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Apple's Beats acquisition reportedly delayed over Dre and Iovine roles, valuation, more - Page 4

post #121 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

On World Class's 2  albums, he's credited with drum programming and voice. So what are you talking about he wasn't a rapper?  

 

He went on to join MWA which was credited as producing, but he also wrote the lyrics and performed on their albums as well.  So, was producing as well as rapping and writing the disgusting lyrics.  

 

Read the lyrics of the songs he produces.  It's pure garbage.

Your childish opinion does not matter.  He is what he is, so grow up and deal with it.

 

Apple can most certainly use a man with Dr. Dre's credentials.

He has been on the various sides of the media industry and is a winner.

If you can't or refuse to understand that then tough luck.

 

From WikiPedia:

 

Dr. Dre, is an American record producer, rapper and entrepreneur. (Born in Compton, California)

He is the founder and current CEO of Aftermath Entertainment and Beats Electronics.

Dre was previously the co-owner of, and an artist on, Death Row Records.

He has produced albums for and overseen the careers of many rappers, including Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Xzibit, 50 Cent, The Game, and Kendrick Lamar.

Dr. Dre was ranked as the second richest figure in the American hip hop scene by Forbes with a net worth of $550 million.

Dr. Dre made his first on screen appearance as a weapons dealer in the 1996 bank robbery movie Set It Off.

Dr. Dre also appeared in the movies The Wash and Training Day.

Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine donated a $70 million endowment to the University of Southern California to create the USC Jimmy Iovine and Andre Young Academy for Arts, Technology and the Business of Innovation.

 

Grammy Awards

Year

Nominated work

Award

Result

1994

Nuthin' But a G Thang

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

1994

Let Me Ride

Best Rap Solo Performance

Won

1996

Keep There Heads Ringin'

Best Rap Solo Performance

Nominated

1997

California Love

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2000

Still D.R.E.

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2000

Guilty Conscience

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2001

Dr. Dre 2001

Best Rap Album

Nominated

2001

Himself

Producer of the Year

Won

2001

The Marshall Mathers LP

Album of the Year(as Producer)

Nominated

2001

The Marshall Mathers LP

Best Rap Album(as Producer)

Won

2001

Forgot About Dre

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Won

2001

The Next Episode

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2002

Himself

Producer of the Year

Nominated

2003

HImself

Producer of the Year

Nominated

2003

Knoc

Best Music Video, Short Form

Nominated

2006

Encore

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2010

Crack a Bottle

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Won

2010

Relapse

Best Rap Album (Producer)

Won

2012

I Need a Doctor

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2012

I Need a Doctor

Best Rap Song

Nominated

 

MTV Video Music Awards

Year

Nominated work

Award

Result

1993

"Nuthin' But a G Thang"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1994

"Let Me Ride"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1995

"Keep Their Heads Ringin'"

Best Rap Video

Won

1996

"California Love"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1997

"Been There, Done That"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1997

"No Diggity"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1997

"No Diggity"

Best R&B Video

Nominated

1999

"My Name Is"

Best Direction

Nominated

1999

"Guilty Conscience"

Best Breakthrough Video

Nominated

2000

"The Real Slim Shady"

Best Direction

Nominated

2000

"Forgot About Dre"

Best Rap Video

Won

2001

"Stan"

Best Direction

Nominated

 

Filmography

Films

Year

Title

Role

Notes

1992

Niggaz4Life: The Only Home Video

Himself

Documentary

1996

Set It Off

Black Sam

Minor Role

1999

Whiteboyz

Don Flip Crew #1

Minor Role

2000

Up In Smoke Tour

Himself

Concert Film

2001

Training Day

Paul

Minor Role

The Wash

Sean

Main Role

Video Games

Year

Title

Role

Notes

2005

50 Cent: Bulletproof

Grizz

Voice role and likeness

post #122 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Please stop posting about your religious neuroses. Save it for Church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post

Jeez.. doesn't anyone have a sense of humor around here?

I'm fairly certain the OP of the 666 thing was 100% serious.
post #123 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Well, I'm glad to see we have someone from Billboard to help us assess what Billboard knows and doesn't know.

I assume you are being sarcastic.

If so, the same could be said of you, no?
post #124 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Your childish opinion does not matter.  He is what he is, so grow up and deal with it.

Apple can most certainly use a man with Dr. Dre's credentials.
He has been on the various sides of the media industry and is a winner.
If you can't or refuse to understand that then tough luck.
If Dre and Iovine are so great how come we're not hearing about any other company being interested in Beats? Presumably Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Yahoo etc. could use Dre's credentials, no? Prior to this rumor surfacing I don't remember seeing any Apple watcher/blogger opine that Apple should go after Beats. I don't remember hearing about any other company being interested in Beats either. I'm not convinced that these guys are all that. Although I'm sure they they're great salesmen and have some of Steve Jobs RDF. 1smile.gif
post #125 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


If Dre and Iovine are so great how come we're not hearing about any other company being interested in Beats? Presumably Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Yahoo etc. could use Dre's credentials, no? Prior to this rumor surfacing I don't remember seeing any Apple watcher/blogger opine that Apple should go after Beats. I don't remember hearing about any other company being interested in Beats either. I'm not convinced that these guys are all that. Although I'm sure they they're great salesmen and have some of Steve Jobs RDF. 1smile.gif

 

Actually, I think Samsung would be very interested because they are trying to build their own platform and not depend on Android.

 

However Beats has always tried to complement Apple. The headsets came about because Dre felt that iPod earbuds were inadequate.  Beats Music came about because Iovine suggested it to Steve Jobs and Apple chose not to do it.  If Apple had done these things, Beats would not exist today.  This one of the reasons why they fit Apple like a glove.

post #126 of 215
Can everyone stop responding to Applesauce? He's clearly trolling- and winning due to the responses. Although saying beats being worth $300 billion in 2 years did make me chuckle.

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post #127 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


I assume you are being sarcastic.

If so, the same could be said of you, no?

 

I think it's pretty fair to say that Billboard knows something about the music business. Wouldn't you agree?

 

If this acquisition was only for the headphone business I'd agree with you 100% about Apple being in the best position to evaluate the business. The financials would tell you everything you need to know.

 

When you start talking about the value of individuals and about the value of a very fledgling business (streaming), then there are people in the music industry who might have as good an idea (or better) as Apple as to what all that might be worth and how solid it is.

 

I don't think that Apple ever offered $3.2 billion for this company. I think Apple was talking to Iovine and Dre and those two told Cook that amount as their price. Now Cook and Company are trying to figure out if it's worth it but it's a difficult task when it's not all about the numbers.

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post #128 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

People can legitimately complain about the strategy, the fit, and the two guys being hired (assuming any of this is true). I have done so myself.

But to suggest that $3.2B is an overvaluation is silly on its face. We have absolutely no idea what Beats's cash flows are.

If the numbers I've seen thrown around are true, this is a solid business business with solid profits. Even leaving synergies aside, a standalone valuation of $3.2 for the company might be more than amply justified.

The profit numbers we've heard puts valuation around $2b. Which is in line with the $3.2b purchase with foreign funds. There are no synergies with Beats and Apple outside of a tiny streaming service which is negligible. Anyone who claims there are synergies should also argue Apple should buy Logitech. It's an accessory maker that, if purchased, should operate independently. $2b real value would be a solid purchase price (again- based on the rumored numbers we've heard). If those numbers are different, then, clearly, Apple will adjust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah, you and the rest of us are likely to have a better handle on this than Apple does.

/s
I said something similar in the other thread regarding the tax laws- and that Apple's tax team has a better and more in depth understanding than you do- but you clearly argued that you knew exactly what they did. 1oyvey.gif

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post #129 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Me being arrogant?  How about you try not to be so ignorant?  Maybe that's the REAL problem.

 

You sound like you buy into the hype of Beats/Iovine and Dr. Dre.  I don't.  I don't have much respect for them other than they were successful at marketing some crappy headphones to a bunch of kids that don't really listen to music that's created by real musical instruments.  Most of today's pop music the kids are listening aren't generated by recording musical instruments, but rather noises to represent music and it's so processed, they really don't know what an acoustic piano REALLY sounds like, or any musical instrument being played without a ton of signal processing. Heck, they don't even know what a real singer sounds like since most of today's pop music the singer's voice goes through Auto Tune and Melodyne software to alter their mistakes to make someone who can't sing sound like they can.  That's the kind of crap most kids are listening to. Artificial garbage. It's been like that for about 20+ years, but has really done downhill in the last 10.  probably thanks to Dr. Dre and Iovine.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Intangibles?  Like what specifically? 

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

 

You go on and on and on... as if you actually know the deal... as if you actually know Beats... and Billboard...

 

... and yet, on the other hand, you also continue to tell us that Billboard wouldn't know certain things.

 

Well, they would certainly know a helluva lot more than you and you seem to be pretty cock sure that you know everything that is going on with this deal.

 

Hmmmmmm.... strange.

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post #130 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I don't think that Apple ever offered $3.2 billion for this company. I think Apple was talking to Iovine and Dre and those two told Cook that amount as their price. Now Cook and Company are trying to figure out if it's worth it but it's a difficult task when it's not all about the numbers.

I'm curious what you think hey get outside then numbers, island? Clearly, they get iovine and Dre- who have clout in the industry. But do they have more clout than Apple? And when they clearly work for Apple, how much does that clout work then? The labels are about money more than relationships- wouldn't you agree?

The streaming deals in place currently are voided with purchase, so there's little there- although having that streamer would be nice- not worth a ton, but a nice small synergy there.

The headphones are, well, headphones. No different than buying iHome.

I've been a detractor of this since I heard about it, but now that it sounds like the price could be smaller in terms of "real" money- I'm all about it. I think Beats are cool. Not for me, i have nice Shure headphones. But you can't deny their influence with the youth (and this is white, middle class+). I think having "Beats by Apple" would be great- particularly if they recoup heir money writhing the next 2-3 years. I'm all for it for the right price.

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post #131 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I said something similar in the other thread regarding the tax laws- and that Apple's tax team has a better and more in depth understanding than you do- but you clearly argued that you knew exactly what they did. 1oyvey.gif

I thought you said you were letting it go? Apparently not....

But since you brought it up, the issue with taxation of foreign income is a matter of the law and of regulation. The room for judgement is limited. The IRS goes after this sort of thing aggressively. Moreover, it was based on my checking with someone who spends his life working on issues of corporate taxation. He is an expert, which you are not.

Acquisition strategy and synergies are a matter of judgment, estimation, and forecasting. The difference between the two is like night and day.

Again, as I said before I don't expect you to see the difference (for if you did, you would not have brought it up).
post #132 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


I'm curious what you think hey get outside then numbers, island? Clearly, they get iovine and Dre- who have clout in the industry. But do they have more clout than Apple? And when they clearly work for Apple, how much does that clout work then? The labels are about money more than relationships- wouldn't you agree?

The streaming deals in place currently are voided with purchase, so there's little there- although having that streamer would be nice- not worth a ton, but a nice small synergy there.

The headphones are, well, headphones. No different than buying iHome.

I've been a detractor of this since I heard about it, but now that it sounds like the price could be smaller in terms of "real" money- I'm all about it. I think Beats are cool. Not for me, i have nice Shure headphones. But you can't deny their influence with the youth (and this is white, middle class+). I think having "Beats by Apple" would be great- particularly if they recoup heir money writhing the next 2-3 years. I'm all for it for the right price.

 

I've always said that I think this deal is bullshit.

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post #133 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


I think it's pretty fair to say that Billboard knows something about the music business. Wouldn't you agree?
........
When you start talking about the value of individuals and about the value of a very fledgling business ......

1) I think it's pretty fair to say that Apple knows something more about its strategy -- and the value of a business that, in its view, enhances that strategy -- than Billboard. Wouldn't you agree?

2) I'd like you to cut and paste exactly where I said anything about valuation of individuals or fledgling businesses. I did not. Please avoid making mis-attributions. Thanks.
post #134 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I've always said that I think this deal is bullshit.

Hah. Me too- lol. I just don't see these inflated "synergies" that people keep bringing up. I look at it as strictly a hardware deal, which is fine as long as the price makes since solely from a hardware stance; but again, why would Apple make a hardware deal? I was hoping you saw something didn't. 1biggrin.gif

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post #135 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Can everyone stop responding to Applesauce? He's clearly trolling- and winning due to the responses. Although saying beats being worth $300 billion in 2 years did make me chuckle.

 

Haha... You're a funny guy Andysol.  You look like an Android fan.  LOL

post #136 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


1) I think it's pretty fair to say that Apple knows something more about its strategy -- and the value of a business that, in its view, enhances that strategy -- than Billboard. Wouldn't you agree?

2) I'd like you to cut and paste exactly where I said anything about valuation of individuals or fledgling businesses. I did not. Please avoid making mis-attributions. Thanks.

 

1. Reread my first post. I said exactly the same thing. [sorry, when I said, "what it means to Cook and Apple personally"... that's what I meant... "personally" was just a bad choice of words]

 

2. Does it not seem that individuals and a fledgling streaming business are a part of this deal? Wouldn't that have to be a part of the valuation? Or do you suggest that Apple is only buying the headphone business?


Edited by island hermit - 5/25/14 at 8:00am
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post #137 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Haha... You're a funny guy Andysol.  You look like an Android fan.  LOL

I own two iMacs, a MacBook Pro, a Mac mini, two iPads, two iPhones, an iPod touch, time capsule, 3 airport expresses, and two Apple TVs, but.....


There, now I look like an android fan 1wink.gif

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post #138 of 215
What is it about Beats that brings the nastiness out.
post #139 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


1. Reread my first post. I said exactly the same thing. [sorry, when I said, "what it means to Cook and Apple personally"... that's what I meant... "personally" was just a bad choice of words]

2. Does it not seem that individuals and a fledgling streaming business are a part of this deal? Wouldn't that have to be a part of the valuation? Or do you suggest that Apple is only buying the headphone business?

1) Then I have no idea what you've been going on about.

2) Yes. Yes. No.

You need to reread my first post. This is all beside the point I was making.

One could argue, however, that if the headphone business alone will justify the price paid (given revenue, margins, growth, Apple branding and marketing, co-selling), the rest, including individuals and streaming and whatever else, is gravy. I was not saying it justifies the price paid, I was simply saying that none of knows since Beats's numbers are private.
post #140 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


1) Then I have no idea what you've been going on about.

2) Yes. Yes. No.

You need to reread my first post. This is all beside the point I was making.

One could argue, however, that if the headphone business alone will justify the price paid (given revenue, margins, growth, Apple branding and marketing, co-selling), the rest, including individuals and streaming and whatever else, is gravy. I was not saying it justifies the price paid, I was simply saying that none of knows since Beats's numbers are private.

 

1. You said that you never mentioned anything about individuals and fledling businesses.

 

2. Then I have no idea what you've been going on about.

 

I have always maintained that I think that buying the company for the revenue from the headphone business is very unApple. Apple got out of peripherals a long long time ago to focus on its core products.

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post #141 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post
 

Your childish opinion does not matter.  He is what he is, so grow up and deal with it.

 

Apple can most certainly use a man with Dr. Dre's credentials.

He has been on the various sides of the media industry and is a winner.

If you can't or refuse to understand that then tough luck.

 

From WikiPedia:

 

Dr. Dre, is an American record producer, rapper and entrepreneur. (Born in Compton, California)

He is the founder and current CEO of Aftermath Entertainment and Beats Electronics.

Dre was previously the co-owner of, and an artist on, Death Row Records.

He has produced albums for and overseen the careers of many rappers, including Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Xzibit, 50 Cent, The Game, and Kendrick Lamar.

Dr. Dre was ranked as the second richest figure in the American hip hop scene by Forbes with a net worth of $550 million.

Dr. Dre made his first on screen appearance as a weapons dealer in the 1996 bank robbery movie Set It Off.

Dr. Dre also appeared in the movies The Wash and Training Day.

Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine donated a $70 million endowment to the University of Southern California to create the USC Jimmy Iovine and Andre Young Academy for Arts, Technology and the Business of Innovation.

 

Grammy Awards

Year

Nominated work

Award

Result

1994

Nuthin' But a G Thang

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

1994

Let Me Ride

Best Rap Solo Performance

Won

1996

Keep There Heads Ringin'

Best Rap Solo Performance

Nominated

1997

California Love

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2000

Still D.R.E.

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2000

Guilty Conscience

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2001

Dr. Dre 2001

Best Rap Album

Nominated

2001

Himself

Producer of the Year

Won

2001

The Marshall Mathers LP

Album of the Year(as Producer)

Nominated

2001

The Marshall Mathers LP

Best Rap Album(as Producer)

Won

2001

Forgot About Dre

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Won

2001

The Next Episode

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2002

Himself

Producer of the Year

Nominated

2003

HImself

Producer of the Year

Nominated

2003

Knoc

Best Music Video, Short Form

Nominated

2006

Encore

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2010

Crack a Bottle

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Won

2010

Relapse

Best Rap Album (Producer)

Won

2012

I Need a Doctor

Best Rap Performance by a Duo or Group

Nominated

2012

I Need a Doctor

Best Rap Song

Nominated

 

MTV Video Music Awards

Year

Nominated work

Award

Result

1993

"Nuthin' But a G Thang"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1994

"Let Me Ride"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1995

"Keep Their Heads Ringin'"

Best Rap Video

Won

1996

"California Love"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1997

"Been There, Done That"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1997

"No Diggity"

Best Rap Video

Nominated

1997

"No Diggity"

Best R&B Video

Nominated

1999

"My Name Is"

Best Direction

Nominated

1999

"Guilty Conscience"

Best Breakthrough Video

Nominated

2000

"The Real Slim Shady"

Best Direction

Nominated

2000

"Forgot About Dre"

Best Rap Video

Won

2001

"Stan"

Best Direction

Nominated

 

Filmography

Films

Year

Title

Role

Notes

1992

Niggaz4Life: The Only Home Video

Himself

Documentary

1996

Set It Off

Black Sam

Minor Role

1999

Whiteboyz

Don Flip Crew #1

Minor Role

2000

Up In Smoke Tour

Himself

Concert Film

2001

Training Day

Paul

Minor Role

The Wash

Sean

Main Role

Video Games

Year

Title

Role

Notes

2005

50 Cent: Bulletproof

Grizz

Voice role and likeness

Well, it's obvious that you are ignorant,, childish and it's due to what you listen to.  I don't want Apple to just cater to the masses of intellectually stupid when it comes to music.

 

Seriously, do you think that the only kinds of music are both Rap AND HipHop?

 

Please don't respond to me on this issue anymore.  I can tell that you are acting like a teenager that has tunnel vision and only listens to rap and hip hop music which I pretty much avoid whenever possible.  I listen to music where the people are actually musicians playing real musical instruments.  When it comes to the music industry, if the producer or people on the album don't know how to play a musical instrument, that tells me they aren't musicians and they shouldn't be in the music industry.  Dr. Dre and most of the artists he produces don't know how to play a musical instrument, they just sequence noises and samples of OTHER people's performances.  That's not an honest way of creating music.

post #142 of 215

If Apple is really thinking about acqui-hiring Iovine and Dre as consultants because Apple is at sea when it comes to the music business, then who is consulting Apple about the hiring of these two and what they are actually worth.

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post #143 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

 

 

You go on and on and on... as if you actually know the deal... as if you actually know Beats... and Billboard...

 

... and yet, on the other hand, you also continue to tell us that Billboard wouldn't know certain things.

 

Well, they would certainly know a helluva lot more than you and you seem to be pretty cock sure that you know everything that is going on with this deal.

 

Hmmmmmm.... strange.

 

I can read various information about Beats and the music industry. Yet you make statements about the value of the intangibles of Beats, yet you don't even list what these intangibles are.

 

I know enough about the Company and the people behind it to formulate my own decisions on whether it's a deal Apple should or needs to do or not and if they are paying a reasonable amount of money for them.  I personally don't think they should enter the deal, but it maybe too late for that and since I'm not Cook & Co., it's not my decision.  Even though I like Apple and many of the products they make, and I use nothing but their products when it comes to computers, smartphones, tablets,  upper management doesn't always make the best decisions all of the time, so as it stands I see no real reason for Apple to buy Beats.  I think they don't NEED to enter the headphone market in a big way and if they did, they could do much better in terms of buying a company that actually makes high quality products and they have the ability to market the products and sell quite a bit without too much trouble.  Much of Beats success is because Apple Stores stock their products and have them on display.  If Apple dropped Beats headphones and replaced them with other brands, then Beats headphone sales would drop off because one of the largest retail stores that sells music players doesn't carry the product.  It's a shame that they sell because they are seen as a fashion product rather than a great sounding product.  But unfortunately, kids that buy Beats headphones are more into becoming socially accepted and they buy what is the latest fad instead of seeking out what is the best quality.

 

DJ's aren't musicians, so I don't look at DJ's as a source of finding out what to use.  They typically don't listen for accuracy since their PA systems are usually just catering to kids that are drunk/high on drugs that can't hear anything so they have to turn up the volume of the music to ear splitting levels with so much bass, it becomes annoying unless your high as a kite.

 

If I were to choose a headphone, I would look to see what the best recording engineers use when making high quality recordings of classical music and other recordings where sonic accuracy is what they are striving for.   Some people in the music industry only want to sell the most albums to the kids that buy them.  Some just want to make the best quality recordings of the finest musicians because they want to preserve the performance of top quality musicians.   Two different approaches to music. I prefer quality over quantity.

 

For listening to accurate sound recordings of acoustic instruments, the recording engineers are going to use something like the Sennheiser HD800's which are some of the most accurate sounding headphones on the market, or there are other high end headphone mfg like Grado, Stax, Audeze and few others where accurate sound reproduction is what they are going after.  That's how I would look for a headphone when it comes to listening to music.  I don't like artificial sounding audio systems, to me that's not accurately reproducing the music that was performed and recorded.  If you want your music to be artificial, then that's your decision.  I prefer music created by musicians rather than non-musicians.  

post #144 of 215
Just trying to kill a Sunday afternoon here.

1- Iovine and Dre are music people. They're not TV/Movie people. They are useless contacts for iTV or iMovie.

2- Iovine and Dre are record label insiders. They are useless to artists like me who decline to be signed to a label. I don't trust their sincerity in promoting my catalog since their loyalties are primarily to themselves and record label buddies.

3- Mostly don't care if Apple buys Beats. Don't know what the correct valuation is. Prefer to see Apple headphones with an "a" on each side of the headset. If there weren't a market for Apple products before Beats acquisition among Urban music fans and teens there won't be any afterward... There will be many complaints if Apple improves Beats since it deviates from the co-founders original line-up, a perceived signal that they weren't talented enough for the big leagues as promoted by their fans.

4- On-Demand Streaming Music is not profitable even if Apple has 800 million streaming subscribers. There are roughly 123 million CD/download buyers in the USA according to NPD Group. 44 million of these are downloaders. RIAA says there are 6 million paid streaming subscribers in USA. ITunes American music customers spend on average $78 per year on music downloads. A streaming subscription is $120 per year. How big do you really think this market is? 25% of digital music market?
post #145 of 215

Why not get Alicia Keys, she's done wonders for BlackBerry.

post #146 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AICow View Post
 

Why not get Alicia Keys, she's done wonders for BlackBerry.

What are you talking about?  If Apple NEEDED celebrities to help market their product, I think that Apple would get a variety of different well respected people from different facets of the industry to help market their products.  But Apple has only used a few celebrities to help market their products in the past, but they can EASILY get top name celebrities to market a line of headphones or a subscription service if they want to go with the "monkey see, monkey do" marketing strategy.  Apple doesn't NEED Dr. Dre and/or Iovine to do this.  The thing is, that Apple, up to now, only does a minimal effort in headphones, since they see that as an accessory product that they would much rather allow the 3rd party crowd to make.   Apple hasn't really focused much on that, just like they didn't really spend much time focusing on cases for iPhones and iPads, they do a minimal effort just to offer something and then they open the doors for the 3rd party crowd to offer products, for which they sell in their stores.

 

Headphones are an accessory and not everyone that buys Apple products buys headphones.  Some do and they prefer other brands.  Same thing with earbuds.  IF you really want to know what the top singers and performers are using on a professional level, they use custom made Ultimate Ears, Westone, JH Audio, Alclair, ClearTuneMonitors, 1964 Ears, Gorilla Ears, Alien Ears, Livewires, and several other custom earbuds.  That's what the majority of singers, musicians wear when they perform.  They are VERY expensive, they are custom made and they sound unbelievable.  But the average Joe Schmoe doesn't spend $1000+ on a pair of custom made earbuds.  But if you want the best, that's what they USE when they go into the studio or for live performances.  That's they REALLY use and they gotta pay for them.  I don't think Apple wants to go after the custom earbud market since the average Joe doesn't want to spend $1000+ on earbuds.  For that market, I think Ultimate Ears are the preferred choice.  I think Logitech owns that company, but their products are RIPPING expensive.  I think their cheapest ones are still expensive, plus you have to get ear molds made and they are custom ordered product. But that's what these celebrities use on stage if they are going to use earbuds.

 

You want to buy a product because your favorite artist uses them professionally?  Then go find your favorite artist, figure out what product they use and use that.  The problem is that they hear music differently than you do, and they have their own personal taste that might be different than yours.

 

post #147 of 215

Wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

What are you talking about?  If Apple NEEDED celebrities to help market their product, I think that Apple would get a variety of different well respected people from different facets of the industry to help market their products.  But Apple has only used a few celebrities to help market their products in the past, but they can EASILY get top name celebrities to market a line of headphones or a subscription service if they want to go with the "monkey see, monkey do" marketing strategy.  Apple doesn't NEED Dr. Dre and/or Iovine to do this.  The thing is, that Apple, up to now, only does a minimal effort in headphones, since they see that as an accessory product that they would much rather allow the 3rd party crowd to make.   Apple hasn't really focused much on that, just like they didn't really spend much time focusing on cases for iPhones and iPads, they do a minimal effort just to offer something and then they open the doors for the 3rd party crowd to offer products, for which they sell in their stores.

 

Headphones are an accessory and not everyone that buys Apple products buys headphones.  Some do and they prefer other brands.  Same thing with earbuds.  IF you really want to know what the top singers and performers are using on a professional level, they use custom made Ultimate Ears, Westone, JH Audio, Alclair, ClearTuneMonitors, 1964 Ears, Gorilla Ears, Alien Ears, Livewires, and several other custom earbuds.  That's what the majority of singers, musicians wear when they perform.  They are VERY expensive, they are custom made and they sound unbelievable.  But the average Joe Schmoe doesn't spend $1000+ on a pair of custom made earbuds.  But if you want the best, that's what they USE when they go into the studio or for live performances.  That's they REALLY use and they gotta pay for them.  I don't think Apple wants to go after the custom earbud market since the average Joe doesn't want to spend $1000+ on earbuds.  For that market, I think Ultimate Ears are the preferred choice.  I think Logitech owns that company, but their products are RIPPING expensive.  I think their cheapest ones are still expensive, plus you have to get ear molds made and they are custom ordered product. But that's what these celebrities use on stage if they are going to use earbuds.

 

You want to buy a product because your favorite artist uses them professionally?  Then go find your favorite artist, figure out what product they use and use that.  The problem is that they hear music differently than you do, and they have their own personal taste that might be different than yours.

 

Wow. I've learned my lesson to always indicate sarcasm...

post #148 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AICow View Post
 

Why not get Alicia Keys, she's done wonders for BlackBerry.

The only reason why Apple would hire those two numbskulls is because it's part of the buyout deal. Apple may have delayed the deal because MAYBE they don't want them as they don't really NEED them, but if they want to buy INTO the headphone business and destroy the Beats name, then they have to pony up the money to do it. but maybe Dr. Dre's little drunken video stunt proved to Apple that they may not want Dr. Dre part of their business because that's not what Apple stands for.  At least that's my take on the situation.  Whether they have Iovine as a consultant or an actual employee, that's probably part of the negotiation to buy the company, take what they want, remove the name Beats from the equation after they've figured out what they want to do, and then after so many years, the name "Beats" is like the name Yugo. The punch line for many jokes...

 

I'm sure we'll all find out the reality of this deal, if/when it actually happens.  But, Apple created the biggest digital download site in history without Dr. Dre and Iovine being part of Apple.

post #149 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AICow View Post
 

Wow

Wow. I've learned my lesson to always indicate sarcasm...

There wasn't any sarcasm involved in this.  It's just the facts about this industry.

 

Apple created iTunes which is the most successful digital download service.  They just haven't gone after the subscription service.  If they want to, it's just getting the contracts to pay the same rate everyone else does, making the changes to the software and then doing some advertising, but they don't need either of these two to do it.


Headphones, same thing. They can easily capture a healthy amount of business if they really wanted to go after the headphone market.

 

Apple could spend less money and accomplish the same outcome without buying Beats.  it's just a quicker way to enter the market, that's all it really is.

post #150 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

There wasn't any sarcasm involved in this.  It's just the facts about this industry.

 

Apple created iTunes which is the most successful digital download service.  They just haven't gone after the subscription service.  If they want to, it's just getting the contracts to pay the same rate everyone else does, making the changes to the software and then doing some advertising, but they don't need either of these two to do it.


Headphones, same thing. They can easily capture a healthy amount of business if they really wanted to go after the headphone market.

 

Apple could spend less money and accomplish the same outcome without buying Beats.  it's just a quicker way to enter the market, that's all it really is.

Your entire story makes no sense at all. Why does Apple want to get into the headphone business? For the profits and revenue, or to make a great product? I doubt they want to sell oversized headphones so much that they want to acquire Beats, because they like simplicity, (small, free, headphones ). Apple doesn't sell accessories, because they want a complete product experience out of the box, with the focus being on the Mac, iPhone, iPad, iPod.

post #151 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Well, it's obvious that you are ignorant,, childish and it's due to what you listen to.  I don't want Apple to just cater to the masses of intellectually stupid when it comes to music.

 

Seriously, do you think that the only kinds of music are both Rap AND HipHop?

 

Please don't respond to me on this issue anymore.  I can tell that you are acting like a teenager that has tunnel vision and only listens to rap and hip hop music which I pretty much avoid whenever possible.  I listen to music where the people are actually musicians playing real musical instruments.  When it comes to the music industry, if the producer or people on the album don't know how to play a musical instrument, that tells me they aren't musicians and they shouldn't be in the music industry.  Dr. Dre and most of the artists he produces don't know how to play a musical instrument, they just sequence noises and samples of OTHER people's performances.  That's not an honest way of creating music.

 

Actually I am not a big fan of rap music, but I can respect where the lyrics and the music come from; vulgarism included.

I actually appreciate some rap music because I think the world needs to hear it.  Rap is an important and integral part of the US and the world.

Some people get all emotional when they hear or see things that are unusual to them.  That's a weakness not a strength.

 

I suggest that you put your credentials next his and honestly ask yourself who has accomplished more positives in the world in their life time.

 

I don't know how old some of you folks are but you really need to grow up.  Seriously.

post #152 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AICow View Post
 

Your entire story makes no sense at all. Why does Apple want to get into the headphone business? For the profits and revenue, or to make a great product? I doubt they want to sell oversized headphones so much that they want to acquire Beats, because they like simplicity, (small, free, headphones ). Apple doesn't sell accessories, because they want a complete product experience out of the box, with the focus being on the Mac, iPhone, iPad, iPod.

If Apple wants to go after the headphone market they have different options. One is to buy another company, which in this case is Beats. The  other method is buying another company for a lot less money, OR doing it themselves by just hiring their own engineers and finding someone to make them.

 

Now, if you talk to the crowd of people that want the best sounding headphones, Beats isn't the brand they prefer.  The brands they prefer are more expensive and they are better sounding because they are more accurate and don't color the music you are listening to.  Again, the notion that Beats makes the best product is total nonsense.

 

Beats is more of a fashion line of headphones that were successfully marketed to largely kids that look up to rappers, DJs, and certain people that are easily manipulated.  Plus Beats have the most shelf space at the local Apple Store.

 

So, what's the other aspect of buying Beats?  The Beats Music store, which is not doing all that well.  So,  again, there really isn't any reason to buy Beats unless they want to buy into the headphone market rather than doing it another way which would take longer.

 

But as a general rule, Apple typically only offers accessories for their main product lines that are minimal at best.  They usually let the 3rd party companies deal with accessories and Apple sells whatever they want to sell in their own stores to augment their normal business.

 

I honestly don't see why Apple really wants to buy Beats. I think it could backfire on them due to Dr. Dre's rapper mentality.  There is a facet of the music industry and other industries that Apple sells to that don't like the rap/hip hop culture that Apple sells a lot of products to.

 

I could think they might want to prevent Google or Microsoft from buying them is another reason.  But Im sure we'll only find out half of the truth because Apple will spin the buyout (if it actually happens) the way they want to spin it, and we may not know the entire truth behind it.

 

I think it's a mistake and there are others that think the same as I do, and there are others that want the buyout, either way, it's not our decision, it's Apple's. Good or bad all we can do is analyze it and interject our own thoughts on whether it's a good or bad idea and conjure up our own reasoning as to why we feel a certain way.  All I'm doing is explaining why I think they don't need to buy Beats and how they can go after their market if they really want to.

 

There are plenty of markets that Apple isn't in, because it's not their expertise or what they want to do.  

 

I'm confident that if Apple really wanted to go after the headphone market, they could easily do it without buying Beats, it would just take longer.  But the thing is, how long would it take to recoup the $3.2 Billion if they bought Beats?  My guess is that it would take about 10 years since they don't make huge Net Profits.  It might take a little less or a little more than that, but that's my guess until I found out more about the financials of Beats.

 

Now, if they took less money and designed their own line of headphones, removed Beats from the Apple Stores, how long would it take to bring in equal amounts of profits, how much would they have to spend and could Apple do just as well in less time spending the same amount or less money?  I think Apple could capture quite a bit of marketshare/profits within 10 years.  It only took Beats a few years to get where they were, so I think with Apple's leverage and way they sell products, it wouldn't take Apple 10 years do accomplish the same results.

 

How much time and money does it take to design a line of headphones?  A few years and probably a few million dollars, then it's a few million dollars to build the mfg facilities, which Monster probably could do for them, if they wanted to.  Heck, Monster's a free agent.  They designed the products in the first place, so if Apple wanted to have their own products designed and mfg, they could go to Monster, get a full product line out within a couple of years spending a LOT less money, and then replacing Beats headphones with Apple designed (Monster mfg) products and accomplish the same end result.  That's another possibility.

 

Or Apple could buy any number of headphone mfg and redesign the product line and take 10 years to recoup the investment and bring in equal profits.

 

Any time a company buys another, it takes time to recoup that money, in this case, it may take 10 years, does Apple really need to buy into the headphone market in this manner or are there other ways to do it that cost less, and have the same end result?  I think Apple could do just as good a job without wasting $3.2 Billion, it would just take a little longer to enter the market, but they wouldn't have to recoup as much to see the real profits roll in.

post #153 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post

Jeez.. doesn't anyone have a sense of humor around here?

post #154 of 215
Do we even know if apple is the company planning to buy beats? It is amazing how the media condemns apple over any rumor and forecasts their demise. Do you really need 10% growth when you are earning 50billion a year?
post #155 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post
 

 

Actually I am not a big fan of rap music, but I can respect where the lyrics and the music come from; vulgarism included.

I actually appreciate some rap music because I think the world needs to hear it.  Rap is an important and integral part of the US and the world.

Some people get all emotional when they hear or see things that are unusual to them.  That's a weakness not a strength.

 

I suggest that you put your credentials next his and honestly ask yourself who has accomplished more positives in the world in their life time.

 

I don't know how old some of you folks are but you really need to grow up.  Seriously.

 

Just because it exists doesn't mean it should be a part of our society and put on a pedestal like its' the best thing since sliced bread.

 

It's not created by musicians which to me, being a musician, is what SHOULD be promote by the music industry.

 

I don't promote the use of vulgar language in music, I don't promote the listening of buying 'music" that's created by people that can't play a musical instrument, nor do I promote people to call woman the B word or people the N word.  What he does is NOT positive for society.  Just like the Grateful Dead promoting the use of LSD and other major drugs was positive.

 

Our society has to PAY for their mistakes by not getting a good education and putting out someone of quality.

 

I don't think THEY need to be heard above those that have spent years learning how to play musical instruments that don't resort to vulgarity in music.  

 

Of all of Dr. Dre's accomplishments, they are meaningless to me.  Why? Nothing he has marketed and sold is positive for our society.

 

I don't buy into this marketed BS they call music.  It's not enjoyable to listen to, it's not sending positive messages and they aren't positive role models for kids to grow up in.  The only thing these rap artists are saying is "i don't need an education, i don't need to learn how to play a musical instrument to make a lot of money putting out music that's vulgar and disgusting".   They are basically telling people, such as myself, that our money that we spend trying to educate children is a waste of money and we have to then spend MORE money building prisons and spending a lot more money giving them the education they SHOULD have gotten in public schools because they threw away their chance to be positive role models in society.  Sorry, but you bought into their crap and I will NEVER buy into it.

 

Oh and Iovnine got a honorary PhD shortly after he gave the university tens of millions of dollars, but Dr. Dre didn't get one.  Buying a college degree like that is the chicken $hit route of getting that piece of paper.  Some of us do it the old fashioned way, we earn it. All they are saying is flipping everyone off that earns their degree or their ability to learn how to play a musical instrument.  Iovine went into being an engineer because he wasn't a great musician and lucked into it. but there are far more respected engineers that spend their whole life dedicated to putting out high quality recordings, but the aren't going after the fame and fortune by marketing themselves.

post #156 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post
 

 

Actually I am not a big fan of rap music, but I can respect where the lyrics and the music come from; vulgarism included.

I actually appreciate some rap music because I think the world needs to hear it.  Rap is an important and integral part of the US and the world.

Some people get all emotional when they hear or see things that are unusual to them.  That's a weakness not a strength.

 

I suggest that you put your credentials next his and honestly ask yourself who has accomplished more positives in the world in their life time.

 

I don't know how old some of you folks are but you really need to grow up.  Seriously.

Do you use Apple products?  Well, some of the features in Apple products were a direct result of me sending Jobs some emails suggesting certain features be put into it, but I'm not going to tell you which ones, because I'm not seeing this as who can piss longer.

 

I can formulate my own idea of who to look up to and who not to.  Dr. Dre and Iovine are not who I would look up to as a role model in the music industry.  There are plenty of others that deserve that more than these two.  Same thing with successful business people, there are others that are far more honest in how they made their impact on society.

 

I hate watching kids with their underwear hanging out, where did they get that from?  The rap/hiphop culture. Yeah, great, that shows some real intelligence doesn't it?  they should change the laws to make that something called indecent exposure.  Yeah, like that's going to be an approved dress code at Apple.  Yeah right.  Rappers and hip hoppers need to grow up, get a solid education and if they want to create music, then pick up a freaking instrument and learn how to play it and maybe create something worth buying. Or do something else that's positive for society instead of sounding and looking like some rejects because you don't want to get a decent education that people like me, that pays taxes pays for.

post #157 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

I can read various information about Beats and the music industry.

 

I know enough about the Company and the people behind it to formulate my own decisions on whether it's a deal Apple should or needs to do or not and if they are paying a reasonable amount of money for them.

 

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.  

 

I rest my case.

Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #158 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Just because it exists doesn't mean it should be a part of our society and put on a pedestal like its' the best thing since sliced bread.

 

It's not created by musicians which to me, being a musician, is what SHOULD be promote by the music industry.

 

I don't promote the use of vulgar language in music, I don't promote the listening of buying 'music" that's created by people that can't play a musical instrument, nor do I promote people to call woman the B word or people the N word.  What he does is NOT positive for society.  Just like the Grateful Dead promoting the use of LSD and other major drugs was positive.

 

Our society has to PAY for their mistakes by not getting a good education and putting out someone of quality.

 

I don't think THEY need to be heard above those that have spent years learning how to play musical instruments that don't resort to vulgarity in music.  

 

Art is the result from a society, it's rarely ever forming societies. People did not only start shooting Indians after seeing a Western, there were mass murderers before film was even invented, there was child abuse before the first picture was taken and women have been exploited and suppressed since the beginning of time. Rap / HipHop is commentary, the origins of it (think Gil Scott-Heron or Linton Kwesi Johnson) earned world-wide recognition and respect. Are there lousy rappers and posers etc.? Sure, just as there are droves of lousy Country musicians, lousy pop singers and even extremely mediocre classical musicians. But just because I hate peanut butter, you can still eat it.

 

Freedom of expression is one of the highest values somewhat free societies have achieved. This includes the possibility of stuff you do not like, or do not want to hear. It does not make your definition of music, or your definition of what is vulgar relevant for anybody. Without vulgar guys like Elvis or Little Richard we would maybe still have our wives and husbands chosen by our parents, ask religious nuts for what is right and what is wrong, and accept that any demands for happiness and freedom can wait for the afterlife. Music and other arts have been constantly evolving since we left the caves; assuming this will just stop and remain the same till the end of time won't work. And mostly that's good.

 

B and N words are just words, code. They can mean anything depending on the actual context, they are only vulgar because of what you associate with them. Getting hung up on semantics does not help. The Spanish Inquisition, the North American witch hunters, the slave owners, the Khmer Rouge, the Nazis etc ad inf used perfectly appropriate language. Most people would not say that they were positive for society. The only truly vulgar words are those chosen to hide the truth and manipulate.

post #159 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Do you use Apple products?  Well, some of the features in Apple products were a direct result of me sending Jobs some emails suggesting certain features be put into it, but I'm not going to tell you which ones, because I'm not seeing this as who can piss longer.

 

I can formulate my own idea of who to look up to and who not to.  Dr. Dre and Iovine are not who I would look up to as a role model in the music industry.  There are plenty of others that deserve that more than these two.  Same thing with successful business people, there are others that are far more honest in how they made their impact on society.

 

I hate watching kids with their underwear hanging out, where did they get that from?  The rap/hiphop culture. Yeah, great, that shows some real intelligence doesn't it?  they should change the laws to make that something called indecent exposure.  Yeah, like that's going to be an approved dress code at Apple.  Yeah right.  Rappers and hip hoppers need to grow up, get a solid education and if they want to create music, then pick up a freaking instrument and learn how to play it and maybe create something worth buying. Or do something else that's positive for society instead of sounding and looking like some rejects because you don't want to get a decent education that people like me, that pays taxes pays for.

 

Yes.  Big time. I personally have an iMac, a Mac Mini, 2 iPads, an iPhones and 5 AppleTVs.  (not to mention retired hardware and what I purchase for others.)

 

I think it's OK not to lookup to someone and to have your own standards of morality etc...

I bet there are a lot of things that Steve Jobs did and said that many people would not lookup to.  

But he was still a great CEO and visionary when you put aside some other things that he did.  

The man is well known as Apple's creator and savior ...and deservingly so. (Not to mention Iovine's and Dr Dre's friend)

 

Surely you don't think Tim Cook would hire an executive to just rap all day in an office do you? :lol:  Let alone degrade Apple in anyway...

Unless of course people are willing to pay Apple big bucks to come watch him rap all day... :lol:  Next quarters earnings would be great.  Go Apple!

Wow! Angela Ahrendts could put a rap artist in every Apple store. Put 2 in the NY and LA stores and put 2 Gangnam Style in asian stores. :lol:

 


Edited by AppleSauce007 - 5/25/14 at 4:36pm
post #160 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

I rest my case.

 

You didn't have a case in the first place. I think it would be hilarious is Apple didn't buy Beats, went to Monster to help them design and mfg a line of headphones (spending only a few million) and then replacing all of the Beats headphones in all of the Apple Stores, then marketing them and then watching Beats headphone sales drop like a rock and Apple headphones outsell Beats headphones and Dr. Dre ends up broke. And while that's happening, Apple starts their own subscription service, captures the majority of the market while Beats Music continually loses money until the place is shut down.

 

That would be great if Cook & Co. woke up and smelled the coffee on this one.

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