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European Union announces tax evasion investigations of Apple, Fiat & Starbucks - Page 2

post #41 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post


It is 100% legally right and not at all morally wrong or ambiguous. If the EU does not like the laws THEY have created, they need to grow a pair and fix them.

 

That is what i said.

 

 

Apple is being used for political gain, Brussels is not interested in fixing the holes.

Who finance their parties?

post #42 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

 The company holds the vast majority of its cash overseas to avoid paying high repatriation tax rates to bring that money back to the U.S.

There is no repatriation and no back to U.S.
That would imply the money had been in the U.S. before and was then brought overseas.

post #43 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Interesting fact:

World hunger could be totally eradicated if the United States ALONE were to reduce it's yearly defence budget by 5%.

Not really. See, there are people already trying to feed hungry children in Africa, Asia, India, but the aid workers keep getting murdered, kidnapped, raped or arrested. The only solution to world hunger is education. And that includes realizing that you should not have children if you cannot support them.

One, India is in Asia, the last time I looked. Two, I must have missed the news that there were lots of aid workers tying to feed hungry children in India (leave alone their getting kidnapped, raped, and arrested).

 

Talk about a pathetically homogenized and ethnocentric worldview.... 

post #44 of 108
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

As previously mentioned in this thread, Apple are being investigated for tax evasion. That means that the EU believes, rightly or wrongly, that Apple hasn't followed the law.

 

Good for them. I guess they get to waste money on nothing.

 

Originally Posted by GTR View Post
World hunger could be totally eradicated if the United States ALONE were to reduce it's yearly defence budget by 5%.

 

Give a man a fish…

 

Originally Posted by GTR View Post
World hunger could be totally eradicated if the United States reduced everyone to 0%.

 

I’m an expansionist myself, but global genocide is, how we’d say… “a bit much”.

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post #45 of 108
Destroyer of wealth generated through legal trade. The ruling class never change in human history.
post #46 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Interesting fact:

World hunger could be totally eradicated if the United States ALONE were to reduce it's yearly defence budget by 5%.

The problem with that theory is the assumption that money can simply be thrown at a problem to fix it, which is patently untrue.

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post #47 of 108
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Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The problem with that theory is the assumption that money can simply be thrown at a problem to fix it, which is patently untrue.

Of course not, you have to throw food at them.

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post #48 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElectricChairRepairman View Post

Destroyer of wealth generated through legal trade. The ruling class never change in human history.

 

 

Perhaps IF both you and me were part of the 1%, we would behave the same as they do.

No?

 

In any trade, when forces are unbalanced, guess who will win? 

You get a monopoly.

Greed and illusion of superiority is a human thing.

post #49 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


The problem with that theory is the assumption that money can simply be thrown at a problem to fix it, which is patently untrue.

 

 

When did money was throw at anyone?

 

It was the Marshal plan that rebuild Europe after the Big war.

The USA Education BILL  after the Big War created its massive Middle class ( Do not forget the USA used to be the most socialist country, it even was the first one to tax the wealth ).

It was the USA federal government that saved Florida from it’s housing crash, a fiscal consolidation that the EU lacks, hence its economic crisis lingers.

 

Were those plans money thrown, or just good plans?


Edited by Ochyming - 6/11/14 at 10:18am
post #50 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Of course not, you have to throw food at them.

LOL!

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post #51 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


When did money was throw at anyone?

It was the Marshal plan that rebuild Europe after the Big war.
The USA Education BILL  after the Big War created its massive Middle class ( Do not forget the USA used to be the most socialist country, it even was the first one to tax the wealth ).
It was the USA federal government that saved Florida from it’s housing crash, a fiscal consolidation that the EU lacks, hence its economic crisis lingers.

Were those plans money thrown, or just good plans?

I cannot respond simply because I cannot understand the question(s).

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post #52 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Interesting fact:

World hunger could be totally eradicated if the United States ALONE were to reduce it's yearly defence budget by 5%.

 

That's stupid.  

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post #53 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


The problem with that theory is the assumption that money can simply be thrown at a problem to fix it, which is patently untrue.

 

 

Right Wing’s Rubbish.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


I cannot respond simply because I cannot understand the question(s).

 

 

That was irony!

I did throw facts at you.

Plans that required Millions to resolve HUGE problems.

 

Why Banks lend ( throw ) money?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


The problem with that theory is the assumption that money can simply be thrown at a problem to fix it, which is patently untrue.
post #54 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
 

 

That's stupid.  

 

WHY?

 

You should say that to Aasif Mandvi Third World Health Care - Knoxville, Tennessee Edition )

post #55 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post

WHY?

You should say that to Aasif Mandvi Third World Health Care - Knoxville, Tennessee Edition )
The actor/comedian??
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post #56 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Of course not, you have to throw food at them.

no you have to throw them already prepared food.

post #57 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrayven View Post
 

 

Normal companies? If you're talking about local companies, local taxes are still paid.. sales tax, employee income taxes, health, etc. The issue is that ANY international company can pick what country they base funds out of.. and that country gets the taxes..

 

Issue is. who gets the money? Europe? Germany? huh? What people don't understand, products sold by Apple are already paying local taxes and all we're talking about is the 'profit' repatriation tax... it's not really an easy answer.. because if they just pay everyone.. the mob of meme would tax companies into the ground.. 

 

It's all about the repatriation taxes.. USA is at 30% .. which is stupid!!! next highest? 15%.. Canada is under 10%.. This is a global economy, you set the rules, Ireland plays by them keeping a low rate(2%), then you bitch about it? pfffff.. The real issue is leveling the playing field with this rate.. 

 

And yet I can see the EU punishing Apple and other companies for following the LAW.. Don't like it, change it.. and yet, they can't.. because they cannot AGREE on enforcing rates on other sovereign nations, killing their right to control their own rates. hahaha! So, here we are, targeting companies and blaming them for political stupidity! 

 

Personally, I think USA should set it to about 10% or less.. but getting congress to do anything these days that makes sense is nearly impossible. We compete against these countries, yet we're at an ego-blown 30%

I'd agree to that if we got rid of any and all loop holes.... and do a cash basis accounting for tax purposes. 

post #58 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


The actor/comedian??

Doesn't matter who the messenger is if the facts are accurate. Is his argument logical? The better question would be are his facts wrong? Worrying about the individual is not a counter to a valid argument or concern.

post #59 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
 

Tax evasion rather than tax avoidance? Interesting...

 

It is the author's misleading clickbait drama queening.  The EU is investigating the deals that allow companies to legally avoid taxes in order to see if they can fix the broken system.  No companies are charged with anything.

post #60 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


The actor/comedian??

 

 

Really?

Don’t you know what an hyperLink is?

post #61 of 108
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I’m an expansionist myself, but global genocide is, how we’d say… “a bit much”.

That last comment was not serious.

1wink.gif
post #62 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post
 

 

WHY?

 

You should say that to Aasif Mandvi Third World Health Care - Knoxville, Tennessee Edition )

 

If you think that statement could possibly be true, then you're part of the problem.  You're claiming that if the United States reduced its defense budget by about 40 billion dollars, we could end world hunger.  Laughably stupid in so many ways.  

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post #63 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


Really?
Don’t you know what an hyperLink is?

I do but perhaps you may not. What do you get when you click on the red text link that's his name? 1rolleyes.gif
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post #64 of 108
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Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Doesn't matter who the messenger is if the facts are accurate. Is his argument logical? The better question would be are his facts wrong? Worrying about the individual is not a counter to a valid argument or concern.

I 100% agree with you too. If the argument is valid and the facts correct then who the messenger is doesn't much matter. 1wink.gif
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post #65 of 108
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I do but perhaps you may not. What do you get when you click on the red text link that's his name? 1rolleyes.gif

 

 

:lol:: Funny guy, context is everything. What do you get when you click on Third World Health Care - Knoxville, Tennessee Edition?

post #66 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


lol.gif : Funny guy, context is everything. What do you get when you click on Third World Health Care - Knoxville, Tennessee Edition?

A link to a comedy show (The Daily Show) where that same actor/comedian from the red hyperlink performs.
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post #67 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


A link to a comedy show (The Daily Show) where that same actor/comedian from the red hyperlink performs.

 

 

:D: Indeed!

:lol:: Context, context. 

:): Are you lost or what?

post #68 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


1biggrin.gif : Indeed!
lol.gif : Context, context. 
1smile.gif : Are you lost or what?

You act as tho you disagree with something I asked or said but I've no idea what it is. 1confused.gif I asked if the reference was to an actor/comedian, confirming that was the OP's intent. So. . . . ??

So yes, you have me completely lost
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post #69 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Interesting fact:

World hunger could be totally eradicated if the United States ALONE were to reduce it's yearly defence budget by 5%.

Even more interesting is this "fact" is not a fact and is not based in reality. World hunger is much more a situation of logistics and corruption than it is money.
post #70 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post


Even more interesting is this "fact" is not a fact and is not based in reality. World hunger is much more a situation of logistics and corruption than it is money.

 

We aren't even there yet. The claim was that an equivalent $40 Billion expenditure would solve world hunger.  In fact, not even that...the claim was the there mere act of the U.S. reducing our defense budget by that amount would solve the problem.  There wasn't even any follow-up on where that money would go!

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post #71 of 108
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Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



If the law specifically refers to Blu-ray and DVD media then Apple isn't breaking any laws. It would be the same for Blu-ray and DVDs if the law was written in the 80s to specifically refer to VHS and Betamax.

 



Maybe Apple is "technically" respecting the law, but its still a loophole. I dont know the way the law was writing so its still possible Apple is illegal, depending on the way the law was done. Either the law is to specific and mention medias or its clear and applies to movies and tv content in genenal but is not "enforce" in the digital world.

As far as I am concerned, movies and tv shows should be force to include spanish/portugese/french/english soundtracks on all movies sold in north and south america.

 

I'm afraid that if movies and tv shows were forced to have all those different language soundtracks, the sound would become an unintelligible mess. Trying to listen to four different languages at once? P-lease!

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post #72 of 108
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Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Interesting fact:

World hunger could be totally eradicated if the United States ALONE were to reduce it's yearly defence budget by 5%.

Don't know. But it might be same reason some people post here in every thread saying the Beats headphones suck, over and over again.

 

If Apple hadn't bought Beats, they would be able to give every man, woman, child and donkey one iPhone each for the rest of their life. And that's no exaggeration.

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post #73 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Interesting fact:

World hunger could be totally eradicated if the United States ALONE were to reduce it's yearly defence budget by 5%.

Not really. See, there are people already trying to feed hungry children in Africa, Asia, India, but the aid workers keep getting murdered, kidnapped, raped or arrested. The only solution to world hunger is education. And that includes realizing that you should not have children if you cannot support them.

 

 

So poor people should not be allowed to have children? So when you're old and decrepit, you can look forward to no-one looking after you and die lonely, unloved and forgotten? 

 

Got it.

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post #74 of 108
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Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Corporation tax in the US is not 10%, so why should US companies get beneficial tax treatment from conducting business outside of the US?

 

Why? Because there would be some form of "double taxation". You don't want to be taxed twice, or arbitrarily, on the same income. Rather reminds me of why USA split from UK in the first place!

 

So, different ways exist to reduce your taxable incomes legally -- and whether one would call them "loopholes" or not, they legally exist.

 

A relative of mine lived in the Ukraine for many years. He noted that if a corporation dutifully paid all the taxes that were on the books, they would be paying more than 100% of their income! Impossible. And yet, that was what the "law" called for. So, you can also bet there were all sorts of legal (and illegal) loopholes. I realize that is extreme, and 100% is a little different than, say, 30%; but the point is that a nation could bear to re-examine what they are asking if very few constituents are meeting the desired level of commitment.


Edited by krabbelen - 6/11/14 at 2:03pm
post #75 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post

Why? Because there would be some form of "double taxation". You don't want to be taxed twice, or arbitrarily, on the same income. Rather reminds me of why USA split from UK in the first place!
It is my understanding that any foreign corporation tax paid is written off the US repatriation tax bill as a credit. So there is no double taxation. A corporation should never pay more than the 35%.

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post #76 of 108
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


AFAIK you've misunderstood then. According to records Apple pays virtually no company taxes on the profits from hardware sales in France, Italy, Spain and other EU countries. Because Apple has assigned certain IP to it's Irish subsidiary it collects licensing/royalty fees on products sold in the EU using that intellectual property with that money flowing to Ireland where technically the corporate tax rate is 12.5% (not 2%). Worse at least two of the three Ireland-resident but Apple-controlled companies don't even pay taxes to Ireland as they say they have no tax residency there nor anyplace else in the world.

 

Are you sure all that IP transfer business is, in fact, what is happening in Apple's case? Sure, that is what would be happening in the *typical* "Irish-flim-flam-with-a-Dutch-sandwich" or whatever it is called. But, I thought Apple had basically denied doing that specifically?

 

My immediate thought is that it is much more straightforward:

When purchases are made throughout Europe at a physical Apple Store or Reseller, which are physically located on the ground in various countries, then those sales would be booked at location and the income taxable in that location...

 

BUT, if the purchase is made online, as is most often the case, then the "store" doing the selling is based in Ireland and the product or service originates there. Apple's Irish presence isn't merely a PO Box and a re-routed phone number for some shell company, it is a large, physical operation.

 

Most sales are made online; few countries even have a physical Apple Store, or just got one. Therefore, most European income is under Irish taxation and not the country where the buyer resides. (And obviously Apple and others chose Ireland for a reason, just as US-based corporations choose a state). You add up all the online sales across the whole of Europe, and the local sales made within any one country (even the UK) pale into insignificance.


Edited by krabbelen - 6/11/14 at 2:46pm
post #77 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

 

How is unrealistic?  Companies already report their figures to the countries that they operate in, so what is unrealistic about those figures being combined for all wholly-owned companies in a group?  The numbers exist, adding them together is not only not unrealistic, it's not even particularly hard!  Breaking it down country-by-country might be tricky if you wanted to take that approach for unitary taxation, but that's what auditors are for (I also favour much harsher rules for auditors to comply with).

 

A little bit of cooperation, a well policed companies-register and record of ownership, and some carrots and sticks applied in the form of law.  There you have it, not a problem.

 

Don't see what "the principles of the free market" or the nature of capital have to do with anything.  We're talking about taxation which is, by definition, a distortion of the free market.  Capital also flows where the law says it has to flow, when the law does so.

 

Unrealistic, because it will never happen politically.  Contrary to free market principles by stating the right to tax income earned outside the United States in business transactions having nothing to do with the United States.  

 

 

 

 

That is an option, and is a race-to-the-bottom recipe for disaster.

 

 

 

 

A race to the bottom---by removing obstacles for investment?  WTF?  

 

 

Another option is to remove the alternatives and for state tax authorities to show some backbone.  Demand country-by-country, or demand repatriation, either are good, but the middle ground we're currently in is most definitely bad.

 

 

You seem to love when governments "demand" things.  I don't think a lack of backbone is the issue.  It's stupid, anti-business investment policy that's the issue.  

 

 

Is it the intention of the law?  No, the intention is that they repatriate, the law just wasn't made robust enough to ensure that happens.  So change the law so that it does or come up with an alternative.

 

In a way, yes.  Ireland has tax laws that attract business.  So does Texas, which is attracting business all over the place.  

 

 

 

 

I'm not talking about international tax law, I'm talking about US tax law.  And hopefully other countries as well, but since we're talking about Apple let's start with the US.

 

And it really isn't all that complicated.  The money men would have you think that it is, to stop inconvenient questions, but it's not beyond the comprehension of average people.

 

 

No, you wave a pen over a tax bill and get a presidential signature on a proper system that holds all kinds of companies to the same mark.

 

 

US tax law is international.  And yes, it's extremely complicated.  That's why Apple and other corporations spend millions on attorneys and accountants.  In fact, that complexity is part of the problem.  If we had a sane corporate tax policy in this country, we'd never have this.  

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post #78 of 108
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


What a complete arsehole of a post. So poor people should not be allowed to have children? So when you're old and decrepit, you can look forward to no-one looking after you and die lonely, unloved and forgotten? 

Got it.

Firstly, the world can't provide for the exponentially growing number of humans forever. Complaining about being alone blah blah is just selfish on a global basis.

Secondly it's nothing to do with wealth, in many African countries there simply isn't enough fertile land to provide food for all the inhabitants no matter how much money people have. Too many humans, not enough space. That won't be helped by pumping out even more kids at rates much faster than developed countries. The kids often die from malnutrition and disease way before the parents gets "old and decrepit" anyway, so not only do you die old and decrepit, you die knowing your poor child had a terrible life of disease and hunger.
post #79 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

3) Every now and then the term "spirit of the law" crops up. This means nothing. You might as well say that actual spirits have whispered into the lawmakers' ear to tell them its meaning.

That, or they took the laws mixed them with yeast, fermented, then distilled into a 'spirit of the law'. lol.gif
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post #80 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post

Are you sure all that IP transfer business is, in fact, what is happening in Apple's case? Sure, that is what would be happening in the *typical* "Irish-flim-flam-with-a-Dutch-sandwich" or whatever it is called. But, I thought Apple had basically denied doing that specifically?

If you doubt what I wrote just search up the facts for yourself. Do a websearch with the terms "Apple IP Ireland royalties". I think you'll dicover I was pretty accurate.
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