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Apple's massive $3B bet on Beats a sure thing compared to all-in gamble on NeXT in 1996 - Page 2

post #41 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post
.... their 75% + profit margin ....

On what planet?

post #42 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post
 

 Apple doesn't want Beats headphone technology and engineering, they want the brand so that they can build off of that.

 

 

The Beats brand is garbage compared to Apple, so it makes no sense at all for Apple to want to build off of that.

 

What's next? Is Ferrari going to acquire the Ford Pinto brand, because they wish to build off of that, since their own name isn't good enough obviously?

post #43 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post
 

Typical acquisition costs are 2.5x gross revenue so....

Where did you see that?!

post #44 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

This is an ignorant pile of thought. With just over 300 regular full-time employees, world-wide, Apple gains a world class Operating System for the Consumer to the Federal Govt., decades worth of technologies that are the heart and soul of Apple today.

Sorry, but please don't speak of NeXT, unless you were an employee at NeXT. You paint yourself a fool to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I've never worked at NeXT and I'm not connected to them in any way, but I would be offended too, if somebody compared NeXT, which provided the foundation that all Apple products are built upon today, to a company that merely makes headphones. What a joke.lol.gif

What?! Why must you be an employee of a company in order to be able to mention them? How many of us here have worked for Apple? Have you worked for Apple, or just NeXT, mdriftmeyer?

The comparison is valid because this is the largest known acquisition that has exceeded their NeXT acquisition, and it exceeds it by nearly 8x. All this is comparing is the relative size when you look at Apple's value today compared to then. This is a beautiful way of looking at it because it shows that Beats is a relatively small purchase compared to NeXT despite the direct cost being nearly 8x higher.

If anything you two should see how this lauds Apple's NeXT purchase as being even more significant.

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post #45 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

The Beats brand is garbage compared to Apple, so it makes no sense at all for Apple to want to build off of that.

 

What's next? Is Ferrari going to acquire the Ford Pinto brand, because they wish to build off of that, since their own name isn't good enough obviously?

Beats brand is garbage compared to Apple's mobile devices and computers, not headphones. If you go outside and ask anyone about Apple's solution to headphones, they would say "What, you mean EarPods?" and then start laughing at you. So while Apple could make their own premium line of headphones, they choose not to. Even the EarPods they make for their own products are not considered premium.

post #46 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post
 

Beats brand is garbage compared to Apple's mobile devices and computers, not headphones. If you go outside and ask anyone about Apple's solution to headphones, they would say "What, you mean EarPods?" and then start laughing at you. So while Apple could make their own premium line of headphones, they choose not to. Even the EarPods they make for their own products are not considered premium.

 

Apple's headphones are free when people buy certain devices, so I don't think that it's a fair comparison at all to compare a free headphone to other third party headphones that are definitely not free. Apple's newer earpods are definitely a step above the previous earphones that Apple made, which were also free.

 

And I still think that Apple chose not to acquire the best, they merely chose to acquire what's popular at the moment within a certain group of people, and I believe that goes against Apple's DNA.

post #47 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

The price or the amount has never been my main concern, and it shouldn't be Apple's main priority either, if I am to believe what Apple has said in the past.

Helpful hint: 

 

Never believe anything Apple has said in the past. It's in the past and may not be relevant in the future. 

post #48 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Good enough for the masses is not a benchmark that Apple should be aspiring to. I hold them to higher standards than that, or at least I used to.

 

I completely disagree and it would appear that the executives at Apple do as well.  Apple has always put the user experience over having the best specs or the most options.  Good enough for the masses is their bread and butter.  Apple has always been about taking technology and making it accessible to as many people as possible in terms of design and usability.  The beauty of Apple products is their simplicity while still being functional, not being the most powerful.

 

In the sound world, just look at the substandard earbuds that come with iDevices.  Even Iovine was talking down about them which is highly unusual considering their recent business arrangement.  Beats headphones, while not my choice and not your choice will certainly be a step up from where Apple was at.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

And I still think that Apple chose not to acquire the best, they merely chose to acquire what's popular at the moment within a certain group of people, and I believe that goes against Apple's DNA.


Depends on how you define best.  Beats is the best in certain categories.  It just depends on which categories you place importance in.  As far as going against Apple's DNA, once again I disagree as well as the exectutives at Apple disagreeing too.  Cook is on record saying that he's pleased with the Beats brand and the quality of their headphones.

 

EDIT:  "They've also built an incredible premium headphone business that’s been tuned by experts and critical ears." - Tim Cook

http://recode.net/2014/05/28/tim-cook-explains-why-apple-is-buying-beats-qa/


Edited by DroidFTW - 5/29/14 at 2:19pm
post #49 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

Apple's headphones are free when people buy certain devices, so I don't think that it's a fair comparison at all to compare a free headphone to other third party headphones that are not definitely not free. Apple's newer earpods are definitely a step above the previous earphones that Apple made, which were also free.

 

And I still think that Apple chose not acquire the best, they merely chose to acquire what's popular at the moment within a certain group of people, and I believe that goes against Apple's DNA.

- Profitable company
- Sells expensive headphones people are willing to buy in large quantities
- Streaming service
- Content creator connections
- Previous work history with the people involved
- A way to add value by getting people to use Apple related products on other platforms
- Apple can get far more favorable pricing on components than Beats alone. So there is a clear path for Apple to significantly improve upon the quality of the headphones.

 

If acquiring an already thriving and highly profitable business is not in Apple's DNA, it should be. 

post #50 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
 

My original negative take was based off of a headphone purchase a young friend of mine made several months back. He often consults me about any tech type questions and asks my opinion. He wanted some high quality headphones and was trying to decide between a few different Beats models. I did some research and gave him a few suggestions for models by Shure and Sennheiser instead were actually cheaper but seemed to get far better ratings from some pro review sites. He would have none of it. He would not consider those brands for even a second. It was Beats or nothing. So even though he knew review sites rated Beats poorly and thought they were overpriced, that is what he wanted and would not even consider superior sounding and cheaper alternatives. That says a lot. Imagine how sticky the consumers will be once Apple engineers get a chance to actually make Beats headphones sound far better. 

Reviews can be subjective and so can sound to any person.  Although you made recommendations, maybe your friend did not like the sound of Shure or Sennheiser.  Maybe he preferred the sound quality of Beats, even though you don't like them.  Maybe he hurt your ego for not going with headphones you wanted him to buy, but it sounds like he found headphones that he likes.  The Beats headphones do not sound bad, if that is the sound you prefer.  Many people either love or hate Bose products, but it all depends on the sound quality you prefer.  

 

I had the Harmon Kardon original SoundSticks (USB) for over 10 years.  They are highly reviewed and award winning in design.  I always thought they sounded great, which they still do.  I recently replaced them with the Bose Companion IIIs, and the Bose sound better than the SoundSticks in my opinion.  They have a brighter sound, deeper bass, and more power than the HKs.  The Bose also look better in appearance, matching the look of my iMac better than the HKs.

 

Don't knock your friend for listening to your advice, then deciding on his own what he preferred to buy.  I am sure he considered your options, but preferred the sound of Beats.

post #51 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



What?! Why must you be an employee of a company in order to be able to mention them? How many of us here have worked for Apple? Have you worked for Apple, or just NeXT, mdriftmeyer?

The comparison is valid because this is the largest known acquisition that has exceeded their NeXT acquisition, and it exceeds it by nearly 8x. All this is comparing is the relative size when you look at Apple's value today compared to then. This is a beautiful way of looking at it because it shows that Beats is a relatively small purchase compared to NeXT despite the direct cost being nearly 8x higher.

If anything you two should see how this lauds Apple's NeXT purchase as being even more significant.

You know who you are dealing with... 

post #52 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post
 

Reviews can be subjective and so can sound to any person.  Although you made recommendations, maybe your friend did not like the sound of Shure or Sennheiser.  Maybe he preferred the sound quality of Beats, even though you don't like them.  Maybe he hurt your ego for not going with headphones you wanted him to buy, but it sounds like he found headphones that he likes.  The Beats headphones do not sound bad, if that is the sound you prefer.  Many people either love or hate Bose products, but it all depends on the sound quality you prefer.  

 

I had the Harmon Kardon original SoundSticks (USB) for over 10 years.  They are highly reviewed and award winning in design.  I always thought they sounded great, which they still do.  I recently replaced them with the Bose Companion IIIs, and the Bose sound better than the SoundSticks in my opinion.  They have a brighter sound, deeper bass, and more power than the HKs.  The Bose also look better in appearance, matching the look of my iMac better than the HKs.

 

Don't knock your friend for listening to your advice, then deciding on his own what he preferred to buy.  I am sure he considered your options, but preferred the sound of Beats.

I prefer bass heavy headphones. So given the reviews I may check out a pair. Now I will have a pair of Bose for at the gym and a pair for elsewhere. After trying out beats streaming service I actually prefer it to Spotify. 


Edited by AdonisSMU - 5/29/14 at 2:21pm
post #53 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

I've never worked at NeXT and I'm not connected to them in any way, but I would be offended too, if somebody compared NeXT, which provided the foundation that all Apple products are built upon today, to a company that merely makes headphones. What a joke.:lol:

The point is that NeXT was an expensive purchase. BEATS is not an expensive purchase. It's already paid for itself as the stock price went up 11 bucks which translates into billions of dollars for apple. 

post #54 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

Exactly, they're fashionable and good enough for the masses.  They're not what I would choose, but I tend to require more from my tech devices then your average user so performance trumps style everytime.  If I can save money in the process, then that's a bonus!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Good enough for the masses is not a benchmark that Apple should be aspiring to. I hold them to higher standards than that, or at least I used to.

Spot On.

But Why " FanDroid " is Paticipating in The Argument of Appleinsider in The First Place ?
post #55 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

I've never worked at NeXT and I'm not connected to them in any way, but I would be offended too, if somebody compared NeXT, which provided the foundation that all Apple products are built upon today, to a company that merely makes headphones. What a joke.:lol:

 

I agree.  The technology created at NeXT was decades ahead of its time and, when the cost of the computing hardware required to make it work came down to levels which the average person could afford, it enabled the turnaround of Apple.  Hardly comparable.

 
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post #56 of 109
Time and Place (Space), I don't even see WHY (not how) you would even possibly compare Beats to NeXT! bah!
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post #57 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Apple's headphones are free when people buy certain devices, so I don't think that it's a fair comparison at all to compare a free headphone to other third party headphones that are definitely not free. Apple's newer earpods are definitely a step above the previous earphones that Apple made, which were also free.

And I still think that Apple chose not to acquire the best, they merely chose to acquire what's popular at the moment within a certain group of people, and I believe that goes against Apple's DNA.

You're right and that's why I trust Apple's choices as a shareholder and customer. I think there are a few details we do not know about here. But even on the surface, this is a solid business move. At least that seems to be the Wall Street concensus today.
post #58 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMETA View Post

Spot On.

But Why " FanDroid " is Paticipating in The Argument of Appleinsider in The First Place ?

 

Yeah, it's kind of like bizzaro world all of a sudden.

 

Somebody with "Droid" in their name is defending Apple and thinks that this deal is awesome, while somebody with "Apple" in their name is criticizing Apple and is skeptical to this deal. :lol:

post #59 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post
 

The point is that NeXT was an expensive purchase. BEATS is not an expensive purchase. It's already paid for itself as the stock price went up 11 bucks which translates into billions of dollars for apple. 

 

And Apple went from about $5 a share in 1998 to over $600 a share building products on top of the technology foundation created at NeXT.  Obviously there's more to the picture (well-designed hardware, good marketing, etc), but it was a big part of making that happen.

 
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post #60 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

Yeah, it's kind of like bizzaro world all of a sudden.

 

Somebody with "Droid" in their name is defending Apple and thinks that this deal is awesome, while somebody with "Apple" in their name is criticizing Apple and is skeptical to this deal. :lol:

I don't hold much stock in names. 

post #61 of 109
Damn. Now Dre is definitely not finishing his album.
post #62 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Yeah, it's kind of like bizzaro world all of a sudden.

Somebody with "Droid" in their name is defending Apple and thinks that this deal is awesome, while somebody with "Apple" in their name is criticizing Apple and is skeptical to this deal. lol.gif

Irony at its best. 1wink.gif
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post #63 of 109
Come on. Someone say it. The purchase proves that Apple is not a whitey only world.
When you look around at the people that use Samsung and Beats, these people will be pulled into the Apple thing.
post #64 of 109

It's nots as central a bet as NeXT. If OS X hadn't worked out, with the engineers who came along in the deal, then it was D.O.A. If the Jonny Ive-designed next round of Beats is a bust, oh, too bad. 

 

I think the unspoken during most of this is not the headliners, but the other staff that may have come with it. 

post #65 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharliePotatoes View Post

Come on. Someone say it. The purchase proves that Apple is not a whitey only world.
When you look around at the people that use Samsung and Beats, these people will be pulled into the Apple thing.

 

Not sure where you're going with your racial remark and I'm pretty sure I don't want to know.

 

That said, my experience is that people who wear Beats headphones have iPhones attached to them the vast majority of the time.  That's not to imply that those who don't use iPhones are using anything better (usually Sony or Skullcandy), just that I'm not convinced that Apple will be stealing away any business from Samsung or any other smartphone manufacturer with this purchase.

post #66 of 109

This is what Tim Cook should have announced:

 

"Today I would like to announce a special Deal with Beats. In 2003, Apple started the iTunes Music Store to create a legitimate online music market to counter piracy and help us sell more iPods. Today, the online music business is thriving with many quality companies and many quality products, all of which have App Store access. Apple's mission in this space is therefore accomplished.

 

"So today I will be announcing the biggest deal in Apple's history. For $3bn, we will be selling the iTunes Music Store to Beats. We feel they are people after our own values and will be good future stewards of the Store. This will allow Apple to maintain our laser focus on what we're best at, innovative computer based products. 

 

"We do not feel that the market for online Movies, TV Shows and Books is as mature as we would like, so we will hold on to these parts of the Store for now. And of course the App Store will always remain under our control. And we reserve the right to open new branches of iTunes in future, as we perceive new markets that need a push.

 

"My congratulations to Jimmy and Dre on their new acquisition."

post #67 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharliePotatoes View Post

Come on. Someone say it. The purchase proves that Apple is not a whitey only world.
When you look around at the people that use Samsung and Beats, these people will be pulled into the Apple thing.

 

I see. So you're claiming that this deal has racial motivations? In that case, wouldn't that be extremely racist?

 

Maybe Apple should split their product lines into racial and cultural categories, to fit this new brilliant line of thinking.

 

When somebody steps into an Apple shop, from now on they will have to pass through a melanin detector and they will then be guided to the appropriate section of the store based on their readings. The darker they are, the greater the likelihood that they would be directed towards the "Beats" section of the Apple store.

 

And the reason why many people have Samsung or other Android phones has nothing to do with color, it has a lot to do with income. Poor people come in all colors, and with the bad economy and very high unemployment for certain groups, it makes sense that they would tend to gravitate towards large sized cheap Android phones and phablets, which would double as a tablet for them, since many people and especially younger people and kids can not afford both.

post #68 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by sucaj View Post

This acquisition has almost single-handedly sucked out all of my enthusiasm for Apple... and I say this as the owner of my 6th iPhone, 3rd iPad, and countless MacBooks/Powerbooks.   Facebook and Google are busy acquiring innovative tech companies like Oculus and Word Lens - and Apple is busy acquiring for image and style.  This is like Apple acquiring king-of-shitty-audio Bose.  If you think Beats sound good, you should have turned up your bass EQ and saved yourself the $200 brand fee.  This is a horrible mismatch in company culture and product design approach.  This is the business version of cranky old neighbor Tim Cook listening to "the rap music" in order to relate to the neighborhood kids. 

One more step and you'd have the point. You say "Apple is . . . acquiring for image and style."

No, because Beats got to be the favored brand/image/style by having the right sound. Dr. Dre wouldn't have been able to pull it off if they didn't have the right sound.

It's not the right sound for your demographic, because you belong to a group that abhors that bass-y beat. The Beats demographic lives on that big bass, and that's a much larger demographic worldwide than you belong to. Should Apple shun or embrace the Planet Drum generation, the majority of the world's young? That's the question for you,

But it's not about image or style, it's about rhythm that can be felt. We miss that point at our peril.
post #69 of 109

Way to miss the point.  I do not "abhor a bass-y beat".  I prefer my headphones to accurately recreate the sound of what I'm listening to (shocker, I know).  When I want a lot of bass, as I frequently do, I turn up the EQ - like everyone else since the dawn of home stereo.  

 

Beats takes that power out of my hands by artificially enhancing the low-end regardless of whether I want it or not - a process which causes clipping and results in inferior sound.  Their hardware isn't any better at the low-end than the cheapest of headphones - it's just artificially amplified at all times.  It's not any more complicated than that.  In fact, not only is the hardware not better, it's worse - by overstimulating the senses with a heavy and impressive low end, they overshadow the pathetic performance from the midrange and upper frequencies in the crappy driver components they use.  

post #70 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

When considering a smartphone a few years ago, I inquired about iPhone, but got recommendations that another brand (Palm Pre) was cheaper, had better reviews, and so forth.  Okay, I took the advice, and got shackled with a dead-end OS, hardware that was difficult to use, couldn't do simple navigation without paying a fee to the carrier, and ultimately withered and died.

I can't blame your young friend for choosing the models he sees in actual use, doing what he wants.

My dad bought a car that had bad reviews, but he thought it looked nice and a lot of his friends were driving one, so he got it. The car gave him a lot of problems, cost him a lot of money, and he wished he'd never bought it. He said it was the worst car he's ever owned.

Since both of our stories are opposing, I guess nothing in the universe is true anymore.
post #71 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Hire that man!

Why would I throw money away? I can buy a pair of headphones that sound better and are better quality for that money. The beats brand means nothing to me. They cost a lot because they cost a lot. Apple costs a lot, but they also have a reputation and I've had positive experiences with them through friends and using them now and again. Now I own a lot of apple stuff. Beats stuff is repeatedly shown to be like a nike brand, only expensive because celebrities wear it and the advertising all over.
post #72 of 109
You're a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

One more step and you'd have the point. You say "Apple is . . . acquiring for image and style."

No, because Beats got to be the favored brand/image/style by having the right sound. Dr. Dre wouldn't have been able to pull it off if they didn't have the right sound.

It's not the right sound for your demographic, because you belong to a group that abhors that bass-y beat. The Beats demographic lives on that big bass, and that's a much larger demographic worldwide than you belong to. Should Apple shun or embrace the Planet Drum generation, the majority of the world's young? That's the question for you,

But it's not about image or style, it's about rhythm that can be felt. We miss that point at our peril.

You're a really big beats fan aren't you?
post #73 of 109

Before

 

 

After

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #74 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post
 

The real reason Apple bought Beats: they gave up trying to develop good earbuds and bought them for their expertise.

 

/s

 

But in all seriousness, I sense Apple will bundle Beats branded EarPods with the next-generation iPhone and iPods.

 

Only at a premium upgrade price.

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post #75 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Before

[image]

After
[image]


Before:


After:



Before:


After:

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post #76 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

You can get Beats Executive for $199 at Costco

 

http://www.frugalhotspot.com/2013/12/beats-executive-by-dr-dre/

 

Interesting that it uses batteries, could they have an amp in there somewhere?

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #77 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

Before

 

 

After

 

And much, much later...

 

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post #78 of 109
Things just ain't the same for gangstas.
Times is changing, young niggas is aging,
Becoming old gees in the game and changing,
To make way for these new names and faces, but
The strangest things can happen from rappin, when
Niggas get wrapped up in image and acting,
Niggas get capped up and wrapped in plastic,
Zipped up in bags when it happens, that's it.
I've seen 'em come; I've watched 'em go,
Watched 'em rise, witnessed it and watched 'em blow.
Watched 'em all blossom and watched 'em grow.
Watched the lawsuits when they lost the dough.
Best friends and money: I lost them both.
Went, visited niggas in the hospital.
It's all the same shit all across the globe.
I just sit back and watch the show.

I moved out of the hood for good, you blame me?
Niggas aim mainly at niggas they can't be.
But niggas can't hit niggas they can't see.
I'm out of sight, now I'm out of they dang reach.
How would you feel if niggas wanted you killed?
You'd probably move to a new house on a new hill.
And choose a new spot if niggas wanted you shot,
I ain't a thug, how much Tupac in you, you got
I ain't no bitch neither.
It's either my life or your life,
And I ain't leaving, I like breathing.
Nigga we can go round for round,
Clip for clip, shit, fo'-pound for pound.
Nigga if you really want to take it there we can,
Just remember that you fucking with a family man.
I got a lot more to lose than you, remember that,
When you wanna come and fill these shoes.

Things just ain't the same for gangstas,
Cops is anxious to put niggas in handcuffs.
They wanna hang us, see us dead, enslave us,
Keep us trapped in the same place we're raised in.
Then they wonder why we act so outrageous,
Run around stressed out and pull out gauges.
Cause everytime you let the animal out cages,
It's dangerous to people who look like strangers.
But now we got a new era of gangstas,
Hustlers and youngsters living amongst us.
Lookin at us, now calling us busters,
Can't help but reminisce back when it was us.
Nigga we started this gangsta shit.
And this the motherfucking thanks I get?
It's funny how time fly,
I'm just having fun, just watching it fly by.

—The Watcher by Andre "Dr. Dre" Young

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post #79 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Interesting that it uses batteries, could they have an amp in there somewhere?

All the noise canceling headphones I've owned used a battery.

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post #80 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Things just ain't the same for gangsters...
—The Watcher by Andre "Dr. Dre" Young

 

Kids say the darndest things! :smokey:


Edited by SpamSandwich - 5/29/14 at 4:13pm

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