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Apple's 'arrogance' wrought mediocre iTunes Radio and led to Beats buy, report says - Page 3

post #81 of 141
iTunes radio is great I use it all the time. the song selection is really done by me because I checked "more like this" when I change it changes. who cares about the opinion of three ex-employees when millions of people choose iTunes radio.
post #82 of 141

ohhhh................... Apple is doomed. 

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post #83 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post

I'd like to think that even Tim Cook knows what Spotify is and if not then Eddy Cue & Team. To suggest that Apple management was unaware of the LIMITED competition out there in the streaming music market is like iCloud Team not knowing what BOX and Dropbox is.

 


I am convinced to "doers" at Apple itunes radio are very aware or competition, but I am also convinced the suits above them are completly clueless, and sadly they are the ones calling the shots. This will be consistent with what the article is reporting and the product that came out of it.

I have seen this so many times in corporations.
post #84 of 141
"The management in particular were pretty much tone-deaf in what Spotify was and that's why they're panicking now," one person said. "They didn't understand how Spotify worked, which is why they thought iTunes Radio would be a Spotify killer."

If this is even remotely true, the people who thought this were not only arrogant, but also stupid.

And iTunes radio isn't even available for most European countries... unlike Spotify.
post #85 of 141
"beats is known for their premium headphones..."

No, actually there is pretty much consensus that they suck.
post #86 of 141
The idea that Apple is "genius" is mostly hype. Steve drove the genius at Apple and tried to create a team that would continue that legacy. Trouble is over time this genius culture he tried to create will fade. Apple is a hardware company. Its revenue is generated mostly by iPhones. iPads and Macs. The software is used to tie it all together and is mostly free. (Iworks is free, MacOS/iOS is free) The services part is iTunes and Appstore. Obviously Apple is not genius at the services part except for the Apple store retail chain business. Cook is trying to leverage the ease of use and the WWDC was all about integration.This beats acquaistion is an attempt to boost iradio amongst other things. DON'T PANIC. The internet is really only commercially 10-15 years old, we are still at its very early days in its evolution. It is still shaking out Amazon/Google/MS/Netflix etc are all still jockeying for position. It will be fascinating to see who wins and who fades away.

Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.


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Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.


History reduce Apple Watch.... to a footnote in the annals of technology - Benjamin Frost Dec 2014



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post #87 of 141
So, herbapou, ClemyNX, you, along with Rogifan, are taking this joke of "news" story seriously?

And you want to be taken seriously? Have you looked at the original story on Buzzfeed?

All unnamed "sources." It smells of being completely made up. How could you possibly be so naive to be suckered in by such trash?
post #88 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

I find nothing mediocre about iTunes Radio. And at $25 a year for commercial free music, its a deal that nobody can beat. Spotify, Pandora both want that every month. This report is mediocre and doesn't really hold water. iTunes radio has already surpassed Spotify by miles. So I don't know what the whining is about but its unfounded and not true. The beats deal could bring more variety of music but I think iTunes Radio is just fine as it is.
Spotify is a completely different service to iTunes Radio. Spotify is to iTunes as Netflix is to your cable movie channel. Spotify is an on-demand music subscription service, with a catalogue that is almost as good as iTunes, it's worth paying for. By the way, Spotify also has 'radio stations', except you can add songs to playlists, sync them for offline use, and listen to them as much as you want. iTunes Radio is just a glorified radio station, like Pandora. One is not better than the other - they are different services for different needs. Spotify is worth paying $12 a month for to take my iTunes library on the road, and continue to add to it and listen to whatever I want, whenever I want.

One thing I don't really get is why the two are being compared like they are. Of course iTunes Radio surpassed Spotify. iTunes Radio is free and it is installed on everyone's phone. But as the two are different types of services, it's like suggesting that more people watch free-to-air TV than use YouTube. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant, because the comparison doesn't make sense.

Now that Apple owns Beats, they actually ARE competing with Spotify. iTunes Radio was and still is just another Pandora competitor.
post #89 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by simtub View Post

I'd like to think that even Tim Cook knows what Spotify is and if not then Eddy Cue & Team. To suggest that Apple management was unaware of the LIMITED competition out there in the streaming music market is like iCloud Team not knowing what BOX and Dropbox is.

 


I am convinced to "doers" at Apple itunes radio are very aware or competition, but I am also convinced the suits above them are completly clueless, and sadly they are the ones calling the shots. This will be consistent with what the article is reporting and the product that came out of it.

I have seen this so many times in corporations.

The leaders at Apple are "doers". They are highly involved. This ex employee probably worked in Retail.
post #90 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlaw View Post

"beats is known for their premium headphones..."

No, actually there is pretty much consensus that they suck.

Beats headphones have improved a little, but I would not recommend them at all. If you want a good pair of headphones, buy some V-Moda's. 

post #91 of 141
I'm kind of surprised AppleInsider bothered posting this tabloid BS trash. At least provide your own rebuttal or commentary on this garbage if you're going to bother regurgitating in on here. iTunes radio is in 3rd place, ahead of Spotify, so some "former employee" doesn't know what the iFCK they're talking about.
post #92 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post


Spotify is a completely different service to iTunes Radio. Spotify is to iTunes as Netflix is to your cable movie channel. Spotify is an on-demand music subscription service, with a catalogue that is almost as good as iTunes, it's worth paying for. By the way, Spotify also has 'radio stations', except you can add songs to playlists, sync them for offline use, and listen to them as much as you want. iTunes Radio is just a glorified radio station, like Pandora. One is not better than the other - they are different services for different needs. Spotify is worth paying $12 a month for to take my iTunes library on the road, and continue to add to it and listen to whatever I want, whenever I want.

One thing I don't really get is why the two are being compared like they are. Of course iTunes Radio surpassed Spotify. iTunes Radio is free and it is installed on everyone's phone. But as the two are different types of services, it's like suggesting that more people watch free-to-air TV than use YouTube. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant, because the comparison doesn't make sense.

Now that Apple owns Beats, they actually ARE competing with Spotify. iTunes Radio was and still is just another Pandora competitor.

 

No it's not.

 

iTunes match costs a lot less.

 

The free Spotify does f**k all in Australia (and other countries).

 

iTunes match works well, unless your library is full of crap you don't like which seems like a definition of insanity.

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post #93 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post
 

...headphones, buy some V-Moda's. 

 

Overpriced junk, like Skull Candy.

 

Sennheiser only get good above $200.

 

Beats have 72% of the over $100 headphone market, they are only considered junk by a small segment of, largely irrelevant, self important audiophiles.

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post #94 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

Acquiring beats to go after a younger generation?

Lol. The youth are into iTunes. Not Beats.

Andre is pretty old. And lovine... Ain't young.

I guess apple can fire back now with ethic diversity criticism.

Beats didn't seem all that successful with half a million subscribers that they bought when they acquired MOG. and limited to the U.S. Esp in light of iTunes' 800 million and international base.

Youth into iTunes? Not from my experience. I'm 20, I guess that's on the older end, but it seems iTunes is to streaming/on-demand what Facebook is to Twitter. Also note that Beats Music is BRAND NEW. iTunes is ancient. I still think the acquisition has more to do with the music service itself, and less to do with the brand name.
post #95 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

No it's not.

iTunes match costs a lot less.

The free Spotify does f**k all in Australia (and other countries).

iTunes match works well, unless your library is full of crap you don't like which seems like a definition of insanity.
I didn't once mention iTunes Match. I was talking about iTunes Radio. They are ALSO two different services.

Why would you quote me, then argue against something I didn't even mention?
post #96 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post


I didn't once mention iTunes Match. I was talking about iTunes Radio. They are ALSO two different services.

Why would you quote me, then argue against something I didn't even mention?

 

iTunes match + iTunes Radio, ad free experience for less than a third of the cost of Spotify.

 

So you haven't used the full experience.

 

Then there are the settings you can use in iTunes radio to create stations.

 

Identify a song with Shazam, open in iTr, create more by this artist or more like this.

 

Maybe it works differently in different countries.

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post #97 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

iTunes match + iTunes Radio, ad free experience for less than a third of the cost of Spotify.

So you haven't used the full experience.

Then there are the settings you can use in iTunes radio to create stations.

Identify a song with Shazam, open in iTr, create more by this artist or more like this.

Maybe it works differently in different countries.
I understand what iTunes Match is. It doesn't matter what it costs. It's completely different to Spotify.

With iTunes Match, I still have to own the song before I can listen to it. I still have to have an enormous music library. And what if I want to listen to an album immediately? I would have to buy it on iTunes.

With Spotify, I can just type in the song, or any album, or browse any of my playlists and listen straight away.

The 'full experience' assumes I have time and money to spend on a music library. Which I don't. It's cheaper to pay $12 a month than buy several $15 albums in a month. My Spotify library would cost thousands of dollars to purchase with iTunes. And iTunes Match is useful only if you have CDs or if you just pirate all your music. Or just to get rid of ads in iTunes Radio.
post #98 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post


I understand what iTunes Match is. It doesn't matter what it costs. It's completely different to Spotify.

With iTunes Match, I still have to own the song before I can listen to it. I still have to have an enormous music library. And what if I want to listen to an album immediately? I would have to buy it on iTunes.

With Spotify, I can just type in the song, or any album, or browse any of my playlists and listen straight away.

The 'full experience' assumes I have time and money to spend on a music library. Which I don't. It's cheaper to pay $12 a month than buy several $15 albums in a month. My Spotify library would cost thousands of dollars to purchase with iTunes. And iTunes Match is useful only if you have CDs or if you just pirate all your music. Or just to get rid of ads in iTunes Radio.

 

It's cheaper to buy iTunes match and upload torrented music if one so desired.

 

Just like music from any source has been able to be imported into iTunes for over a decade.

 

Can't search, hey.

 

 

 

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post #99 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post
 

Beats headphones have improved a little, but I would not recommend them at all. If you want a good pair of headphones, buy some V-Moda's. 

I like the B&W's. But I want a single cord like the more expensive one not a double cord on the less expensive one.

 
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post #100 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Overpriced junk, like Skull Candy.

 

Sennheiser only get good above $200.

 

Beats have 72% of the over $100 headphone market, they are only considered junk by a small segment of, largely irrelevant, self important audiophiles.

NO- junk is junk. See Samsung, Microsoft, Acer, etc, etc, etc.

 
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post #101 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Overpriced junk, like Skull Candy.

 

Sennheiser only get good above $200.

 

Beats have 72% of the over $100 headphone market, they are only considered junk by a small segment of, largely irrelevant, self important audiophiles.

 Dude, no way. V-moda's are used by a ton of musicians and DJ's in the studio. They are good headphones. Marketshare doesn't equal quality. Look at Samsung. Read all the professional negative reviews on Beats. They are overpriced junk. The people that like the Beats are younger people who like that over emphasized fake bass sound. 

post #102 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post
 

 Dude, no way. V-moda's are used by a ton of musicians and DJ's in the studio

At what price point?

 

$7-800?

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post #103 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


"Citing multiple anonymous sources, all the ladies claim SolipsismX is great in bed."


It must be true¡

Oooh do you have his number?

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post #104 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post


I understand what iTunes Match is. It doesn't matter what it costs. It's completely different to Spotify.

With iTunes Match, I still have to own the song before I can listen to it. I still have to have an enormous music library. And what if I want to listen to an album immediately? I would have to buy it on iTunes.

With Spotify, I can just type in the song, or any album, or browse any of my playlists and listen straight away.

The 'full experience' assumes I have time and money to spend on a music library. Which I don't. It's cheaper to pay $12 a month than buy several $15 albums in a month. My Spotify library would cost thousands of dollars to purchase with iTunes. And iTunes Match is useful only if you have CDs or if you just pirate all your music. Or just to get rid of ads in iTunes Radio.

 

 

I admit most of the music in my NAS comes from sharing with friends, with Spotify I now feel a little less guilty. I really like Spotify, it's crossed platform, something that iTunes Radio isn't and that I really need. The icing on the cake is that my kids mobile provider, Orange doesn't charge for data usage when using Spotify.

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post #105 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigybank View Post

I'm kind of surprised AppleInsider bothered posting this tabloid BS trash. At least provide your own rebuttal or commentary on this garbage if you're going to bother regurgitating in on here. iTunes radio is in 3rd place, ahead of Spotify, so some "former employee" doesn't know what the iFCK they're talking about.


Those numbers you are referring too are from a very small survey consisting of only 2,000 people in the US, it's accuracy is debatable, especially when almost every other survey on the matter contradicts it.


Edited by Relic - 6/7/14 at 4:37am
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post #106 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post

iTunes Radio streams music, the songs are selected by Apple's algorithms.

Spotify streams music, the songs are selected by me.

Which one do you think I prefer?

iTunes Radio.
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post #107 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

Perhaps the fact that ITunes Radio, which didn't play properly for me for the first six months (always skipped and stuttered even when on Fios), never plays anything I want to hear provoked this deal.

When you "shuffle" in itunes it's bad enough. You hear the same songs very often and over and over on a 10k library. It's a joke among those I know. Their algorithm for "random" isn't random, and if you hit 'play favorites more often' you don't hear any favorites. It's been broken for years.

The fact that they collect my music catalog, with ratings, and can't find a song I would like on iTunes Radio is literally the most monumental oversight in digital history. Besides I.P. Theft of course.

While were at it, let's talk about their algorithm for shuffling or randomly picking pictures for a screen saver from aperture...

I regularly shuffle my playlists in iTunes, and haven't experienced the problems you mention. I use smart playlists and set it to play songs that are rated five stars, have fewer than x plays plus ones I haven't listened to in over a year. That way, there is a good variety.
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post #108 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundvision View Post

Spotify has 4x as many free subscribers versus paid subscribers. I've used Spotify for years and do not pay for it, so it's very much a free service. Just like iTunes Match, you can pay to remove ads, but that's about where the similarities end.

I too pay for iTunes Match.

The similarities end when you click the "o.k. I agree" button so Apple can get your song data and not play a single song you want to hear. Even if you've five stared 10,000 songs you won't hear one.

I like the privacy stuff, however I did hit the "I agree button" for genius to read my songs. It's a waste. There's apparently two things at Apple that are not communicating with each other, at least on the iTunes Radio, and itunes front.


I want to hear what everyone else is five staring in their library. Isn't that what we agreed to?

Eddy? You there?

It also gets pretty sick when you plug in your iPhone and it takes 45 minutes to sync your iPhone over a USB 3 connection because it's syncing "genius data". When you look at it in itunes it looks like your syncing your entire library, only with no benefit.

I say USB 3 because there's no way to plug one into a thunderbolt port directly.

I've had your syncing freeze. If it happens again, just stop the sync, quit iTunes and start again. It fixes the problem and syncs speedily.
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post #109 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

I too pay for iTunes Match.

The similarities end when you click the "o.k. I agree" button so Apple can get your song data and not play a single song you want to hear.

iTunes Match plays every song I want to hear because they are MY SONGS. They all show up on all my devices and I can play from the cloud to store them locally by playlist, album, artist, or just an individual song here or there.

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post #110 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianr4666 View Post

This story is wrought with error. When WSJ broke down the deal, it was just the opposite price 500 million for Beats Music and 2.5 billion for Beats Electronics. How hard is it to do some fact checking?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/apple-paying-just-under-500-million-for-beats-music-streaming-service-1401403287

Looks like Rupert buying the WSG has had an effect on making it more suitable for lining puppy pens.

post #111 of 141

I have no idea what these people are blathering about.

 

I'll be the first to criticize when Apple screws up.

 

But this isn't one of those cases. 

 

iTunes Radio kicks Spotify's and Pandora's asses.  It's a MUCH MUCH better service.

 

iTunes has a cleaner interface, it's easier to use, and it auto-picks bands I don't hate as long as I set a good starting point.  No, I'm afraid they're going to make a horrible mess of it with this stupid Beats acquisition, but at least for now iTunes Radio wipes the floor with every other streaming service.

post #112 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post

I have no idea what these people are blathering about.

I'll be the first to criticize when Apple screws up.

But this isn't one of those cases. 

iTunes Radio kicks Spotify's and Pandora's asses.  It's a MUCH MUCH better service.

iTunes has a cleaner interface, it's easier to use, and it auto-picks bands I don't hate as long as I set a good starting point.  No, I'm afraid they're going to make a horrible mess of it with this stupid Beats acquisition, but at least for now iTunes Radio wipes the floor with every other streaming service.

I really like Spotify but I have to admit I haven't really used iTunes Radio all that much, I did play with it though for at least a couple of days and wasn't impressed, Spotify just offered so much more. Plus I have never been a real fan of iTunes anyway. I think it has a lot do with that I use other OS's so I'm a real fan of cross platform applications. I can run Spotify on Linux, Windows, OSX, iOS, Android, W8 Mobile and of course the web for those times I'm using my ChromeBox,Sparc and SGI workstation, something iTunes Radio doesn't offer. Not to mention the amount of apps that has integrated Spotify into them like Djay or Pacemaker for iOS, again something that iTunes Radio doesn't offer, so you don't need to use their interface if your unhappy with it for any reason. There are also third party apps that connect to Spotify's services that have completely rewritten the user interface for an entirely new experience like Spotlite for W8. You say you don't like Spotify, fine but saying that iTunes Radio kicks its ass is not a very fair statement as Spotify is infinitely more flexible. If your developer you can use Spotifys API's to make your own music player and use whatever interface that fits your fancy, which again iTunes Radio doesn't offer. In Europe quite a few mobile providers have Spotify as an additional service, not only are they charging less than the normal monthly fee but are also not penalizing people's data while using it, so you can listen to as much music as you want and won't see a single data charge and again something that iTunes doesn't offer. The biggest thing though and this really seperates Spotify from iTunes Radio, is that you can download music for offline listening, fast forward a song, skip as many songs as you want and it doesn't stop playing after 2 hours if there is no activity. So maybe your being a little too biased here, just saying.
Edited by Relic - 6/7/14 at 1:29pm
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post #113 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

iTunes Match plays every song I want to hear because they are MY SONGS. They all show up on all my devices and I can play from the cloud to store them locally by playlist, album, artist, or just an individual song here or there.

True, my mistake.

I was confused between iTunes Radio and iTunes Match. What I meant to say originally, if I hadn't, is why don't they use all the "Genius Data" that's constantly syncing between my devices to improve the song selection in iTunes Radio.

Also, using iTunes Match only works so long as you have some type of connection. Any type of connection. Thinking it's a great way to free up space on a device is not probably what it's meant for. I learned that the first time I used air travel after thinking the service was great. After that I disabled it on my devices, upgraded a few times and ran into the same problem while on a train. Now iTunes Match is I'd disabled on everything except my "media mini" which has everything media based I own on it anyway.

Maybe it's great for some, but it got me twice while traveling for extended periods with absolutely NO media. Also, I have a ton of songs that are not matched that I imported from my CD's. So personally I couldn't say that I could listen to ALL of my songs using the service.

I still have the service. It just renewed on me last month I believe, but I don't use it for much. Luckily the cost is negligible.

If it works for you then great! :o)
post #114 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

Also, using iTunes Match only works so long as you have some type of connection. Any type of connection.

We've been over this. iTunes Match lets you have local DLs of any of your content which means you don't need a constant internet connection.

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post #115 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

We've been over this. iTunes Match lets you have local DLs of any of your content which means you don't need a constant internet connection.

I concede. Perhaps it's changed since the las time I took advantage of that particular service.
post #116 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

I concede. Perhaps it's changed since the las time I took advantage of that particular service.

it hasn't changed. It's doing what it's done since day one, give or take some growing pains when people first tried to upload their iTunes libraries to Apple's server.

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post #117 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

it hasn't changed. It's doing what it's done since day one, give or take some growing pains when people first tried to upload their iTunes libraries to Apple's server.

O.k. Then.

Well I still have to thank everyone here, because I avoided it for the first year because of comments on this and other sites. 1smile.gif
post #118 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

I concede. Perhaps it's changed since the las time I took advantage of that particular service.

it hasn't changed. It's doing what it's done since day one, give or take some growing pains when people first tried to upload their iTunes libraries to Apple's server.

 

I suspect Silver Shadow got caught out because when you first turn on iTunes Match on an iOS device, it removes all your local media and replaces it with what you have in iTunes Match. Maybe he didn't realise that you can then re-download everything if you so wish and still use iTunes Match.

 

I do the same as you - keep my playlist of favourite tracks downloaded and the rest in the cloud.

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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #119 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post

O.k. Then.

Well I still have to thank everyone here, because I avoided it for the first year because of comments on this and other sites. 1smile.gif

I didn't jump on board at first. I'm not sure when I realized that iTunes Match could save me nearly hundreds of dollars per year but when it did that was it. I just hope it's popular enough that they don't get rid of it. I'd even be willing to pay more for it, up to about $100 per year, with the current capacity limited, is when I'd then just decide to buy a higher capacity device (and sell that higher capacity device a year later).

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post #120 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I suspect Silver Shadow got caught out because when you first turn on iTunes Match on an iOS device, it removes all your local media and replaces it with what you have in iTunes Match. Maybe he didn't realise that you can then re-download everything if you so wish and still use iTunes Match.

I do the same as you - keep my playlist of favourite tracks downloaded and the rest in the cloud.

Perhaps. It is annoying that it's not intelligent enough to figure out which tracks to keep or even ask you if you wish to ditch the local tracks.

A couple times I've gotten some glitches with iTM. A couple times double tracks showed up. This requirs killing iTM and then signing back in and re-downloading my popular playlists. And every now and then if I'm playing an album where I have some local and some cloud tracks it will skip over the cloud tracks (which is not how I have my iTM settings). That requires killing and restarting the Music app. Neither one a big deal but it would be nice not to have those issues at all.

My biggest complaint with the Music app is that I can't delete tracks from it. I can delete the local track but I can't delete the iTM track listing from the server. I have to give it One Star and then when I'm back at my Mac find it in iTunes under my One Star playlist (which I have specifically for this) then Option-click on the track, scroll to the poorly named Show In Playlist » Music — which is the main library as you can't delete a track from a Playlist — and then Option-click again, choose delete, and then delete from iCloud when the window appears. The traditional "PC" is no longer our digital hub but they haven't caught up with that. This is something else I think they need to have a portal for on iCloud.com

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