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MacWorld in New York - 2002 is Apple's year - Page 7

post #241 of 620
Maybe the "this is Apple's year" is more then a marketing scheme to gain market share. Maybe Apple has plans of world domination tucked away in their belts. Wow, that would be neat. Do I get a free tattoo also?
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post #242 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by onlooker:
<strong>

That's a seriously disturbing thought. What business does Apple have in making a camera? There are many great companies (I doubt I need to name any) that have been making very high quality camera's for 50 years + that I would feel more comfortable buying a camera from.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What business does Apple have in making an MP3 player? There are many great companies (I doubt I need to name any) that have been making very high quality MP3 players for many years.

Yes, Apple is inexperienced in making cameras. However, this does not matter to much. Look at Sony. They have been making cameras only very recently (they never made film cameras) and yet they are major competitors in the camera market today. One of the main advantages of the iPod was the charging and fast data transfer via FireWire. This alone would be likely to insure an Apple camera success, as there are no consumer-level FireWire cameras.

Or, perhaps Apple is collaborating with another camera manufacturer. Isn't that what happened with one of the QuickTake cameras?
post #243 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by moki:
<strong>I blame Slovenia for the lack of a G5 at the MacWorld/NY expo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

MUAHAHA! IF you only knew! :cool:

In other news: Slovenian officials today officially announced that buying the stock of G5s of the next two years to feed to their cattle was a bad idea. Right now other means of putting the G5s to use are being evaluated and it looks like the G5s will be recycled for other agricultural use.
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post #244 of 620
Many folks have pointed out that Apple's recent acquisition of companies in high end video software as pointing to new Apple hardware soon. Well, I checked out <a href="http://www.macrumors.com" target="_blank">macrumors</a>today and noticed they shot a lot of media producers at the same time they shot the switchers campaign but haven't started airing the spots yet. I wonder if they could be for after Apple makes its "big move" into media which would fix it as sooner rather than later.
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post #245 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by BobtheTomato:
<strong>Many folks have pointed out that Apple's recent acquisition of companies in high end video software as pointing to new Apple hardware soon. Well, I checked out <a href="http://www.macrumors.com" target="_blank">macrumors</a>today and noticed they shot a lot of media producers at the same time they shot the switchers campaign but haven't started airing the spots yet. I wonder if they could be for after Apple makes its "big move" into media which would fix it as sooner rather than later.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, I think they are simply celebs, not any kind of job specific (mm, even tho the first ads were..) They could just be saying, hey look who uses a Mac, he's a famous person....
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post #246 of 620
how about this for a rumour?

Dorsal M = Steve Jobs!!!!

WOOOW!! that would explain a lot hey?
just a theory to pass the time..
some troll-food for the masses.

peace out,
G
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post #247 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by moki:
<strong>I blame Slovenia for the lack of a G5 at the MacWorld/NY expo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am tired of people always laying balme for poor CPU production on doorstep of poor huddled masses in Slovenia. Blame France- they are easy target having lost first round of world cup.
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post #248 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by warpd:
<strong>

Absolutely positive! Look into international aid statistics, both through non profits, the UN, and every other international aid channel, the US has eclipsed every other country for the past 20 years. Both in total $$, and as a percent of GDP. We are, and have been the most generous nation on the planet.
</strong><hr></blockquote>


You are wrong on both counts. In 1993 Japan became number one in terms of total aid given in $. Yes, it was the US that they surpassed I'm not talking about one large, one time contribution to an obscure aid program, these are general statistics, not specific to any one particular organization.

Also, the Scandanavian countries (Denmark, Norway and Sweden) are the most generous in tems of GDP. They give a higher percentage than any other country.

FYI, about half of the entire US aid budget goes to two countries: Egypt and Israel.

But what does all this have to do with MYNY? Maybe Apple will get into the business of foreign aid and donate some of their new PowerMacs?
post #249 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Yevgeny:
<strong>Blame France- they are easy target having lost first round of world cup.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hehe! Slovenia also lost the first round, but had a better statistic than France!
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post #250 of 620
Please keep politics out of Future Hardware.
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post #251 of 620
[quote]Please keep politics out of Future Hardware <hr></blockquote>

You should be telling motorola that!! LOL <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #252 of 620
What about HT to the video card, was that there Dorsal??
post #253 of 620
Uh oh, this thread's going way downhill.

BTW Egypt is one messed up country, that's a definite waste of our tax dollars there.
post #254 of 620
Regarding 2002 - "Apple's Year." What if indeed there are stop-gap motherboards, etc. and in fact Apple waits till 2003. My question is: by 2003 will this be too late for Apple. Is there a too late for Apple now that they are perceived as being slower, in terms of mhz rating and performance. If Apple just adds a DDR X-serve motherboard with dual 1.2ghz processors at the top-end, what honestly to you think would happen to Apple?

The thing is, I've really been enjoying over the past few weeks reading what everyone has to say. But when one promising document or news bit comes in, another comes in to counter it almost. So in fact my 'expectations' waffle back and forth, and now I have this cancelled out feeling of a neutral Macworld happening now.

I think we all on this board are concerned at this point about Apple. At least a little, some very concerned and unhappy. I am not unhappy, but I'm concerned. I DO feel that this MacWorld is indeed one of the most important, because IF, and I mean IF, they just do the same updates, they may finally get to a point where they might start sliding to obscurity. But who knows, this view is probably over-zealously reactionary. Just wondering, because so far the majority of posts are hopes about what might be released. But if the hopes are held back again, will the "again" bring this amount of attention in January, or will some be looking elsewhere by that time?
post #255 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by ouroboros:
<strong>I DO feel that this MacWorld is indeed one of the most important, because IF, and I mean IF, they just do the same updates, they may finally get to a point where they might start sliding to obscurity.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If the reports of Steve's we-flopped-out-there-big-time sayer are true I think that Steve wants to make a B-A-N-G this time and surely wont make a keynote of "er, but a 133 mhz bump is a lot, really!"

I have my hopes high. But I am young.
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post #256 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by ouroboros:
<strong>But if the hopes are held back again, will the "again" bring this amount of attention in January, or will some be looking elsewhere by that time?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The truth? Were it not for the OS I'd have switched looong ago... But I simply cannot force Windows down my throat. I keep waiting for a great new OS like, for example, the BeOS was (and still is, though no longer available)--but I know I will never see anything like that again... I basically switched to portables in these past three years because they are the only Apple products that actually justify the cost...

But then again--who knows, maybe we're really about to be blown away by the next insanely great thing!

ZoSo
post #257 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by ouroboros:
<strong>Regarding 2002 - "Apple's Year." What if indeed there are stop-gap motherboards, etc. and in fact Apple waits till 2003. My question is: by 2003 will this be too late for Apple. Is there a too late for Apple now that they are perceived as being slower, in terms of mhz rating and performance. If Apple just adds a DDR X-serve motherboard with dual 1.2ghz processors at the top-end, what honestly to you think would happen to Apple?
</strong><hr></blockquote>


In answer to your question. Nothing much. It wouldn't be hurt, it wouldn't help.

Now, my question...

What is a "stopgap motherboard"??

I've seen that phrase used before, and given the evolutionary chain of motherboards and processors, either ALL of them are stopgap or none are, in my opinion.

So...what is a "stopgap motherboard"?

Gabriel
post #258 of 620
And while were at it, maybe would could stop with ding-dong phrases like 'double pumped FSB' & 'Xserve DDR hack'

Who exactly has a Xserve and the first-hand knowledge to call it a 'hack'?

post #259 of 620
<strong> [quote]So...what is a "stopgap motherboard"?<hr></blockquote></strong>

They probably did not intend to use XServe motherboards for Powermacs, but are now forced to do so.

And you know, to the unwashed masses (those that don't read these boards ) this would still look impressive. "It's like having a server on your desk!!" But we know better.

I personally was hoping for another "Pro. Go. Whoa." (G5, a new, portable iDevice, and then something that was iStunning). And we may still get something.

Life is about settling with disappointment.

Screed ...has dog named Prozac.

[ 06-19-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>
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post #260 of 620
For me, I've invested a LOT of money into software, thousands and thousands on upgrades, etc. So simply leaving the Mac isn't an option for me. I went from a desktop to a portable, and doing production work on a G4 laptop with an external Cinema display is a much better situation than what I was using: a Blue and White G3 with 2 17" monitors.

And sorry about the use of "stop-gap motherboards" and DDR hacks and all that talk. What all that meant was that if Apple is being held up by some processor change of fix, or whatever, using a revised motherboard of what we are currently using as opposed to a brand new motherboard isn't what was probably in Apple's cards or intentions. And this means that the rate of incremental technology increases that Apple is trying to offer us as opposed to what they are giving us isn't so hot.

I think all these comparisons to PC equivalents for $ amounts and all that is just a frustration of knowing that of course faster this and that is possible, So why aren't we getting it!? Why such a slow slide into faster and better technology? I've wondered this, and a lot of people here help me get the answers. And so the rumors of something over the hills, just around the corner is so tempting, and why I come hear and read also. It would be so nice to see a movement forward, and not a step forward.

For me I see Apple as something I work with every day, I'm always staring at a damn screen. Its nice to actually like what you have to work with, to like the reasons why it is here. And yes, I think it is inspiring to see what someone like Steve Jobs did, from a garage to now. I also like the fact that I'm rooting for an underdog of sorts. Microsoft is the big bad brother that twists and steals, etc. Its funny but the Microsoft/Apple thing is like a soap opera - the fact that they made a TV movie about the whole thing supports why there are boards like AppleInsider...

So I don't see myself switching, but one can't help but think that this year is the most important year for Apple. It is where they either fall forever "behind" (whatever that means) and endlessly play catch-up. Or it is the year 2002, and like 1998 (and 1984) they will do something amazing and pull the rabbit out of the hat and amaze us like they've actually done before. And as of June 19th, I can see both happening....
post #261 of 620
I'm in agreement with a lot of the eloquent later posts in this thread. Its not about power we might need or don't need etc (640k anyone?) but about a continued large scale presence for apple to give us the opportunity to enjoy using our computers and be amazed at new innovative technologies. Where I live there is only 1 place in a 30 mile radius that sells macs - PC World and they're hideously expensive. Most of the old applecentres I knew have closed down - [b] with no -one coming in to replace them [/b}

C'mon Steve - give us a G5 so fast we can't use it and have to buy add ons to slow it down :cool:
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post #262 of 620
Realistically, I'm not looking for a G5, as whatever new processor that is coming out for Apple seems to be a bit off (or is it?!) - What I want is for Apple to just BE IN THERE, so that we don't have to think of ways of justifying Apple, they can do it themselves. The holy grail I think would be for people to somehow just get it right away when reading about what the Mac has to offer, or the ten seconds they think about it in the store before they go and instead buy a Dell originally, they get a Mac. I just want Apple to continue with what they SHOULD be doing, making cool stuff, that runs cool, does cool things, and makes others jealous, because it is really happening on the Mac. I think Apple has done a lot of good this year, their software is excellent, and will continue to get better. Now lets see some hardware innovation that makes the race more fair.

I don't see this 'race' by the way as something like, "Damn they're at 2.6ghz, we gotta do 3," it is more complicated than that. Apple is one who can change perceptions, and we know that ghz isn't all there is. But whatever it is, Apple needs more of it, and at a faster pace. See this opinion as one who has invested a lot of time and money into Apple, an encouragement, not a pure complaint.
post #263 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by xype:
<strong>

Oopsie! Now guys, do what the Administrator is telling you to!

See, that's why it's great from a land so small noone gives a **** about! Slovenia is unlikely to be blamed for any mess, whereas the US is a great target to blame for everything...</strong><hr></blockquote>

ooh, I wanted to go to Slovenia last year so badly. There was a conference in Ljubljana and if work had paid for it I would've used it for a jumping off point to go to Italy and Croatia, too. Alas, didn't happen. But i hear it's really beuatiful!
post #264 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by GabrielX:
<strong>What is a "stopgap motherboard"??</strong><hr></blockquote>

A stop-gap motherboard is just one where there hasn't been a full implementation of features that would have otherwise been included.

Basically it means Apple has left things off because the time to market of getting a working board out the door was too long. Apple has been very focused on time to market in their recent developments too.

What they do in this case where the time to market is too large if they are really desperate, and Apple would be with respect to DDR right now, is release a "stop-gap" measure. It's just something that is only there for a very short time (usually only until next revision) until they perfect what they were working on.

I can guarantee this revision we will see DDR RAM being used. It looks terrible for Apple to still be using 133MHz SDRAM in their pro systems no matter how good their bus efficiency is and they know that. People do notice when the PC world is starting to talk DDR 400 boards and Apple is still selling 100MHz & 133 MHz SDRAM boards.

It really is now a question of do they have the "complete" board they want to use ready or not? They have had problems with their boards so we just have to wait and see.

Edit: Slovenia is a lovely country =) I have two friends that live over there. Then again I enjoy visiting just about every country with the exception of the US and Australia.

[ 06-20-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
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post #265 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>Hey idiots.

Shut up about the USA.

this is Future hardware, remember... you can shoot your mouths off in AppleOutsider.


<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Not conduct very becoming of a board admin, I must say.
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post #266 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Shanny:
<strong>

Not conduct very becoming of a board admin, I must say.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It wont matter much when Apple is a 5$ stock. Its make or break for Apple. Revenues are dropping, which means market share is dropping further, which means death. I hope SJ can pull a rabbit or two this MW. If not, the market would REALLY understand why top execs sold so many shares. Apple is in trouble. I really hope they can pull through. They need to drop MOT. Maybe go with Nvidia. Maybe IBM. But lose MOT.

mika.
post #267 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>It wont matter much when Apple is a 5$ stock. Its make or break for Apple. Revenues are dropping, which means market share is dropping further, which means death. I hope SJ can pull a rabbit or two this MW. If not, the market would REALLY understand why top execs sold so many shares. Apple is in trouble. I really hope they can pull through. They need to drop MOT. Maybe go with Nvidia. Maybe IBM. But lose MOT.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree... first of all about your deductoin that market share is dropping based on the drop in revenue -- PC companies are declaring losses or shortfalls of the same (or worse) magnitude.

I also disagree that they need to drop Motorola. What they need to do is ensure a future supply of powerful processors for the PowerMac line, and a solid supply of consumer and portable processors. If this means dropping Motorola, then so be it. I suspect the situation is much more complex, however. Ideally both Motorola and IBM would deliver chips that Apple can choose from so that Apple doesn't get stuck back in another single-source situation. From all that has been tossed around lately I could easily see that next year at this time Apple might be swimming in processor options: IBM SIMD equipped low-power G3s for the iBook, Motorola G4s for the consumer line (possibly using RapidIO & on-chip memory controller), and IBM POWER-derived chips for the PowerMac line.
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post #268 of 620
Programmer:

quote
PC companies are declaring losses or shortfalls of the same (or worse) magnitude.

hmm, and going out of business. Who is Apple going to consolidate with?

I think if Apple execs had any astuteness, they would use Nvidias ambitions and need to conquer fresh markets, as a vehicle to depose the Mico$oft/Intel hegemony. Its an opportune time for Apple to try this.


mika.
post #269 of 620
Whatever happened to that silicon germanium process IBM was making such a buzz about a while back? Using a chip with few differences in the process than say a G4...what's to say we wont see the fruits of this coming anytime soon? Jobs has been awfully optimistic lately and IBM stated that the chips were something they could do "now," as in months ago...

[EDIT: UBB decided to take a chunk out of my post...]

[ 06-19-2002: Message edited by: Spart ]</p>
post #270 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Ptrash:
<strong>ooh, I wanted to go to Slovenia last year so badly. There was a conference in Ljubljana and if work had paid for it I would've used it for a jumping off point to go to Italy and Croatia, too. Alas, didn't happen. But i hear it's really beuatiful!</strong><hr></blockquote>

[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>Edit: Slovenia is a lovely country =) I have two friends that live over there. Then again I enjoy visiting just about every country with the exception of the US and Australia.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wow! Now you guys impress me - I didn't think anyone actually even knows where it is! Hehe, yeah it's a nice country and you can reach Venezia or the nice Croatian coast in only a few hours.

Oh, and since I am originally from Ljubljana - what kind of a conference would that be?
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post #271 of 620
I think that for the general public Apple doesn't need to promote processor speed or worry about speed comparisons with Intel. Most people don't buy 2.0GHz pentiums. Lots of sub 1GHz p3s are still sold.

Apple should focus on selling functionality (some of this comes across in the current ads). I don't want to buy a mult-gigaHertz processor. I want to edit movies painlessly, use email, etc. The processor speed needs to be respetable but doesn't need to be leading edge.

As more time goes by processor speed will become less relevant. When iDVD encodes a movie at 10x speeds, when iTunes compresses at 20x or 30x speeds then it won't make much difference whether you have one 10GHz processor or quad 2.5GHz processors.
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post #272 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>

IBM SIMD equipped low-power G3s for the iBook, Motorola G4s for the consumer line (possibly using RapidIO & on-chip memory controller), and IBM POWER-derived chips for the PowerMac line.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you think that a simplified power 4 with a Simd unit will be a possible choice.
I expect in that case that it will be still a dual core chip, i think the benchmarks in a case of a single core will not be better than the 7455.
post #273 of 620
[quote]Dorsal<strong>
Memory access will be stellar. And you'll see why. not only will DDR SDRAM make a debut but it will not connect to the processor iin a conventional manner. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm Programmer:
you talked about this already earlier.
What is an unconventional way to access the memory?
I guess Dorsal is talking about the 1GB/sec limit (now in Xserve). that it will disappear?

I expect we'll see something different then the Xserve mobo.
post #274 of 620
I find it very hard to believe that SJ and all the rest have just been sitting on their hands all this time. They must have had contingency plans when the G4 stagnated. They must realize that they can't let themselves get too far behind. They've got $4bn sitting in the bank, I doubt they'll just leave it their earning interest while the company gradually loses marketshare.

Of course, this kind of thing has happpened before to Apple, whos to say it's not happening again. I just hope that SJ has learned something from the past.
post #275 of 620
[quote] Lots of sub 1GHz p3s are still sold <hr></blockquote>


Sure, on Ebay!! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #276 of 620
[quote]It wont matter much when Apple is a 5$ stock. Its make or break for Apple. <hr></blockquote>

I wouldn't worry too much. The stock can't go any lower, it would mean their market cap was lower that the value of their cash and investments! Not really possible. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
post #277 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by wdegroot:
<strong>I find it very hard to believe that SJ and all the rest have just been sitting on their hands all this time. They must have had contingency plans when the G4 stagnated. They must realize that they can't let themselves get too far behind. They've got $4bn sitting in the bank, I doubt they'll just leave it their earning interest while the company gradually loses marketshare.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree. It's been said that NY01 and SF02 were supposed to show much better hardware, but due to technical hurdles Jobs opted for more conservative machines. I don't know if those new PowerMacs Gx will see the light of day at NY02, but I'm pretty sure that if something gets screwed up at the last minute we're going to see some heads rolling at Apple: it's a trend that can't possibly go on forever...

ZoSo
post #278 of 620
[quote]Originally Trolled by PC^KILLA:

It wont matter much when Apple is a 5$ stock. Its make or break for Apple. Revenues are dropping, which means market share is dropping further, which means death. <hr></blockquote>





The stocks seem to be basically parallelling one another. It would follow that what problems there are are not Apple's alone. They are industry wide.

BACK ON TOPIC

As for MWNY, I think we will only see g4's but on new boards. However, I do not think we will see a repeat of the "Yikes" episode. It is not as if Apple started working on the new G4 Boards only AFTER they completed the XServe. Obviously these things are happening concurrently, and with a couple of months to iron out kinks, I think we will see a more polished situation than that with XServe.

Hope Springs Eternal,

Mandricard
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[ 06-20-2002: Message edited by: Mandricard ]</p>
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post #279 of 620
The problem for Apple is "is it worth puttimg a new line of equipment out at this time given the economic conditons that exist". There isn't a lot of purchasing power available at this time and it would probably be smarter (in an economic sense) to wait until Jan-03.

It's a management call by Apple at this time, i'd vote to wait for the good stuff to be released in Jan-03.
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post #280 of 620
[quote]Originally posted by powerdoc:
<strong>Do you think that a simplified power 4 with a Simd unit will be a possible choice.
I expect in that case that it will be still a dual core chip, i think the benchmarks in a case of a single core will not be better than the 7455.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, I think a modified POWER4 + SIMD is a real possibility (but not for this year!). It could have 1-4 core versions (more than 2 would probably come later in its life an on smaller processes). The benchmarks for a single core will likely clobber the 7455, and it will be able to clock higher than the current 7455.

[ 06-20-2002: Message edited by: Programmer ]</p>
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