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Bounden delays iOS to Android port after finding many Google phones' gyroscopes don't work

post #1 of 90
Thread Starter 
Game Oven, the developer of Bounden, a novel dancing app making use of iPhone's gyroscope, has delayed its planned Android port after finding that even top tier devices using Google's platform have defective, inconsistent and in some cases completely faked gyroscope hardware.



The Bounden app (above) is a two player dancing game based around choreography by the Dutch National Ballet. It tracks an iPhone's movements through space as both players hold the phone and navigate through a virtual sphere.

However, as noted by Daring Fireball, the developer was forced to delay its Android port after finding that the "diversity of hardware" across Android devices made delivering a functional game comparable to its iOS offering impossible.

Game Oven noted that Android devices deliver inconsistent data from both their digital compasses and gyroscopes, sensors that first appeared in smartphones four or five years ago. Apple first added a digital compass to iPhone 3GS in 2009, and was the first phone vendor to build a three-axis gyroscope into a smartphone for iPhone 4 in 2010.



Steve Jobs profiled the new gyroscope as a "cool piece of hardware" that would, like the earlier accelerometer, "open up a whole new vista of gaming." Every iPhone since has integrated its accelerometer, gyroscope and digital compass to provide accurate six-axis motion sensing and rotation about gravity.

Apple made accessing these sensors easy for developers to access via iOS' CoreMotion API, which Jobs noted "give you extremely precise position information. And it's perfect for gaming, because it's built into every iPhone 4, so you know it's there."

Android is not perfect for gaming



A Vine video clip (below) of a variety of modern Samsung, Google Nexus, Lenovo and Sony Ericsson smartphones and tablets shows the devices' digital compass pointing in wildly different directions, in some cases erratically.



"Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with electromagnetic fields confusing the compass; it has everything to do with the diversity of hardware inside these devices," Game Oven noted.

The developer discovered similar inconsistency with various Android devices' gyroscopes, noting "that a) some devices had 'broken' gyroscopes that didn't work on all axis, b) that some devices were faking gyroscopes by mixing and matching the accelerometer data with compass data, or
c) that some devices did not have a gyroscope at all.""We weren't just testing on low tier devices, by the way. Popular devices like the Samsung Galaxy S4 are problematic as well" - Game Oven

Game Oven added, "these are all major problems for our heavily gyroscope-precision based game. We weren't just testing on low tier devices, by the way. Popular devices like the Samsung Galaxy S4 are problematic as well."

The developer also noted that the hardware fragmentation it observed wasn't an isolated issue among Android developers.

"We're not the only ones though - after posting the Vine, we got an enormous amount of response from other developers recognizing the problem," the vendor stated.

Android buyers blame app developers for shoddy hardware



Attempting to release the game only for a "whitelisted" group of Android devices with functional gyroscopes is a complicated and risky proposition, the developer noted.

"Unfortunately, the Google Play Store doesn't allow us to filter on 'good gyroscopes', which means our only option is to test the game, on every Android device we can get our hands on, so that we can release Bounden as soon as possible," Game Oven stated.

Responding to a user's suggestion that it release a free trial version that users could try out and buy if it worked properly, Game Oven developer Adriaan de Jongh stated, "Our main concern with a level 1 for free model is bad reviews.

"Our experience with users on the Google Play store is that they are very unforgiving; and they have all the right to be," de Jongh wrote. "Other people should know when a game works incorrectly, especially when they have to put down money for it.

"However, if our game indeed does not work on a number of devices, we feel that this will give us and the game a bad reputation no matter how hard we try to make the game work on as many devices as possible.

"There will still be many 1-star reviews for something we cannot really help, and it won't do the game good. We would not make a very strong case saying 'their device is not good enough.' So unfortunately, a demo model is not going to help us solve the problem of unhappy players."

Despite asking the Android community for help in identifying hardware that works and does not work and offering free apps to users to try out on their devices, Game Oven was immediately attacked by a series of Android fans who accused the small developer of being "anti-Android" and "biased."
post #2 of 90
Quote:
Android buyers blame app developers for shoddy hardware

Love the innocence/ignorance of Fandroids. 

post #3 of 90
As all of us Apple enthusiasts know, you get what you pay for and then some, in fact a lot, with Apple hardware.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #4 of 90

There are definitely benefits to the walled garden.

 

If that video were of Apple devices, there would be a massive uproar and "gyroscope-gate" would be trending.

post #5 of 90
Shocking.

Actually, no it isn't. The saddest thing? The comment on that page from hateful Android fanatics, claiming that this developer has an "Apple bias" and hates Android- even though the developer is trying to work with the community to solve the fucking problem.
post #6 of 90

Android is just a complete mess, a mix mash of shoddy devices, mostly incompatible with each other, most running outdated and old versions of Android, on crappy, cheap hardware, made by a whole slew of different companies.

 

And some morons have the nerve to claim that fragmentation is not an issue.

 

I'd never heard of this developer before, but I applaud their wise decision. If I were a developer, I would never release anything on Android either. It's a waste of time, and the app will suffer and be worse than releasing it on a proper platform such as iOS.

post #7 of 90

Good ol'DED.  No hat tip to Gruber from where he probably first noticed this nor a link to the actual blog post.  Which is here:

 

http://gameovenstudios.com/bounden-on-android-delayed/

post #8 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Despite asking the Android community for help in identifying hardware that works and does not work and offering free apps to users to try out on their devices, Game Oven was immediately attacked by a series of Android fans who accused the small developer of being "anti-Android" and "biased."
In every community there will be bad apples. But what you are doing here is focusing on the negative idiots and ignoring the people who actually tried to help. And that isn't right either.
Just like the Apple community or Microsoft community the Android community is filled with both idiot trolls and rational reasonable people.

There definitely seems to be some problem with the gyroscopes of certain devices though. No idea whether it's hardware related or a question of calibration.
Wasn't there a similar problem with the 5s because they changed brands of gyroscope/accelerometer from the iPhone 5. Which then was corrected via a software update. Maybe a similar solution is possible for this problem in Android. Existing low end devices would never get that update of course but for future devices then in that case.
Edited by Chipsy - 5/21/14 at 11:07am
post #9 of 90
I've had several Android devices over the years and I don't think compass/gyro ever worked right on one of them.
post #10 of 90

Pretty funny reading the comments on the original blog post this story came from. Android users complaining Bounden is biased when they are asking Android users for help on Android devices. Fandroids are so delusional. 

post #11 of 90

@nht

Um, third paragraph:

"However, as noted by Daring Fireball, ..."

post #12 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Good ol'DED.  No hat tip to Gruber from where he probably first noticed this nor a link to the actual blog post.  Which is here:

http://gameovenstudios.com/bounden-on-android-delayed/

plagiarism *is* the sincerest form of flattery (or something like that). it's also the source of so many appleinsider articles.
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
Reply
post #13 of 90

Crazy, delusional Fandroids are accusing the developer of faking that video with the wildly inaccurate gyroscopes. :lol:

 

No buddy, there is no wide conspiracy going on. The simple explanation is just that most Android phones are crap. Deal with it.

post #14 of 90

Jeez even my webOS phone doesn't give me so many troubles.

post #15 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The Bounden app (above) is a two player dancing game based around choreography by the Dutch National Ballet. It tracks an iPhone's movements through space as both players hold the phone and navigate through a virtual sphere.

1. Android users have no friends, least of all a potential dance partner because they are so hateful towards other people
2. Android users are typically overweight so would have difficulty dancing gracefully
3. Bounden is a paid app, Android users mostly steal apps or download free apps, I believe a lot of them are baristas
4. Android users are lacking in culture and respect for creativity so choreographed dance would be wasted on them
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Despite asking the Android community for help in identifying hardware that works and does not work and offering free apps to users to try out on their devices, Game Oven was immediately attacked by a series of Android fans who accused the small developer of being "anti-Android" and "biased."

That's right, doesn't the developer know that Android has 80% marketshare and it doesn't matter about any problems because they have 80% marketshare, even though they don't have 80% marketshare. If all their hardware is broken then it's clearly the developer's fault because majority rules. It's up to the developer to ship new hardware gyroscopes.
post #16 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipsy View Post


In every community there will be bad apples. But what you are doing here is focusing on the negative idiots and ignoring the people who actually tried to help. And that isn't right either.
Just like the Apple community or Microsoft community the Android community is filled with both idiot trolls and rational reasonable people.

There definitely seems to be some problem with the gyroscopes of certain devices though. No idea whether it's hardware related or a question of calibration.
Wasn't there a similar problem with the 5s because they changed brands of gyroscope/accelerometer from the iPhone 5. Which then was corrected via a software update. Maybe a similar solution is possible for this problem in Android. Existing low end devices would never get that update of course but for future devices then in that case.

The majority of comments on the article were these sort of people, the same kind of "bad apples" that complain just like you do about every letter I write.  

post #17 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Shocking.

Actually, no it isn't. The saddest thing? The comment on that page from hateful Android fanatics, claiming that this developer has an "Apple bias" and hates Android- even though the developer is trying to work with the community to solve the fucking problem.

This is why I can't stand Android on the whole, and it's users. The hardware is mostly cheap junk, even the ones that look like higher quality on the surface, and most of the users are not people I would ever choose to associate myself with, and this exemplifies my line of reasoning.

post #18 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post
 
plagiarism *is* the sincerest form of flattery (or something like that). it's also the source of so many appleinsider articles.

It is not all plagiarism. There are some very original typos in the AI articles.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #19 of 90
So the Android phones are crappy and shitty hardware. I love my iPhones best.
post #20 of 90
Quote:
 Despite asking the Android community for help in identifying hardware that works and does not work and offering free apps to users to try out on their devices, Game Oven was immediately attacked by a series of Android fans who accused the small developer of being "anti-Android" and "biased."

This is why I give Android and its user base the middle finger.

post #21 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

The majority of comments on the article were these sort of people, the same kind of "bad apples" that complain just like you do about every letter I write.  
So I agree with you that there is a problem and I give a little bit of critique on the last paragraph and you complain about me complaining?
You're a critical/opinion writer but don't like to be criticized yourself? :s
That doesn't make sense...
Edited by Chipsy - 5/21/14 at 11:33am
post #22 of 90

"Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with electromagnetic fields confusing the compass; it has everything to do with the diversity of hardware inside these devices," Game Oven noted.
 

Where did Game Oven note this? (quote)

post #23 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipsy View Post
In every community there will be bad apples. But what you are doing here is focusing on the negative idiots and ignoring the people who actually tried to help. And that isn't right either.

 

I believe that many Android users are bad apples, and what they represent and their mentality is bad for tech in general. Android is not really about innovating or making good devices, it's mostly about making cheap devices with gimmicky features that don't even work properly.

 

Android's foundation is built upon stolen code, and their user base mostly only cares about not having to spend any more pennies than they have to. That is not good for the future advancement of tech. The race to the bottom method of doing business is nothing to be proud of.

 

I do see them as being lower class, and I don't associate with any of them. I actually don't know a single person who is an Android phone user, as most of my friends are highly creative people.

post #24 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


1. Android users have no friends, least of all a potential dance partner because they are so hateful towards other people
2. Android users are typically overweight so would have difficulty dancing gracefully
3. Bounden is a paid app, Android users mostly steal apps or download free apps, I believe a lot of them are baristas
4. Android users are lacking in culture and respect for creativity so choreographed dance would be wasted on them

This was the best thing I've read all day! Spot on!

post #25 of 90

If anything, this seems like it is more about publicity and lack of development experience. Reproducibility seems low among Android users (hell, I couldn't repro the issue with my Nexus 7 or HTC One (M7)).

 

1. This app was just released today for iOS;

2. Their previous apps look like something somebody slapped together overnight;

3. Bounden's own website cannot even display the copyright year properly (2011-2028..?).

post #26 of 90

Mind you, I'm typing this on a MacBookPro (mid-2013 model), but I have to take issue with this crap:

 

"1. Android users have no friends, least of all a potential dance partner because they are so hateful towards other people"

 

My wife says you're full of it.


"2. Android users are typically overweight so would have difficulty dancing gracefully"

 

I'm 6' even and weigh in at 168 lbs. 


"3. Bounden is a paid app, Android users mostly steal apps or download free apps, I believe a lot of them are baristas"

 

I don't have such an app, have no need for it, and I'm a Sr. Systems Administrator. I rarely pay for apps on my cheap little Huawei, mostly because I find that very few of them are useful enough to be worth having. Then again, I'm not glued to my phone 24/7 either - the phone, Waze and corporate email are about the complete extent of what I use it for.


"4. Android users are lacking in culture and respect for creativity so choreographed dance would be wasted on them"

 

Currently I'm halfway through re-reading Plato's Republic... for fun. I live in PDX, which has a boundless plethora of culture and music... and yes, this includes a wild variety of choreographed dancing.

 

Long story short? Generalization of this order makes you look dumb and uneducated, and you should know better. I prefer Apple products where they make sense in my own personal use cases. For a solid-as-hell laptop and OS, well, see the beginning of this missive. For a tablet, a 16GB iPad Wifi-only model makes sense for me. For my phone? Screw it - the little Android device I have is cheap, works well, and does what I want it to do. If it gets stolen or broken, I lose a grand total of $149.00 of investment in the deal, and can easily go get another one. It's a fairly solid little device for what it does, and has lasted about 18 months and counting, so I'm not too awful worried about ROI on it by now. ;)

post #27 of 90

The posts on this thread are beyond ridiculous.  Just because someone has chosen a different technology than you does not make them in some way stupid or inferior.  If Apple were the only company making smartphones then technology and innovation would suffer greatly.  Same if only Google were in the smartphone business.  Competition drives innovation.  It is truly amazing how butt hurt people on here are over someone happening to not have identical preferences.  Power off your phone one day and realize that perhaps there is more to life then what Apple or Google is selling you.

post #28 of 90

I could have told you that. I had to try to port a gyroscope oriented app to Android a number of years ago (search for TechoBloc) and it's not fun. GPS and other sensors are drastically different between various Android devices, making testing a bloody nightmare.

post #29 of 90

That top center tablet is wonderful. :lol:

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #30 of 90

um. its was a "joke"? wow. and a funny one at that, I might add. Stereotyping, its not nice, but it saves time! (ok. sorry, another joke)

post #31 of 90

This doesn't surprise me at all. I've written 30-60fps augmented reality apps on both platforms (for defense customers), and certainly there is sensor fragmentation in the Android realm, but clever engineers have no trouble coding around them for the popular devices.

 

For Game Oven to feign surprise about this shows their immaturity in the games industry. I used to make PC and Mac games, and PCs have always been more of a headache because of system diversity. Granted, Macs usually have the tip of the hardware iceberg, and there's not a lot of diversity, which makes them much easier to code for. Once you go to console games, everything becomes easier again... until your publisher clarifies that you'll be shipping on the big 3 consoles and PCs... so you abstract the hardware differences out of the game. You'd have the same pain Bounden experienced if you took a Wii game to PC and suddenly had to deal with different pointing devices and/or a myriad of cheap gamepads.

 

The thing is, they're going to finish the port, because there is money there. One big problem was failing to realize that they would want the Android user base earlier in the timeline. It would be much easier for them to deal with if they started by developing a portable architecture and accumulating a variety of test devices or beta testers.

 

All of this aside, yes, current iOS devices are sublime and performant. Still, the current marketplace demands application portability, and anyone who doesn't embrace that early on is shooting themselves in the foot.

 

This thread is satisfies many of my stereotypes. AI delivers.

post #32 of 90

I've said this time and time again for years.  Android devices are bottom-of-barrel products.  They compete for the lowest price point and people get what they pay for.

The Android community (especially Fandroids) should be ashamed of themselves for their blind support of such trash and having low-to-zero standards and not expecting more from this botched experiment of a mobile OS.  It's a f*cking joke.

They have liars like Samsung that spew nonsense statements about the "superiority" of their devices, when the reality is the exact opposite.  We have the no-name cheapsh!t Chinese brands that not only flood the market with $30 devices, but spew out Android malware to go with it.  Countless of different configurations, using components from who-knows-where, with different variations of Android OS currently in use... and Fandroids have the NERVE to spin that entire mess as "choice for the consumer".  Total bullish!t.  

And then we have iPhones.  They work, they are consistent, and Apple is really the ONLY mobile vendor that does its best to make sure that each new OS will run on just about all their "old" devices too.  

Fandroids are delusional to a clinical degree.  Shame on them.  Have some standards, and get a life.

post #33 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind View Post
 

There are definitely benefits to the walled garden.

 

If that video were of Apple devices, there would be a massive uproar and "gyroscope-gate" would be trending.

....and AAPL would be down 30 points.

post #34 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

However, as noted by Daring Fireball, the developer was forced to delay its Android port after finding that the "diversity of hardware" across Android devices made delivering a functional game comparable to its iOS offering impossible.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Good ol'DED.  No hat tip to Gruber from where he probably first noticed this nor a link to the actual blog post.  Which is here:

http://gameovenstudios.com/bounden-on-android-delayed/

 

@nht: Maybe you should take time to proof read your work before slinging mud (at an author John Gruber aka Daring Fireball). You took the time to get the link and and reference it in your trashing of DED. Why not take the care to double check your work first?  Besides, DED may not even wear a hat ¡

 

Peace.

post #35 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind View Post
 

There are definitely benefits to the walled garden.

 

If that video were of Apple devices, there would be a massive uproar and "gyroscope-gate" would be trending.

....and AAPL would be down 30 points.

....and that blowhard Isaacson would be on CNBC lamenting Apple's decline under Cook.*

 

*Sorry for the reply to my own post....

post #36 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by sltiedeman View Post
 

The posts on this thread are beyond ridiculous.  Just because someone has chosen a different technology than you does not make them in some way stupid or inferior.  If Apple were the only company making smartphones then technology and innovation would suffer greatly.  Same if only Google were in the smartphone business.  Competition drives innovation.  It is truly amazing how butt hurt people on here are over someone happening to not have identical preferences.  Power off your phone one day and realize that perhaps there is more to life then what Apple or Google is selling you.


Keep spinning it.

What's shameful is people to mask crap as "competition".  We all want good, bonafide, competition.  It's great for everyone.  The mess that Android is, and the people that make excuses for such garbage, is pathetic to say the least.  Let's see Android and the manufacturers put out polished, worthy products that spurs real innovation and competition.  Right now, Android is battling for the cheapskates, the bottom-of-barrel customers, and purposeful quick-obsolescense of devices so the consumer can go right around and buy another one to keep the waste-machine running.

When consumers blame developers because their sh!tty Android phone uses junk parts that barely work, or purposely try to fake it, that's ignorance for consumers and shameful behavior from the manufacturers.  Who would you rather blame?

post #37 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

The majority of comments on the article were these sort of people, the same kind of "bad apples" that complain just like you do about every letter I write.  

corrections? ded?

why don't you identify yourself as the regurgitator of the blog post being commented upon, rather than use a pseudonym to post comments on the blog post you, uhm, authored? or is that level of professionalism frowned upon at ai?
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
Reply
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
Reply
post #38 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


corrections? ded?

why don't you identify yourself as the regurgitator of the blog post being commented upon, rather than use a pseudonym to post comments on the blog post you, uhm, authored? or is that level of professionalism frowned upon at ai?

 

Somebody who names themselves "Pooch" doesn't really have the right to be taken seriously.

post #39 of 90
Open! Choice!
post #40 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
 

 

You mixed them up. It's iOS 7 that crippled older devices. KitKat actually makes older devices better.

 

What Android phones from 2010 run KitKat, like Apple's iPhone 4 runs iOS 7?

 

You can dick around with CyanogenMod to get KitKat running on some specific Sony Xperia phones from 2011, but that's described as being only "reasonably stable" and "it’s important to note that several features aren’t working on these legacy device ROMs including FM radio, 720p video recording, HDMI and Wi-Fi tethering. Wi-Fi is working, but not without some bugs."

 

You are so wrong it's just comical. But that's par for the course among Android fans, who make excuses for crap and then complain about how flawed Apple is despite being so wildly far ahead of the entire industry behind Google's Android.

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