliberate. Apple has enormous cash reserves, and could fight this forever. I actually think their best bet is to Ronald Reagan Samsung into submission. Tell them they will never allowed themselves to be pushed around the courtroom and that they will fight with nearly unlimited financial resources until Samsung gives up. Peace Through Strength.
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post #16 of 89

Unfortunately these patent war chests just make it more difficult for the small guy to get into business. As we can see patent or no patent doesn't stop the 800 pound gorillas, but it stops the small guys that cannot risk getting cought with their patents down to their ankles.

post #17 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

The best way to show Samsung how much we dislike it is to boycott there products. All of them.
No sales means no money to continue battling in court.
I for one would never buy or own a Samsung product after reading about this kind of behavior from a corporate entity. No morales, not dignity, no class what so ever.
Don't buy Samsung products!

You realize that would be Apple products too right? They supply components for many of Apple's products.
post #18 of 89
This Quinn fellow is despicable. I've read so many inflammatory, false, and off the wall comments from him, all laced with vicious hatred and mockery towards Apple- always straying away from the facts into FUD and smear category. What a piece of shit. But hey, when Samsung is literally shoving wads of cash up your ass then I guess its justifiable.
Edited by Slurpy - 5/20/14 at 8:25am
post #19 of 89
Apple have always been willing to settle.

But have you seen the price?
post #20 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Why in the world would Apple be willing to settle with those scum sucking parasites?

 

Because Apple isn't suing to make money. They are suing to get their IP recognized and properly licensed. If Samsung was willing to admit their wrong doing and agree to proper licensing including back payments, Apple would take that. 

 

But Samsung wants it to go to trial to drag it out so that they can make their money and by the time any judgement is rendered that might take something off the market it's already gone. 

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post #21 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterfish View Post
 

 

Because it provides no benefit to Apple and has the greater potential of damaging their reputation.

What benefit could it provide? $100 million, $1 billon? Chump change to Apple. Bragging rights? I'm sure hundreds of millions of teenagers with their Samsung phablets couldn't care less.

 

What are the potential downsides? Apple ends up being seen by everybody in the industry as the bully in the mobile playground. And over what? A few design and software patents that don't come close to expressing what Apple products stand for because you can't patent quality and effort.

 

As Tim Cook said at AllThingsD a couple of years ago "it's a distraction". They only had to go "thermonuclear war" because Steve was pissed at Eric Schmidt. Job done. Time to move on.

 

I think that Apple has itself in a "damned if they do" "damned if they don't" situation.

 

I think it's time to cut its losses [gains... whatever].

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post #22 of 89

Hey, if they want a jihad… let’s give them one.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #23 of 89

"While both Apple and Samsung were found guilty of patent infringement, the disparity was wide: While Apple paid only$158,000 in damages, Samsung was fined $119.6 million. Still, the retrial proved advantageous for Samsung, which saw its original damages reduced from some $1.05 billion."

 

Article is screwed up. The "retrial" for Apple vs. Samsung I reduced the damages to $930 million. The way this is written it confuses the damages from Apple vs. Samsung II with the damages from Apple vs. Samsung I.  Damages were not reduced to $119.6 million. Rather, the $119.6 million is to be added to the $930 million, pushing the total over $1 billion.  This "retrial" was not advantageous for Samsung.

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post #24 of 89

If ever a company deserved a boycott, in so many ways it's Samsung.

"We lose money the old fashioned way. We earn it."

post #25 of 89

Yikes!

 

It's like they have iHater internet commenters making such statements.  Or Fox News...

post #26 of 89
In the art of War: when fighting an enemy, constantly harry and intimidate your opponent to try to catch him off balance. It is a very powerful tactic, one which Samsung knows well. It may win Samsung a few Battles , but fundamentally Samsung will lose the war because its strategy of fast follower will eventually bleed it dry. This can be seen by the dropping share price and reduced margins which will limit its ability to wage a war based on huge ad expenditure.
post #27 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

The best way to show Samsung how much we dislike it is to boycott there products. All of them.
No sales means no money to continue battling in court.
I for one would never buy or own a Samsung product after reading about this kind of behavior from a corporate entity. No morales, not dignity, no class what so ever.
Don't buy Samsung products!

Your iPhone contains Samsung products. How about giving that up then?

post #28 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While both Apple and Samsung were found guilty of patent infringement, the disparity was wide: While Apple paid only$158,000 in damages, Samsung was fined $119.6 million. Still, the retrial proved advantageous for Samsung, which saw its original damages reduced from some $1.05 billion.
 

 

That's two days in a row Apple Insider has posted the same mistake about the damages - and drawn conclusions from this mistake, thus making a bad situation worse. The total damages are over $1 billion!

 

Come on... fix this!

post #29 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post
 

Unfortunately these patent war chests just make it more difficult for the small guy to get into business. As we can see patent or no patent doesn't stop the 800 pound gorillas, but it stops the small guys that cannot risk getting cought with their patents down to their ankles.

 

Exactly! 

post #30 of 89

Bullies, both individuals and corporate, fold when confronted. They are confronted on the street and the playground as individuals and in the courts as corporations... and which corporation has consistently lost in the courts? Scamsung is saving up a great deal of hurt for itself, its peers in industry won't soon forget the treachery. 

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post #31 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

The best way to show Samsung how much we dislike it is to boycott there products. All of them.
No sales means no money to continue battling in court.
I for one would never buy or own a Samsung product after reading about this kind of behavior from a corporate entity. No morales, not dignity, no class what so ever.
Don't buy Samsung products!

yeah that will not work, all your apple products have Samsung products in them. I person have no Samsung consumer sold product in my home and never will since I tend to be brand loyal to products which server me well.

post #32 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post

Unfortunately these patent war chests just make it more difficult for the small guy to get into business. As we can see patent or no patent doesn't stop the 800 pound gorillas, but it stops the small guys that cannot risk getting cought with their patents down to their ankles.
Without patent protection, the little guy's intellectual property and rights would not be protected from anyone. They would be eaten alive by everyone.

As it is, the scofflaws of the world, such as Samsung (judging by their actions as described in a Vanity Fair article linked in another thread and their action vis a vis Dyson) don't give a damn about your rights.

There is one way and only one way to stop them—prevent sales of consumer products until they can show they will abide by the laws of the countries the sell in.
post #33 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"This is Apple's Vietnam, and people are sick of it," Quinn was quoted as saying.
 

 

On Wikipedia this kind of comment would pick up a [citation needed] pretty quick.   Using wording like "people think" or "some people say" is sometimes referred to as weasel words since it suggests a statement is true because of an unspecified set of people holding that opinion, but does so without providing any substantiation of the claim that anyone does hold the opinion.  Nor does such a statement provide support for the implication that such people holding said opinion lends any credence to the held opinion.  It's about as mealy-mouthed as it gets.

 

On the other hand I'm sure 'people' (meaning Samsung and its lawyers) are indeed sick of losing in court, so I guess that's true enough.

post #34 of 89
Come on, Samsung: innovate, don't litigate. Oh wait, this doesn't apply to them because they don't know how to innovate.

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #35 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by CogitoDexter View Post
 

 

That's two days in a row Apple Insider has posted the same mistake about the damages - and drawn conclusions from this mistake, thus making a bad situation worse. The total damages are over $1 billion!

 

Come on... fix this!

 

I was thinking I read somewhere that the damages were in addition to what had already been awarded by the previous trial.  Now I iz confuzzed.

post #36 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinglesthula View Post

On Wikipedia this kind of comment would pick up a [citation needed] pretty quick.   Using wording like "people think" or "some people say" is sometimes referred to as weasel words since it suggests a statement is true because of an unspecified set of people holding that opinion, but does so without providing any substantiation of the claim that anyone does hold the opinion.  Nor does such a statement provide support for the implication that such people holding said opinion lends any credence to the held opinion.  It's about as mealy-mouthed as it gets.

On the other hand I'm sure 'people' (meaning Samsung and its lawyers) are indeed sick of losing in court, so I guess that's true enough.

In other words, Quinn's arguments before the jury and press sound exactly like what trolls post.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #37 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterfish View Post

Because it provides no benefit to Apple and has the greater potential of damaging their reputation.
What benefit could it provide? $100 million, $1 billon? Chump change to Apple. Bragging rights? I'm sure hundreds of millions of teenagers with their Samsung phablets couldn't care less.

What are the potential downsides? Apple ends up being seen by everybody in the industry as the bully in the mobile playground. And over what? A few design and software patents that don't come close to expressing what Apple products stand for because you can't patent quality and effort.

As Tim Cook said at AllThingsD a couple of years ago "it's a distraction". They only had to go "thermonuclear war" because Steve was pissed at Eric Schmidt. Job done. Time to move on.

It's the principle. Apple: "you steal out tech, we'll sue the shit out if you. Now **** off. "


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

This Quinn fellow is despicable. I've read so many inflammatory, false, and off the wall comments from him, all laced with vicious hatred and mockery towards Apple- always straying away from the facts into FUD and smear category. What a piece of shit. But hey, when Samsung is literally shoving wads of cash up your ass then I guess its justifiable.

Quinn's a lawyer and works for Sammy. That's double scummy for him.
post #38 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

Your iPhone contains Samsung products. How about giving that up then?

Ahhh, the wonderful red-herring argument. Here is the fallacy with what you said.  Apple already spent the money and gave it to Shamsung for those parts. There is nothing that can be done about that.  However, by buying the Apple product, you are helping Apple's cause in protecting its IP, because they get your money.

 

So, boycotting Apple products (even if they are made from Sam-shill materials) only hurts Apple and helps Samshit.  I, for one, have not bought a Samesung TV, dishwasher, phone, tablet, or anything from that corrupt and evil company. 

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post #39 of 89
I'm glad I don't have to deal with these lawyers and copy cat companies day in and day out like Apple does.

Samsung was just another cheap electronics knock off company, who made a name for themselves copying the iPhone, they happened to make it big and now Apple wants to share in some of their profits. But, Samsung is starting to think they're more than a cheap copycat company. The problem for them will come when they think they have taste, and stop copying Apple. That's what happened to Microsoft. The minute they stopped copying Apple play by play, they fell out of relevance. But Microsoft is back to copying again, so they may still make it.
post #40 of 89
This is just lawyer speak. Lawyers are incentivized to keep conflicts going as long as possible and often inject inflammatory rhetoric to that end. They feed off of misery.
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