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OS X Yosemite runs on same Macs as Mavericks, but iOS 8 drops support for iPhone 4

post #1 of 69
Thread Starter 
Any Mac currently running Mavericks will be able to install OS X Yosemite, hardware requirements released by Apple show. But the launch of iOS 8 this fall will mean the end of support for the iPhone 4, first released in 2010.




The system requirements for Yosemite listed by Apple are identical to those for Mavericks, which means that the following systems will be able to run OS X 10.10:

  • MacBook Pro: mid-2007 or newer
  • MacBook Air: late 2008 or newer
  • iMac: mid-2007 or newer
  • Mac mini: early 2009 or newer
  • Mac Pro: early 2008 or newer
  • MacBook: late 2008 aluminum, early 2009 or newer
  • Xserve: early 2009


That means the hardware requirements for Apple's latest Mac operating system have been unchanged for two years, as last year Apple did not change the requirements from the upgrade to Mountain Lion to Mavericks.

But this fall's debut of iOS 8 will leave the iPhone 4 in the dust, finally retiring support for Apple's A4 chip. The oldest phone that will be supported by iOS 8 is the iPhone 4S, which is powered by Apple's A5 CPU.




That same A5 chip is also found in the iPad 2 and first-generation iPad mini, both of which are also capable of running iOS 8. That means that all iPads that were capable of running iOS 6 and iOS 7 7 will be able to install the iOS 8 upgrade. Apple retired support for the first-generation iPad and its A4 chip with the launch of iOS 6 in 2012.

Both iOS 8 and OS X Yosemite will be free upgrades for Apple device users coming this fall. Continuity between the two platforms has been a key focus for Apple in their development.
post #2 of 69
The best news is that iOS 8 won't be hobbled on any of Apple's older iPhones in the way that iOS 7 was limited on the iPhone 4. Every iPhone will get the full iOS 8 experience.
post #3 of 69
I am still using a Late 2008 MB at work. I replaced the HD with an SSD and I have no speed issues at all. Looks like I'll be keeping it for a while longer. Color me impressed. A 6 year old lap top running the latest OS without a problem. Runs all the apps fine inc PS6 (not for heavy lifting).
post #4 of 69

I hope the features between iOS 8 and 10.10 will be available on all handsets, tempted to keep my iPhone 4s another year but really want to use my Mac to answer my phone whilst it's on charge etc.

iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
Reply
post #5 of 69
Thanks to Apple who still willing to support over 3 generations old iphone, ipads, Macs, etc. AND big NO thanks to Google android and those selling android phones which hardly supports last year's models. I am waiting for my LG Optimus e970 for kitkat update. Samsung dropped galaxy s3 from kitkat update and the list go on and on and on. I am sorry, it is big list to list here but you know what I am saying if you are android smartphone user.
post #6 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

I hope the features between iOS 8 and 10.10 will be available on all handsets, tempted to keep my iPhone 4s another year but really want to use my Mac to answer my phone whilst it's on charge etc.

I doubt features would be limited for the 4S since the 4S ran iOS 7 fine. I would assume most of iOS 8's improvements aren't processor intensive.
post #7 of 69
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post
The best news is that iOS 8 won't be hobbled on any of Apple's older iPhones in the way that iOS 7 was limited on the iPhone 4. Every iPhone will get the full iOS 8 experience.

 

Any evidence of that? Remember iOS 7 only gave panorama shots to the newest iPhones. I see that iOS 8 is bringing panoramas to the iPad, but you can bet the iPad 2 and 3 won’t get that.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #8 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I am still using a Late 2008 MB at work. I replaced the HD with an SSD and I have no speed issues at all. Looks like I'll be keeping it for a while longer. Color me impressed. A 6 year old lap top running the latest OS without a problem. Runs all the apps fine inc PS6 (not for heavy lifting).

We still have a Mid 2007 iMac at home used mainly by my wife. I'm (pleasantly) surprised that it made the cut for Yosemite.

 

The question is will I be tempted to change my iPhone 4S when the new phone(s) is(are) released?

post #9 of 69

Amazing.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #10 of 69
I've already seen people commenting other places online about Apple dropping support for the iPhone 4 (will be near 5 yrs old when OS is released).Absolutely hilarious.
post #11 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdyB View Post
The question is will I be tempted to change my iPhone 4S when the new phone(s) is(are) released?

I am always tempted :) In the end I usually end up changing when the device I am using becomes unbearable. Its not that I resist the temptation. I'm just lazy. The 4s is still a pretty capable phone and if its in good condition its amazing how much you can get for it.

post #12 of 69

It is always sad when old devices are no longer supported but for developers there is a silver lining: The iPhone 4 will always run iOS 7 for backwards compatibility testing. Apple has very few ways for developers to test their apps on older versions of iOS on physical devices. Good luck trying to buy an old device on eBay that runs a particular version of iOS you want to test. If we don't have a particular device/iOS version combo, we just hope for the best so it is great that at least one device will always run iOS 7 for testing.

post #13 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

The best news is that iOS 8 won't be hobbled on any of Apple's older iPhones in the way that iOS 7 was limited on the iPhone 4. Every iPhone will get the full iOS 8 experience.


source?

post #14 of 69

Guys I am now thinking what about iOS 9.  What devices do you think iOS 9 will support?

 

If we are following the logic that a device can now support 4 years worth of OS, the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 IMO will not support iOS 9.

If we are following the logic that a device supports a OS based on the SoC, iPhone 4S, iPad 2, iPod touch 5th generation, iPad mini 1st generation and iPad 3rd generation will not support iOS 9. (iDevices running on A5 chip, including the odd out A5X)

 

I think Apple will do something weird next year, having iPad mini 1st generation and iPad 3rd generation running iOS 9, but not on iPhone 4S and iPad 2.

 

My prediction on iOS 9 compatible devices:

 

iPhone 5, 5c, 5s, 2014, 2015

iPad 4, Air, Air 2, Air 3, mini 2, mini 3, mini 4

iPod touch 6

 

I think iPad mini 1, iPad 3 should not make it into the list.  This will make the lineup consists of A6, A7, A8 & A9 chip only.  I think this will make the engineering smoother in general for the entire lineup.

 

Then in iOS X, maintain the same lineup i.e. iPhone 5 and 5c can still run iOS X.


Edited by LJC94512 - 6/4/14 at 8:51am
post #15 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I am still using a Late 2008 MB at work. I replaced the HD with an SSD and I have no speed issues at all. Looks like I'll be keeping it for a while longer. Color me impressed. A 6 year old lap top running the latest OS without a problem. Runs all the apps fine inc PS6 (not for heavy lifting).

 

I have a mid year 2009 Macbook Pro at home. Same thing. I replaced the hard drive with a SSD. It is quite fast. I would, however, enjoy some of the newer capabilities in terms of things like being able to stream from a Mac to an Apple TV. IN some ways I prefer the older Mac because of things like the built-in DVD burner, which I still use. 

post #16 of 69

In case anyone was wondering, I was able to upgrade from 10.7.5 to 10.10 (DP) without any issues at all. I had a test Mac that only had 10.7.5 installed so I ran the upgrade and it worked fine. I can test from 10.6.8 if anyone is interested?

Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

Reply

Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

Reply
post #17 of 69

And my Early 2008 MacBook Pro is smiling from USB port to USB port.     :)

 

Ran every Mac OS beautifully, from what it came with right up to Mavericks. Stuck more RAM in it in 2009 to bring it up to 6GB. Still chugging along nicely.  

post #18 of 69
Its not just a problem of processor but also RAM. The iPad 1 had the same processor as the iPhone 4 but could not run iOS 7. We will just have to wait and see.
post #19 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiffy31 View Post

Its not just a problem of processor but also RAM. The iPad 1 had the same processor as the iPhone 4 but could not run iOS 7. We will just have to wait and see.

All devices running on iOS 7 has at least 512MB RAM, so you are right.  Getting rid of all A5 equipped devices seems to be the reasonable choice, and iPad 1 ran on iOS 3 4 5, so assuming the same logic, iPad mini 1st generation run on iOS 6 7 8 and then discontinued.  That's just my opinion

post #20 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post
 

 

I have a mid year 2009 Macbook Pro at home. Same thing. I replaced the hard drive with a SSD. It is quite fast. I would, however, enjoy some of the newer capabilities in terms of things like being able to stream from a Mac to an Apple TV. IN some ways I prefer the older Mac because of things like the built-in DVD burner, which I still use. 

You should be able to stream from iTunes to your Apple TV - I can and do that occasionally, although at home I have other more capable devices. As far as burning DVD's I haven touched a DVD in years. In fact, on my old MB I removed it an put in another SSD. I was given a DVD set of a television series for my birthday and couldn't watch it. No DVD or CD players in our house. I felt justified in bittorrenting the series.

post #21 of 69
If it is somewhere public it'd be nice if you could point us to exactly where Apple states the official system requirements for Yosemite because there is no tech specs page linked from the Yosemite preview pages and I just want to see this directly from them too as confirmation. If what you say in this article is just based on developer preview installation anecdotes (that really should be kept back due to NDAs) then technically support for some older Macs could be dropped at a later date as the betas move along before public release. So, you see, I think we all deserve to see the original source of this information.
post #22 of 69
Well, as much as I have been enjoying iOS 7.1 on my old iPhone 4, it has been time to upgrade for quite a while now anyway.
post #23 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


I doubt features would be limited for the 4S since the 4S ran iOS 7 fine. I would assume most of iOS 8's improvements aren't processor intensive.

I think fine is stretching it a bit, it runs okay but can bog down at times.

 

Just because a phone runs well under one release doesn't mean it will run fine with the next, the iPhone 4 ran iOS 6 fine but is truly awful with iOS 7. To me I feel the jump between iOS 7 to 8 will be bigger than with 6 to 7. 7 wasn't much more than just a UI update, 8 will provide more inter-application communication and other features which will be demanding on the CPU.

 

My worry is Apple won't limit features and all 4s users will be complaining that their phones have poor performance - they should learn from the iPhone 4 issues with iOS 7.

post #24 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post
 

You should be able to stream from iTunes to your Apple TV - I can and do that occasionally, although at home I have other more capable devices. As far as burning DVD's I haven touched a DVD in years. In fact, on my old MB I removed it an put in another SSD. I was given a DVD set of a television series for my birthday and couldn't watch it. No DVD or CD players in our house. I felt justified in bittorrenting the series.

Agreed - I have a 2009 Mac Mini and have no problems doing that.  You have to wait for content to be fully downloaded though (i.e. if you just bought something on iTunes and its "ready to watch" you can view it on the mac, but you have to wait until its fully downloaded to push it to Apple TV)

post #25 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScartArt View Post

I think fine is stretching it a bit, it runs okay but can bog down at times.

Just because a phone runs well under one release doesn't mean it will run fine with the next, the iPhone 4 ran iOS 6 fine but is truly awful with iOS 7.

Honestly, the iPhone 4 running iOS 7.0 WAS pretty awful, but the support Apple gave us with the 7.1 update has been pretty awesome. I have been enjoying all the new features that came with iOS 7 on my old 4. I was honestly just happy that Apple didn't forget about us old loyal users with the iOS 7 update, I think. But I completely understand that they are hampered by hardware limitations and am not surprised the 4 was cut from iOS 8. Still better OS support for older hardware models with Apple than with Android, so we're lucky that way at least.
post #26 of 69

I am sure not all features will be supported by all versions of iPhones.  Can't answer on the Mac side.  

post #27 of 69
How does the proximity work on the older macs?
Current tools (like knock) require the new bluetooth standard, only on >2011 Mac's.
Or might it use the Wifi-N dual band , like airdrop. (which isn't supported on iPhone 4S)
post #28 of 69
Smart move. iOS 7 was pretty laggy on the 4.
post #29 of 69
Originally Posted by smiffy31 View Post
Its not just a problem of processor but also RAM. The iPad 1 had the same processor as the iPhone 4 but could not run iOS 7. We will just have to wait and see.

 

256MB RAM vs 512 on the iPhone 4.

 

Originally Posted by LJC94512 View Post
iPad 1 ran on iOS 3 4 5

 

And that bothered me RIGHT at the announcement. I knew they’d screw us like that by creating iPhone OS 3.2 specifically for the iPad instead of going to 4. :p

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #30 of 69
A5 is a giant product for Apple... iPhone 4s, iPad 2, iPad mini, iPod Touch... All have been in production and some are STILL in production right now. I think we will probably see iOS 9 for A5.... Or iOS 9 will go A7/64-bits and up... Leaving 50+ million devices at A5 and A6 levels. That's a big group of users to drop without so e kind of alternate means... Kind of like how iOS 6 devices do much better at selecting Apps that are compatible from the Apps a Store when they used to just leave you hanging.
post #31 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I've already seen people commenting other places online about Apple dropping support for the iPhone 4 (will be near 5 yrs old when OS is released).Absolutely hilarious.

Not at all IPhone 4 is perhaps the best form factor iPhone Apple has yet to produce. I understand its begin phased out software support wise but just because I understand the issue of supporting software on old hardware doesn't mean I like the reality of that. I look at it this way it is stimulation to buy a new cell phone but frankly I'm not real excited about Apple current offerings.
post #32 of 69
O
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I doubt features would be limited for the 4S since the 4S ran iOS 7 fine. I would assume most of iOS 8's improvements aren't processor intensive.
only airdrop
post #33 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I've already seen people commenting other places online about Apple dropping support for the iPhone 4 (will be near 5 yrs old when OS is released).Absolutely hilarious.

You could understand people commenting on it though, right?  It was manufactured and sold by Apple all the way up until September of last year. So for some people that bought it late last year they are stuck.  So of course some people are going to complain.  Plus the device will be 4 years old late this month.  I realize that is a long time in the tech industry but Apple products tend to last longer than the competition.  

 

I am more interested to see how OS X runs on my Late 2008 MB Pro.  I can't afford to upgrade to a new MacBook so I have to be satisfied with this one. Of course with 8GB RAM and a SSD it runs surprisingly good for it's age.  I am also interested to see how iOS 8 runs on my iPad 4.  Hopefully they really tuned the speed for a smooth and responsive feel.

post #34 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

The best news is that iOS 8 won't be hobbled on any of Apple's older iPhones in the way that iOS 7 was limited on the iPhone 4. Every iPhone will get the full iOS 8 experience.

It's partly a financial thing as well as technical. They mention it in their SEC filings. If they keep giving free software updates, they have to account for those as costs against the older models. They mention that they typically aim for 2-4 years of software support. This is clearly different from the Mac side at the moment but they'd actually have to manually prevent OS X running on hardware capable of it, which they can't feasibly do without a PR backlash.

"In 2013, 2012 and 2011, the Company’s combined ESPs for the unspecified software upgrade rights and the rights to receive the non-software services included with its qualifying hardware devices have ranged from $5 to $25. Beginning in September 2013, the combined ESPs for iPhone and iPad were increased by up to $5 to reflect additions to unspecified software upgrade rights due to expansion of essential software bundled with these devices. Accordingly, the range of combined ESPs for iPhone and iPad as of September 2013 is $15 to $25. Beginning in October 2013, the Company anticipates increasing the combined ESPs for Mac from $20 to $40 to reflect additions to unspecified software upgrade rights related to expansion of bundled essential software. Revenue allocated to such rights is deferred and recognized on a straight-line basis over the estimated period the rights are expected to be provided for each device, which ranges from two to four years."

Mavericks was released in October 2013 and OS X used to cost $20 so that probably explains the increase in cost from $20 to $40 per device once they made it free. There should be no technical reason to drop the iPhone 4 from iOS 8 but it's 4 years old now and beyond even their AppleCare warranty period. Hardware companies can only survive if users eventually have little choice but to buy an upgrade:

post #35 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJC94512 View Post
 

Guys I am now thinking what about iOS 9.  What devices do you think iOS 9 will support?

 

If we are following the logic that a device can now support 4 years worth of OS, the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 IMO will not support iOS 9.

 

Even though the iPad 2 is running an A5, I suspect Apple may try to get another OS generation out of it. Apple was still selling the 2 until the Air came out, right (i.e. the 2 is the third generation back by development but only the second by sales)? And even later than that to educational and institutional customers. 

 

edit: But a good point is made above: the iPhone 4 was still being sold as new even late last year, and that's not covered by iOS 8, much less 9. Still, I think the educational/institutional market may reasonably expect upgrades longer than the consumer market.

post #36 of 69
They really should drop the 2007 iMac. It's almost unusable under Mavericks with 4GB of RAM. There are just too many services running in the background and that's just going to increase in Yosemite.
post #37 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJC94512 View Post

Guys I am now thinking what about iOS 9.  What devices do you think iOS 9 will support?
You do realize iOS 8 hasn't even shipped yet.
Quote:
If we are following the logic that a device can now support 4 years worth of OS, the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 IMO will not support iOS 9.
That is an assumption not logic. We don't even know what issues Apple ran into to cause them to drop iPhone 4. Everyone thinks it is a performance issue but there is no proof of that and frankly iOS 7 is passable on iPhone 4.
Quote:
If we are following the logic that a device supports a OS based on the SoC, iPhone 4S, iPad 2, iPod touch 5th generation, iPad mini 1st generation and iPad 3rd generation will not support iOS 9. (iDevices running on A5 chip, including the odd out A5X)
Again an assumption is not logic! If you follow Apples development processes and tools you will realize that they have spent incredible resources on making parts of the OS more efficient, they could easily have apps and the OS actually running faster on old hardware or using less RAM. The effort put into Safari for example is yielding excellent results.
Quote:
I think Apple will do something weird next year, having iPad mini 1st generation and iPad 3rd generation running iOS 9, but not on iPhone 4S and iPad 2.
If it does happen what would be weird about that? I suspect Apples goals here are to deliver acceptable performance and frankly we can't predict where that will be hardware wise because as noted they have spent considerable resources on making things more efficient.
Quote:
My prediction on iOS 9 compatible devices:

iPhone 5, 5c, 5s, 2014, 2015
iPad 4, Air, Air 2, Air 3, mini 2, mini 3, mini 4
iPod touch 6

I think iPad mini 1, iPad 3 should not make it into the list.  This will make the lineup consists of A6, A7, A8 & A9 chip only.  I think this will make the engineering smoother in general for the entire lineup.

Then in iOS X, maintain the same lineup i.e. iPhone 5 and 5c can still run iOS X.

Really the thing to do here is to wait and see how iOS actually performs on existing hardware. That would give one some idea about how iOS9 would perform if you are really really worried about something more than a year away.
post #38 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

They really should drop the 2007 iMac. It's almost unusable under Mavericks with 4GB of RAM. There are just too many services running in the background and that's just going to increase in Yosemite.

My 2009 Mini with 2GB of Ram had greatly improved performance with Mavericks.  Actually was considering buying a new computer until then, which is good because a new mini looks increasingly less likely...

post #39 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post
 

Agreed - I have a 2009 Mac Mini and have no problems doing that.  You have to wait for content to be fully downloaded though (i.e. if you just bought something on iTunes and its "ready to watch" you can view it on the mac, but you have to wait until its fully downloaded to push it to Apple TV)

 

That's where Airplay would be nice.   I'm at a 2010 mac Mini... I had a 25' HDMI cable connected to my mini for that in the past... now I'm in a different room... Airplay would be great.   

 

Power Nap is another 'needs a newer CPU/Motherboard' limitation.  AirDrop is less limited, isn't supported on all Mavericks supported configs.

 

The over/under on all Apple SW functionality on Apple HW is about 2.5 years.     On phone's this is closer to 1.9 years.  

 

In my line of work, getting a New Laptop/iPad every 4 years is about right.  a New Phone every 2 years (I cracked my 1.5 yo 4s screen... first time I've broken a screen... scratched them, never cracked one) is about right too.

 

I think the key thing for iP* devices will be the general inclusion of m4/TouchID on all devices this year.  In 2 years, Apple (and more importantly, developers) will likely fork their code on that capability alone, if not shortening the support for devices like the 5 and 5c.  (I'll be surprised if Apple sells both a 5s and 5c next fall after the iPhone 6 announcement, given the new geometry rumors).

post #40 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post
 

My 2009 Mini with 2GB of Ram had greatly improved performance with Mavericks.  Actually was considering buying a new computer until then, which is good because a new mini looks increasingly less likely...

I concur.  I upgraded to 8GB on my 2010 Mini, and was hitting the wall constantly (I was running ICleanMemory every 30 minutes or so).   Upgrading to Mavericks reduced the performance degradation at 7.5GB in use or above.  replacing the stock HD with SSD made this computer spiffy fast.    Spending $400 on Memory and an SSD*  was a better upgrade path (saving money to buy dual 27" monitors in my near future).

 

*(All was not good... I torqued my SuperDrive in putting the SSD.  I'm thinking literally torqued... some alignment issue... it reads the drive header information but can't get up to speed to write or read data).

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