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Apple's 'arrogance' wrought mediocre iTunes Radio and led to Beats buy, report says - Page 2

post #41 of 141
I tend to buy the theory that Apple is losing its cool factor but more so that Apple realizes that their products are not as "cool" with the urban collective. For the most part Apple products are seen as products for white people, and Apple is seen as white company. Maybe Dre can change this.
post #42 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

iTunes Radio isn't that shitty. Especially for a year one product.

These reports sound more like folks being bitter that their suggestions were not taken and the final product want the way they would have done it

There's a difference between being bitter and being disappointed. I just think they could have done a LOT more with it than they did. Especially with everyone hitting the "I Agree" button. Most probably didn't notice that they did.

Honestly, it is what it is (always hated that phrase). They have everyone's "genius data" and itunes radios is just a hit or miss song in a specific genre. It's running off the same algorithm as their shuffle (which sucks) and their screensaver/slideshow (which sucks). It literally has to be the worst random number generator in programming history.
post #43 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

...there are a lot of people who don't use itunes and also are not limited to the space requirements on their devices that Apple places.

1) Everyone is limited by the capacity of their NAND. It doesn't matter how much capacity you have your storage limits will never exceed your capacity.

2) If they don't use the iTunes app or the Music app on an iDevice then why even mention iTunes Match? It's purpose is designed for those that use iTunes and iDevice. This is not a niche scenario.[

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

I can actually fit my entire "music" and I do stress music library on each.

What does having a music library small enough to fit on your devices have to do with anything? Why do I waist up to 64 or 128 GiB on storing my entire music library locally when 95% of the songs I only listen once or twice a year, if that? The beauty of iTunes Match is I can save money on a smaller capacity iPhone that would have more usable room for other apps while still having every single song at my fingertips if I want to listen to it. I have plenty of songs local if they are in my Top Rated or Most Pllayed playlists but that's it.
Quote:
So using the cloud to listen to my music is basically worthless.

No it's not.
Quote:
Don't argue, Apple bred this situation.

It should be argued because you're stance is wrong.
Quote:
It's useless to me, and from the very, very, very many people I know who own iDevices that would need that function, they didn't sign up.

And that's perfectly fine if you don't want to use it but it's not right to claim that it holds no value for anyone else. Apple make a plethora of HW and SW products and services that I don't use but I wouldn't say they are worthless.

Again, how can you say that iTunes Match is worthless for me when it 1) saves me money, 2) saves me space on my iPhone, iPad and Mac, 3) offers me every song I own without having to pick and choose what I might be in the mood for at some later date, and 4) saves me time and effort by letting me DL whatever I want locally with the touch of a button without having to go sync with iTunes on my Mac?

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post #44 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

For the most part Apple products are seen as products for white people


Really?  I've never thought of Apple products that way.  What makes you think this?

post #45 of 141

I've not tried iTunes Radio yet. Is it even out in Hong Kong? I do however have a paid iTunes Match account and also Spotify Premium.

I use iTunes Match to upload tracks that can't be found on Spotify. In general I seem to get a better connection streaming Spotify music than iTunes Match when I am out and about but I do have to bare in mind my LTE data package only gives me 5Gb per months so certain albums I download and make available offline.  Spotify also allows me to discover new music. I'm tempted to try Beats Music but it's probably more of the same.

 

post #46 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Everyone is limited by the capacity of their NAND. It doesn't matter how much capacity you have your storage limits will never exceed your capacity.

2) If they don't use the iTunes app or the Music app on an iDevice then why even mention iTunes Match? It's purpose is designed for those that use iTunes and iDevice. This is not a niche scenario.[you
What does having a music library small enough to fit on your devices have to do with anything? Why do I waist up to 64 or 128 GiB on storing my entire music library locally when 95% of the songs I only listen once or twice a year, if that? The beauty of iTunes Match is I can save money on a smaller capacity iPhone that would have more usable room for other apps while still having every single song at my fingertips if I want to listen to it. I have plenty of songs local if they are in my Top Rated or Most Pllayed playlists but that's it.
No it's not.
It should be argued because you're stance is wrong.
And that's perfectly fine if you don't want to use it but it's not right to claim that it holds no value for anyone else. Apple make a plethora of HW and SW products and services that I don't use but I wouldn't say they are worthless.

Again, how can you say that iTunes Match is worthless for me when it 1) saves me money, 2) saves me space on my iPhone, iPad and Mac, 3) offers me every song I own without having to pick and choose what I might be in the mood for at some later date, and 4) saves me time and effort by letting me DL whatever I want locally with the touch of a button without having to go sync with iTunes on my Mac?

1). I'm not sure what your getting at here. Either you are limited or your not limited because you'll never exceed your capacity. If it's what I'm guessing you're aiming at, iTunes Match only seems to match music, at least for me. I have a ton of digital content. 12TB. They can't possibly match that, and what is useful can be fit to the device very well.

2). You missed my point. For people who don't use itunes, there's no benefit. However people who do not use itunes still own iDevices. From my experience, myself not included, it it a inch scenario.

3). You didn't number it, but I know what you mean. That was also what I expected when I grabbed my iPad and phone and started traveling. Then I ran into 😁no service. More times than I can count, itunes In the cloud became irrelevant not the first time, not the second or third, but It lost me among my travels and that's just it.

4) . You didn't number it.., why am I wrong and why should it be argued? You've usually provided ample references in previous statements.

5). My friend, don't let the fact that you think it's saving you space seem like a god send. Don't EVER use itunes s or iTunes Match as a backup. You're just asking for trouble.

Edit: I am writing this on an iPad. Scrolling up to read and down to write is tiresome if not rough, typing "that's great" and having the auto spell place "serpent" in it's place is also horrible. I look forward to the predictive typing . Hopefully then I will not have to correct all of my typing so that it actually spells out what I had meant to type. Editing what you type has so far been a huge drawback on iDevices.
Edited by Silver Shadow - 6/6/14 at 12:11am
post #47 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

1). I'm not sure what your getting at here. Either you are limited or your not limited because you'll never exceed your capacity. If it's what I'm guessing you're aiming at, iTunes Match only seems to match music, at least for me. I have a ton of digital content. 12TB. They can't possibly match that, and what is useful can be fit to the device very well.

2). You missed my point. For people who don't use itunes, there's no benefit. However people who do not use itunes still own iDevices. From my experience, myself not included, it it a inch scenario.

3). You didn't number it, but I know what you mean. That was also what I expected when I grabbed my iPad and phone and started traveling. Then I ran into 😁no service. More times than I can count, itunes In the cloud became irrelevant not the first time, not the second or third, but It lost me among my travels and that's just it.

4) . You didn't number it.., why am I wrong and why should it be argued? You've usually provided ample references in previous statements.

5). My friend, don't let the fact that you think it's saving you space seem like a god send. Don't EVER use itunes s or iTunes Match as a backup. You're just asking for trouble.

Based on your comment you don't understand how the Tunes Match service works and yet I've explained it a couple times in detail how it works and how it benefits me.

I don't know where to go when you post, "Then I ran into 😁no service." when it's been made clear iTunes Match will allow you to put whatever you want on your device locally and when you write "For people who don't use itunes, there's no benefit." and yet they are getting their music on their iPhones in some fashion.

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post #48 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Based on your comment you don't understand how the Tunes Match service works and yet I've explained it a couple times in detail how it works and how it benefits me.

I don't know where to go when you post, "Then I ran into 😁no service." when it's been made clear iTunes Match will allow you to put whatever you want on your device locally and when you write "For people who don't use itunes, there's no benefit." and yet they are getting their music on their iPhones in some fashion.

My point, from a previous poster...

simtub replied to this thread on June 5, 11:48 pm
I've not tried iTunes Radio yet. Is it even out in Hong Kong? I do however have a paid iTunes Match account and also Spotify Premium.

I use iTunes Match to upload tracks that can't be found on Spotify. In general I seem to get a better connection streaming Spotify music than iTunes Match when I am out and about but I do have to bare in mind my LTE data package only gives me 5Gb per months so certain albums I download and make available offline. Spotify also allows me to discover new music. I'm tempted to try Beats Music but it's probably more of the same.
post #49 of 141
Quote:
"The management in particular were pretty much tone-deaf in what Spotify was and that's why they're panicking now," one person said. "They didn't understand how Spotify worked ..."

 

OK, so even a numpty like me understands how Spotify works, but somehow Apple, full of some of the savviest tech minds on the planet and creators of the iTunes Store and the iPod "didn't understand how Spotify worked".

 

Right.

 

My tip to Tim is, have a look here: https://www.spotify.com/uk/  :)

 

There you go. Sorted.

post #50 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

So you're saying it takes 9 developers to make an app? I can show you a flashlight app made by a publisher who posts articles on this very site. Think it took nine people?

 

I'd stop digging if I were you.

post #51 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Based on your comment you don't understand how the Tunes Match service works and yet I've explained it a couple times in detail how it works and how it benefits me.

I don't know where to go when you post, "Then I ran into 😁no service." when it's been made clear iTunes Match will allow you to put whatever you want on your device locally and when you write "For people who don't use itunes, there's no benefit." and yet they are getting their music on their iPhones in some fashion.

I know exactly how it works. Apparently it's useful to you.

You're not the mainstream audience they're looking for.
post #52 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post

I'd stop digging if I were you.

Hand me a shovel and tell me where I'm wrong. I don't hate Apple, I've given them a lot of my money. I'll fill that hole in if you can tell me why.
post #53 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Apple products are seen as products for white people...

 

Not correct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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post #54 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post


Really?  I've never thought of Apple products that way.  What makes you think this?

Especially when Apple's largest market is going to be China.

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post #55 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

Hand me a shovel and tell me where I'm wrong. I don't hate Apple, I've given them a lot of my money. I'll fill that hole in if you can tell me why.
You really think 1 person wrote Infinity Blade?

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post #56 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

You're not the mainstream audience they're looking for

I'm using it as they intended so I'm clearly their intended audience.

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post #57 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post


I think you missed something... I have iTunes Match also.

I have a 128Gig iPad and 64Gig iPhone 5s. I can actually fit my entire "music" and I do stress music library on each. So using the cloud to listen to my music is basically worthless. Don't argue, Apple bred this situation. It's useless to me, and from the very, very, very many people I know who own iDevices that would need that function, they didn't sign up.

So you're saying it takes 9 developers to make an app? I can show you a flashlight app made by a publisher who posts articles on this very site. Think it took nine people?

Most people, I would say eight out of nine, were signing up for developer accounts to try the newest betas. Do you seriously disagree? If you do I'll point you to a site where it costs $49.99 to get the latest beta....

I'm curious if they'll tout developer numbers next year after they lost 1 million purchasers to the beta program.

 

- So iTunes match is useless TO YOU, so it can be defined as "useless", right? You have the highest capacity iPhone and iPad? Good for you. The vast majority of iOS users do not. And even the ones that might not care to fill their entire storage with music. Or, you know, they appreciate the ability to stream from any of their devices. Try to look beyond your own nose, and have a bit more humility than declaring something YOU don't personally use s "useless". 

 

- "So you're saying it takes exactly 9 developers to make an app?" Do you have reading comprehension issues? Did I say that? No, I did not. It might take 1 person to develop an app. or 5. Or 30. Or 50. It depends on the app. There are some extremely high quality apps out there with high production values that took large art teams to create.  Then to "prove" me wrong you point to a damn flashlight app?  Is the appstore composed only of flashlight apps? Are you thick? Stop erecting idiotic straw-men, I don't even think you know what you're arguing anymore. 

 

-"Most people, I would say eight out of nine, were signing up for developer accounts to try the newest betas. Do you seriously disagree?" Do I seriously disagree with a number you pulled straight out of your ass? Yeah, I just might. 

 

I'm sorry, but you're either being purposeful obtuse, or you're seriously ignorant and confused. The fact that you define the appstore as a repository of flashlight apps is pretty sad, not to mention intellectually dishonest. A spit in the face to the developers who have spent tens of thousands of hours developing high quality apps. Also, stop trying to dictate what you believe is mainstream You're clearly disconnected from that and have no clue. 


Edited by Slurpy - 6/6/14 at 1:06am
post #58 of 141
I don't believe a word of that story. Management didn't know what spotify was , and never listened to it until iTunes Radio failed then they had the chops to look into the obscure Beats music.

The reason it's a radio service is because it's cheaper to do that. Much cheaper. Apple would lose money the other way and probably couldn't get the deals they were looking for.
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post #59 of 141
Acquiring beats to go after a younger generation?

Lol. The youth are into iTunes. Not Beats.

Andre is pretty old. And lovine... Ain't young.

I guess apple can fire back now with ethic diversity criticism.

Beats didn't seem all that successful with half a million subscribers that they bought when they acquired MOG. and limited to the U.S. Esp in light of iTunes' 800 million and international base.
post #60 of 141

iTunes Radio still isn't available in the UK. I've got an iTunes Match subscription but I doubt I'd use it regularly even if it was available. The great thing about Spotify is the same thing that makes Netflix so great - ubiquity. It doesn't matter what piece of audio electronics I buy, I know it will have Spotify support. Support for iTunes Radio seems quite limited (for example, Sonos doesn't support it yet).

post #61 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

It works like a gym. They make a Buck off of it because most who pay for iTunes Match don't use it. Mostly because it's useless,

Kind of like having 9million developers, and one million apps... I'm amazed they would announce such a thing.

I'd like to see you stats on the most who don't use it.
As for your second statement, you do realize that there may be more than one developer behind certain apps.
post #62 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

So you're saying it takes 9 developers to make an app? I can show you a flashlight app made by a publisher who posts articles on this very site. Think it took nine people?

 

I'd stop digging if I were you.

Life's a bitch. You're not him :-), you're sure as hell not me :-). but keep being you and be happy to let other people be as silly as they like to be. That way you get a barrel of laughs out of AI.

post #63 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post


Really?  I've never thought of Apple products that way.  What makes you think this?

Especially when Apple's largest market is going to be China.

THAT could turn out to be wishful thinking. It'll be interesting to see if Apple can beat the chinese on their own turf. Wouldn't bet on it myself.

post #64 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post


I think you missed something... I have iTunes Match also.

I have a 128Gig iPad and 64Gig iPhone 5s. I can actually fit my entire "music" and I do stress music library on each. So using the cloud to listen to my music is basically worthless. Don't argue, Apple bred this situation. It's useless to me, and from the very, very, very many people I know who own iDevices that would need that function, they didn't sign up.

So you're saying it takes 9 developers to make an app? I can show you a flashlight app made by a publisher who posts articles on this very site. Think it took nine people?

Most people, I would say eight out of nine, were signing up for developer accounts to try the newest betas. Do you seriously disagree? If you do I'll point you to a site where it costs $49.99 to get the latest beta....

I'm curious if they'll tout developer numbers next year after they lost 1 million purchasers to the beta program.

 

- So iTunes match is useless TO YOU, so it can be defined as "useless", right? You have the highest capacity iPhone and iPad? Good for you. The vast majority of iOS users do not. And even the ones that might not care to fill their entire storage with music. Or, you know, they appreciate the ability to stream from any of their devices. Try to look beyond your own nose, and have a bit more humility than declaring something YOU don't personally use s "useless". 

 

- "So you're saying it takes exactly 9 developers to make an app?" Do you have reading comprehension issues? Did I say that? No, I did not. It might take 1 person to develop an app. or 5. Or 30. Or 50. It depends on the app. There are some extremely high quality apps out there with high production values that took large art teams to create.  Then to "prove" me wrong you point to a damn flashlight app?  Is the appstore composed only of flashlight apps? Are you thick? Stop erecting idiotic straw-men, I don't even think you know what you're arguing anymore. 

 

-"Most people, I would say eight out of nine, were signing up for developer accounts to try the newest betas. Do you seriously disagree?" Do I seriously disagree with a number you pulled straight out of your ass? Yeah, I just might. 

 

I'm sorry, but you're either being purposeful obtuse, or you're seriously ignorant and confused. The fact that you define the appstore as a repository of flashlight apps is pretty sad, not to mention intellectually dishonest. A spit in the face to the developers who have spent tens of thousands of hours developing high quality apps. Also, stop trying to dictate what you believe is mainstream You're clearly disconnected from that and have no clue. 

Slurpy, I'd just like to see ONE post from you that doesn't end up being abusive. Just one. Just to see if you can do it ! You know .. just to see if you have any control over yourself at all.

post #65 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

iTunes Radio isn't that shitty. Especially for a year one product.

These reports sound more like folks being bitter that their suggestions were not taken and the final product want the way they would have done it

Yet Beats is supposedly better by $3B at 5 months. Go figure.
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
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Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
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post #66 of 141
There are minimum 37 million iTunes Radio listeners in the USA. Cue reported 40 million worldwide (Australia & USA).

The reason Cook said iTunes Radio did not meet expectations was that listens were not necessarily converting to downloads.
post #67 of 141
There are minimum 37 million iTunes Radio listeners in the USA. Cue reported 40 million worldwide (Australia & USA).

The reason Cook said iTunes Radio did not meet expectations was that listens were not necessarily converting to downloads.
post #68 of 141
iTunes radio is a totally different beast from a subscription on demand music service. For a 1.0 service I think it is doing well. Like maps I'm willing to give it time and what it mature.
post #69 of 141

I wish I could compare them.

 

Sincerely,

Fanboy stuck on the wrong side of a cultural border, Canada

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post #70 of 141
It took the entire Apple Insider staff to write this article? What, no one or two people wanted to put their name to this garbage story with twisted facts and inaccuracies?

Was there really a "furor" over the Beats deal. A little dramatic, would't you say "AppleInsider Staff"

"So much capital"? Someone correct me if my math is wrong, but that $3B is 1.875% of Apple's $160B in capital. If you had $100 and bought something for $1.88, would you think you spent "so much of your capital" on that purchase? It just goes to show you how much the pundits think....they don't.
Edited by stargazerCT - 6/6/14 at 6:30am
post #71 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

iTunes Radio isn't that shitty. Especially for a year one product.

These reports sound more like folks being bitter that their suggestions were not taken and the final product want the way they would have done it

 

Much like the nattering nabobs of negativism who infest threads like this one. When it comes to personal opinion being expressed as undeniable fact this place has no equal. “My” opinion is indisputable. Yours is shit. All on the same level with the bozos who published the original screed.

post #72 of 141
iTunes Radio is mostly a snore. It repeats too soon, concentrates mostly on major songs and artists, isn't very deep, and worst of all, plays commercials even though I have paid for iTunes Match. It almost seems as if they don't really CARE. I'll stick with Pandora for now.
post #73 of 141
Is it April 1st?
post #74 of 141
Buzzfeed is about as legitimate;y authoritative on American business as, say, the Mississippi Tea Party.
post #75 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post

THAT could turn out to be wishful thinking. It'll be interesting to see if Apple can beat the chinese on their own turf. Wouldn't bet on it myself.

Apple doesn't have to beat the Chinese manufacturers in China, Apple just has to take the middle to high end of the market.
post #76 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by snailer View Post

iTunes Radio is mostly a snore. It repeats too soon, concentrates mostly on major songs and artists, isn't very deep, and worst of all, plays commercials even though I have paid for iTunes Match. It almost seems as if they don't really CARE. I'll stick with Pandora for now.


That's one of the things that bugs me: I want to listen to iTunes Radio without commercials on my iPhone, but I don't necessarily want Match on because I've selected locally stored music and don't want Match to "replace the music library on this device", and I still want the ability to quickly locally sync specific songs/albums/playlists.  But the commercial-free Radio feature only works when Match is on, which is silly.  I've already paid for it, so I should get commercial-free Radio regardless of whether I choose to actually enable Match on the device.  I primarily use Match on my iPad on wi-fi at home where data cost and network availability are not an issue.

post #77 of 141

"former employee" and "anonymous source" = bogus story

post #78 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post

THAT could turn out to be wishful thinking. It'll be interesting to see if Apple can beat the chinese on their own turf. Wouldn't bet on it myself.

To be Apple's biggest market, the demand in China only needs to be bigger than the US. Apple doesn't have to have the most marketshare there, and they won't ever.

Do you know that Western luxury products are HIGHLY sought after by China's emerging wealthy and middle class? Everything from Audi to Cadillac, Gucci to Burberry. Have you seen the big flagship Apple Stores with long lines of Chinese consumers waiting for the next iPhone?

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post #79 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoobitron View Post

As much as I wanted iTunes Radio to be great, I still prefer Pandora. The music genome system it uses gives me exactly the kind of mix I'm looking for. Whatever algorithm iTunes uses just doesn't give me the mix I'm looking for. I really really wish they had purchased Pandora instead (don't know if that was ever an option). That would have ended all this right then and there. The music genome project is the key purchase there. It's genius, and Apple is supposed to be all about genius.

this.  Pandora has hit on the 'virtual program manager' in the genome system that is magically crowdsourcing and narrowcasting at the same time.   

 

But this...

 

I don't think iTunes Radio was the problem Beats was designed to solve.   I think it's all at the other end of the supply chain (music label relationship management).  If you're spending 10's of billions a year 'paying for the right to delivery' music from the labels, spending 2.5B to improve 'cost of goods'  (If Iovine can save Apple a Billion a Year against projected costs...  Deal pays for itself before Iovine's options vest) is a good thing (TM).

post #80 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


To be Apple's biggest market, the demand in China only needs to be bigger than the US. Apple doesn't have to have the most marketshare there, and they won't ever.

Do you know that Western luxury products are HIGHLY sought after by China's emerging wealthy and middle class? Everything from Audi to Cadillac, Gucci to Burberry. Have you seen the big flagship Apple Stores with long lines of Chinese consumers waiting for the next iPhone?

 

Agree to the 2nd part.  on the first part, there is no reason not to think that Apple develops the same sales stratification that it's seeing in the US.  70-50% of the top 40% of the income brackets.   And that drives 'want' down into the petite bourgeois strata

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