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First look: Apple's new aesthetic for OS X Yosemite - Page 2

post #41 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

Just how many Computer Science Departments at US universities (or reputable international ones) will actually offer accredited classes in Swift as part of a CS or Engineering degree curriculum? Yeah, I seriously doubt it.

 

If the CS/CIS departments have done their jobs, the students will have learned how to program and develop software (which are not the same thing) and should be able to easily adapt to new languages to solve the task at hand.  The difference between education and training.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

Reply
post #42 of 146
Just remember that the resulting color of the translucency depends on the color of the background underneath. People who say they like the new effect may not say so if the desktop background changes. Even a nice looking desktop background may not combine well with transparent white window elements and the extreme blur effect that is being used. The blurring also creates large splotches of gray, pink and turquoise on the screen.
Edited by Haggar - 6/3/14 at 11:18am
post #43 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

I wish Apple would finally end this Sturm und Drang aesthetic metamorphosis and get on with revamping major parts of the OS. What I keep hoping for is another Leopard- Snow Leopard release cycle, catching - and surpassing - competing operating systems in core technologies. Instead, Apple seems to be focussing on window dressing and extensions, and less on major components that need updating or overhaul, like the woeful file system, kludgy Finder, and awkward networking. Losing focus, Apple.

Amazing. One year they focus on the unpinning without much change to the GUI and people like you claim Apple hasn't done anything with Mac OS X, but then the next release when they do revamp its look and people like you then complain that Apple isn't updating anything else.

I don't know what WWDC you were watching but I saw an amazing 2 hour presentation that devoted plenty of time to go over many Mac OS X changes, including increasing their already substantial lead in integrating the iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad and Mac into a more unified and seamless system. There is a long way to go (based on what science fiction tells me) but they are so far ahead of the competition that it's not even funny.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #44 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

 

Services? Yawn. They have been around for quite a while in OS X and still most people don't use them. Interoperability with iOS devices and OS X? Yeah, OK, I think they have been calling that convergence for a couple decades now. Still, I don't see that much to get excited over, yet.

 

Let's read what John Siracusa writes about Yosemite in a few months - then we'll have the final verdict.

 

Can't create your own intelligent assessment? People who rely on John to discuss the vast changes of OS X really strike me as inept with its technologies.

post #45 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Moving the Spotlight window seems really strange to me. The click area with the magnifying glass is still top right, right? So they've made the window pop up in a completely different place to where you click, which seems like bad UI to me. I realise you can keyboard launch and browse Spotlight too, but I don't really see that as an excuse, there's no new functionality in Spotlight that demands it be in the centre of the screen.

To be clear, the improved Spotlight seems great and I look forward to using it, I just question the wisdom in moving the window.

Bad UI? Click an app in the dock. It opens in the centre of the screen. Click the notification centre icon. It opens a panel to the left. Everything does what it's designed to do. Having the new Spotlight interface open in the top right would be worse UI. Its not just a menu anymore. It's almost an app. Yet it's not. It's completely new. Just something to get used to. Certainly not 'bad UI'.
post #46 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

Apple is losing focus of the core functionalities of its desktop OS. Despite the recent release of the MacPro, OS X continues to be subsumed by iOS in many (every?) way(s). iCloud will replace local storage, eventually, and the Mac will devolve to just another iDevice if these trends continue.

 

I, for one, don't want that to happen.

 

Boiling frog alert.

 

Wow.

 

If you think the demise of the desktop PC is something that should never happen and needs to be prevented, you're lost in the 1980s or something.  I expect that 5-10 years from now it's very possible that most household will have no desktop PCs and no laptops and they will be more productive and connected and happy than they are now.  Technology advances and yesterday's keynote convinced me (and many others here) that Apple really gets it.  They introduced dozens of new strategies and technologies that are all forward looking.  To suggest that they have lost their vision or are hung up on UI eye candy today is pure ignorance.  It is a great time to be a developer and we will see some amazing stuff in the coming months as people get on board Apple's vision.

 

As to your earlier comment about Swift.  Give me a break.  I downloaded the book last night and it's exactly what they described--all the power of Objective-C without the C baggage.  Anyone who learned Objective-C (and millions of people did, just do develop for iOS) will have no trouble picking up Swift.  And new people to the iOS development community will have a much easier time learning Swift instead of Objective-C.

post #47 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstexas View Post

Ivy is GREATLY overrated as a UI designer.


Could not agree more. He is an excellent product designer, but terrible at UI. I HATED iOS7, but Yosemite is beyond words. It is HORRIBLE. It looks amateurish and cartoonish. Unfortunately, Ive is in a position now that he can do anything he wants, and no one is going to stop him.

post #48 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post

I vehemently disagree with the choice of typography on these OS redesigns. This is something that Steve Jobs would NOT have done, but more importantly it's something that's not easy to read, which is why he would not have done it. Ive knows good graphics a mile off, but mistakes text for another graphical element without acknowledging the basic reality that people have to read the stuff.

Lucida Grande was thought about, carefully. Probably the only case of type selection that is similarly high profile over the past decade is the new Federal Highway Administration font, which is similarly extremely legible, even if not necessarily the prettiest from a graphical standpoint, and because of that legibility it is very easy on the eyes. Helvetica Neue is a display font, not a text font -- it's meant for advertising and for graphical effect. It flunks in usability.
What are you talking about?

The same font has been used since 2007! The first iPhone used Helvetica, and it never changed. What the hell do you mean Steve Jobs wouldn't have done it? HE DID DO IT!

Helvetica is one of the most common fonts in the world. I don't know how you could suggest it 'flunks' usability. Tell that to the hundreds of millions of iOS users who, according to you, must have difficulty using their devices because of the font.

Also, you've confused the term display with 'headline' and 'text' with 'body.' In any case, Helvetica was designed in the 50s to be as legible as possible at all type sizes.

The use of Lucida Grande is not a 'high profile type case.' You just made that up, because it's ridiculous.

Don't just say things that you made up because you think they could be true. Do some research.
post #49 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post

So far I see a hot mess. I'm sure that will improve over time, but I really expected this would be a little further along by now.


Agreed. It looks like a rush job. I'm hoping they'll hear some of the negative feedback and make some alterations. I won't hold my breath. I like the features, but this UI is just god awful.

post #50 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Moving the Spotlight window seems really strange to me. The click area with the magnifying glass is still top right, right? So they've made the window pop up in a completely different place to where you click, which seems like bad UI to me. I realise you can keyboard launch and browse Spotlight too, but I don't really see that as an excuse, there's no new functionality in Spotlight that demands it be in the centre of the screen.

To be clear, the improved Spotlight seems great and I look forward to using it, I just question the wisdom in moving the window.


I was thinking the same thing. If anything, I'd think it could be a preference. You could have the new window, but still have it drop down from the menu bar. Otherwise, it is bad UI design. Maybe you could have an option to use the standard search or clicking an icon in the drop down would give the expanded separate window search.

post #51 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panu View Post

Why is Apple continuing with the only UI they have ever produced that is controversial? When have Mac users ever complained of eye pain and unreadability before? This is all unprecedented.
 

 

Why? Because Jony Ive felt like it. F**K users. They get whatever he gives them.

 

In fact, given his minimal tendencies of late, I'm surprised he actually left any colors, or any icons. At some point, it will just be a blank white screen. Users will have to guess where to mouse over to do something and then items will appear. Don't you know, it's all about simplicity and cleanliness. You can't have objects dirtying things up.

 

Ugh.

post #52 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

 

I have my copy of Mac OS X and iOS Internals right here, just in case.

No you don't

 

 

Don't you want to not get banned before September and October- when you can really troll?

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #53 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post


Bad UI? Click an app in the dock. It opens in the centre of the screen. Click the notification centre icon. It opens a panel to the left. Everything does what it's designed to do. Having the new Spotlight interface open in the top right would be worse UI. Its not just a menu anymore. It's almost an app. Yet it's not. It's completely new. Just something to get used to. Certainly not 'bad UI'.


I respectfully disagree. Historically, ALL items in the menu bar are designed to drop down. Notification center is a weird anomoly. If the new Spotlight is really an app, fine. Put it in the dock like the Finder icon. Then, its behavior would make sense.

post #54 of 146
Thank you Apple. Apparently we didn't scream loud enough over these silly flat icons in iOS7, so you are giving us another chance to rage on with Yosemite.
post #55 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by initiator View Post
 


Could not agree more. He is an excellent product designer, but terrible at UI. I HATED iOS7, but Yosemite is beyond words. It is HORRIBLE. It looks amateurish and cartoonish. Unfortunately, Ive is in a position now that he can do anything he wants, and no one is going to stop him.


Better watch your language and not criticize Apple or its employees. You might make some around here think you're anti-Apple and getting paid by some big conglomerate to post here. Then they'll call you names and tell you to shut the F up. Btw, I agree with you 100%!!

If you want to call me names, tell me to shut up and f off...you will be ignored. I WILL NOT BE BULLIED!!
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If you want to call me names, tell me to shut up and f off...you will be ignored. I WILL NOT BE BULLIED!!
Reply
post #56 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by initiator View Post


I was thinking the same thing. If anything, I'd think it could be a preference. You could have the new window, but still have it drop down from the menu bar. Otherwise, it is bad UI design. Maybe you could have an option to use the standard search or clicking an icon in the drop down would give the expanded separate window search.
1) Adding a preference is ridiculous when no one would use it.
2) Adding an extra click is very bad UX. There is no need to add an extra click when you could present the same information in the first place. This is just basic UX stuff.

I fail to see how the current implementation is 'bad UI', or that your suggestions improve on it rather than make it worse.
post #57 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualZone View Post
 


Better watch your language and not criticize Apple or its employees. You might make some around here think you're anti-Apple and getting paid by some big conglomerate to post here. Then they'll call you names and tell you to shut the F up. Btw, I agree with you 100%!!


It's exactly the same as with Windows 8 when people criticize it too.

If you want to call me names, tell me to shut up and f off...you will be ignored. I WILL NOT BE BULLIED!!
Reply
If you want to call me names, tell me to shut up and f off...you will be ignored. I WILL NOT BE BULLIED!!
Reply
post #58 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by initiator View Post


I respectfully disagree. Historically, ALL items in the menu bar are designed to drop down. Notification center is a weird anomoly. If the new Spotlight is really an app, fine. Put it in the dock like the Finder icon. Then, its behavior would make sense.

Well, hang on. If notification centre is allowed to be a 'weird anomaly' why can't Spotlight also? The spotlight icon can't simply be moved, as users expect it there. The window it produces also works so much better in the centre.

If it was me I would CONSIDER adding an animation on the window so that it scales out of the icon. Or change the look of the icon. There are plenty of ways to refine the interface. Suggesting that it should drop down because that's what all menu icons do, is not only an ill-conceived suggestion, but it's actually NOT what all menu icons do - notification centre being one of them.
post #59 of 146

Well, we can put our reactions on http://www.apple.com/feedback 

 

It helps to vent. And who knows, maybe someone will read it and care.

post #60 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Deezy View Post

Thank you Apple. Apparently we didn't scream loud enough over these silly flat icons in iOS7, so you are giving us another chance to rage on with Yosemite.
The icons in Yosemite aren't 'flat'.
post #61 of 146

If hardware design were physics, Jony Ive would be Einstein. If UI design were opera, Jony Ive would be a lounge singer. 

post #62 of 146

OS X 10.10 Yosemite Developer Preview System Requirements:

  • iMac (mid-2007 or newer)
  • MacBook Air (late 2008 or newer)
  • MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer)
  • Mac Mini (Early 2009 or newer)
  • MacBook Pro (Mid/Late 2007 or newer)
  • Mac Pro (Early 2008 or newer)
  • Xserve (Early 2009)



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ios-8-os-x-1010-yosemite-system-requirements-2014-6#ixzz33bZ64Miw

 

--------------

 

 

YES!!  Early 2008 MacBook Pro will still be going strong.     :smokey:

post #63 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
 

 

Can't create your own intelligent assessment? People who rely on John to discuss the vast changes of OS X really strike me as inept with its technologies.

 

Actually, I already have started forming my assessment - maybe you missed my previous posts. But no, I haven't written a 25-page analysis, and probably won't any time soon. Please post a link to your review when it's ready; I'm certain many of your loyal followers will want to read it, as you are clearly on par with recognised authorities (like John). Who knows, maybe AppleInsider or Ars or even MacWorld will offer to pay you for your insights.

post #64 of 146
I would agree with that sentiment as well. Legible typography is a must in this digital format especially in UI design with menus, buttons etc...I am not a fan of the transparency in iOS7, so I turn it off for legibility, hopefully Apple will do the same with Yosemite and give us that option of 'no' transparency.
post #65 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

I would agree with that sentiment as well. Legible typography is a must in this digital format especially in UI design with menus, buttons etc...I am not a fan of the transparency in iOS7, so I turn it off for legibility, hopefully Apple will do the same with Yosemite and give us that option of 'no' transparency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post

I vehemently disagree with the choice of typography on these OS redesigns. This is something that Steve Jobs would NOT have done, but more importantly it's something that's not easy to read, which is why he would not have done it. Ive knows good graphics a mile off, but mistakes text for another graphical element without acknowledging the basic reality that people have to read the stuff.

Lucida Grande was thought about, carefully. Probably the only case of type selection that is similarly high profile over the past decade is the new Federal Highway Administration font, which is similarly extremely legible, even if not necessarily the prettiest from a graphical standpoint, and because of that legibility it is very easy on the eyes. Helvetica Neue is a display font, not a text font -- it's meant for advertising and for graphical effect. It flunks in usability.

I would agree with that sentiment as well. Legible typography is a must in this digital format especially in UI design with menus, buttons etc...I am not a fan of the transparency in iOS7, so I turn it off for legibility, hopefully Apple will do the same with Yosemite and give us that option of 'no' transparency.
post #66 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post


I would agree with that sentiment as well. Legible typography is a must in this digital format especially in UI design with menus, buttons etc...I am not a fan of the transparency in iOS7, so I turn it off for legibility, hopefully Apple will do the same with Yosemite and give us that option of 'no' transparency.
Could I ask exactly which sentiment you are agreeing with?
post #67 of 146
One design mistake drags next mistakes...
At least I could tell that I knew times when Apple software was really attractive. Pity these times were quite short.
post #68 of 146
There is a thing that Johnny Ive and his team are getting totally wrong. After the iOS7 experience with all this flatness concept, all I have to say is that there was and still is a need for a clear separation between UI elements and the content. In iOS7 I am constantly wondering "is this text a button or part of the content?" and "is this a UI bar or part of this site" and so on. There is a reason why OS X had all this 3-dimensionality that is always helping the user have a sense of where he is and what is he doing. Aqua, as a graphic language, with all its refinements and corrections, was, and still is so successful in helping the user get the things done and finding his way easily.

There is now a tendency to make things that used to be perfectly simple and functional more complicated. iTunes is a perfect example. I see totally functional elements to disappear (example: the icon bouncing in the dock when launching an app - it's called visual feedback! ) and totally useless eye-candy elements as sidebar translucency finding their way to the UI%u2026 Didn't we drop the translucent menu bar in Leopard for a reason? I believe that we don't need a UI that reflects mainly the love of its maker for typography and CMYK colors and so on. We need functionality and we had plenty of it!

And there's one more thing: vivid and polarised colors, contrast, translucency, lots of plain white space, all of them add up to a visual fatigue, if you are spending ours working on the computer. And visual design has seen better days: ok, maybe the trash can is beautiful, but look at the folders design and color! The whole thing has to be more subtle%u2026 As it is, and as it is going to be, is just a show-off. I agree that Lion's Address book and iCal were ugly, but their "modernized" equivalents are harder in the eye, I would avoid working with colors and contrast that is invading in my eyes and not helping me just doing my job. I think Snow Leopard was an example of beauty, funcionality and balance that should be studied in depth.
post #69 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bao Babus View Post

One design mistake drags next mistakes...
At least I could tell that I knew times when Apple software was really attractive. Pity these times were quite short.
Which particular times do you mean?
post #70 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post


Which particular times do you mean?

Basically from Snow Leopard and up to iOS 7 design was introduced.

Now it all slowly turns in the direction, pointed by Windows 8 - more primitive and tasteless...

post #71 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post
 

 

Wow.

 

If you think the demise of the desktop PC is something that should never happen and needs to be prevented, you're lost in the 1980s or something.  I expect that 5-10 years from now it's very possible that most household will have no desktop PCs and no laptops and they will be more productive and connected and happy than they are now.  Technology advances and yesterday's keynote convinced me (and many others here) that Apple really gets it.  They introduced dozens of new strategies and technologies that are all forward looking.  To suggest that they have lost their vision or are hung up on UI eye candy today is pure ignorance.  It is a great time to be a developer and we will see some amazing stuff in the coming months as people get on board Apple's vision.

 

The demise of the desktop PC, if it ever happens, will be no more preventable than extinction or natural selection. But I think nature (or the markets) will have the final say, not some pundit or self-proclaimed expert. For my (Mac) use cases, it isn't conceivable that iOS and related devices could even meet any of my current or near-term requirements. Although some users have settled for (and may be happy with) iPads or other tablets exclusively, they probably never needed a desktop (or notebook) computer in the first instance.

 

As for Apple's broader vision, who is arguing with you? I think Apple has great vision. I just think they have neglected very important components of OS X for far too long, like the Finder, the file system, networking and security. Other OSs (Slurpy, are you paying attention?) have made better progress on file systems (FreeBSD, Solaris, Linux, and even Windows), while HFS has stagnated. As for the Finder, it's still the best, but that doesn't mean it hasn't passed its sell-by date. Many users and developers have been chanting FTFF for over a decade. I really believe that only Apple can replace the Finder with something better - I just would like them to do that before they waste any more time playing with flat icons or translucent windows (which some would affectionately call "eye candy"). In another five years, maybe J Ive will have retired, and Apple will change the whole aesthetic back again. :lol: Security is still a concern, despite OS X's intrinsic advantages over Windows (which isn't saying much).

post #72 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by initiator View Post
 


Could not agree more. He is an excellent product designer, but terrible at UI. I HATED iOS7, but Yosemite is beyond words. It is HORRIBLE. It looks amateurish and cartoonish. Unfortunately, Ive is in a position now that he can do anything he wants, and no one is going to stop him.

Absolutely agree.

Do they really believe new OS X design looks better?

post #73 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bao Babus View Post

Absolutely agree.
Do they really believe new OS X design looks better?
No. They really believe it looks worse. Which is why they spent millions of dollars developing it.

Use your brain to collect logical thoughts before writing them here and making me feel sick.
post #74 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post


No. They really believe it looks worse. Which is why they spent millions of dollars developing it.

Use your brain to collect logical thoughts before writing them here and making me feel sick.

Well, they do their job - spend "millions of dollars" to make whatever they did.

I make my job - just ignore their job if I don't like it.

And please take care of yourself - Internet forums may affect your health if you easily feel sick when reading what you don't like...

post #75 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bao Babus View Post

And please take care of yourself - Internet forums may affect your health if you easily feel sick when reading what you don't like...

Says the guy who sounds like he was about to puke because he disagrees with the massive improvements over the skeumorphic designs of previous veraions of iOS and Mac OS X.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #76 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

For a "cynic" you sure sound like the marketing department at Apple. I do want to ask you one question:

 

Just how many Computer Science Departments at US universities (or reputable international ones) will actually offer accredited classes in Swift as part of a CS or Engineering degree curriculum? Yeah, I seriously doubt it.

 

thats one of the dumbest things ive ever read on AI. as if university courses were the metric of platform worth! dunno about you but my com sci dept didnt teach C#, they taught C++. because the basic ideas of computer science are what you learn, not the implementation of a new language on the market. it takes years to change curriculums... 

post #77 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

Let's read what John Siracusa writes about Yosemite in a few months - then we'll have the final verdict.

 

yes, because forming your own opinions is hard.

post #78 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panu View Post

Apple does not use Mail internally, they use Outlook, which means they use Outlook Exchange running on Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2.
I joked with an Apple Store employee that Apple uses PCs with Windows in Cupertino. I expected her to laugh dismissively. Instead, she looked worried and said, quietly, "I hope not."

 

...that is the second dumbest thing ive ever read on AI. so because you asked a retail employee what corporate uses, and she answered in a flat tone because she was undoubtedly tired of your conversation and wanted to end it sooner than later, you presumed that to be...worry? and then surmised they run windows/outlook? yyyyeah.....

post #79 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

Despite the recent release of the MacPro, OS X continues to be subsumed by iOS in many (every?) way(s). iCloud will replace local storage, eventually, and the Mac will devolve to just another iDevice if these trends continue.

 

newsflash -- apple makes the vast majority of their income from ios and idevices, not os x and macs. of course they focus on it.

 

and no, icloud will not replace local storage. storage gets cheaper and faster all the time. please see history.

post #80 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post

This is something that Steve Jobs would NOT have done,

 

oh lord, still? repeat after me:

 

"I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT STEVE JOBS WOULD DO."

"I NEVER EVEN MET THE MAN, AND I DON'T KNOW HIM AT ALL."

"I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT STEVE JOBS WOULD DO...."

 

seriously. get over yourself, youre not a ghost talker. 

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