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Is Obama Going to be Impeached?

post #1 of 93
Thread Starter 

Despite Obama's lawlessness, I would have never predicted this was even possible, politically speaking.  But, with the recent prisoner exchange issue, I'm starting to believe there may be enough bipartisan outrage that it may happen.  

 

Top Ranking Dem calls exchange "dangerous precedent"  

 

The President that Richard Nixon Always Wanted to Be

 

Senate Democrats Flip 

 

Time:  Whitehouse Overrode Internal Objections

 

 

As far a I am concerned, there is more of a case for impeachment of this President than any other (except Nixon).  This latest violation of the law was blatant (must notify Congress 30 days before executing such a transfer).  He has also openly changed and violated the law on dozens of occasions (healthcare and immigration are two of the major areas).   Yet, despite the outrage that is now happening on both sides of the aisle, there does not seem to be the political will to go through with it.  Obama still has a number of liberal allies.  Moreover, I think that GOP is not exactly thrilled about impeaching the first black President, whose allies already accuse them of racism for opposing his policies and positions.    

 

As I stated though, this issue may be the tipping point.  The administration's conduct under this President on a host of issues gives ample grounds for impeachment:  

 

1.  Fast and Furious:  Obama's Justice Department deliberately violated gun laws and dozens of other laws in providing weapons to cartel members and drug runners...guns that were lost and directly led to the loss of life of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.  

 

2.  Benghazi:  The President and his team failed to act to try to save Americans, then covered it up for weeks.  The intelligence community never believed the attack was caused by a video, but they continued this lie for weeks afterwards.  Even today, Hillary Clinton's book will claim that Susan Rice used the best info she had (based on CIA assessment) when she went on five Sunday talk shows to claim it was sparked by a video (a claim we know to be absolutely, demonstrably false).  

 

3.  IRS:  There has been Obstruction of Justice at the bare minimum.  Obama's IRS conducted widespread targeting of conservative groups, and admitted it.  Since that time, the administration has tried to portray it as isolated.   The President met with the IRS director dozens of times as this was occurring.  That doesn't exactly scream "plausible deniability."  

 

4.  The VA:  Obama claims that he was unaware of the secret waiting list scandal until he saw it on the news (a claim he earlier made about the IRS).  Here again, we know this is not true.  This is probably more incompetence than criminal conduct on his part, but it's every bit as outrageous.  

 

5.  POW swap:  Obama approved the release of five of the most dangerous terrorists in the world, ones that were previously labeled as people that would almost certainly return to attacking America and her allies.   He did this without notifying Congress, which he is required to do by law (even if he claims otherwise in his signing statement for said law).  worse still, Bergdahl certainly seems to have deserted his unit, indirectly causing the death of at least 6 soldiers looking for him.   Obama and his team overrode the objections of the Pentagon and likely, Homeland Security.   

 

6.  Ignoring statutory deadlines and requirements in the healthcare law:  This one is self-explanatory.  He openly ignored and the law and ordered his subordinates to change it.  

 

7.  Immigration:  Ignored current immigration law and refused to enforce portions of it.  Created new law to allow illegals to stay based on requirements the administration set.  Worse, I am personally aware of the implementation problems that have occurred.  Each illegal immigrant was supposed to be reviewed for approval, which would not be granted had they been a felon, etc.  In many cases, these reviews were rushed and shoddily assembled based on pressure from the White House.  In some cases, they weren't completed at all (I can't tell you how I know that, but I can assure you it is absolutely, unequivocally true).   

 

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months.  I still think impeachment is unlikely, but I also think it's more likely than it was before.  Of course, then we've got to deal with Joe Jeanshorts Dirt Driveway Bare Foot Biden, but that will at least be entertaining.  

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post #2 of 93

I once read a list of at least 20 felonies, misdemeanors, and even treason regarding his behavior personally and that of his administration as a whole.

 

I didn’t spend a lot of time on it, but in looking up a few of the points, I remember them being irreconcilable.

 

The behavior of the president needs to be held to the highest standard of anyone, government or otherwise. Seems like that behavior has been sliding since the ‘90s.

 

Thing is, no impeachment would ever go through, because Senate Democrats wouldn’t listen to their states/constituency*, even if they were screaming for it. A Republican landslide in the Senate would be required, barring more irreconcilable action.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #3 of 93

Americans, and I still consider myself one, should not be afraid to impeach their president if he has broken the law. Not to do so would in fact fairly warrant accusations of racism.

 

I get that Obama has wanted to promote Islam and try and prevent hostility towards Muslims because he grew up with them, but he has failed. People have seen through the white-washing of Islam and the enormous lengths Obama has taken to demonise those critical of it. Americans are going to have to go all out to win back their country to prevent it becoming like so many parts of Europe are now.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #4 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Americans, and I still consider myself one, should not be afraid to impeach their president if he has broken the law. Not to do so would in fact fairly warrant accusations of racism.

 

I get that Obama has wanted to promote Islam and try and prevent hostility towards Muslims because he grew up with them, but he has failed. People have seen through the white-washing of Islam and the enormous lengths Obama has taken to demonise those critical of it. Americans are going to have to go all out to win back their country to prevent it becoming like so many parts of Europe are now.

yup go all out to keep the murder rate up above Europe, health care ranking lower than Europe etc. If you want to go all out to keep those dubious honours fair play
post #5 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


yup go all out to keep the murder rate up above Europe, health care ranking lower than Europe etc. If you want to go all out to keep those dubious honours fair play

I'm talking specifically about the Islamification of Europe.

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #6 of 93

He won't be impeached. As you noted, there isn't the political will and that is due to every action against him instantly being classified as racist.

 

However perhaps the anger will hurt the Democratic Party and their damaged brand will cause them to have significant losses in 2014 and 2016.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


yup go all out to keep the murder rate up above Europe, health care ranking lower than Europe etc. If you want to go all out to keep those dubious honours fair play

I'm talking specifically about the Islamification of Europe.

really, where? Or are you believing the right wing media hype scare stories?
post #8 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post
 

He won't be impeached. As you noted, there isn't the political will and that is due to every action against him instantly being classified as racist.

 

However perhaps the anger will hurt the Democratic Party and their damaged brand will cause them to have significant losses in 2014 and 2016.

 

Graham:  Impeachment if He Does it Again

 

That was quick.  That is the first time I have heard a serious use of the word in public.  I still think you're right...it's unlikely to happen.  Then again, even several top Dems and supporters have condemned his actions.  Feinstein, Panetta, Prof. Turley, etc.   Despite my absolute opposition to his agenda and the fact I think he is the single worst President ever to hold office, I did not want to see the nation go through this.  Impeaching the first black President would divide the nation for decades and leave us even less able to confront our problems.  But, when a President wantonly breaks the law and puts the nation's security at risk, it must be done.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #9 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


yup go all out to keep the murder rate up above Europe, health care ranking lower than Europe etc. If you want to go all out to keep those dubious honours fair play

 

1.  As Hands explained, he was referencing the Islamification of Europe only.  He is absolutely correct. 

 

2.  You should really get to know the person to whom you are speaking.  Calling Hands "rightwing" is laughable.  You'd know that if you spent more than 5 minutes here spouting off on things that you know nothing about.  

 

3.  The murder rate?  Yeah, that's a simple fix.  I mean, we should just ban handguns, right?  Or pass restrictive gun laws?  It's not like it's a complex cultural problem brought on in part by the moral decay and Godlessness started in Europe 100 years ago. 

 

4.  Healthcare ranking.  LOL.   The United States has the best medical care in the world.  The problem we have is that we haven't figured out how to pay for it without a) bankrupting the country and b) destroying the system itself.  The health of the general population isn't simply about the medical system.  Here again, there are many factors such as lifestyle, diet, etc.  Additionally, while there are countries with excellent healthcare in Europe (Sweden, Finland, Norway, et al), they also have had the luxury of not having to provide for their own defense for the past 70 years.  Must be nice.  Don't even get me started on the issues with socialized medicine.  Hint:  Don't get breast cancer in England over the age of 65 and expect to live very long. 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #10 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


really, where? Or are you believing the right wing media hype scare stories?

It would be better to continue this discussion on Islamification in a thread called "Islam Watch", oh no, wait, that was closed...considered spam. Try "Miscellaneous News" instead. That way we won't derail this one. 

We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #11 of 93

Quote from SDW trumpy :

 

"

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post
 

He won't be impeached. As you noted, there isn't the political will and that is due to every action against him instantly being classified as racist.

 

However perhaps the anger will hurt the Democratic Party and their damaged brand will cause them to have significant losses in 2014 and 2016.

 

Graham:  Impeachment if He Does it Again

 

That was quick.  That is the first time I have heard a serious use of the word in public.  I still think you're right...it's unlikely to happen.  Then again, even several top Dems and supporters have condemned his actions.  Feinstein, Panetta, Prof. Turley, etc.   Despite my absolute opposition to his agenda and the fact I think he is the single worst President ever to hold office, I did not want to see the nation go through this.  Impeaching the first black President would divide the nation for decades and leave us even less able to confront our problems.  But, when a President wantonly breaks the law and puts the nation's security at risk, it must be done.  "

 

 

 

You boys and your wishful thinking!:lol:

 

You know damn well what's going to happen in 2016. Big loses for the GOP and Hillary as the next president. But go ahead with your diatribe.

 

Any anger the voters feel against the Democrats and Obama pales in comparison to how they feel about the party of " No " who almost brought the government to a halt from their intransigent nature last year ( and of course that's not the only time ).

 

I guess you haven't learned a thing in all of this time. Oh well.;) 

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #12 of 93
Talk about your wishful thinking. Jimmac your time and reasoning has passed and clearly you cannot see what your generation has done and how it hasn't helped the youth of America. Obama has brought about a result just like Europe with the youth having all the debts, mandates, and are under or unemployed to the tune of nearly 50%.

Plus Hillary Clinton is going to be almost 70 by the next election. No one is going to want to revisit the 90's when a good chunk of the electorate will have been born AFTER them.

Hillary will be trying to convince voters to go back to the good old days of the Clinton years and anyone born the year her husband was first elected would be 24 years old. Talk about not realizing time is going by at all.

Elect me, a quarter century ago you elected my husband!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

....

You boys and your wishful thinking!lol.gif

You know damn well what's going to happen in 2016. Big loses for the GOP and Hillary as the next president. But go ahead with your diatribe.

Any anger the voters feel against the Democrats and Obama pales in comparison to how they feel about the party of " No " who almost brought the government to a halt from their intransigent nature last year ( and of course that's not the only time ).

I guess you haven't learned a thing in all of this time. Oh well.1wink.gif

It was less that 20 years ago that they impeached the last Democratic President. The repercussions of that travesty resulted in the the loss of several high-ranking Republican Congressmen. If they were capable of learning, then you would not hear the word impeach pass their lips for at least a century. However, they are not capable of learning. Thus, here we are.
post #14 of 93
Quote:
 Talk about your wishful thinking. Jimmac your time and reasoning has passed and clearly you cannot see what your generation has done and how it hasn't helped the youth of America. Obama has brought about a result just like Europe with the youth having all the debts, mandates, and are under or unemployed to the tune of nearly 50%.

Plus Hillary Clinton is going to be almost 70 by the next election. No one is going to want to revisit the 90's when a good chunk of the electorate will have been born AFTER them.

Hillary will be trying to convince voters to go back to the good old days of the Clinton years and anyone born the year her husband was first elected would be 24 years old. Talk about not realizing time is going by at all.

Elect me, a quarter century ago you elected my husband!

 

trumptman,


What timeline?

Not only do you not learn you miss quote, don't listen, and don't get it when you're dead wrong about anything. Your arguments are clearly reaching desperately for something and don't hold water.  It's almost like you're mindlessly moving your mouth in a reply that has no substance. A joke.

 

Also you know the GOP have no one that can compete with Hillary ( everyone lese seems to know this but delusional Republicans ). And 70?  Reagan was 69 when he was elected so give me a break!:lol:  You just don't deal in reality.  Plain and simple. I listed no specific timeline. The conservatives are in a slump that will last for as long as they continue to piss off the voters. I'm guessing that will go through the next Presidential election and beyond until they learn to listen.

 If you and SDW are a model that'll be sometime. Fortunately for them not all conservatives are as extreme and polarized as you two are.

 

And remember it's already been proven that you don't even read your own links ( remember? ). Thus the Emperor still has no clothes.;) 


Edited by jimmac - 6/8/14 at 1:11pm
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post #15 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

....

You boys and your wishful thinking!lol.gif

You know damn well what's going to happen in 2016. Big loses for the GOP and Hillary as the next president. But go ahead with your diatribe.

Any anger the voters feel against the Democrats and Obama pales in comparison to how they feel about the party of " No " who almost brought the government to a halt from their intransigent nature last year ( and of course that's not the only time ).

I guess you haven't learned a thing in all of this time. Oh well.1wink.gif

It was less that 20 years ago that they impeached the last Democratic President. The repercussions of that travesty resulted in the the loss of several high-ranking Republican Congressmen. If they were capable of learning, then you would not hear the word impeach pass their lips for at least a century. However, they are not capable of learning. Thus, here we are.


You're probably right. I just have to come back here once and a while to remind myself just how out of touch they are.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #16 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


It was less that 20 years ago that they impeached the last Democratic President. The repercussions of that travesty resulted in the the loss of several high-ranking Republican Congressmen. If they were capable of learning, then you would not hear the word impeach pass their lips for at least a century. However, they are not capable of learning. Thus, here we are.

 

It is untrue to state that the GOP's overreach on impeachment had long-term consequences.  They retained control of the House for another 9 years.  The Senate was basically GOP run for most of that time as well.  They won the Presidential election in 2000 and 2004, as well as a massive midterm victory in 2002.  Get real.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #17 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

 

 

You boys and your wishful thinking!:lol:

 

You know damn well what's going to happen in 2016. Big loses for the GOP and Hillary as the next president. But go ahead with your diatribe.

 

Any anger the voters feel against the Democrats and Obama pales in comparison to how they feel about the party of " No " who almost brought the government to a halt from their intransigent nature last year ( and of course that's not the only time ).

 

I guess you haven't learned a thing in all of this time. Oh well.;) 

 

Wishful thinking?  I just stated that while I consider impeachment absolutely necessary after this President's wanton lawlessness, it's unlikely to happen.  I am noting, however, that the word is starting to be used in public.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you disagree, even though his law breaking is absolutely indisputable.  

 

As for 2016, who knows.  I don't think Hillary is as invincible as you might believe.  It really depends on who the GOP runs.  I know that 2014 is looking like a GOP landslide more and more. 

 

And anger?  I'm not sure where you get the basis for that statement.  It is true that people are displeased with what you've labeled the "party of no."   However, they are far more displeased with the Democrats and Obama, at least according to every poll I've seen.   Finally, the "party of no" is, in my opinion, a Dem talking point.  Obama uses them as punching bags constantly and blames the GOP for literally every problem in his administration and the nation.  Just yesterday he talked about prisoner exchanges under his admin and "previous admins."  The man literally cannot take responsibility for ANYTHING.  He's blamed Republicans for Benghazi, the IRS, the VA, Fast and Furious, Ikraine, and now Bergdahl-gate.   

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #18 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post
 


You're probably right. I just have to come back here once and a while to remind myself just how out of touch they are.

 

LOLOLOL.   Your party's President lives in the smallest bubble since Nixon's last days, and we're out of touch?  The Democrats are going to take a historic shellacking in 2014, and we're out of touch.  The President is pushing job-destroying climate change actions, closing coal plants and making electricity skyrocket all while gas is still almost $4 a gallon....and we're out of touch? 

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post #19 of 93

Those are minor issues SDW.

 

The Obama admin is focused on the big stuff. Like killing the American cheese industry.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #20 of 93
Quote:
 

Wishful thinking?  I just stated that while I consider impeachment absolutely necessary after this President's wanton lawlessness, it's unlikely to happen.  I am noting, however, that the word is starting to be used in public.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you disagree, even though his law breaking is absolutely indisputable.  

 

As for 2016, who knows.  I don't think Hillary is as invincible as you might believe.  It really depends on who the GOP runs.  I know that 2014 is looking like a GOP landslide more and more. 

 

And anger?  I'm not sure where you get the basis for that statement.  It is true that people are displeased with what you've labeled the "party of no."   However, they are far more displeased with the Democrats and Obama, at least according to every poll I've seen.   Finally, the "party of no" is, in my opinion, a Dem talking point.  Obama uses them as punching bags constantly and blames the GOP for literally every problem in his administration and the nation.  Just yesterday he talked about prisoner exchanges under his admin and "previous admins."  The man literally cannot take responsibility for ANYTHING.  He's blamed Republicans for Benghazi, the IRS, the VA, Fast and Furious, Ikraine, and now Bergdahl-gate.   

A primary example of you not really living in reality SDW.

 

Quote:
 However, they are far more displeased with the Democrats and Obama

What a joke!:lol: Uh huh.

 

All I can say is who was right last time you refused to see the light? And who has been incredibly wrong about just everything from WMD to who's going to win an election ( twice! :lol: ). As far as impeachment goes they really don't punish presidents for their actions ( otherwise Nixon would have spent the rest of his days in jail for orchestrating a break in and attempting to illegally influence a presidential election ).;)

 

 Obama doesn't throw the GOP under the bus.  They refuse to see the oncoming bus! Get real!

 

There's currently no one the GOP could run against Hillary and win. No one. And you know it.

 

It's going to be disappointing for you when that landslide goes the other way but I guess you have to see by example ( again ).

 

Oh well.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #21 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post
 

A primary example of you not really living in reality SDW.

 

What a joke!:lol: Uh huh.

 

 

 

I'm just going by the polling data.  I'm not sure why reading a large portion of data and summarizing various sources' conclusions would be amusing.  

 

Quote:
All I can say is who was right last time you refused to see the light?

 

I don't know to what you are referring.  

 

Quote:
And who has been incredibly wrong about just everything from WMD to who's going to win an election ( twice! :lol: ).

 

Wow.  10 years later, and you're still bringing up WMDs in Iraq.  That's impressive.  As for "incredibly wrong about everything," that's a wildly exaggerated and inaccurate claim.   

 

Quote:
As far as impeachment goes they really don't punish presidents for their actions ( otherwise Nixon would have spent the rest of his days in jail for orchestrating a break in and attempting to illegally influence a presidential election ).;)

 

Impeachment has nothing to do with punishing a President.  ;) 

 

Quote:
 Obama doesn't throw the GOP under the bus.  They refuse to see the oncoming bus! Get real!

 

Well, apparently you don't read polls.  Everyone who knows anything about politics knows that the Democrats are going to get shellacked this November.  They will certainly not regain the House, and stand a good chance of losing the Senate.  They are getting so nervous that they are starting to throw Obama under the bus.  http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/i-ve-had-enough-when-democrats-quit-on-obama-20140609

 

Quote:
There's currently no one the GOP could run against Hillary and win. No one. And you know it.

 

I don't know that.  I do know that the polling shows Hillary beating any current would-be contender.  Her hypothetical lead is not insurmountable by any stretch, though.  Before the Bridgegate thing, Christie was leading her or statistically even in a hypothetical match-up.   It really just depends on who runs.  There is no way you can state "there is currently no one the GOP could run" who would beat her.  We simply don't know that.  

 

Quote:

It's going to be disappointing for you when that landslide goes the other way but I guess you have to see by example ( again ).

 

Oh well.

 

Are you predicting a landslide for the Democrats in 2014?  You are literally the only one on the planet who believes that.  

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post #22 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

 

Wow.  10 years later, and you're still bringing up WMDs in Iraq.  That's impressive.  As for "incredibly wrong about everything," that's a wildly exaggerated and inaccurate claim.   

That one still comes up due to the number of lives and the sheer amount of resources consumed by that invasion. As you know the costs of that war will be around for decades or longer in some form whether it's an issue of veterans' benefits or other things. In case you want to bring up the VA since it loosely ties into that, no one apparently cared about veterans getting the shaft for the past 20 or 30 years. The issue there was promised VA reform, at which time the VA started lying about its numbers. The problems go back so much further than that. It would actually be good if it results in any meaningful changes rather than new management and a continuation of its problems.

post #23 of 93

What about when the current White House sent in the IRS to attack its political opponents?

 

Where was the left wing on AI then? "Out of touch", and deliberately so.

 

Forget about having no clothes, much of AI's left wing simply have no principles.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #24 of 93

^^ I know that's a passive aggressive response to my comment (even though I think calling everything left and right is abject nonsense). There's an assumption that it only happened to political opponents. I personally hope they all do it when it comes to anyone trying to circumvent rules that apply to 501c4. Also thanks for the generalized ad hominem. At least I was trying to be civil.

post #25 of 93

It was certainly a followup to your point on Iraq, but I don't believe you made the "out-of-touch" or "Emperor has no clothes" comments.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #26 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

There's an assumption that it only happened to political opponents. I personally hope they all do it when it comes to anyone trying to circumvent rules that apply to 501c4.

 

Almost all of the cases put forward in the media are religious conservative and Tea Party conservative groups.

If anything, cases have been shown that several left wing groups had their paperwork expedited.

 

If you are alleging that some/many/all of those affected were trying to "circumvent rules" with regard to 501c4 status, please provide some proof.

Because everything I've seen so far has shown that this is a routine filing for U.S. non-profits, and few, if any, groups that applied were not eligible.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #27 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

It was certainly a followup to your point on Iraq, but I don't believe you made the "out-of-touch" or "Emperor has no clothes" comments.


In that case I'm sorry I overreacted. I browse through this section at times, but the left/right comments have a tendency to irk me, as I've always viewed that as a horrible way to view other people. It seems like much of how we arrived at this point comes back to people voting against the things they hate most. When it comes to voting for representatives at the state level, I look at their stance on warfare in general as anything but a last resort. I don't really care so much about their party affiliation.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
 

 

Almost all of the cases put forward in the media are religious conservative and Tea Party conservative groups.

If anything, cases have been shown that several left wing groups had their paperwork expedited.

 

If you are alleging that some/many/all of those affected were trying to "circumvent rules" with regard to 501c4 status, please provide some proof.

Because everything I've seen so far has shown that this is a routine filing for U.S. non-profits, and few, if any, groups that applied were not eligible.


I would genuinely prefer to see them all scrutinized. I wasn't alleging that all affected were trying to circumvent rules. Call this an issue of mine with citizens united, no matter who uses it. There is also fairly clear language on where it applies. It's either social welfare or the other slightly more ambiguous one. The social welfare purpose does carry certain stipulations.

from the link....

Quote:
The promotion of social welfare does not include direct or indirect participation or intervention in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office. However, a section 501(c)(4) social welfare organization may engage in some political activities, so long as that is not its primary activity. However, any expenditure it makes for political activities may be subject to tax under section 527(f). For further information regarding political and lobbying activities of section 501(c) organizations, see Election Year Issues, Political Campaign and Lobbying Activities of IRC 501(c)(4), (c)(5), and (c)(6) Organizations, and Revenue Ruling 2004-6.

 

I went through a portion of the documents linked from there a while ago, and there are certain things that are allowed or not allowed.


Edited by hmm - 6/10/14 at 11:14pm
post #28 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
 

Well, apparently you don't read polls.  

Pot, meet kettle

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post #29 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega View Post
 

Pot, meet kettle

 

I started that thread on 9/4/2012.  Show me one thing from that OP that was wrong at the time.  By the way...that phrase you're using?  I don't think you know what it means.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #30 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

That one still comes up due to the number of lives and the sheer amount of resources consumed by that invasion. As you know the costs of that war will be around for decades or longer in some form whether it's an issue of veterans' benefits or other things. 

 

I don't agree.  jimmac brings this up for one reason:  gloating.  He LOVES that we didn't find WMD in Iraq.  He also paints a picture where every conservative who supported the war was wrong, and that somehow them being wrong makes them wrong about everything for the rest of their lives.  He doesn't read, but I've posted many times that the belief that Saddam had WMD was nearly universal at the time, from conservatives to liberals, from the GOP to the Democrats, from the CIA to French Intelligence.  It has nothing to do with the costs...at least not here.

 

Quote:
In case you want to bring up the VA since it loosely ties into that, no one apparently cared about veterans getting the shaft for the past 20 or 30 years. The issue there was promised VA reform, at which time the VA started lying about its numbers. The problems go back so much further than that. It would actually be good if it results in any meaningful changes rather than new management and a continuation of its problems.

 

No.  "This has been a problem forever" is a Democratic talking point, and you know it.  The issue is that yes, reform was promised.  But more important is that a system was put in place where massive fraud was perpetrated in order to get bonuses.  The result is that veterans DIED waiting.  It doesn't stop there.  The President also has lied and stated that he found out about this issue on the news.  He was briefed on these many problems before taking office. He publicly talked about many of the issues even during his first term.  Now, the administration is shifting blame and covering up...again.  Shocker.  

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post #31 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

^^ I know that's a passive aggressive response to my comment (even though I think calling everything left and right is abject nonsense). There's an assumption that it only happened to political opponents. I personally hope they all do it when it comes to anyone trying to circumvent rules that apply to 501c4. Also thanks for the generalized ad hominem. At least I was trying to be civil.

 

Umm, it's not an assumption.  Liberal groups were not targeted.  

 

http://oversight.house.gov/release/new-oversight-report-debunks-myth-liberal-groups-targeted-irs/

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/04/confirmed-irs-agent-testifies-no-liberal-groups-were-targeted/

 

Those aren't neutral sources, but in this case they really don't need to be.  We know that conservative groups/Tea Party groups and even voter education/anti-election fraud groups were targeted.  We know because the IRS admitted it openly.  Notice they didn't offer an exculpatory evidence about targeting politically allied groups .

 

As for "hoping" they "do it" (target, I assume), there is no evidence that ANY of the targeted groups engaged in activities that would be disallowed under section 501(c)4.  In fact, many hadn't even really started activities.  They were asked what books they read, for Pete's sake.  Come on.  

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post #32 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 


In that case I'm sorry I overreacted. I browse through this section at times, but the left/right comments have a tendency to irk me, as I've always viewed that as a horrible way to view other people. It seems like much of how we arrived at this point comes back to people voting against the things they hate most. When it comes to voting for representatives at the state level, I look at their stance on warfare in general as anything but a last resort. I don't really care so much about their party affiliation.

 


I would genuinely prefer to see them all scrutinized. I wasn't alleging that all affected were trying to circumvent rules. Call this an issue of mine with citizens united, no matter who uses it. There is also fairly clear language on where it applies. It's either social welfare or the other slightly more ambiguous one. The social welfare purpose does carry certain stipulations.

from the link....

 

I went through a portion of the documents linked from there a while ago, and there are certain things that are allowed or not allowed.

 

Please explain how organizations like True the Vote are violating the spirit of the law, then.  They didn't just go after Tea Party Patriot groups.  They went after voter education groups in many cases.  

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post #33 of 93
Wow, it has been years away sorry to sidetrack thread subject but I had to see who is here and it is cool to see you guys!

Fellows
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Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #34 of 93

Good to hear from you again.

post #35 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Wow, it has been years away sorry to sidetrack thread subject but I had to see who is here and it is cool to see you guys!

Fellows

 


Hey Fellows...I've been away for a long time myself....good to see you.  

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post #36 of 93
Great to come by here, I plan to frequent here more regularly in the coming weeks just to see you guys! I always loved talking with you guys.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #37 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post
 

A primary example of you not really living in reality SDW.

 

What a joke!:lol: Uh huh.

 

 

 

I'm just going by the polling data.  I'm not sure why reading a large portion of data and summarizing various sources' conclusions would be amusing.  

 

Quote:
All I can say is who was right last time you refused to see the light?

 

I don't know to what you are referring.  

 

Quote:
And who has been incredibly wrong about just everything from WMD to who's going to win an election ( twice! :lol: ).

 

 

Quote:
As far as impeachment goes they really don't punish presidents for their actions ( otherwise Nixon would have spent the rest of his days in jail for orchestrating a break in and attempting to illegally influence a presidential election ).;)

Wow.  10 years later, and you're still bringing up WMDs in Iraq.  That's impressive.  As for "incredibly wrong about everything," that's a wildly exaggerated and inaccurate claim.   

 

Impeachment has nothing to do with punishing a President.  ;) 

 

Quote:
 Obama doesn't throw the GOP under the bus.  They refuse to see the oncoming bus! Get real!

 

Well, apparently you don't read polls.  Everyone who knows anything about politics knows that the Democrats are going to get shellacked this November.  They will certainly not regain the House, and stand a good chance of losing the Senate.  They are getting so nervous that they are starting to throw Obama under the bus.  http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/i-ve-had-enough-when-democrats-quit-on-obama-20140609

 

Quote:
There's currently no one the GOP could run against Hillary and win. No one. And you know it.

 

I don't know that.  I do know that the polling shows Hillary beating any current would-be contender.  Her hypothetical lead is not insurmountable by any stretch, though.  Before the Bridgegate thing, Christie was leading her or statistically even in a hypothetical match-up.   It really just depends on who runs.  There is no way you can state "there is currently no one the GOP could run" who would beat her.  We simply don't know that.  

 

Quote:

It's going to be disappointing for you when that landslide goes the other way but I guess you have to see by example ( again ).

 

Oh well.

 

Are you predicting a landslide for the Democrats in 2014?  You are literally the only one on the planet who believes that.  

Quote:
 I don't know to what you are referring.  

Selective memory loss?:lol:

 

Quote:
 Wow.  10 years later, and you're still bringing up WMDs in Iraq.  That's impressive.  As for "incredibly wrong about everything," that's a wildly exaggerated and inaccurate claim.   

How timely given recent events in the news ( you do watch the real news don't you? ). Almost 10 years ago one of the arguments I gave for us not invading Iraq was that what the hell will we accomplish? I stated that we'll be there for years and 10 years from now things will be just as bad with another bad guy in place.  We will have wasted time, lives,  and money. Well look what's happening. But of course we're " freeing the Iraqi people " ( the replacement argument when we didn't find any WMDs ). Just like we freed the Vietnamese people.

 ".

;) Uh huh.

 

Quote:
 Well, apparently you don't read polls.

Apparently you don't as the GOP has historically ( or is it hysterically ? ) low numbers. Much lower than Obama.

 

Quote:
  Before the Bridgegate thing, Christie was leading her or statistically even in a hypothetical match-up.   It really just depends on who runs.

Yup! Another Republican who shot himself in the foot. It may surprise you but I like Christie ( unlike the way many of his GOP brethren feel about him ). He's a Republican I might have voted for as he truly reached across party lines and it wasn't all about us vs. them but the voters. But alas he allowed his support people to follow in the foot steps of many a GOP member and ruined his chances. As they always seem to.

 

Quote:
 Are you predicting a landslide for the Democrats in 2014?  You are literally the only one on the planet who believes that.  

Here's what I'm predicting. Continued bad times for the GOP as long as they let the Teapublicans run their party. Nobody wants their doctrine ( " No! " to any idea besides their own especially Democrats thus paralyzing government ) anymore and they just don't seem to get that. For nobody read the current voting majority demographic ( you know the ones that win an election ).

 

I'm predicting that barring illness or an unforeseen disaster Hillary will probably run and be our next commander and chief in 2016.

 

If that happens I'm all for that.;) 


Edited by jimmac - 6/14/14 at 4:09pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #38 of 93

The IRS says it lost two years of Lois Lerner's emails.

The very emails that just happen to be particularly relevant to the IRS targeting of conservatives.

 

In modern government systems, this is supposed to be impossible.

When systems backup nightly or weekly, how can you possibly lose two years of data?

 

Will the liberals here call out the obvious corruption and deception in their own ranks?

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #39 of 93
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #40 of 93


I'll tell you what I will mention about this abhorrent act from the IRS. The IRS for at least 30 years is famous for wrongly investigating people of all walks of life. Not just conservatives. This was just more of the same only it has political overtones. The response to this is just as bad if it carries those same overtones in an attempt to sling mud in a particular direction..  

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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