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post #41 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post


I called it. I said that developer resources at Apple would have been primarily used to convert iOS to 64bit, which is why iOS 7 wasn't a huge update.

Now that the difficult 64bit transition is done, Apple could devote resources back to iOS 8 itself. And boy did they deliver.

 

this.

 

Apple just layed down another 5 years of OS foundation: 64 Bit, Biometrically protected, with New faster language, New GL 'to the metal'  interface.   That's covers a new generation of developers, and as grow curves go, will take Apple to the 2 Billion iOS user range.  (if 130 Million NEW users last year is a factual number... figure that it will be 200+ million in a couple years).

post #42 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post
 

- Metal.  pretty much lays down a gaming engine that can take an AppleTV (yeah, that's an iOS system), and turn it into a serious gaming platform, let alone the interface for iPad, iPhone

 

 

Read between the lines with today's keynote and you can see all sorts of new HW coming down the pipeline in the next few months to few years. New AppleTV is just one of them.  Lots of cool new features that are cool, but could be much cooler and seemed to be designed for new HW in the future.

 

Nintendo, and to a slightly lesser extent, Xbox (MS) and Playstation (Sony) just had a massive shot fired across their bow.

 

As did all the Android flunkies.

post #43 of 213

anyone seen any syntax for this yet? 

post #44 of 213
I can't hold back and write another post.

This announcement ALONE cemented current developers to the OSX/iOS platform more than any other device and user statistics... PLUS, it gave 1000's of other developers a serious twitch in the pants to give developing on the Mac a really serious "take me" look.

Yes... this shit is SEXXXXY! 1smoking.gif
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post #45 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post
 

anyone seen any syntax for this yet? 

 

Get the book from iBooks, linked above

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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post #46 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

There's no way anyone that gives a shit about software could feel "udnerwhelming" by this keynote. It was the single most impressive event, that I've EVER seen from Apple when it comes to iOS/OSX features, API, and development tools. Not only did they address pretty much every major complaint in some ways, they added features that I didnt even imagine, but make perfect fucking practical sense. Apple has clearly been busy, and all the additions and changes are thoughtful, well considered features that are incredibly practical and useful. I was literally cheering at so many points. Cant WAIT for the new OSX and iOS- the phone/message integration and "continuity" features will be used by me literally all the time. Hardware announcements will come later, but this exceeded my expectations in terms of software. Well done Apple- you haven't lost your touch, and are firing on all cylinders. iOS development was already far, far ahead of Android dev, but these improvements widen the gap infinitely more. 
Yep. I don't even care that no hardware was announced today. This was all about software, all about platforms. The fall will be all about hardware.
post #47 of 213
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post
This announcement ALONE cemented current developers to the OSX/iOS platform more than any other device and user statistics... 

 

I loved the reactions on the faces of the older members of the crowd as Swift was being described. That, to me, is the biggest indication that Apple has done something huge here.

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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #48 of 213

That hardly makes it portable.  If you are doing iOS development you WILL be using Apple libraries which are not available on other platforms.   So even if you abstract all of the Apple calls to an interface layer and then convert them to the target platform still not a trivial matter even if you are using C/C++.

post #49 of 213
What an earth moving keynote! New OS X with new UI and new features (awesome!), new iOS 8 with HealthKit, HomeKit, new features and UI improvements (incredible!), even more integration between OS X and iOS (amazing!), brand new Xcode programming language for writing code (earth moving and game changing!!! -mark my words!). What a keynote! Apple is leading the world for developing great software! There is no doubt about it! No one can refute the fact that, today, there is no place for developers like Apple.

I can't wait for the fall to see what Apple will release to complement and implement all the unbelievable software integration and development they have been able to achieve! This fall's product announcement is going to be the climax and the consummation of Eddy Cue's words:

"Later this year, we've got the best product pipeline that I've seen in my 25 years at Apple."

I can truly say, without equivocation, no company can achieve what Apple achieves the way that Apple achieves it. Not even close.
post #50 of 213

"Can't innovate anymore, my ass" ™

post #51 of 213
Without the baggage of C ... How true it is!!!!
A lot of C folks in the crowd. Oooooooooooooooo!!!
The fact that we are still using C and C derived languages shows how the state of programming has stagnated for 30 years or more!
post #52 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Danger View Post
 

That hardly makes it portable.  If you are doing iOS development you WILL be using Apple libraries which are not available on other platforms.   So even if you abstract all of the Apple calls to an interface layer and then convert them to the target platform still not a trivial matter even if you are using C/C++.

This already happens (though I don't have personal experience as I don't do game dev).  The game engine is in C/C++ but the various platforms UI etc are usually done with platform specific calls.  Metal should be accessible through the major game engines so you won't have to directly code Metal when using those engines but will get the benefit from it.

post #53 of 213
swift syntax looks like java and python combined
i wish they keep the oo syntax from objective c its cleaner there
the link on wikipedia article for swift lets you download the book
continuity feature is the star answering phone on my mac cool another step of seamless integration
post #54 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisell View Post
 

"Can't innovate anymore, my ass" ™

Beat me to it!  I was planning on saying that on a few posts but hit "submit" before I remembered I wanted to say it :)

 

touché

post #55 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezhik View Post

Oooh, very exciting, can't wait to try this. I tried to get into iOS development, but just couldn't wrap my head around Obj-C

Same here. I'm in IT and a digital forensics consultant, but I could never get my head around programming logic. Those guys are too smart for me.
post #56 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

THIS is my out of "left field" and "it will blow your mind" prediction!

THIS is how how Apple has decided to blow past Microsoft and Google (Samsung): ground-breaking new tools based on performance and efficiency = SPEED!

Considering that the 64bit A7 already blows the doors off of anything running Android, Apple just bought themselves the equivalent of 2 years in speed improvements to ALL iOS devices.

Now THAT's impressive!

The only other tech co. working on cleaning up legacy code is Microsoft. Hats off to them for that, regardless of the sly TC remark regarding Win8 acceptance.

Apple just turned up the heat to boiling under the asses of every other companies tool developers: "well guess were not going to be shipping that tool box"... 1smoking.gif

It's not that mind blowing.

 

This has been Apple's M.O. since day one (well maybe day 200 after the first iPhone's were determined to be a bit pricey).   Deliver more _functional_ speed at lower cost than your competitor.  This isn't a spec war... it's how it feels in your hands.

 

Speed is the ultimate measure of User Experience.  Or in other words. being able to do more things in the same unit of time, makes the experience richer/safer/secure-er.   If you have a lot of great functions, but only can deliver 40% of them because of 'system limits'  that means you've not got to 'say no' to 3 out of every 5 'features'.   ("we'll take out bounds checking, as it slows down performance... what, that leaves us open to hacking... well... leave it out anyway.... we need to increase the keystroke response time")

 

Apple is the only computer maker that designs it's chips, it's OS, it's cloud services, it's point of sale (your device) services, and now its languages (ObjC was it's own language before NeXT/Apple pretty much took it over).   It's not Swift, or 64 bit, or A7, or iTMS, or LiquidMetal, or Beats...  It's all of them.  Synergy.   

 

The problem with your Microsoft reference is that their 'legacy code' is across several divisions... At Apple... It's all in one division.  What is 'legacy' to one division may be 'stable code' to another division who is milking profits from the lack of attention.     And the problem with Microsoft is that it has hundreds, if not thousands of HW configs to support.   Apple... what... 10 mobile  (4 phones, 4 iPads, 2 appleTVs?), and what 20 or so 'legacy' Macs?   Microsoft can't get out from under its Legacy Code problem until it changes it's business model, and organizational makeup.

post #57 of 213
Damn!!!!!
post #58 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I loved the reactions on the faces of the older members of the crowd as Swift was being described. That, to me, is the biggest indication that Apple has done something huge here.

It was the intake of breath and applause at the mention of "closures", "type inference" and "multiple return types" that really shows that developers have been wanting this and it is going to be massive...
post #59 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yup - this was definitely underwhelming. No new 6" iPhone.

/s

Bring on the disappointment posts!

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post #60 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Amazing. No one expected this.

Nobody expects the unexpected. Time will tell, but usually new programming languages are met with extremely hostile developers at first, and lack of cross-platform viability (eg to Windows or Android) will ultimately prevent a language from muscling out whatever is dominant, no matter how crappy the dominant language is (eg Java and C++ are crappy for reasons owing to their unnecessary complexity and inflexibility between runtimes using the same language. This is why all third party libraries use C bindings and not something else.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I was turned onto a video by GatorGuy a few years (years?) ago. Can’t find the link. Maybe he can. I have the video downloaded, but uploading it again would be unnecessary.

EDIT: FOUND IT.



This guy’s giving a talk about software development and the power that could be afforded to developers if the coding software gave them realtime feedback. It blew me away, because that’s exactly what is needed! Being able to see where elements on the screen are going, changing them on the fly, building the world based on the realtime feedback, scrubbing through the execution, etc.

And Swift+Xcode is much exactly that. 

I am absolutely thrilled by this. Can’t wait to see it in action.

This is what Apple has over Windows and Android. The mentally inadequate scream that features are being “copied” (ignoring that they’re not), while refusing to acknowledge that they don’t even have anything remotely like what Apple has on the back end.


From the icon, I expected the language to be called PeregrineSwift works, too.

The thing is, this isn't the first time such a thing has happened. Unity (which uses C#) or Flash (which is in the same script family as Javascript) do this already, but these are extremely bloated runtimes for doing simple things. The overhead for Unity almost makes it unusable on mobile devices, and indeed I was having to restart the game every hour or so because it would freeze, or the OS would kill it. Flash used to have a lightweight runtime, but damn near everything developed for it is not multi-threaded aware, and will burn a CPU core even when idle. So Apple coming up with this... if it allows for the flexibility... could work. But being locked to iOS/OSX will ultimately harm it. Apple needs a "build portable intermediate" target that can then complete the compiling with CLANG with anything it can target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezhik View Post

Oooh, very exciting, can't wait to try this. I tried to get into iOS development, but just couldn't wrap my head around Obj-C

OBJC actually is more usable than C++ because it's a superset of C and is much lighter than C++. The problem for most new developers is that they don't know C to begin with. I found C rather easy to learn, but when presented with C++ or OBJC, I get a headache. I like the data organizing aspects both languages have, but I hate the syntax of C++ because, like in Javascript... everyone thinks it's too hard so they write frameworks or other helper libraries that just make it harder to understand instead of just not using features they don't need. You see this in Javascript a lot, someone will want to write something very simple, but they don't know how to do it in Javascript, so they pull some jQuery example off stackexchange ( http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/45176/when-is-use-jquery-not-a-valid-answer-to-a-javascript-question ), so several hundred kilobytes of code is loaded to do what might have taken 4 lines in Javascript.

This is what you see happen whenever you see the word "Framework" or "Factory" with C++ or OBJC. To give an example, when someone needs to load an image, they will most likely use a library for anything more complicated than BMP/TGA. But the latest thing to do for GPU efficiency is to design a sprite/texture atlas. This is because it's a lot easier to change the texture coordinates than it is to unload and load new textures for animated sequences. So if you decide to use a framework's version of this, you are now stuck using that framework for everything (because few libraries and frameworks talk to each other, they assume you are using only itself) involving images otherwise you will duplicate code (I've seen one game have three different JPEG saving libraries because their video capture codec was MJPG, their still capture was JPEG's jpeg library, and their internet leaderboard library had yet another JPEG library because it resized images) that wastes memory and processing time.

Before one gets invested in a library or framework, do your own research to see if the complexity of what you want to do necessitates the library in the first place.
Edited by Misa - 6/2/14 at 1:15pm
post #61 of 213

This pretty much blew my mind. Apple definitely did this big!!!! I am thrilled and excited to play with swift and the new OSX and iOS 8 this weekend.

post #62 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post
 

Yup - this was definitely underwhelming. No new 6" iPhone.

 

/s

You keep forgetting that everyone on Wall Street is waiting for an iWatch that will sell in the tens of millions of units at $300 a pop.  Did you see any iWatch?  No.  Did you see any new AppleTV?  No.  So it makes sense that investors quickly sold off their shares because they can't make any money from Apple this week.  Wall Street wanted to see hardware, not software at the developers conference.  Software simply doesn't make investors salivate when it comes to Apple.

post #63 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadbag View Post
 

 

Read between the lines with today's keynote and you can see all sorts of new HW coming down the pipeline in the next few months to few years. New AppleTV is just one of them.  Lots of cool new features that are cool, but could be much cooler and seemed to be designed for new HW in the future.

 

Nintendo, and to a slightly lesser extent, Xbox (MS) and Playstation (Sony) just had a massive shot fired across their bow.

 

As did all the Android flunkies.

+1.

 

Agreed. I see a whole slew of HW.  And a whole slew of stuff that won't happen, specifically, Apple will not in the short term build a LTE chip into a laptop (tethering/hotspotting will become second nature).

 

The cloud stuff piques my interest in Cloud syncing to local intermediate devices (write through caching on a Airport/TimeCapsule/AppleTV).  Depending on a 3rd party (my ISP) for a great experience is begging for trouble.   Especially with homeKit, why not have a 'home automation' platform (replace my mac Mini running Indigo), that also caches all those apps (why download 8 copies of an iOS upgrade for my 3 iPads and 5 phones?),as well as pictures, videos, etc.   Same with Health Kit.

post #64 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by eckergus View Post

What an earth moving keynote! New OS X with new UI and new features (awesome!), new iOS 8 with HealthKit, HomeKit, new features and UI improvements (incredible!), even more integration between OS X and iOS (amazing!), brand new Xcode programming language for writing code (earth moving and game changing!!! -mark my words!). What a keynote! Apple is leading the world for developing great software! There is no doubt about it! No one can refute the fact that, today, there is no place for developers like Apple.

I can't wait for the fall to see what Apple will release to complement and implement all the unbelievable software integration and development they have been able to achieve! This fall's product announcement is going to be the climax and the consummation of Eddy Cue's words:

"Later this year, we've got the best product pipeline that I've seen in my 25 years at Apple."

I can truly say, without equivocation, no company can achieve what Apple achieves the way that Apple achieves it. Not even close.
On a recent issue of. MacBreak Weekly Rene Ritchie said that Craig Federighi is more of an engineering nerd whereas Scott Forstall was more interested in UI design. I think it was a brilliant decision by Cook to give software design to Ive. This allows Federighi to focus more on the engineering side and let Ive and the software designers focus on the UI design. I liked what I saw from Yosemite. It brings the Mac and iOS closer together but it wasn't just slapping an iOS 7 coat of paint on OSX. What we saw this WWDC to me is as big and as important as the introduction of the App Store. 4,000 new API's. That blows my mind.
post #65 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

You keep forgetting that everyone on Wall Street is waiting for an iWatch that will sell in the tens of millions of units at $300 a pop.  Did you see any iWatch?  No.  Did you see any new AppleTV?  No.  So it makes sense that investors quickly sold off their shares because they can't make any money from Apple this week.  Wall Street wanted to see hardware, not software at the developers conference.  Software simply doesn't make investors salivate when it comes to Apple.
Well the stupid analysts on CNBC can all **** off. They're the idiots if they think all Apple is, is a maker of shiny gadgets. 1rolleyes.gif
post #66 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtamesis View Post

Crap. I just finished learning Objective C and started writing an app. Now I have to learn Swift when the teaching materials come out and rewrite my app using it. Just did a quick look at the language guide and some of it reminds me of Javascript.


You Came TOO LATE, HA, Ha !
post #67 of 213

Oh god it looks ugly. This is depressing me. I'm sure it's going to be a great language, but I'm really not in the mood to say goodbye to Objective C ! 

Yeah sure, I can still use Objective C, but in reality, you have to stay on top in this game and move on. 

 

Meh

post #68 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post
 

 

Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.  :lol:

 

Yes, in time the real reason for the existence of Swift will become apparent, Swift is easy the biggest long range news out of the many announced at this year's conference.

post #69 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post
 

(replace my mac Mini running Indigo)

 

Hopefully someone will come up with (if not already there) a way to interface existing INSTEON (replace with your device protocol/standard of choice) devices with this new stuff.  I am not really wanting to replace my existing INSTEON stuff, meager that it is (a few lights, a garage door opener, a sprinkler controller).

post #70 of 213

PREDICTION:

 

Samsung unveils Swipe, a brand new programming language that resembles Swift

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post #71 of 213
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


On a recent issue of. MacBreak Weekly Rene Ritchie said that Craig Federighi is more of an engineering nerd whereas Scott Forstall was more interested in UI design. I think it was a brilliant decision by Cook to give software design to Ive. This allows Federighi to focus more on the engineering side and let Ive and the software designers focus on the UI design. I liked what I saw from Yosemite. It brings the Mac and iOS closer together but it wasn't just slapping an iOS 7 coat of paint on OSX. What we saw this WWDC to me is as big and as important as the introduction of the App Store. 4,000 new API's. That blows my mind.

 

The only real misstep was hiring a discount guy from Dixon's department stores as head of retail, everyone looked more relaxed on stage.

post #72 of 213
I learnt a long time ago that it's always a bad idea to use custom non-standard APIs or languages, unless you encapsulate all the nonportable stuff into insulated code. In other words, I won't use swift nor metal, unless I really need it for some feature, and it such case I'll encapsulate it in a clearly isolated module which doesn't affect the C/C++/OpenGL/OpenCL code.

It's a bad direction IMHO. They're copying Google by moving to nonstandard tech. When the Mac Pro was announced last year, they said "you know you should be using OpenCL". That's the right direction, helping establish an standard like OpenCL by doing machines which shine in OpenCL.

The move from OpenGL to metal is the opposite of that. They shouldn't blame OpenGL has overhead, but develop the fastest and best OpenGL implementation in the planet.

They're abandoning the right direction they had these last years.
post #73 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post
 

PREDICTION:

 

Samsung unveils Swipe, a brand new programming language that resembles Swift

 

Along with S-Code I would imagine.

post #74 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yup - this was definitely underwhelming. No new 6" iPhone.

/s


It is a software developers conference , hence the name WWDC. in Sept the hardware announcement will come to time both software development and the US/Chinese holiday seasons.
post #75 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

You keep forgetting that everyone on Wall Street is waiting for an iWatch that will sell in the tens of millions of units at $300 a pop.  Did you see any iWatch?  No.  Did you see any new AppleTV?  No. 

 

10M x $300 = $3B.

 

Assume 33% manufacturing, advertising, and sales costs.

 

Yup, Apple should announce an iWatch, because new profit of $2B is going to really make the company shine!  And if they do a little bit better they might have enough money to buy something super-cool, like Beats.  

 

/s.

 

My point is, them analysts you revere are thinking too small.

post #76 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

There's no way anyone that gives a shit about software could feel "udnerwhelming" by this keynote. It was the single most impressive event, that I've EVER seen from Apple when it comes to iOS/OSX features, API, and development tools.

I agree. I've watched a lot of keynotes but the sheer volume of changes to iOS and OS X announced today was just staggering.

This will be a banner year for Apple platforms.
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post #77 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

It's not that mind blowing.

This has been Apple's M.O. since day one (well maybe day 200 after the first iPhone's were determined to be a bit pricey).   Deliver more _functional_ speed at lower cost than your competitor.  This isn't a spec war... it's how it feels in your hands.

Speed is the ultimate measure of User Experience.  Or in other words. being able to do more things in the same unit of time, makes the experience richer/safer/secure-er.   If you have a lot of great functions, but only can deliver 40% of them because of 'system limits'  that means you've not got to 'say no' to 3 out of every 5 'features'.   ("we'll take out bounds checking, as it slows down performance... what, that leaves us open to hacking... well... leave it out anyway.... we need to increase the keystroke response time")

Apple is the only computer maker that designs it's chips, it's OS, it's cloud services, it's point of sale (your device) services, and now its languages (ObjC was it's own language before NeXT/Apple pretty much took it over).   It's not Swift, or 64 bit, or A7, or iTMS, or LiquidMetal, or Beats...  It's all of them.  Synergy.   

The problem with your Microsoft reference is that their 'legacy code' is across several divisions... At Apple... It's all in one division.  What is 'legacy' to one division may be 'stable code' to another division who is milking profits from the lack of attention.     And the problem with Microsoft is that it has hundreds, if not thousands of HW configs to support.   Apple... what... 10 mobile  (4 phones, 4 iPads, 2 appleTVs?), and what 20 or so 'legacy' Macs?   Microsoft can't get out from under its Legacy Code problem until it changes it's business model, and organizational makeup.

I agree with everything you said…although I think MS should at least be given credit for trying considering exactly what you stated above regarding what they're up against.

In general I'm for any software dev that decides the legacy baggage needs to put to the trash. And as painful as it is for the users to learn new tricks, they need to stick to what they have and shut up, or join the march to better ways of working with constructive criticism working towards a better product. Wow is that ever a utopian wish, buh? 1smoking.gif
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post #78 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Danger View Post
 

That hardly makes it portable.  If you are doing iOS development you WILL be using Apple libraries which are not available on other platforms.   So even if you abstract all of the Apple calls to an interface layer and then convert them to the target platform still not a trivial matter even if you are using C/C++.

 

Despite what some many people have said, at some point in the near future Apple will move away Intel cpu's, most of the young programers and small to medium sized companies will jump into Swift with both feet, hitting the ground running, in short if you don't use Apple programing tools you could find yourself on the outside looking in. After more than 20 years with Obj-C, Swift isn't here for nothing. All the software just keeps moving forward at Apple and within the OS X and iOS ecosystems in a very positive way. 

post #79 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

PREDICTION:

Samsung unveils Swipe, a brand new programming language that resembles Swift



Don't you mean S-Wipe?

It's best said aloud.
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post #80 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

You keep forgetting that everyone on Wall Street is waiting for an iWatch that will sell in the tens of millions of units at $300 a pop.  Did you see any iWatch?  No.  Did you see any new AppleTV?  No.  So it makes sense that investors quickly sold off their shares because they can't make any money from Apple this week.  Wall Street wanted to see hardware, not software at the developers conference.  Software simply doesn't make investors salivate when it comes to Apple.

 

Noone gives a shit about your tiresome, predictable rants anymore. Yes, sales will be sold, and some will be bought. "Investors quickly sold off their shares"? That's why Apple stock is only down 0.6%, much less than the average downswing after keynotes? This is the results of all investors selling their shares? Apple is going to fucking run their company and make decisions based on the possibility of some short term stock gains at the expense of long term success. Will you EVER understand that? The announcements made today are much more significant profound than an iWatch. An iWatch will come, but noone who isn't a complete moron expected hardware announcements today. Future hardware will be released based on this new software. The work Apple is doing now is laying the foundation of so many things, and only utterly bling people like you have a hard time seeing that. The least you can do is keep your shitty rants out of WWDC threads. I wrongly assumed you'd shut up once you stopped calling for Cook's head, but obviously that didn't happen. 

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