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MacWorld in New York - 2002 is Apple's year

post #1 of 620
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Sorry for the long haitus, but it has been quite busy here. We are in final testing phases of our Apple hardware and there has been an excitement in the air. I believe many of you will be pleasantly surprised with the hardware to be released, and after seeing some other sites, I'd like to remind you all that behind most rumors is a kernel of truth, despite the fact that some sites like to embelish on the tidbit they get. Without further ado...

The PowerMac G4 as we know it will be retired. Well the architecture will at least. We will see changes to the system bus, processor and general layout. Motorola has been hard at work with the 130nm G4. It will scale nicely (at least 1.5GHz by the summer) and have improved bus features. Memory access will be stellar. And you'll see why. not only will DDR SDRAM make a debut but it will not connect to the processor iin a conventional manner. More to come. Cache will also be increased on the processor level. Twice what is seen now. You will see a collaboration with another hardware company, but this will not surprise some of you in the know.

More to come.
post #2 of 620
It's too late.

AMD has Hammer coming out on 400Mhz Point to Point Busses. 8way machines are planned with Quads being demo'd.

Intel has Prescott coming which supports a 666mhz Bus. In addition to the faster speeds that Northwood is going to bring.

Apple is not even close enough to choke on Intel/AMD's fumes.
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post #3 of 620
I can not wait!

-ray

First post
post #4 of 620
Hmmmm....Dorsal's post is just vague enough to be true.

post #5 of 620
BTW Welcome back!
post #6 of 620
The way I read this is that Moto will continue with the G4, but these will become consumer level only processors, finally breaking out of a very old mother board. IBM moves into the lead for the towers and servers....
post #7 of 620
who cares about amd and intel hardware, they're still stuck with the largest bottleneck ever, windows.
post #8 of 620
Hmm. Who is this Dorsal guy?

How legit is he? On a scale from one to ten. One being Kormac and ten being WorkerBee.
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post #9 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by MicrosoftOsXp:
<strong>who cares about amd and intel hardware, they're still stuck with the largest bottleneck ever, windows.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Sorry ....had a brief rash of cynicism
Go Apple!
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post #10 of 620
Well, if what you say is true, Dorsal M, then I suspect I'll be making an Apple purchase this summer.

I do love my tried-and-true B&W G3 350MHz, but her video card is aging, and her processor is slow to heed during iMovie edits.

With a cutting-edge G4 processor and a Superdrive, I'll reach new heights-of DVD movie-making ease and productivity.

And with a top-line ATI/nVidia card (and the advent of DirectX to OpenGL conversion software) I'll be playing the best, simultaneously-released, Mac/PC games.

See you in the checkout line,
-theMagius
post #11 of 620
Dorsal!!! Moremoremoremore
eBay be prepared to my Dual 800 !

[ 06-14-2002: Message edited by: jeromba ]</p>
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post #12 of 620
The thing I want to know is this:
Has there been any substantial changes to the architecture of the G4 itself apart from it being moved to the 130nm process?

However memory bandwidth is the biggest hinderance to Apple's machines, its good to hear that they're supposedly tackling this problem head on with an innovative idea...

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see, how long is it till Macworld New York commences?
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post #13 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by MicrosoftOsXp:
<strong>who cares about amd and intel hardware, they're still stuck with the largest bottleneck ever, windows.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Dam straight! Anyone who says XP changes the fact is a liar. Your PC may not die as fast, but if you give it enough time (or install enough apps) it's sure to croak. You know I had to reinstall XP for two of my friends this week? Man were those machines ****ed up. Glad I use a Mac and only fix other people's **** boxes.

[ 06-14-2002: Message edited by: Keeksy ]</p>
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post #14 of 620
What doesn't make sense to me is if Apple had this new motherboard then why wasn't it used for the Xserve?
post #15 of 620
Because server must run on a good old and trusty architecture...
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post #16 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Producer:
<strong>What doesn't make sense to me is if Apple had this new motherboard then why wasn't it used for the Xserve?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Has Apple started shipping the XServe yet? If not, then they could announce at NY, "IBM/Moto finished the new processor early, so we are going to automatically upgrade all pre-orders for the X-Serve to the new processor/mobo". If they have started shipping them, then it follows Apples history with the server market releases lagging behind desktops.
post #17 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Producer:
<strong>What doesn't make sense to me is if Apple had this new motherboard then why wasn't it used for the Xserve?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is guess for the same reason most of the Intel-based servers are still PIII's with special ServerSet-chipsets instead of P4-Xeons. As already the pricepoint shows, they are entry-level servers - nothing more, and nothing less.

There is no need for a single high-speed processor in that market segment.

If you need processing power you can easily stack the 1U-cases and cluster multiple servers (any news on this front?).
post #18 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>Hmm. Who is this Dorsal guy?

How legit is he? On a scale from one to ten. One being Kormac and ten being WorkerBee.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Kormac is not a one. Maybe a negative one. Kormac is total BS and has never been more than that.

Dorsal is a guy that used to be on these boards, but whose name was poached. (yes I know you know who he is and who this is but humor me) Dorsal M, the admins insist is authentic, but how do we really know?

Though JYD will disagree, Dorsal did pretty much describe the Xserve architecture and the QS towers. I think he knew something, was exposed to Apple product through a few degrees of seperation. Give'em a 6.5
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post #19 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>Hmm. Who is this Dorsal guy?

How legit is he? On a scale from one to ten. One being Kormac and ten being WorkerBee.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh no. One being Kim Kap Sol, my friend. Kormac76/7 is light years ahead of KimKapSol, our plastics-spy-in-hiding.
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post #20 of 620
Inventory build up of PowerPC.

We have just seen PowerLogix announce G4 upgrades of up to 1 GHz. Why would Moto suddenly have some extra inventory to sell to PowerLogix when Apple is using G4 in *four* totally separate product lines; G4 tower, Xserve, eMac/iMac, PowerBook G4.

There is obviously good production and Apple stopped buying them for the tower some time ago in prep for the new G4/DDR.

Its all coming together, Xserve was the first warning shot with its DDR 2 Gig RAM and 66/64 PCI slots.

The real deal is the "new" G4 box coming soon. Hey it may even have a new case design in the spirit of the Xserve.

Welcome the news, vague or not, that Apple is ready to push their hardware forward as much as Mac OS X pushed the software forward.
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post #21 of 620
The XServe has some interesting design features that people don't think about. Additional L2/L3 cache makes a big difference, and the specialized HyperTransport chipset will help as well. If they _just_ move the architecture from the XServe to the PowerMac it will make a significant difference.
post #22 of 620
If it's not a G5 or not a G4 at a minimum of 1.5GHz and doesn't include a minimum 166/333MHz DDR bus, then Apple is doomed to have another very disappointing MacWorld.
post #23 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Nostradamus:
<strong>If it's not a G5 or not a G4 at a minimum of 1.5GHz and doesn't include a minimum 166/333MHz DDR bus, then Apple is doomed to have another very disappointing MacWorld.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't you mean DOOMED, period? Forever and ever? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
post #24 of 620
Dorsal let me be the first to say I'm sure glad I was wrong... Due to your last posting date plus no return postings plus an Apple buyout of a company plus an active imagination... Well anyway I'm just glad you're still around and still posting.

Anyway, if I'm reading you right we're gonna see something more like a G4.5 at MacWorld NY eh? Better CPU &lt;--&gt; memory access will be 'stellar'?? As compared to current Mac's or as compared to the rest of the (highish end) desktop industry as a whole?

Oh and have you seen this pic? Does it resemble anything you may or may not have seen??



Anyway... your first post while interesting left out much detail... I'm anxious to hear more.

Dave
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post #25 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by JRC:
<strong>

Oh no. One being Kim Kap Sol, my friend. Kormac76/7 is light years ahead of KimKapSol, our plastics-spy-in-hiding.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree. KimKapSol's steaming pile was short lived, Kormac's went on for months, it got smeared into every crack of AI's UBB and all the noses of those semi-retarded members who lined up for the priveledge of licking the choclate icing from between his cheeks. Truly disgusting, nothing in the history of AI was ever worse than Kormac and his fanatical cult weenies.
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post #26 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Dorsal M:
<strong>You will see a collaboration with another hardware company, but this will not surprise some of you in the know.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well my money is on Nvidia...

Dave
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post #27 of 620
Hey guys don't wet your pants yet... We all know how Apple is good in the art of disappointing us.... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
The last two Macworld were disastrous.
Remember last year at the same time lots of us were expecting dual GHz machines with DDR and we all know what we finally got.
Last year I almost cried when I saw the specifications of the Powermacs.
Don't get me wrong I'd love to see REAL Pro machines with all the goodies and finally a brand new case.
But I believe that we will get a 1.2 GHz at the top of the line with the technical specifications of the X-Serve (DDR, ATA 100)
The only thing that gives me hope is the announcement of Powerlogics that will make available for purchase cards up to 1 GHz.
I do not have anything against Dorsal but he predicted so many stuff that never showed up, that I'm very skeptical.
post #28 of 620
DORSAL........man, glad to see you back here.

everybody shut his worthless trap, and let the master spill the exciting beans!!!

so for geezes sake let´s hear some details Dorsal.... we´re starving here!!

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post #29 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Toofeu:
<strong>Last year I almost cried when I saw the specifications of the Powermacs.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's just truly f`ucking lame. Lame. Lame. LAME.

What some of you knuckleheads fail to understand is if the PowerMac details make you "almost cry" and you swear off Apple forever, there are still people out there that have invested heavily in Mac software that will still purchase these machines.
Apple will make its money whether it's off you or not.
Grow up.
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post #30 of 620
Well I'd say that MWNY will be a make or break event for Dorsal's reputation.

I really hope he's right and we see a G4 with a modified FSB scheme or an on-chip memory controller. Only time will tell for sure, but Moki says they are "improving memory bandwidth" as well, so perhaps things aren't completely in the crapper?
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post #31 of 620
Welcome Back Dorsal

Thanks for the info Mister.

As you indicated we've heard a lot of this before. So the new chipset architecture must be more impressive than is immediately obvious to me, or am I not to be one of the pleasantly suprised?

what you said Programmer
post #32 of 620
So Moki, what do you think of Dorsal? Is he full of garbage? You don't have to spill the beans but a hint would be really nice of you.
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post #33 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Toofeu:
<strong>
The last two Macworld were disastrous.
Remember last year at the same time lots of us were expecting dual GHz machines with DDR and we all know what we finally got.
Last year I almost cried when I saw the specifications of the Powermacs. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, I liked last years MWNY and went out after that and bought a QS867 with a 22 inch cinema display. It is awesome.
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post #34 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Shanny:
<strong>

there are still people out there that have invested heavily in Mac software that will still purchase these machines.
Apple will make its money whether it's off you or not.
Grow up. </strong><hr></blockquote>

... man's got a point, given the half life of Apple's market share, who cares if we're down to 5 or 6 users in a few years ... they could take turns pretending to be iCEO!

Developer meetings? No problem, hold 'em anywhere! Who's gonna show up?

Enough already with all this "who killed who?" er uh, with all this whining about Apple's hardware falling behind 'n stuff, think of the benefits!

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post #35 of 620
Dorsal M, my sentiments go along the same as what DaveGee said ... I'm glad you're back (even though, in my case, I'm only guessing at things).

Regarding your vague opening post, does this mean things are "on-going" from your earlier thread "The G5 and what it means for future Macs", opened 3-19-02, only using an updated G4 (74XX) and not a (75XX)? Is the motherboard config using the same or similar daughter card memory association/ RIO implementation/ PCI-X ? And lastly, Do you think, based on what you've been testing, that there will be different main CPU hardware companies associated with Apple's Consumer and "Pro"desktop lines?

Glad you're still with us Dorsal. May the Force be with you!
post #36 of 620
Hey Dorsal, what ever happened to your predictions for MWNY last year? Not to rag on ya or anything but...

Mmm Dual 1.5s ...
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post #37 of 620
Going back over some older news items (rumors etc) I found this:
[quote]
Need for Speed

According to the PCI-SIG, a number of upcoming technological developments will require a faster internal input/output scheme.

"Technologies such as CPU speeds that will exceed 10 GHz, faster memory speeds, higher-speed graphics, 1-Gigabit and 10-Gigabit LAN, 1394b, InfiniBand fabrics and others will drive the need for much greater internal system bandwidth," according to 3GIO product literature.

Apple already includes a direct bus to the system controller on current Power Mac G4 systems, providing sustained throughput of 215 Mbps. The company claims that bottlenecks in most other PC architectures cause a slowdown to 133 Mbps when using certain applications.

Current specifications for 3GIO show data running directly from an expansion device (such as a graphics card) through a memory bridge and into the CPU, avoiding any potential I/O bridge bottlenecks.

The PCI-SIG claims 3GIO sports an initial frequency of 2.5 Gb/s/direction, which is expected to increase as silicon technology advances to 10Gb/s/direction (the theoretical maximum for signals sent via copper wire). 3GIO purportedly also will feature 100 MB per second per pin data transfer, compared with AGP 4X's 10 MB per second per pin throughput.

HyperTransport Complement

AMD is developing its own high-speed interconnection standard, independent of 3GIO, dubbed "HyperTransport." This I/O standard, which AMD officials said is not intended to compete with either 3GIO or PCI-X, will deliver 12.8 GB/sec.

Apple is a member of the HyperTransport Consortium, lending credence to speculation that the company will choose to integrate some form of AMD's technology into its high-end systems. NVidia, which supplies virtually all graphics cards for current desktop Macs, is also a member of the HyperTransport Consortium.

Major announcements regarding HyperTransport and possibly 3GIO are expected to take place at the Networld+Interop conference, to be held in Las Vegas, Nevada, from May 7th to 9th.
<hr></blockquote>

Does this fit in with anything we might be looking at?

Dave
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post #38 of 620
So, can we expect simple G4's running at around the same speed but with major improvements to the bus? Will this make the G4 faster? I can hear all the people complaing if the all we get is a 1.2 Ghz G4...with hypertransport.
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post #39 of 620
For everyone who wasn't around when Dorsal first posted about the powermacs: we have to remember that Dorsal does not know what will be released at the next MW. He only knows what is contained in the test machines that his company receives. He reports on the tech that they use and just because the next PM doesn't contain some of this tech, doesn't mean that it didn't exist. Test machines do not always make it into production (hence why they are test machines). So use Dorsal's info to get an idea of what technology apple is testing, not what they will release.
post #40 of 620
oh the vaugeness of it all!

<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

so torturous
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