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post #201 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Marketing only goes so far. Young people don't want to listen to classical music and you can't recondition them to.
They didn't hire Dre to promote rap music or its associated culture.
There's a difference between someone using those phrases towards people in a demeaning way directly and when used in a song or in casual conversation. You can for example tell someone to f* off, which would be offensive or you can say 'wtf was that' in casual conversation. The f* isn't offensive in an absolute way.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bobdylan/hurricane.html

"To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy n*****
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger
And though they could not produce the gun"

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bobdylan/earlyromankings.html

"I can dress up your wounds
With a blood-clotted rag
I ain't afraid to make love
To a bitch or a hag"
Rap music has a rhythm to it.

So do nursery rhymes. But music has both rhythm and melody, etc. etc.  Go hum the melody line of a rap song and you basically get kind of a kindergarten nursery rhyme.  Kind of immature childish c-rap.  Just saying.........

You don't need to post the videos, we got your point.  They are thug mentality pushing c-rap on the unsuspecting children that will most likely end up with dead end jobs, in/out of prison, etc. etc.   Just saying...........

 

Well, if our school systems and companies like Apple, that are big in the music sales industry, it would be a lot better if we had more awareness and education in MUSIC.  Kids get into Rap in junior high school and high school because the school systems don't always have mandated music education or don't have any to begin with.  Which is a problem, these school systems spend too much money on promoting sports than music and listening to classical music, improvisational jazz has been tested by various psychologist to help improve learning skills amongst kids.  Why?  They say it excites portions of the brain that are that kind of required for higher learning.  So, if you just want mind numbing c-rap, then stand in line for your fake music otherwise, get educated in music so you can have a better way of deciding what is good/bad vs just sucking into the marketing hype.  If it's highly marketed, chances are it's junk.  I usually find the best products by word of mouth, same goes with music.  If it's popular with the masses, that usually tells me it's based on things that are of little substance.  McDonald's sells the most hamburgers, but they are barely classified as the best amongst the food critics.   You want to eat McDonalds and all of the other most popular products?  Welcome to the mediocre part of society.  Enjoy the dumbing down of society, because that's what c-rap music does. It makes ya dumb.

post #202 of 215
Someone should get off his high-horse. Music taste is learned at home and from the radio. You listen to what you like.
post #203 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Someone should get off his high-horse. Music taste is learned at home and from the radio. You listen to what you like.

WEll, some of use go to school and colleges to learn how to listen and appreciate music, some of it comes from home, friends, other musicians, music teachers.  So you have a basic understanding of what music is if you don't study music and various music genres that have musical theory behind it to actually understand what music really is.

 

Classical and jazz music doesn't get much radio play.


Think of it this way, the pop music is generally listened to by teenagers and young kids.  Classical music is listened to by adults and kids that are growing up getting classically trained.   Many jazz greats grew up getting a classical training.  Each country may have their own schools of teaching music.  If you are kid in Japan and you are learning how to play a musical instrument, they are getting their kids to the point where they can compete on a Global scale with the top musicians.  There are 12 year old girls that can play guitar, violin, piano, drums, etc. wit the same level or higher virtuosity than just about anyone in the pop music world and to them, that's normal. 

 

If you want to be musically ignorant your whole life, that's a personal decision.  I don't, I choose to learn and to keep on learning, so while you might see me as snobbish, i will see you as ignorant.  ignorance is simply not knowing. So if you want to be that way, then go around not knowing and I'll going around continually learning.  It's a life long decision.

 

Well, i got exposed to classical, blues, rock, jazz, latin, funk, R&B, classical indian music when I started listening and studying music around 1968.  I've taken college courses, private lessons and have played on a semi-professional level with others ranging from local musicians to some that have cut many albums and have played with top people, so I kind of have some sense of how to pick quality in music, that's my background.  What have you studied and for what period of time? What's your basis of deciding what is good and positive?  What's on the radio?  Hahaha.  That's generally the worst place to find out what the best is. It's the easiest, but it's not the best way to find out about music.  It's the easiest way to find out what the most popular and the most played is in terms of pop and country music.

 

A lot of what becomes popular many times ends up sounding STUPID.  Do you remember Achy Breaky Heart by Billy Ray Cyrus? Or the Macarena? or some other silly song that made it as a pop hit?  Now we make fun of that stuff.  I made fun of it when it came because it sounded dumb the first time I heard it.  Those were HUGE pop hits when they came out, they were played all over the radio, but they were for the musically inept. Pop music many times becomes just a passing fad.  what rap song is considered a "classic" that people still listen to 20 and 30 years later? Not many if at all.  Why?  Not much to really enjoy.   Yeah, like these rappers are going to get on stage in their 60's and 70's with their BS rap songs from 40 years earlier.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.   They'll look REAL pathetic.


Edited by drblank - 5/29/14 at 11:17am
post #204 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

WEll, some of use go to school and colleges to learn how to listen and appreciate music, some of it comes from home, friends, other musicians, music teachers.  So you have a basic understanding of what music is if you don't study music and various music genres that have musical theory behind it to actually understand what music really is.

Classical and jazz music doesn't get much radio play.


Think of it this way, the pop music is generally listened to by teenagers and young kids.  Classical music is listened to by adults and kids that are growing up getting classically trained.   Many jazz greats grew up getting a classical training.  Each country may have their own schools of teaching music.  If you are kid in Japan and you are learning how to play a musical instrument, they are getting their kids to the point where they can compete on a Global scale with the top musicians.  There are 12 year old girls that can play guitar, violin, piano, drums, etc. wit the same level or higher virtuosity than just about anyone in the pop music world and to them, that's normal. 

If you want to be musically ignorant your whole life, that's a personal decision.  I don't, I choose to learn and to keep on learning, so while you might see me as snobbish, i will see you as ignorant.  ignorance is simply not knowing. So if you want to be that way, then go around not knowing and I'll going around continually learning.  It's a life long decision.

Well, i got exposed to classical, blues, rock, jazz, latin, funk, R&B, classical indian music when I started listening and studying music around 1968.  I've taken college courses, private lessons and have played on a semi-professional level with others ranging from local musicians to some that have cut many albums and have played with top people, so I kind of have some sense of how to pick quality in music, that's my background.  What have you studied and for what period of time? What's your basis of deciding what is good and positive?  What's on the radio?  Hahaha.  That's generally the worst place to find out what the best is. It's the easiest, but it's not the best way to find out about music.  It's the easiest way to find out what the most popular and the most played is in terms of pop and country music.

First of all, i don't know how you breathe with the lack of O2 where your nose is. Secondly, I'm not a fan or rap/hip hop but that doesn't mean I denigrate its listeners. Thirdly, you think it's the music that causes "thuggery" and not the environment? Fourthly, since when were you appointed the arbiter of good taste.
post #205 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Classical and jazz music doesn't get much radio play.

Because people don't like it as much as other genres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

If you want to be musically ignorant your whole life, that's a personal decision.  I don't, I choose to learn and to keep on learning, so while you might see me as snobbish, i will see you as ignorant.  ignorance is simply not knowing.

You're trying to equate knowledge with preference, which is elitist. It would be like saying only educated people like strawberry ice-cream, that's not how preferences work.

You seem to think that if people are exposed to jazz and classical music more that they will like it more. By the same measure, if you were more exposed to rap, would you like it more? Clearly not.

People who like rap are not uneducated, ignorant or criminals by default nor is it an either/or situation. People can appreciate every genre of music including rap and classical at the same time.
post #206 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


First of all, i don't know how you breathe with the lack of O2 where your nose is. Secondly, I'm not a fan or rap/hip hop but that doesn't mean I denigrate its listeners. Thirdly, you think it's the music that causes "thuggery" and not the environment? Fourthly, since when were you appointed the arbiter of good taste.

If it degrades the music industry and our society, then I stand up and tell the truth.  It is what it is.  Deal with it.  LEARN what is positive for our society and what isn't.

 

Who appointed you? You don't even have any background in playing music, do you?  So, how could you possible be a good judge of music?  Because it's on the radio? 


Jungmark, some of us just simply aren't easily brainwashed by marketing hype.  Obviously you think Tim Cook or Eddy Cue know everything about music because of iTunes popularity or Apple's popularity?   I highly doubt Tim Cook is looking at this from a music educational standpoint as he's just getting suckered into it because of the MONEY and they wanted to BUY INTO the subscription service and the headphone industry probably because of Eddy Cue's influence instead of them finding out what's the most socially responsible way of doing this.

 

I think this is the second saddest day in Apple history, the first was the day Steve passed away.   And I've been using Apple products since the beginning and have seen this company go through the ups and downs, mistakes, successes, and what they did, in my eyes, is set Apple back and is basically giving the company a big giant F in the world of music.  They got suckered into some of the worst this industry has to offer, IMO.

 

Deal with it.  I would NEVER tolerate the hiring of someone that routinely sells music degrading women, people, and society, which is what Dre stands for.  it's the lyrics of his music and if you think differently than i, then I can't really educate you on what I plainly see.

 

You just seem to come up with flawed excuses and put downs due to your lack of ability to see what I and others plainly see. I'm not the only one that thinks this way, there are others.  They just may not say anything about it publicly.  I just downgraded Cook's ability to lead Apple from a B/B+ down to a D-.  That's my rating system and it's not just based on MONEY, it's also based on SOCIAL responsibility.  That he's failed all of us.

post #207 of 215
Blah blah blah racism blah blah blah.

I never said I was the arbiter of good taste in music. I've played the violin when I was younger. Not that that proves anything.

Beatles promoted getting high on drugs but they're white so it's okay. As seen above, Dylan and Cash also had some "bad lyrics" but you make excuses.

Oh sell your stock and quite whining.
post #208 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Because people don't like it as much as other genres.
You're trying to equate knowledge with preference, which is elitist. It would be like saying only educated people like strawberry ice-cream, that's not how preferences work.

You seem to think that if people are exposed to jazz and classical music more that they will like it more. By the same measure, if you were more exposed to rap, would you like it more? Clearly not.

People who like rap are not uneducated, ignorant or criminals by default nor is it an either/or situation. People can appreciate every genre of music including rap and classical at the same time.

Whatever.  You are talking about exceptions, not the norm.

 

I don't know of too many classically trained musicians that perform in concerts with rappers. It's not the norm.  It's the exception and it's not what's the most popular rap.


I think you are just deciding to be ignorant about this and just coughing up excuses for your ignorance.  Too bad.  Oh well, that's not my problem.  That's your problem.

post #209 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I don't know of too many classically trained musicians that perform in concerts with rappers. It's not the norm.

That's not what the comment was referring to, someone can have a playlist with multiple genres of music and appreciate all of them. There's no class system where you either only like rap and are a criminal or you only like classical music and are some highly educated musical aficionado.
post #210 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Classical and jazz music doesn't get much radio play.

Because people don't like it as much as other genres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

If you want to be musically ignorant your whole life, that's a personal decision.  I don't, I choose to learn and to keep on learning, so while you might see me as snobbish, i will see you as ignorant.  ignorance is simply not knowing.

You're trying to equate knowledge with preference, which is elitist. It would be like saying only educated people like strawberry ice-cream, that's not how preferences work.

You seem to think that if people are exposed to jazz and classical music more that they will like it more. By the same measure, if you were more exposed to rap, would you like it more? Clearly not.

People who like rap are not uneducated, ignorant or criminals by default nor is it an either/or situation. People can appreciate every genre of music including rap and classical at the same time.

Most people don't listen to music. They have it on in the background; that's why pop music is popular—it's good for not listening to.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #211 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


That's not what the comment was referring to, someone can have a playlist with multiple genres of music and appreciate all of them. There's no class system where you either only like rap and are a criminal or you only like classical music and are some highly educated musical aficionado.

so where did I say I only like classical music, etc.? or that's the only two classes? 

You really need to go to school and get your reading comprehension up to speed. 

 

How old are you and what educational level do you currently have? I'm curious, at least it will give me a better understanding of what I'm dealing with.

post #212 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Blah blah blah racism blah blah blah.

I never said I was the arbiter of good taste in music. I've played the violin when I was younger. Not that that proves anything.

Beatles promoted getting high on drugs but they're white so it's okay. As seen above, Dylan and Cash also had some "bad lyrics" but you make excuses.

Oh sell your stock and quite whining.

Yeah, I know drugs was popular in the music culture, but you didn't see them degrade women, talk about killing cops, and the other vulgar stuff that the Dr. Dre's of the world promote.  Plus,, these guys were produced by someone with a classical training, they enjoyed bringing Indian culture into music that was a combination of blues, some folk, etc. so they used the drugs initially to see how it would assist in their creativity.  yeah, i get it.  But some of them I think got off of drugs when they started meditating with the Maharishi or something along those lines.  They kind of did grow out of that drug phase. But these guys went from bar band to instant stardom and $hit caught up to them.  But they weren't promoting illiteracy, hatred towards others, etc. etc.  So, you are kind of taking one thing out of context like the Beatles are equal to the Rapper culture.  One tiny thing does not make them equal in all aspects.  The Beatles were well spoken having not gone through the higher education system.  There wasn't all positive with the Beatles with their lifestyle, but most of their music is deemed as "classic" rock from that generation and has and will always be considered rock solid song writing, and plenty of high quality jazz artists and other genres have made very nice remakes of their songs, because of one undeniable fact, MELODY LINES. Something that lacks in Rap music culture.   It's the melody lines and the lyrics which makes a song more memorable and longer lasting and more enjoyable.

post #213 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Most people don't listen to music. They have it on in the background; that's why pop music is popular—it's good for not listening to.

You mean elevator music?   well, that's probably a sign of a shallow person with not much depth or they are too busy studying and they simply keep themselves in books.  But I would say the majority that don't really listen to music are probably pretty shallow people.

post #214 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Most people don't listen to music. They have it on in the background; that's why pop music is popular—it's good for not listening to.
You mean elevator music?   well, that's probably a sign of a shallow person with not much depth or they are too busy studying and they simply keep themselves in books.  But I would say the majority that don't really listen to music are probably pretty shallow people.

Maybe. But life is complicated, and listening involves concentration. I don't think people have much time for concentrating these days; they're too busy doing other things. Unfortunately, it is easy to put music on and do something else, which devalues the music. It can enhance too; sometimes, I am reading a book, and the music adds to the experience. But generally, there is far too much music everywhere, just as there is far too much of everything today. Too many people, too many articles on AI, too much sport, too much information. The less we have, the more we appreciate what we have. Greed begets greed.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #215 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Most people don't listen to music. They have it on in the background; that's why pop music is popular—it's good for not listening to.

You mean elevator music?   well, that's probably a sign of a 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Maybe. But life is complicated, and listening involves concentration. I don't think people have much time for concentrating these days; they're too busy doing other things. Unfortunately, it is easy to put music on and do something else, which devalues the music. It can enhance too; sometimes, I am reading a book, and the music adds to the experience. But generally, there is far too much music everywhere, just as there is far too much of everything today. Too many people, too many articles on AI, too much sport, too much information. The less we have, the more we appreciate what we have. Greed begets greed.

I stay away from watching sports because it's just all about the money.  The majority of the pop industry is all about money and fame which is why i kind of stay away from it.  So, I stick to the lessor known musicians that i enjoy and gravitate towards those that really have something to offer because they are far more honest in themselves and what they are all about. The more commercial the artist, I kind of stay away from them, they are more in it for the money.

 

I just am really annoyed by Cook and Cue and their lying trying to make us think that they and Iovine and Dre are more concerned about the music and that's DEEPLY the part of why they did this deal is about the most amount of BS  I can take.  Dre and Iovine, etc. are all about the money and that fame of it.  Under normal circumstances, I don't think Dre would have been hired by Apple if Steve was still around.  Iovine, maybe, but I think sometimes, Apple execs think they are really more knowledgeable than they are.  When they start telling me how great their culture is and how intelligent they are, and how they work together as a team and all of this fluffy BS, that's when my BS meter goes off and then I stop thinking they are great and intelligent.  At least when it comes to the iTunes/Beats situation.  I think Cue Ball was over his head and he got Beats involved because of the popularity of the headphones and Dre and Iovine are salivating trying to get into Apple to help validate themselves as leaders when all they are to me are scam artists.   Trust me, this whole thing is not going over well with Apple employees and I'm seeing right through the damage control these guys are doing and I know that the questions they are asking these guys aren't very confrontational and they scripted this crap ahead of time because they spent more time talking about Jobs than they did the Dre Video.   It's just F'd up and it's shameful that it's happening to Apple.  I'm waiting for the WWDC event and see what the take is on this.  Maybe Apple preselected developers based on their playlists of having rap music as a big portion.  Who knows, Apple was the one that pre-selected the attendees of this year's WWDC and I'm sure they know their Developer's buying habits on iTunes.  :-)  We'll just have to see if this hypothesis holds any water, i hope it doesn't.

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