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First look: Apple's new aesthetic for OS X Yosemite - Page 3

post #81 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by initiator View Post

Why? Because Jony Ive felt like it. F**K users. They get whatever he gives them.

In fact, given his minimal tendencies of late, I'm surprised he actually left any colors, or any icons. At some point, it will just be a blank white screen. Users will have to guess where to mouse over to do something and then items will appear. Don't you know, it's all about simplicity and cleanliness. You can't have objects dirtying things up.

Ugh.

Perhaps the real reason is that relatively few people actually dislike it.
post #82 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post

oh lord, still? repeat after me:

"I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT STEVE JOBS WOULD DO."
"I NEVER EVEN MET THE MAN, AND I DON'T KNOW HIM AT ALL."
"I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT STEVE JOBS WOULD DO...."

seriously. get over yourself, youre not a ghost talker. 

I wish people would show a little more consideration and put the tired "Steve wouldn't have done this" meme at the start of the post. Then folk would know straight away that everything that follows is drivel.
post #83 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondRoca View Post
 

One day (one day) we'll get a new Finder. It's good to see Apple paying attention to window dressings though. 

 

likely not as important to customers as you think it is. im a software dev, im often running VMs of my dev environments, and ive spent zero time thinking about the finder. my work is my work. not worrying about the finder, or the file system, or icons. i imagine it's even less important to the average people who comprise the paying mac customer base. they arent computer scientists and they dont care either.

post #84 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bao Babus View Post

Well, they do their job - spend "millions of dollars" to make whatever they did.

I make my job - just ignore their job if I don't like it.
And please take care of yourself - Internet forums may affect your health if you easily feel sick when reading what you don't like...
I don't understand what you're saying in relation to what your job has to do with 'their' job.

I didn't say I felt sick because I didn't like it. I felt sick because it wasn't logical. And I didn't feel sick physically. I felt sick mentally, as in repulsed.

To reiterate, what kind of a spastic question is 'Do you think they REALLY liked the new look?' If you want to have an opinion, at least put it into a cohesive argument instead of writing random words down and hoping they'll end up meaning something.
post #85 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post
 

 

...that is the second dumbest thing ive ever read on AI. so because you asked a retail employee what corporate uses, and she answered in a flat tone because she was undoubtedly tired of your conversation and wanted to end it sooner than later, you presumed that to be...worry? and then surmised they run windows/outlook? yyyyeah.....

Since you were there, you can tell that she was tired of the conversation because she continued it for quite some time after that joke. Whatever corporate uses, the stores use. There are several ways to verify that they use Outlook. First, there was an optical disk on the genius bar labeled "Store Use Only" that was not supposed to be out of the back room. Second, an Apple employee strongly implied it when we were talking on the phone. Third, there are little problems in Mail that wouldn't exist if Apple were using it. It doesn't surprise me, because Apple's web site isn't even running on OS X.

post #86 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondRoca View Post
 

One day (one day) we'll get a new Finder. It's good to see Apple paying attention to window dressings though. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post
 

 

likely not as important to customers as you think it is. im a software dev, im often running VMs of my dev environments, and ive spent zero time thinking about the finder. my work is my work. not worrying about the finder, or the file system, or icons. i imagine it's even less important to the average people who comprise the paying mac customer base. they arent computer scientists and they dont care either.

 

I think you're second sentence nullified your first sentence. End users are different from developers, even though devs will swear they know how customers use software. Developers also believe they know what features and UI enhancements customers want, over and above what the rest of R&D understands. I run VMs with dev environments too.

 

All users can benefit from a more modern Finder, not just  "computer scientists".

post #87 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post

Bad UI? Click an app in the dock. It opens in the centre of the screen. Click the notification centre icon. It opens a panel to the left. Everything does what it's designed to do. Having the new Spotlight interface open in the top right would be worse UI. Its not just a menu anymore. It's almost an app. Yet it's not. It's completely new. Just something to get used to. Certainly not 'bad UI'.
I don't really agree that Spotlight is an app, it's a function that you dip quickly into and then close straight away when you're done. It's more widget-like than app-like. Even if you were right, if Spotlight is an app proper then it should be in the dock, not the menu bar. Menu bar items by and large open up menus where you click them.

Notification Centre opens a panel on the right, close to where you click.

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post #88 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I don't really agree that Spotlight is an app, it's a function that you dip quickly into and then close straight away when you're done. It's more widget-like than app-like. Even if you were right, if Spotlight is an app proper then it should be in the dock, not the menu bar. Menu bar items by and large open up menus where you click them.

Notification Centre opens a panel on the right, close to where you click.

Based your definition Time Machine also isn't an app because it's in the Menu Bar but not in the Dock. The .app file is under Applications but that doesn't ever propagate in the Dock; when it's called it does something unique, like Spotlight. Alfred, the app that looks very much like the new Spotlight, also gets called the same way and doesn't live in your Dock and yet it's very much an app.

Furthermore, you can go into /System/Library/CoreServices/ to find Spotlight.app.

Personally, I would refer Spotlight as a systemwide service but that's just a specific way or referring to that app.

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post #89 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

I don't know, you sound pretty self-righteous to me.


No, just one post so far. But you are definitely leading the way now....


Actually, a few others have explicitly or implicitly agreed with me. Maybe you should go back and read the other posts in the thread.


I'm fairly certain that you are getting emotional and all worked up.


No, not true. But you're on a roll.


I personally think you might want to take a more sober look at your own comments.


No, I haven't. On a scale of 1-10 as far as Apple-bashing goes, I think my comments don't even register. But you are obviously very thin-skinned.

As for whether my posts make me a disgusting human, well, I hope you get help. Soon. 

More ad Hominum attacks. Still no answer to the question...
post #90 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post

Still no answer to the question...

He has no interest in engaging in a real conversation.

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post #91 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

I wish Apple would finally end this Sturm und Drang aesthetic metamorphosis and get on with revamping major parts of the OS. What I keep hoping for is another Leopard- Snow Leopard release cycle, catching - and surpassing - competing operating systems in core technologies. Instead, Apple seems to be focussing on window dressing and extensions, and less on major components that need updating or overhaul, like the woeful file system, kludgy Finder, and awkward networking. Losing focus, Apple.

 

Mavericks had huge under-the-hood changes, and they are set to continue in Yosemite. Apple are set to enrich the coding language of the entire operating system, and have added a raft of new API's. The UI changes are the least of what they are doing.

AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

I've used macs since 1985 when I typed up my first research paper. Never used anything else never wanted to.
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post #92 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm glad that we can at least agree that the Android-using masses are definitely in need of some better personal hygiene.

Hey!!! I resemble that remark 1wink.gif
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post #93 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

ad hominem. Third declension noun, accusative case, singular (number).

I was responding to the personal attacks against me, which you are only interested in making.

Mea culpa. I suck at spelling.

That aside, I am in no way interested in personal attacks. Which is why, rather than making them, I have asked you to stop and answer the legitimate question.
post #94 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post


Mea culpa. I suck at spelling.

That aside, I am in no way interested in personal attacks. Which is why, rather than making them, I have asked you to stop and answer the legitimate question.

 

Well, there were so many insults to wade through, I honestly don't recall anything of value. What question, exactly? And while you're at it, maybe you should address the issues I have highlighted more than once regarding the core components of OS X - like HFS, the Finder, security and networking, to name a few?

post #95 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

Well, there were so many insults to wade through, I honestly don't recall anything of value. What question, exactly? And while you're at it, maybe you should address the issues I have highlighted more than once regarding the core components of OS X - like HFS, the Finder, security and networking, to name a few?

The question was: if you feel OSX is doing a poor job at core OS tasks, could you point out an OS that is doing a better job? Or, failing that, what specifically needs to be improved?
post #96 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

The demise of the desktop PC, if it ever happens, will be no more preventable than extinction or natural selection. But I think nature (or the markets) will have the final say, not some pundit or self-proclaimed expert. For my (Mac) use cases, it isn't conceivable that iOS and related devices could even meet any of my current or near-term requirements. Although some users have settled for (and may be happy with) iPads or other tablets exclusively, they probably never needed a desktop (or notebook) computer in the first instance.

Given that the revenue generated by Mac sales isn't even a drop in the ocean compared with iOS devices and further that many new Mac owners are buying them because they love their iOS devices, I don't think it's fair to claim that iOS like features are being forced on us by some self proclaimed expert. Rather it looks more like Apple is responding to the market. The fact that iOS can't do everything OSX can do is exactly why Apple, unlike Microsoft, has made a conscious decision to keep them separate.
post #97 of 146

I thought highly of Sir Ive up until iOS7's interface. I still don't understand his rabidly anti-skeuomorphic take on design. I hate the childish colors and overly-simplistic icon designs. It's a visual dumbing down, not a helpful simplification. Ive doesn't appear to have any grasp of the concept that typography has to be readable—that's its purpose outside of display work—not just to be "pretty." OS X seems to be turning more and more toward show-offy eye candy. (Please explain to me how transparency of windows helps improve the user experience, increases one's ease of use of the OS or increases productivity.) IMHO, OS X is being infected by the poor interface concepts in iOS. It's becoming bland, despite the garish colors.

 

Someone mentioned that inconsistencies in the OS X interface will be addressed in time by Apple. I would hope so. But I would point out a  longstanding interface inconsistency in OS X: why do icons appear in color pretty much everywhere except for Finder window sidebars? I've resorted to a third-party hack to restore those icons to color. I find the color element important visually when rapidly selecting an icon. The interface team doesn't even seem to recognize this glitch. Weird.

 

Sir Ive would choke, but I'm at the point that I'd welcome being to skin the entire interface. I used to think that Sir would be a natural eventual successor to the helm of the Good Ship Apple, but now it looks to me like he's fallen into the design-for-design's sake school of thought. Can no one at Apple challenge and perhaps override his decisions? If not, it speaks to a culture of yes men inside and outside of the design team at Apple. And I would argue that that's not a good thing.

post #98 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post


The question was: if you feel OSX is doing a poor job at core OS tasks, could you point out an OS that is doing a better job? Or, failing that, what specifically needs to be improved?

 

You are misrepresenting and exaggerating what I have said ("you feel OSX is doing a poor job at core OS tasks"), but I'm happy to repeat what has been posted previously. Look at this post:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

 

The demise of the desktop PC, if it ever happens, will be no more preventable than extinction or natural selection. But I think nature (or the markets) will have the final say, not some pundit or self-proclaimed expert. For my (Mac) use cases, it isn't conceivable that iOS and related devices could even meet any of my current or near-term requirements. Although some users have settled for (and may be happy with) iPads or other tablets exclusively, they probably never needed a desktop (or notebook) computer in the first instance.

 

As for Apple's broader vision, who is arguing with you? I think Apple has great vision. I just think they have neglected very important components of OS X for far too long, like the Finder, the file system, networking and security. Other OSs (Slurpy, are you paying attention?) have made better progress on file systems (FreeBSD, Solaris, Linux, and even Windows), while HFS has stagnated. As for the Finder, it's still the best, but that doesn't mean it hasn't passed its sell-by date. Many users and developers have been chanting FTFF for over a decade. I really believe that only Apple can replace the Finder with something better - I just would like them to do that before they waste any more time playing with flat icons or translucent windows (which some would affectionately call "eye candy"). In another five years, maybe J Ive will have retired, and Apple will change the whole aesthetic back again. :lol: Security is still a concern, despite OS X's intrinsic advantages over Windows (which isn't saying much). All these points are well-known and very reasonably articulated outside the Mac-zealot (sorry) universe.

 

Now, was that really worth getting all worked up over? :rolleyes: 

 

So, to answer your question:

 

file systems: ZFS and forked variants are way better than HFS - see FreeBSD, Solaris; btrfs - Linux; ReFS - Windows Server - maybe desktop (soon).

 

Finder: still the best for the masses, but it still leaves so much to be desired. See above. Not hard to find well-seasoned, respectable opinions on the Finder's shortcomings ....

 

Networking:  in heterogenous environments, the Windows and Unix ecosystems are (far) better. No one takes OS X Server seriously anymore – even Apple – so the domain for this problem is considerably smaller in Mac-land.

 

Security: see above. Generally, Mac OS X is far better for end users than most OSs; still, some Apple technologies like Safari have been vulnerable from time to time. Apple has also been somewhat lackadaisical at patching recent, high-profile vulnerabilities. See also comment related to Server above.

 

Browsers: Safari has lagged Chrome and Firefox in features and security, arguably, and memory leaks have been a persistent problem. It has improved a lot since version 7, but it still has issues.

post #99 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

So, to answer your question:

file systems: ZFS and forked variants are way better than HFS - see FreeBSD, Solaris; btrfs - Linux; ReFS - Windows Server - maybe desktop (soon).

Finder: still the best for the masses, but it still leaves so much to be desired. See above. Not hard to find well-seasoned, respectable opinions on the Finder's shortcomings ....

Networking:  in heterogenous environments, the Windows and Unix ecosystems are (far) better. No one takes OS X Server seriously anymore – even Apple – so the domain for this problem is considerably smaller in Mac-land.

Security: see above. Generally, Mac OS X is far better for end users than most OSs; still, some Apple technologies like Safari have been vulnerable from time to time. Apple has also been somewhat lackadaisical at patching recent, high-profile vulnerabilities. See also comment related to Server above.

Browsers: Safari has lagged Chrome and Firefox in features and security, arguably, and memory leaks have been a persistent problem. It has improved a lot since version 7, but it still has issues.

Wow! I haven't seen that much BS around here in a long time. An impressive load so you may want to rehydrate after that dump. You're one step from claiming that Apple still uses oldhat materials like metal which man has been working with for over 2,000 years, while their competitors are much more modern since they use the recent, 20th century invention of plastic. 1rolleyes.gif

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post #100 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post


Given that the revenue generated by Mac sales isn't even a drop in the ocean compared with iOS devices and further that many new Mac owners are buying them because they love their iOS devices, I don't think it's fair to claim that iOS like features are being forced on us by some self proclaimed expert. Rather it looks more like Apple is responding to the market. The fact that iOS can't do everything OSX can do is exactly why Apple, unlike Microsoft, has made a conscious decision to keep them separate.

 

When Windows was selling hand over fist and was considered invincible, did (does) that make it suck any less? 

 

The article is about OS X. iOS is another topic altogether. 

 

Not a (self-)proclaimed expert any more than you are, mate. I presented well-formed opinions, and was greeted by numerous attacks from the fanboi choir with absolutely no intelligent reasoning or response to the issues I have raised. Some things never change among the Apple faithful. However, my opinions are based not only on my own extensive, personal and business use, but also on supporting observations and opinions from other critical minds. If you visit(ed) other sites besides AppleInsider from time to time, you might actually find some interesting opinions counter to your own ....

post #101 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

 

The article is about OS X. iOS is another topic altogether. 

 

Not a (self-)proclaimed expert any more than you are, mate. I presented well-formed opinions, and was greeted by numerous attacks from the fanboi choir with absolutely no intelligent reasoning or response to the issues I have raised. Some things never change among the Apple faithful. However, my opinions are based not only on my own extensive, personal and business use, but also on supporting observations and opinions from other critical minds. If you visit(ed) other sites besides AppleInsider from time to time, you might actually find some interesting opinions counter to your own ....

You complained that, in your opinion, OSX was being subsumed by iOS. I'm just saying that this process that you are lamenting might be due to the very same unpreventable market forces that you cite. With this in mind, I find it hard to agree with your assessment that Apple is losing focus. On the contrary, they are doing exactly what they need to do to survive.

post #102 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post
 

I wish Apple would finally end this Sturm und Drang aesthetic metamorphosis and get on with revamping major parts of the OS. What I keep hoping for is another Leopard- Snow Leopard release cycle, catching - and surpassing - competing operating systems in core technologies. Instead, Apple seems to be focussing on window dressing and extensions, and less on major components that need updating or overhaul, like the woeful file system, kludgy Finder, and awkward networking. Losing focus, Apple.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post
 

You complained that, in your opinion, OSX was being subsumed by iOS. I'm just saying that this process that you are lamenting might be due to the very same unpreventable market forces that you cite. With this in mind, I find it hard to agree with your assessment that Apple is losing focus. On the contrary, they are doing exactly what they need to do to survive.

 

See my original post above.

 

Your comments:

 

1. re: OS X subsumed by iOS - unpreventable market forces?

 

Levelling and homogenizing OS X and iOS technologies aren't necessarily a concern for me. It could be larger market forces at work, or the deliberate actions of Apple's braintrust, or both, or more. Who really knows? What I do know is that I still need desktop, workstation and server operating systems. The features Apple keeps adding to OS X are all fine and well, but could it just FTFF already? And replace HFS or at least offer a better alternative? Apple started to do both these things in the past, but stopped short or killed the project for various reasons. But now that Apple is so wealthy, large and powerful, I think it no longer has any excuses. Again, hardcore Unix infrastructure and Intel iron brought the critical mass of IT users back to Mac OS X to ensure its short term survivability, and iOS have added many consumers to that as well. I think Apple needs to truly get back to the Mac and address these long-running concerns.

 

2. re: losing focus – you don't agree – they are doing what the need to survive.

 

I think Apple is safely way beyond the 'beleaguered' survival stage at this point. Again, my question is, what prevents them from addressing the major core OS issues at the same time? It seems to me, the answer is that they don't consider it (as) important, and by extension, OS X is being dumbed down (streamlined, euphemistically), and that a robust and bullet-proof file system is no longer a priority. Ditto for the Finder - why bother if Cocoa Touch is the way forward for a combined interface? I am certainly not the only one to come to this conclusion.

 

Regardless, these issues I raised are well-founded and vocalised elsewhere, and certainly no justification for the vitriol I have been subjected to in this thread.

post #103 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

Now I see how you racked up those 16,813 posts (over 500 per day on AppleInsider alone!) in a little over 2.5 years.
Let me be of assistance. I'll take your numbers.

31 months = 930 days
16818 / 930 = 18 posts per day.

18 is not equal to 500.

MathS is used across Britain, Australia and NZ and various other countries. Not that the use of the word indicates the level of competency (or maybe it does?)
post #104 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post


I think Apple is safely way beyond the 'beleaguered' survival stage at this point. Again, my question is, what prevents them from addressing the major core OS issues at the same time? It seems to me, the answer is that they don't consider it (as) important, and by extension, OS X is being dumbed down (streamlined, euphemistically), and that a robust and bullet-proof file system is no longer a priority. Ditto for the Finder - why bother if Cocoa Touch is the way forward for a combined interface? I am certainly not the only one to come to this conclusion.

Regardless, these issues I raised are well-founded and vocalised elsewhere, and certainly no justification for the vitriol I have been subjected to in this thread.

No tech company is beyond the survival stage. As soon as they start thinking they are, someone else will come along and blow them out of the water.

I totally agree that all the things you mention aren't a priority for Apple. Where we disagree is whether or not these things *should* be a priority. To be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about. These file systems are totally alien to me and, I would guess, at least 99% of people using OSX. That being the case, working on these things isn't going to help Apple sell Macs. Apple isn't losing focus, they just aren't focusing on what you want them to.

You are being treated poorly not because of the issues you raised, but because of your attitude. We get a lot of trolls here that show up and accuse Apple of losing its touch. The pattern has repeated itself over and over. The somewhat rough welcome did have some opportunity to explain your position, but instead you got offended and started throwing insults. I've been on this site a long time (I read a whole lot more than I post) and I can tell you that you have managed to piss off some people who are normally very fair minded and extremely knowledgable (along with, I'll admit, some people who are less so). As long as you continue the attitude of being on a crusade against the Apple fanatics, you will continue to be ridiculed, regardless of how well formed your opinions are, until you are eventually banned.
post #105 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

You are misrepresenting and exaggerating what I have said ("you feel OSX is doing a poor job at core OS tasks"), but I'm happy to repeat what has been posted previously. Look at this post:


So, to answer your question:

file systems: ZFS and forked variants are way better than HFS - see FreeBSD, Solaris; btrfs - Linux; ReFS - Windows Server - maybe desktop (soon).

Finder: still the best for the masses, but it still leaves so much to be desired. See above. Not hard to find well-seasoned, respectable opinions on the Finder's shortcomings ....

Networking:  in heterogenous environments, the Windows and Unix ecosystems are (far) better. No one takes OS X Server seriously anymore – even Apple – so the domain for this problem is considerably smaller in Mac-land.

Security: see above. Generally, Mac OS X is far better for end users than most OSs; still, some Apple technologies like Safari have been vulnerable from time to time. Apple has also been somewhat lackadaisical at patching recent, high-profile vulnerabilities. See also comment related to Server above.

Browsers: Safari has lagged Chrome and Firefox in features and security, arguably, and memory leaks have been a persistent problem. It has improved a lot since version 7, but it still has issues.

So not so bad then. Just bad against the potential perfect world of non existant OSes ( networking and file system aside) rather than the competition. And Safari is not an OS release. It can continue to add security, as it should, between cycles. They have sandboxed tabs and windows into their own processes since mavericks and fixed numerous security issues. It keeps getting updated.

Good news to white background haters. Yosemite has a dark mode. iOS 8 has a greyscale mode.
Both have API and settings to largely change the size of the font across the system. All mentioned in the state of the union ( where they advised devs to be careful about transparency and readability.). Although not mentioned I am pretty sure that sidebar transparency can be turned off just as the menu bar transparency can be.
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post #106 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Based your definition Time Machine also isn't an app because it's in the Menu Bar but not in the Dock.
Time Machine used to be in the dock, to my knowledge it still can be, and I think it still should be by default. If you click it in the menu bar iirc you get a menu, and from there you can open an app window. If you click it in the sock you go straight to the app window. That's the conceptual difference - menu bar goes to menu, or a little bit of widget-ish small UI in a pop up in the top right corner; dock goes to app window.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The .app file is under Applications
I'm not going to dispute what the package is, I'm talking about the difference in concept between things that live in the menu bar and things that live in the dock, and how they behave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

but that doesn't ever propagate in the Dock; when it's called it does something unique, like Spotlight. Alfred, the app that looks very much like the new Spotlight, also gets called the same way and doesn't live in your Dock and yet it's very much an app.
Alfred also does the wrong thing, in my opinion.

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post #107 of 146
Tbh I think they should just make the Spotlight app the default window when you click Finder.

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post #108 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Tbh I think they should just make the Spotlight app the default window when you click Finder.
Then how would one access Finder? What a ridiculous thing to say. Now you're just trolling.
post #109 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

 

The demise of the desktop PC, if it ever happens, will be no more preventable than extinction or natural selection. But I think nature (or the markets) will have the final say, not some pundit or self-proclaimed expert. For my (Mac) use cases, it isn't conceivable that iOS and related devices could even meet any of my current or near-term requirements. Although some users have settled for (and may be happy with) iPads or other tablets exclusively, they probably never needed a desktop (or notebook) computer in the first instance. 

 

Well, although I agree generally, no one can predict what the future in personal computing will exactly be. Perhaps, when miniaturization, storage and performance will advance even more, all we will need as a computer will be the equivalent in volume of a matches box, that can be taken away everywhere and just be connected to some display and input devices in order to load a full-fledged operating system. But for now, I also understand that many users settle for tablets (almost) exclusively because this is exactly what they needed in the first place. I believe this is a non-negligible percentage of the general population. Apparently Apple saw the potential and acted accordingly.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Rogers View Post

 

I think Apple has great vision. I just think they have neglected very important components of OS X for far too long, like the Finder, the file system, networking and security.

 

The Finder is such an old story. I don't see any rational explanation for this neglect. Perhaps it has its roots in the NeXTSTEP origin of Mac OS X, although there were some nice features that never made it in Mac OS X. It will be a subject of study for the technology historians of the future.

 

But can you elaborate on the security aspect? It is true that in a few cases in the past Apple has been slow in issuing some security updates, but that was it (according to my knowledge).

post #110 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post


Then how would one access Finder? What a ridiculous thing to say. Now you're just trolling.
 

Do you have no imagination?  They could do many things to better integrate them.  You already have access to a Spotlight search from Finder, I'm just talking about bringing the Spotlight search interface more to the forefront, either as a splash screen with a "browse" option to get into the normal Finder window, or (my preference) a more prominent search area of the banner that you're ready to type into straight away and access the new rich Spotlight results with a better results pane.

 

The point being, if Spotlight is a menu bar widget, make it a menu bar widget.  If it's a full app then make it a full app.   Alternatively, avoid the UI issue and integrate it with an app that provides similar functionality - the Finder.

 

 

 

If having an opinion makes me a troll around here I'm happy to be one.  In my opinion throwing around accusation of trolling with gay abandon is far more trollish than anything I've said.

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post #111 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post
These file systems are totally alien to me and, I would guess, at least 99% of people using OSX. That being the case, working on these things isn't going to help Apple sell Macs.

 

I think the file system can be a great selling point today. It depends on the features. Other file systems (and from what I remember that was the case of ZFS that died suddenly while it was ported to the Mac) can ensure a much higher level of data integrity, bringing other nice features as well. Of course this does not eliminate the need for backups, but securing the user's data in the best possible way should be of prime priority.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post

Apple isn't losing focus, they just aren't focusing on what you want them to.

 

Indeed. Apple seems more focused than ever these days. I just don't like the new focus either but I am not going to fuss about it.

post #112 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post

Then how would one access Finder? What a ridiculous thing to say. Now you're just trolling.


Please guys, stop attacking and calling names other members of the forum because they say something different. This place used to be a very nice forum in the past. Let's make an effort to keep it polite and civilized. It is easy.

post #113 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Overall, OS X Yosemite sits in an uncanny valley between its more detailed heritage and the spartan adornment of iOS under Jony Ive.

I think it looks like a dog's breakfast too. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

This is not particularly surprising, given the huge amount of baggage OS X carries and the monumental task of rebuilding the entire user experience of two flagship operating systems back to back, but the Apple human interface group has a long road ahead.

If you watch the "Adapting Your App to the New UI of OS X Yosemite" talk, it sounds like this is not a work in progress, but pretty much the finished product. They even explain the principles behind why they made it that way. But you would think something based on principles would look more consistent.

post #114 of 146
I hope there is a setting to turn translucency off. W7 came with it here at work and it was beyond distracting having other things show through while you are trying to read text. I'm not sure exactly how this is supposed to be helpful to a user...
post #115 of 146

I'm late to this thread but I'll throw my 2 cents in.

just on the surface...seeing the keynote and not trying the beta yet, I have to say i think they didn't take it far enough.

There are many visual changes that i welcome but I feel like they could have taken it much further.  Plus, there are changes that I don't think I like as much.

In general I like that it's going back to the one-UI look between iOS and OS X.  It makes a lot of sense.  It's a good start but they could have done better?  What the heck as Ive and his design team been doing for a year?  The groundwork was already laid with iOS 7.  I sure hope it's in the hardware aspect they've been working so hard on for a year...at least then i'd give this UI overhaul a pass.

 

Here's a couple "for instances":

Safari, Apple must have some reason to truncate the favorites into a quick look from the search bar, but I don't like that.  I have a large and very organized collection of favorites in many folders and sub-folder all organized by type and subsequently alphabetized that I've been collecting over the many years of web surfing.  I like the favorites bar and I hope that is a toggle that I can resurrect.

Additionally, I would really...really like to see the rubber-band drag to refresh and didn't get it.  (same goes for mail, messages and email as well).  here's hoping that it's there or some beta testers out there can drop some hints to Apple Devs.

 

App icons: I like that they are getting closer to some visual connection between iOS and OS X but some of the icons are largely unchanged and just more of a caricature of what they once were; closer to iOS look but still not uniform enough.  I'd really wish the messages icon between the two platforms was the same color.  Same goes for others.  In the AI screen-caps, the iTunes icon is still the old one but on Apple's website it's the same color as iOS.  Weird.  There still seems to be no uniformity between icons.  Are they going to be all rectangular?  Round?  Free-form?  is there any internal logic as to why some are one shape and others are different?  What about the coloring?  Is there any logic there as to what apps are a certain color and others are different?  perhaps by type of App?  These are still things I wish for to gain more visual clarity.

So what is it going to be Apple?  Slanted flatted 3D rectangular shapes?  Circular iCons? Flattened rectangles?  Free-form shapes?  Pick one or give us some logical reason why they are the way they are.

 

Notes & Reminders?  Meh...i didn't like the new iOS 7 look and I don't like the look here either.  Try again Apple.

 

Notification Center:

looks like they just copy&pasted iOS 7 and added widgets.  It's like they wanted to get rid of Dashboard but couldn't think of any better ideas but to toss them in the Notf-center.  Really?  I don't use Notification center as it is and I probably will use the widget even less than if they had just kept them in Dashboard.  I do use Dashboard 100% more than Notf-Center.

My wish list was to bring some clarity back to dashboard.  not redundant apps like calculator and such.  Why not take the Dashboard-like apps from iOS and dump them in there?  (clock, stocks, especially trailers, etc).  Since in iOS they are small screen apps they would be perfect in Dashboard. This sidebar widgets is just lazy design and not intuitive.

What I would have liked to see...if they wanted to do a slide-out sidebar for widgets...don't lump them into the Notif-Center...create one from the left.  You slide out from the right for Notification, from the left for widgets?  That makes a hell of a lot more sense than how it currently is.

 

New Calendar look find...like iOS...but my wish list had the ability to share an entire calendar with someone or create a family calendar...it's been years since Google did this, why not Apple?

 

Messages:

yeah looks like iOS, fine.  But what about adding updating from 3rd party chat history?  I GChat with a friend sometimes on Google, sometimes through OS X.  why if I send a message via google does that not show up in my Messages History?  That's probably a 1% of the install-base problem so whatever.  It'll probably never happen.

SMS in Messages.  Yeah nice feature if you text anyone anymore.

What about opening up Messages to things like feeds and threads.  Make it more social like WeChat or other chat clients?  what about opening Messages to 3rd Parties?  Messages should be the the catch all, just like Mail is for all your 3rd party mail clients.

 

Nothing in the Keynote mentioned improved podcast sync between iOS and OSX.  it's absolutely horrible for me and many others that I know.  I could write a short essay on the numerous ways it sucks so I'll just leave it at that.

 

I hear on a podcasts that the "Green"  button is not only going to be fullscreen and not "maximize"?  Is this correct?  if so, that will piss me off because i do use both features equally and will be pissed if the green maximize has been eliminated for just full-screen.

 

Clickable areas:

I do really really like that they did not go the route of iOS and make colored clickable text. The way they've done is in OS X is exactly how it should have been in iOS.  I've posted numerous times on my reasoning so I can point you in the right direction if you want me to explain.  Just so much more intuitive and easier to follow than colored bolded text.

 

iCloud Docs:

This was a no brainer from forever ago.  But I fear this isn't really an innovation more-so playing catch up to people like Google and Dropbox.  There is literally nothing innovative about iCloud Docs.  It's Dropox in every way.  Comon Apple.  What I would have liked to see is iCloud save all your files.  Like Google Docs.  If I have to remember to put files in iCloud...its a fail because 99 times out of 100 i will have forgotten that one file i wanted.

 

anyway, I could go on but I won't.  Of course there's the caveat that some of what I speak of will be in the public release, but we won't know for months to come.  So it's wait and see.  I hope i've given some ideas to the beta testers out there to suggest to apple.

post #116 of 146

OSX has never looked and worked better. It's just amazing.

post #117 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

I think the file system can be a great selling point today. It depends on the features. Other file systems (and from what I remember that was the case of ZFS that died suddenly while it was ported to the Mac) can ensure a much higher level of data integrity, bringing other nice features as well. Of course this does not eliminate the need for backups, but securing the user's data in the best possible way should be of prime priority.


Indeed. Apple seems more focused than ever these days. I just don't like the new focus either but I am not going to fuss about it.

What features do these new file systems bring to the table? From the content of your post it sounds like they are less likely to corrupt data, but what other features do they have?

When I think of data loss, I think of physical HDD failure. Data corruption, in my mind, is so rare that it's a non issue.
post #118 of 146
Hey is it just me or what...but I would like to have the same features text typing words in iOS that can figure out what you want to type it's so much faster ...in OS X
post #119 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryMagoo View Post

Hey is it just me or what...but I would like to have the same features text typing words in iOS that can figure out what you want to type it's so much faster ...in OS X

They did add autocorrect to OSX a year or two ago, but it's not nearly as robust as the iOS version. Word prediction like they are adding to iOS 8 would be difficult on OSX because I can't see any convenient way to select the words without redesigning the keyboard.
post #120 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by oirudleahcim View Post

I thought highly of Sir Ive up until iOS7's interface. I still don't understand his rabidly anti-skeuomorphic take on design. I hate the childish colors and overly-simplistic icon designs. It's a visual dumbing down, not a helpful simplification. Ive doesn't appear to have any grasp of the concept that typography has to be readable—that's its purpose outside of display work—not just to be "pretty." OS X seems to be turning more and more toward show-offy eye candy. (Please explain to me how transparency of windows helps improve the user experience, increases one's ease of use of the OS or increases productivity.) IMHO, OS X is being infected by the poor interface concepts in iOS. It's becoming bland, despite the garish colors.

Someone mentioned that inconsistencies in the OS X interface will be addressed in time by Apple. I would hope so. But I would point out a  longstanding interface inconsistency in OS X: why do icons appear in color pretty much everywhere except for Finder window sidebars? I've resorted to a third-party hack to restore those icons to color. I find the color element important visually when rapidly selecting an icon. The interface team doesn't even seem to recognize this glitch. Weird.

Sir Ive would choke, but I'm at the point that I'd welcome being to skin the entire interface. I used to think that Sir would be a natural eventual successor to the helm of the Good Ship Apple, but now it looks to me like he's fallen into the design-for-design's sake school of thought. Can no one at Apple challenge and perhaps override his decisions? If not, it speaks to a culture of yes men inside and outside of the design team at Apple. And I would argue that that's not a good thing.

Couldn't agree more. I hope they give us the option to turn that transparency crap off in the System settings. Ive is a great industrial designer, but not so much in the graphic UI dept it seems...granted he may not be actually designing the UI, but is just the influencer/approver in the end.
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