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Overall tablet sales shrink for the first time as Apple continues to dominate mobile computer market

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Worldwide sales of tablet computers declined by nearly 5 percent in the first quarter of 2014 -- the first such fall since tracking began -- but Apple's iPad maintained its dominant mobile PC position with nearly twice the market share of the closest competitor.




Tablet shipments dropped from 59 million units in the first quarter of 2013 to 56.3 million units in the first quarter of this year, according to a new report from market research firm NPD DisplaySearch. Apple accounted for some 20 percent of the market when laptops and ultrabooks are included, compared to 11 percent for Samsung, the next-largest competitor.

Apple shipped just 16.3 million iPads in the first three months of this year compared to 19.4 million one year ago. Samsung, meanwhile, is thought to have seen a modest shipment increase of around 200,000 units to 9.9 million over the same period.

Despite the downturn, tablets still represented more than half of mobile PC shipments. The iPad accounted for over 80 percent of Apple's own sales by that definition.

Apple is widely expected to bring the iPhone 5s's Touch ID system to the iPad later this year, possibly alongside a new fingerprint-authenticated mobile payments system. Both the iPad Air and iPad mini with Retina display are penciled in for updates this fall.

Even before then, the iPad may gain more powerful computing capabilities with the debut of Apple's next major iOS release, expected to be unveiled at next week's Worldwide Developers Conference. Specifically, iOS 8 is rumored to include support for split-screen multitasking on iPad Air, allowing users to accomplish two tasks at the same time.
post #2 of 36
My iPad 3 remains one of the most useful devices I've ever purchased from any company. Looking forward to whatever comes after the iPad Air.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #3 of 36
I trust NPD's figures about as far as I can toss an African Bull Elephant. Their numbers aren't worth the paper their printed on, and neither is their research. Investor friends of mine have them on ignore totally now.
post #4 of 36
Again, it wouldn't hurt if these analysts specified what tablets the ones in "others" are. Or who makes them. I mean, since these clearly lead the market by far. I have never ever seen a tablet that was not made by a known manufacturer. Most of the tablets out in the real world seem to be iPads anyway.
post #5 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by danv2 View Post

I trust NPD's figures about as far as I can toss an African Bull Elephant. Their numbers aren't worth the paper their printed on, and neither is their research. Investor friends of mine have them on ignore totally now.

And what numbers do you trust?   What numbers do you have for us to go by instead?

 

Do you like BareFigures' numbers better?

post #6 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersheep View Post

Again, it wouldn't hurt if these analysts specified what tablets the ones in "others" are. Or who makes them. I mean, since these clearly lead the market by far. I have never ever seen a tablet that was not made by a known manufacturer. Most of the tablets out in the real world seem to be iPads anyway.

 

I'd imagine that the Kindle Fire would represent a large portion of that group.

 

... but, yes, it just looks sloppy.

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post #7 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

And what numbers do you trust?   What numbers do you have for us to go by instead?

 

Do you like BareFigures' numbers better?

KGI Securities.

post #8 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by danv2 View Post
 

KGI Securities.

And what does KGI have listed for the same periods?

post #9 of 36
"Widely expected" = copy and pasted by rumor sites.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #10 of 36
Actually, even if you buy these numbers, only Apple and Samsung had a drop in sales Q2Q, and they pulled down the world average. But there's an explanation for this that has nothing to do with "market saturation" -> last year, both companies came out with new models in 1Q, but this year they didn't. And Samsung had such bad reviews of the Galaxy line that their sales plummeted.

So I don't think this rises above the "noise" of new product release cycles, and there may yet be significant growth in the tablet market.
post #11 of 36

Could the disconnect be that NPD is showing "SHIPMENTS" vs "SOLD"?  I understand some of these companies release "SOLD" or "SHIPPED" which could be two different sets of numbers since most mfg ship a lot of products to resellers that store a lot of what is not "SOLD" in their inventories.

 

I know sometimes that could be the difference in some of these market research numbers.  I'm not saying I trust NPD's numbers either, but it's always nice to see a variety of different market research numbers whenever possible just to figure out how close they are to one another to get an average of what these companies get.  

 

Barefigres, to my knowledge, just lists the numbers that are released in Apple quarterly reports and nothing else.  So, I kind of trust Barefigures at least for Apple numbers.

post #12 of 36
Since only Apple releases numbers, I'll take this "report" with a grain of salt.
post #13 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Since only Apple releases numbers, I'll take this "report" with a grain of salt.

If i go by NPD's APPLE numbers compared to BareFigures APPLE numbers, they are different from one another and to my knowledge Barefigures gets their APPLE numbers directly from APPLE's quarterly reports and so far, every time Apple releases their numbers, it's the same number when I look at BareFigures for the same quarter.  So, for looking at Apple numbers, I look at BareFigures.

 

In terms of these market research numbers, I look at as many as I can (which may not be everyone) but I can only compare these market research companies numbers and kind of take an average because who knows which one's are the most accurate if they are off from one another.

post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

I know sometimes that could be the difference in some of these market research numbers.  I'm not saying I trust NPD's numbers either, but it's always nice to see a variety of different market research numbers whenever possible just to figure out how close they are to one another to get an average of what these companies get.

That's a curious approach.

 

Now let's say you weren't feeling well. Would you rather go to five doctors, have each one give you a different diagnosis, then try to "average" it out? Same with your car. Let's say it's acting up. Would you like to go to five mechanics?

 

I'd rather go to one person who gets it right. My time is valuable to me, just put me in touch with someone who knows what they are doing. 

 

But that's just me...

 

The funny thing is that all of these anal-ysts run businesses that purport that they are the sole keepers of the "right analysis" and that you should shell out your hard-earned cash for their accuracy. Now since they can't all be right, most are getting paid even though they are wrong.

 

That's the basic problem with tech media sites quoting these anal-ysts willy-nilly without doing any sort of due diligence in tracking accuracy. Quoting every single anal-yst generates page views, but it doesn't provide any knowledge or wisdom, it's just a big pile of data: a little of it good, most of it bad, some of it EXTREMELY BAD.


Edited by mpantone - 5/28/14 at 8:12am
post #15 of 36

I think actually real usage numbers are maybe more valuable then these.  "Shipped" vs "Sold" plays such a huge role in these numbers that it makes them almost pointless.

 

Meanwhile, when you see data regarding how much percentage of actually internet traffic each brand's devices comprises the real story begins to show through.  Do you want a cheap tablet that sits in the closet and never gets used or a real device with real-world application and legitimate value in the long-run?

post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpantone View Post
 

That's a curious approach.

 

Now let's say you weren't feeling well. Would you rather go to five doctors, have each one give you a different diagnosis, then try to "average" it out? Same with your car. Let's say it's acting up. Would you like to go to five mechanics?

 

I'd rather go to one person who gets it right. My time is valuable to me, just put me in touch with someone who knows what they are doing. 

 

But that's just me...

 

The funny thing is that all of these anal-ysts run businesses that purport that they are the sole keepers of the "right analysis" and that you should shell out your hard-earned cash for their accuracy. Now since they can't all be right, most are getting paid even though they are wrong.

 

That's the basic problem with tech media sites quoting these anal-ysts willy-nilly without doing any sort of due diligence in tracking accuracy. Quoting every single anal-yst generates page views, but it doesn't provide any knowledge or wisdom, it's just a big pile of data: a little of it good, most of it bad, some of it EXTREMELY BAD.

Well, how do you determine who's right?  How can you be so sure they are right? Especially when they getting numbers from companies that aren't publicly traded and publicly release their numbers.   I look at BareFigures for Apple numbers since that's who they get their info from.


Now, in terms of the companies that don't report actual sales, how do you know who's right and who's wrong? How do you compare them?

Making the analogy for what doctor to go with isn't the same thing, because who can be sure what is the best doctor.  But if you have a VERY serious disease like Cancer, etc. the smart and wealthy people get second opinions because even the so-called "experts' may not be the best person to go with.  Not everyone has the chance to use more than one doctor because of lack of money or their insurance only covers certain doctors.  So making that analogy wasn't exactly one I would use.  I had a friend of mine that had cancer and all of the experts at Stanford thought he wasn't going to last longer than a year and his family was wealthy enough to research plenty of doctors.  (This was back in the 70's when very little was known).  Well as it turned out, his family sought someone other than the so-called Experts at Stanford, talked to the guy that was doing Peach extracts and 40+ years later, the guy is STILL living and he basically PROVED that some of the most respected doctors at one of the top research hospitals didn't know #hit.  So, when it comes to medicine, it's not a perfect science and if you can afford to get second, third and forth opinions, that's many times the best route to go.  But these reports are just simply numbers.  The problem is that if not all tablet mfg release real numbers, then these market research groups derive numbers some how and they may not be to the penny, but I'm sure they can derive approximations. which is probably as best as they can do. so it's probably better to just survey as many as you can get, figure out how reliable THEIR sources are (if they even mention it) and then maybe take an average or throw out the least reliable numbers.  But again, how do you decide who has the most accurate numbers if the companies don't publicize their numbers?

 

The biggest problem with ANYONE's number is who are their sources.  I really don't look at these kind of numbers anyway, I am more concerned with what Apple releases which shows what Apple is doing compared to themselves.   I might compare to Samsung and maybe a few other major corporations where we can get better numbers from, but the "OTHER" category is probably a made up number by ALL of the market research companies. So I would just look at as many as I could and figure out what's more of an average, but in terms of the "OTHER" category, I don't look at those numbers because it's just a combined of the smallest players that doesn't really matter anyway.   Apple doesn't try to displace the El Cheapo products, so for comparing Apple, I only look at who are the closest REAL competitors.  So, from my standpoint, I will only be most concerned with the top players and the "OTHER" category isn't the top players and I don't care about those since they aren't a REAL competitor to Apple.

 

In terms of analysts, I also don't make the mistake of not believing the because they don't post something positive about Apple, because sometimes, they end up being right.  So, you have to take any bias towards how you like or dislike a company when it comes to what the analysts say.  NONE of them are going to be 100% accurate 100% of the time, even the biggest Pro-Apple analysts have been wrong just as much as the biggest Anti-Apple analysts have been.

 

I take whatever ANY market research and analyst says with a grain of salt and I will run my own numbers, make my own determination, and I will only listen to them IF they make sense as to WHY they think they are right.


So, let me ask you this.  What is it about NPD's numbers that you don't like and show me the numbers from another source that you do like and lets figure out why you think one is more accurate than the other.

post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersheep View Post

Again, it wouldn't hurt if these analysts specified what tablets the ones in "others" are. Or who makes them. I mean, since these clearly lead the market by far. I have never ever seen a tablet that was not made by a known manufacturer. Most of the tablets out in the real world seem to be iPads anyway.

This would represent a good sample of others:  http://www.lightinthebox.com/c/android-tablets_4781/All-3?currency=USD&litb_from=paid_adwords_search&adword_mt=b&adword_ct=37964936731&adword_kw=%2Btablets&adword_pos=1s5&adword_pl=&adword_net=g&adword_tar=&gclid=CjgKEAjwkpacBRCNlprWw-u-nBwSJACwHiw-5xXM6wxQUlb1jz2Pr_Nw_7dRAZ7J1Qxi0l446R-5nfD_BwE

This is the type of crap that the iPad is being compared to.  I have no doubt that there are plenty of emerging nation consumers using these tablets because they're low in cost.  You probably won't see many of them in the U.S. although I know Sears used to sell odd brands of Android tablets.

post #18 of 36

KGI doesn't blow fluffy assumptions on these things; and never has. They predict big splashes, and changes in the wind, not quarterly nonsense. I think NPD doesn't see the forest for the trees. They are the same company that said Window Mobile would be a dominant force this year, and next, and the one after that.

 

They blow smoke up people's asses and expect investors and others to take it as fact. In my mind, they are beyond useless, they are grasping at straws to stay relevant as an entity. I'll just listen to Apple's actual quarterly earnings reports on iPad shipments, and watch these stupid reports get ripped to shreds - like I do quarter after quarter.

post #19 of 36

Just for grins, when it comes to Android numbers, since there are a TON of developers for both Apple and Android phones.  The Apple developers only buy "MAYBE" one of each basic Apple model, but the Android developers may have to buy one of everything that comes out to test their product, even though they are just for testing purposes so a developer that develops for both platforms may only buy a couple of iPhones each year, but they end up buying 100 or more Androd models because they have buy one of each product from each mfg.  So, maybe that's partially the reason why Android has so much market share.  A lot of them are just for developers to test their products and they usually end up not actually used by an end user.  So keep that in mind.

post #20 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersheep View Post

Again, it wouldn't hurt if these analysts specified what tablets the ones in "others" are. Or who makes them. I mean, since these clearly lead the market by far. I have never ever seen a tablet that was not made by a known manufacturer. Most of the tablets out in the real world seem to be iPads anyway.


How about the LeapPads by LeapFrog?  Are they tablets? 

post #21 of 36

@drblank:

 

I'm with danv2. I've watched for years as NPD makes uselessly comical predictions quarter after quarter. 

 

As I clearly qualified in my original post, I said "But that's just me…"

 

But hey, if you want to include their schlock into your analysis, go right ahead

post #22 of 36
Here's another POSSIBILITY on why these Android numbers might be over inflated.

Let's take this example. When Samsung releases their numbers, are they separating out between the Samsung LABELED products vs. PRIVATE labeled? Because they and others sell products with their own label on it as well as making for private labels. So, let's say Samsung sold 100 million tablets, but 25 Million of them were private labeled GOOGLE. Then Google releases that they sold 25 Million Google tablets, so then the perception is that Android tablets just between these two companies is 125 Million units, rather than just 100 Million units because Google tablets were actually counted twice since Google reports what they sold under their name, but they are really Samsung tablets that Samsung reported, only Samsung didn't say how many were OEM and non-OEM.

There are a LOT of companies that make for private labels that may be getting counted twice. Once from the actual mfg and a second time through the private label. maybe that's what's REALLY going on and maybe some of these market research companies can't tell the difference due to the OEM mfg not separating out what's OEM and what isn't.

I could DEFINITELY believe that SOME of Android based sales figures are largely double reported due to this type of behavior.

There are lot of these no name products that I don't know who the heck makes them. What happens if there are companies that aren't publicly traded that make 100 million tablets but are only for the OEM market and they are getting double reported because they don't say who their OEM customers are? There's a possibility that there is a LOT more double reporting than we think.

Who are the actual mfg of products, if they aren't making them,then don't count them, only count the REAL mfg of the products. Obviously, Apple doesn't private label Apple products (they are just mfg by several outsource companies), but LG, ACER, SAMSUNG, ASUS and potentially others mfg products under their name and they private label to others we may not who are getting sold under.
Edited by drblank - 5/28/14 at 10:10am
post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpantone View Post
 

@drblank:

 

I'm with danv2. I've watched for years as NPD makes uselessly comical predictions quarter after quarter. 

 

As I clearly qualified in my original post, I said "But that's just me…"

 

But hey, if you want to include their schlock into your analysis, go right ahead

Did I say that I use their numbers?  NO. So why did you insinuate that I did?  I just asked who you guys are using and how can you tell if they are any better.

 

I'm mostly interested in what Apple sells and I'm looking at how Apple is performing against themselves and MAYBE what Samsung or other REAL competitors to them.  In the tablet and smartphone market, it's really just a two horse race between Apple and Samsung, maybe ASUS, ACER, HTC might have certain degrees of competition, but again, I only look at what Apple really reports and I get that from BareFigures since that's where they get their numbers.  The rest of the market research companies are hit and miss.

 

Now, when reporting the usage, that only dictates what's getting used and has nothing to do with sales, but it can give a little guidance I guess on how many of these units sold are actually being used, because I know that a lot of people might buy these POS cheap tablets and not even use the darn things, as they are buying them just to feel like they have something when its just not a useful product.  I have a friend that just bought one POS V-Tech tablet for his kid and it's more of a toy than any serious tablet, but are these "TOY tablets" that get sold part of the OTHER category?  There are plenty of these really cheap toy tablets that get sold.  Are they part of the "OTHER" category?  I don't even know what OS it's using because it doesn't look like an Android OS either.

post #24 of 36
Recently bought first tablet, iPad Air 128 GB. It shines at presentations but aside from that sits collecting dust. Prefer surfing web on Macbook Air and creating content on iMac. Will I get another tablet anytime soon? NO!
post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Just for grins, when it comes to Android numbers, since there are a TON of developers for both Apple and Android phones.  The Apple developers only buy "MAYBE" one of each basic Apple model, but the Android developers may have to buy one of everything that comes out to test their product, even though they are just for testing purposes so a developer that develops for both platforms may only buy a couple of iPhones each year, but they end up buying 100 or more Androd models because they have buy one of each product from each mfg.  So, maybe that's partially the reason why Android has so much market share.  A lot of them are just for developers to test their products and they usually end up not actually used by an end user.  So keep that in mind.

 

You're overestimating the bulk of developers when it comes to test procedures. With the bugs I've seen in the B and C titles on iOS and Android, it's pretty clear that much of their testing is farmed out to their users, and they're releasing "betas" as final releases. This is unfortunately common in a lot of software outside of the mobile arena as well.

 

The iOS advantage in this case is the limited number of discrete configurations. It's entirely possible that a given developer would have access to the top 5 currently most popular iPads and Android tablets. For iOS devices, that would represent an enormous percentage of the user base, but this is not true for Android.

post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Recently bought first tablet, iPad Air 128 GB. It shines at presentations but aside from that sits collecting dust. Prefer surfing web on Macbook Air and creating content on iMac. Will I get another tablet anytime soon? NO!

Why did you buy the most expensive model if you didn't have a good reason to own it. I only use my iPad for one purpose, music creation, though it's used everyday for hours at a time and it's an important device for me. If your going to keep it you should really find at least one major thing to use it for otherwise it's just a complete waste. If not I would defiantly sell it before the new model comes out so you can at least recuperate most of what you paid for it.

Unfortunately I also know a few people who have bought very exspensive tablets only to have them sit around. I recently had a friend who bought an iPad Air with the Logitch keyboard case, she wanted it to replace her old black Macbook. Unfortunately she didn't do any research and found the experience frustrating as a laptop replacment, so it was put in the drawer and forgotten. I convinced her to sell it and use the money towards a Lenovo ThinkPad 10, it's exactly what she was looking for and now couldn't be happier. I'm not saying the Lenovo is better or anything, for example with music creation I would personally still want the iPad but for office and programming then I would defiantly go with something like the ThinkPad. The point is you just need to know what your expectations and needs are and then buy accordingly. That's why I never go to the grocery store hungry and without a list, so I don't come out with stuff that I don't need or is potentially bad for me, though a chocolate bar always seems to find it's way into my bag.
Edited by Relic - 5/28/14 at 12:17pm
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post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Why did you buy the most expensive model if you didn't have a good reason to own it. I only use my iPad for one purpose, music creation, though it's used everyday for hours at a time and it's an important device for me. If your going to keep it you should really find at least one major thing to use it for otherwise it's just a complete waste. If not I would defiantly sell it before the new model comes out so you can at least recuperate most of what you paid for it.

Unfortunately I also know a few people who have bought very exspensive tablets only to have them sit around. I recently had a friend who bought an iPad Air with the Logitch keyboard case, she wanted it to replace her Macbook. Unfortunately she didn't do any research and found the experience frustrating as a laptop replacment, so it was put in the drawer and forgotten. I convinced her to sell it and use the money towards a Lenovo ThinkPad 10, it's exactly what she was looking for and now couldn't be happier. I'm not saying the Lenovo is better or anything, for example with music creation I would personally still want the iPad but for Office and Programming then defiantly the Lenovo. The point is you just need to know what your expectations and needs are and then buy accordingly. That's why I never go to the grocery store hungry and without a list, so I don't come out with stuff that I don't need or is potentially bad for me.

IPad excels at presentation which is helpful to me as an artist. It's useful having all my images and media instantly accessible in a portable format. I use 70% capacity. As you know the more capacity, the cheaper RAM cost. Problem for me is I prefer OS X over IOS, I'm acclimated to compute that way. I'm more comfortable with keyboard and trackpad over touch. I like typing on the iPad, it works beautifully, but is will never replace my MB Air. Users who came of age in the mobile era acclimate more easily to touch. 

post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
 

 

You're overestimating the bulk of developers when it comes to test procedures. With the bugs I've seen in the B and C titles on iOS and Android, it's pretty clear that much of their testing is farmed out to their users, and they're releasing "betas" as final releases. This is unfortunately common in a lot of software outside of the mobile arena as well.

 

The iOS advantage in this case is the limited number of discrete configurations. It's entirely possible that a given developer would have access to the top 5 currently most popular iPads and Android tablets. For iOS devices, that would represent an enormous percentage of the user base, but this is not true for Android.

Maybe so, but I'm sure it's part of it.  I run into these small time developers using Android and they have a fairly large collection of Android phones.  They won't say how many they have, but some of them show about 5 or 6 models of what they currently have and they are constantly buying new models and selling off their older ones almost like people go through toilet paper.  I was being partly sarcastic.  

post #29 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

 

You're overestimating the bulk of developers when it comes to test procedures. With the bugs I've seen in the B and C titles on iOS and Android, it's pretty clear that much of their testing is farmed out to their users, and they're releasing "betas" as final releases. This is unfortunately common in a lot of software outside of the mobile arena as well.

 

The iOS advantage in this case is the limited number of discrete configurations. It's entirely possible that a given developer would have access to the top 5 currently most popular iPads and Android tablets. For iOS devices, that would represent an enormous percentage of the user base, but this is not true for Android.

 



I've seen plenty of people running around with several Android phones at the same time. probably because the battery life sucked is my guess. But I've only had one cell phone at any given time. But I've run into people running around with two and sometime three phones at the same time.

Then you have a whole crop of these guys on the YouTube acting like Mr. Smartphone Expert and they basically have every model imaginable and they memorize every spec, every feature, but they are individuals. It's kind of stupid, but I'm sure that's part of it.
post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

IPad excels at presentation which is helpful to me as an artist. It's useful having all my images and media instantly accessible in a portable format. I use 70% capacity. As you know the more capacity, the cheaper RAM cost. Problem for me is I prefer OS X over IOS, I'm acclimated to compute that way. I'm more comfortable with keyboard and trackpad over touch. I like typing on the iPad, it works beautifully, but is will never replace my MB Air. Users who came of age in the mobile era acclimate more easily to touch. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Recently bought first tablet, iPad Air 128 GB. It shines at presentations but aside from that sits collecting dust. Prefer surfing web on Macbook Air and creating content on iMac. Will I get another tablet anytime soon? NO!

Oh, well then enjoy, you just made it sound like you were unhappy with the whole tablet concept.
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post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I recently had a friend who bought an iPad Air... she found the experience frustrating as a laptop replacment, so it was put in the drawer and forgotten. I convinced her to sell it and use the money towards a Lenovo ThinkPad 10, it's exactly what she was looking for and now couldn't be happier. I'm not saying the Lenovo is better or anything, for example with music creation I would personally still want the iPad but for office and programming then I would defiantly go with something like the ThinkPad.

Is this a genuine story this time? It sounds like another one of those 'I know lots of people with broken iPhones' etc at which point comes the recommendation for an anything-but-Apple product. You even managed to slip in the drawer comment often used about Android tablets. This is the classic 'my friend/partner/child used to use something you like but then got something else and couldn't be happier':

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152839/rules-of-the-troll-wip#post_2250534

A few people on Amazon seem to think they are garbage tablets:

http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Tablet-Stylus-367927U/dp/B009TLA7P4

Poor quality, poor user experience. The following is from someone who bought 40 tablets for productive use with Microsoft Access:

"Of the 40 we purchased, 4 of them were not functional out of the box, 3 had OS problems and 1 just wouldn't turn on. An additional 1 broke 2 weeks later. We contacted Lenovo and are waiting for recovery DVDs to try to fix the 3 with the OS problems.

The ones that are 'working' have had a host of problems, the batteries are inconsistent and do not last more the 6 hrs running a simple database. The digitizer pen is completely goofed. We have needed to recalibrate the thing continuously and the driver mysteriously causes and error and stop functioning. We have to reinstall the driver constantly just to keep it working. The unit sometimes just doesn't want to turn on and you have to 'reboot' the thing by holding the power button and volume button at the same time.

Windows 8 is a complete joke. For anyone old enough to remember Windows 3.1, it is the same idea. A shell of an OS sitting on top of an established OS, in that case Windows 3.1 on top of DOS and in this case Windows 8 on top of Windows 7. I have both IPADs and Androids, there is no comparison. Windows 8 is not ready for prime time.

Please do your self a favor and don't buy this product; feel my pain."

The positive reviews mention the benefits of having full Windows but some even gave it a positive review after moving back to a laptop. Having a fully productive platform is nice but not with a classic UI because they have to revert to using a stylus.

This is why Apple dominates in the tablet world, they stuck to making the device pleasant to use for long periods of time.
post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Is this a genuine story this time? It sounds like another one of those 'I know lots of people with broken iPhones' etc at which point comes the recommendation for an anything-but-Apple product. You even managed to slip in the drawer comment often used about Android tablets. This is the classic 'my friend/partner/child used to use something you like but then got something else and couldn't be happier':

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152839/rules-of-the-troll-wip#post_2250534

A few people on Amazon seem to think they are garbage tablets:

http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Tablet-Stylus-367927U/dp/B009TLA7P4

Poor quality, poor user experience. The following is from someone who bought 40 tablets for productive use with Microsoft Access:

"Of the 40 we purchased, 4 of them were not functional out of the box, 3 had OS problems and 1 just wouldn't turn on. An additional 1 broke 2 weeks later. We contacted Lenovo and are waiting for recovery DVDs to try to fix the 3 with the OS problems.

The ones that are 'working' have had a host of problems, the batteries are inconsistent and do not last more the 6 hrs running a simple database. The digitizer pen is completely goofed. We have needed to recalibrate the thing continuously and the driver mysteriously causes and error and stop functioning. We have to reinstall the driver constantly just to keep it working. The unit sometimes just doesn't want to turn on and you have to 'reboot' the thing by holding the power button and volume button at the same time.

Windows 8 is a complete joke. For anyone old enough to remember Windows 3.1, it is the same idea. A shell of an OS sitting on top of an established OS, in that case Windows 3.1 on top of DOS and in this case Windows 8 on top of Windows 7. I have both IPADs and Androids, there is no comparison. Windows 8 is not ready for prime time.

Please do your self a favor and don't buy this product; feel my pain."

The positive reviews mention the benefits of having full Windows but some even gave it a positive review after moving back to a laptop. Having a fully productive platform is nice but not with a classic UI because they have to revert to using a stylus.

This is why Apple dominates in the tablet world, they stuck to making the device pleasant to use for long periods of time.

Wow, so anyway yes I wouldn't make up a story for the sake of a post. I've mentioned before that I have the 8 inch version of the ThinkPad so for me to recommend to someone the 10 inch is very easy. There is no conspiracy here, I wasn't trying to convey that they were in anyway better. Just used it as an example of about knowing what you want before you buy something so, no need to sift through the Lenovo forums looking for an unsatisfied user. I think you are so used to defending Apple's honour that comments such as these are just reflex.

How are you, haven't talked with you in awhile.
Edited by Relic - 5/28/14 at 10:19pm
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #33 of 36
It's because the smartphone screen are getting larger and larger?
I would use my iPad much more when I had an iPhone 4S and not nearly as much with a 5S. I would imagine much much less with an iPhone 6. It's too much like a large iPod touch with the exception of it now having Office.
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
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Where's the new Apple TV?
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post #34 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by danv2 View Post

I trust NPD's figures about as far as I can toss an African Bull Elephant. Their numbers aren't worth the paper their printed on, and neither is their research. Investor friends of mine have them on ignore totally now.
And what numbers do you trust?   What numbers do you have for us to go by instead?

Do you like BareFigures' numbers better?

I trust Apple's numbers. They are the only company that provide any.
“I wasted time, and now doth time waste me.”
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“I wasted time, and now doth time waste me.”
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post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


I trust Apple's numbers. They are the only company that provide any.

Barefigures uses Apple numbers.  That's where they get their information from.  If you look at different graphs, they get cut off for some of it because Apple stopped reporting it in the manner that they used to, but Barefigures is Apple numbers.  I like the way they have it organized because you can do all sorts of comparisons and they update it shortly after Apple reports the new quarterly numbers.  It's a great site to play around with.

post #36 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I trust Apple's numbers. They are the only company that provide any.
Barefigures uses Apple numbers.  That's where they get their information from.  If you look at different graphs, they get cut off for some of it because Apple stopped reporting it in the manner that they used to, but Barefigures is Apple numbers.  I like the way they have it organized because you can do all sorts of comparisons and they update it shortly after Apple reports the new quarterly numbers.  It's a great site to play around with.

You're missing the point. NO-ONE BUT APPLE PROVIDES ANY NUMBERS.
“I wasted time, and now doth time waste me.”
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“I wasted time, and now doth time waste me.”
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