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Amazon halts preorders of Warner Bros. Blu-rays & DVDs in latest contract dispute - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


This is why people think you troll sometimes- you make a response specifically to get a reaction and bait.

He didn't say Blu-ray was better, worse, Less expensive, more expensive, more convenient, less convenient, etc.
He simply said optimum quality for sound and video- which can't be disputed. Regardless of if someone can or can't tell the difference is unconsequential- but what he said is still true. And I def. Prefer it for certain movies (not all)

I agree.   When I want the ultimate in quality (not that Blu-ray is perfect) for a film I'm going to watch more than once, I buy Blu-ray.   I'm realistic enough to understand that physical formats will eventually disappear, but that doesn't mean they're not better.   There are only a few cases where consumers chose quality over convenience.   Just because Apple chose not to support it doesn't mean it's not a technically superior format.  Of course if you're watching on an iPhone, iPad or even a computer screen, it probably doesn't make much difference.  At small sizes, even SD looks acceptable.  

 

As for Amazon, it doesn't really bother me that you can't pre-order titles from the companies they're in dispute with.  What counts is whether they'll make the titles available at the time they're released.    If they don't, then I agree that they're abusing their power and I also agree with those who feel that the publishers and distributors should take a strong stand and pull ALL their titles from Amazon.   There'd be some short-term hurt, but they'd be much better off in the long term as consumers would have to go to other sites or (gasp!) an actual physical retail store.  It would help to kill Amazon's arrogance and if people got in the habit of ordering elsewhere, it would reduce their dominance.  But the publishers are probably too chicken to pull this off.  

post #42 of 71
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post
This is why people think you troll sometimes- you make a response specifically to get a reaction and bait.

 

How about “a response specifically to get someone to try to prove their point” instead?

 
He simply said optimum quality for sound and video- which can't be disputed.

 

So proof, then? HE doesn’t have any. Maybe you do. Saying it can’t be disputed doesn’t make it true.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post
A Blu-ray is the media where you get optimum quality in image and sound. 

 

It is my understanding that Blu-ray can allow for greater data storage, and can play 1080p resolution at up to 60 fps, whereas DVD was limited to 480p and 25 fps.  I presume these limits are the result of the specification speed of rotation and the wavelength of light (blue allowing for a tighter arrangement of pits in the disc.)  That said, I see no reason to expect a guarantee that the source data will be better compressed on a Blu-ray compatible disc, vs. a standard DVD. In other words, the compressed data could be ripped from a DVD and burned to a Blu-Ray.  And there will be absolutely no improvement in picture quality or sound.  Similarly, I see no reason to expect that a 1080p Blu-ray disc of "I Love Lucy" would be at all superior to a 480p DVD of the same program--because the source material is of still lesser quality.  Heck, even a Betamax videotape is capable of higher quality than that source material.

 

So I dispute your statement on two counts: first, you do not necessarily get a better image or sound, even though it is possible with modern digital transfers, and second, I don't believe you get anything that is "optimum".  It is potentially better, yes.  But "optimum" leaves no further room for improvement.  And I think forthcoming 4k video will quickly demonstrate that.

post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


This is why people think you troll sometimes- you make a response specifically to get a reaction and bait.

He didn't say Blu-ray was better, worse, Less expensive, more expensive, more convenient, less convenient, etc.
He simply said optimum quality for sound and video- which can't be disputed. Regardless of if someone can or can't tell the difference is unconsequential- but what he said is still true. And I def. Prefer it for certain movies (not all)

The correct response is immediately below these words.

post #45 of 71

Good thing the DoJ is protecting consumers and Amazon from Apple.

/s

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- Gordon Hinckley

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You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiam View Post

So Apple gets slapped around for trying to break open Amazon's monopoly. Now Amazon is using that monopoly to control market pricing and availability and the government looks the other way. Have I got it right?

Last I checked Apple doesn't sell DVDs, so what monopoly were they trying to break?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

It is my understanding that Blu-ray can allow for greater data storage, and can play 1080p resolution at up to 60 fps, whereas DVD was limited to 480p and 25 fps.  I presume these limits are the result of the specification speed of rotation and the wavelength of light (blue allowing for a tighter arrangement of pits in the disc.)  That said, I see no reason to expect a guarantee that the source data will be better compressed on a Blu-ray compatible disc, vs. a standard DVD. In other words, the compressed data could be ripped from a DVD and burned to a Blu-Ray.  And there will be absolutely no improvement in picture quality or sound.  Similarly, I see no reason to expect that a 1080p Blu-ray disc of "I Love Lucy" would be at all superior to a 480p DVD of the same program--because the source material is of still lesser quality.  Heck, even a Betamax videotape is capable of higher quality than that source material.

So I dispute your statement on two counts: first, you do not necessarily get a better image or sound, even though it is possible with modern digital transfers, and second, I don't believe you get anything that is "optimum".  It is potentially better, yes.  But "optimum" leaves no further room for improvement.  And I think forthcoming 4k video will quickly demonstrate that.

On a old show the source material might be film which has infinite resolution because it's pixel-less.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

On a old show the source material might be film which has infinite resolution because it's pixel-less.

 

*cough*

grain size

*cough*

post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by stompy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


This is why people think you troll sometimes- you make a response specifically to get a reaction and bait.

He didn't say Blu-ray was better, worse, Less expensive, more expensive, more convenient, less convenient, etc.
He simply said optimum quality for sound and video- which can't be disputed. Regardless of if someone can or can't tell the difference is unconsequential- but what he said is still true. And I def. Prefer it for certain movies (not all)

The correct response is immediately below these words.

 

Admit defeat and accept that Tallest Skil was right.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #50 of 71
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Admit defeat and accept that Tallest Skil was right.

 

I don’t recall saying anything that could be considered right or wrong. Just that what someone else did call ‘right’ may not be.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

there's nothing stopping you ordering it once it has been released. Just no ability to pre - order.

It costs more.  Pre-orders are discounted.

post #52 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

*cough*
grain size
*cough*

That can be removed during the digital scan.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

On a old show the source material might be film which has infinite resolution because it's pixel-less.

Oh you did not just go there. Are you prepared to face what you've unleashed? Better check the definition of infinite before answering in the affirmative... (Now is your chance to backpedal and save face)

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Admit defeat and accept that Tallest Skil was right.

I don’t recall saying anything that could be considered right or wrong. Just that what someone else did call ‘right’ may not be.

Sure. I just couldn't resist the gift that the other poster presented.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

On a old show the source material might be film which has infinite resolution because it's pixel-less.

Oh you did not just go there. Are you prepared to face what you've unleashed? Better check the definition of infinite before answering in the affirmative... (Now is your chance to backpedal and save face)

He's right, though, in a sense. Like vinyl is infinitely better than digital because everything is there.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Oh you did not just go there. Are you prepared to face what you've unleashed? Better check the definition of infinite before answering in the affirmative... (Now is your chance to backpedal and save face)

I wrote that for the lack of a better term. Film wasn't without its drawbacks. Cheap film caused a picture to look 'grainy', but digital scan in a 1080 P conversion can fix that. Have you not seen a 'remastered' old movie look surprisingly good?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

A bag of hurt.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Dude I usually appreciate your level of knowledge, but you're wrong here. Blue Ray blows HD streaming out of the water.
post #58 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How about “a response specifically to get someone to try to prove their point” instead?

So proof, then? HE doesn’t have any. Maybe you do. Saying it can’t be disputed doesn’t make it true.
Go watch a blue ray movie on a panny plasma and you'll have your proof. I doubt you'd believe what anyone writes here, so if figure it out for yourself
post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
 

So I dispute your statement on two counts: first, you do not necessarily get a better image or sound, even though it is possible with modern digital transfers, and second, I don't believe you get anything that is "optimum".  It is potentially better, yes.  But "optimum" leaves no further room for improvement.  And I think forthcoming 4k video will quickly demonstrate that.

 

You are correct. Encoding is independent of storage format. The BDMV spec gives no guarantee on quality whatsoever. Anyone who reads Blu-Ray movie reviews on Amazon, will see plenty of disappointing studio releases on Blu-Ray. I expect anyone who professes to care about "optimum video and sound quality" would know that. Now Sony is marketing "Mastered in 4K" Blu-Ray discs that are nothing more than regular HD, which begs the question: if Blu-Ray was already "optimum" why does Sony need a "Mastered in 4K" version? Is it more than optimum? (Of course, it's all just marketing drivel. As is the whole "optimum" hooey.)

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #60 of 71
Originally Posted by rgh71 View Post
Dude I usually appreciate your level of knowledge, but you're wrong here. Blue Ray blows HD streaming out of the water.

 

I never said otherwise. In fact, off the top of my head, I’ll agree with you! 

 

Originally Posted by rgh71 View Post
Go watch a blue ray movie on a panny plasma and you'll have your proof. I doubt you'd believe what anyone writes here, so if figure it out for yourself

 

That’s not really the statement being made, though. 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


He's right, though, in a sense. Like vinyl is infinitely better than digital because everything is there.

 

Reality doesn't have an infinite resolution either.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

How about “a response specifically to get someone to try to prove their point” instead?

 

So proof, then? HE doesn’t have any. Maybe you do. Saying it can’t be disputed doesn’t make it true.

I don't have to prove anything to you because your obviously ignorant to fact or just plain ignorant.

Disprove me then.

 
Where's the new Apple TV?
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post #63 of 71
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post
I don't have to prove anything to you

 

That’s funny. Opinion ignored!

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

It is my understanding that Blu-ray can allow for greater data storage, and can play 1080p resolution at up to 60 fps, whereas DVD was limited to 480p and 25 fps.  I presume these limits are the result of the specification speed of rotation and the wavelength of light (blue allowing for a tighter arrangement of pits in the disc.)  That said, I see no reason to expect a guarantee that the source data will be better compressed on a Blu-ray compatible disc, vs. a standard DVD. In other words, the compressed data could be ripped from a DVD and burned to a Blu-Ray.  And there will be absolutely no improvement in picture quality or sound.  Similarly, I see no reason to expect that a 1080p Blu-ray disc of "I Love Lucy" would be at all superior to a 480p DVD of the same program--because the source material is of still lesser quality.  Heck, even a Betamax videotape is capable of higher quality than that source material.

So I dispute your statement on two counts: first, you do not necessarily get a better image or sound, even though it is possible with modern digital transfers, and second, I don't believe you get anything that is "optimum".  It is potentially better, yes.  But "optimum" leaves no further room for improvement.  And I think forthcoming 4k video will quickly demonstrate that.

I disagree. Yes- if it's the same source material, that could be true. But in the majority of cases film is remastered and substantially better. I.e.- wizard of oz on Blu ray will blow anything on DVD out of the water- and the remaster of wizard of oz could not fit on a dual layer DVD. So it's not strictly better for digital, but has substantially higher ceilings with restoration of classic film. Particularly when they do a 4k scan and source from there.
Lawrence of Arabia, gone with the wind, and to kill a mockingbird are some of the best restorations I've ever seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Sure. I just couldn't resist the gift that the other poster presented.
Why you little... 1wink.gif

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post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I agree.   When I want the ultimate in quality (not that Blu-ray is perfect) for a film I'm going to watch more than once, I buy Blu-ray.   I'm realistic enough to understand that physical formats will eventually disappear, but that doesn't mean they're not better.   There are only a few cases where consumers chose

apple does support BluRay, they just chose not to include the reader/burner hardware, as part of their famous method, trading off between price and desirability. They hit the sweet spot for functionality, I believe it is their forté. You can buy a DVD player/burner for fairly cheap.
What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I wrote that for the lack of a better term. Film wasn't without its drawbacks. Cheap film caused a picture to look 'grainy', but digital scan in a 1080 P conversion can fix that. Have you not seen a 'remastered' old movie look surprisingly good?

'Auntie Mame' is amazing example. Although, I believe they had a super large film frame to work with. In the digital version you can see every pore on the actors' faces and it is a bit much even, as in 'unintended resolution' by the film makers. Lol.
What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #67 of 71
and you get physical music to the list, I preordered the Led Zeppelin I, II, III over two months before the ship date...only III arrived (late) & it was copy 26k something of 30k...clearly Warner is playing hardball. I ended up having to get the other two sets somewhere else with much much better service at the same price. I am over Amazon.

And yes people still buy physical media (cds and vinyl) and you will want to too when your computing devices die.
post #68 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

'Auntie Mame' is amazing example. Although, I believe they had a super large film frame to work with. In the digital version you can see every pore on the actors' faces and it is a bit much even, as in 'unintended resolution' by the film makers. Lol.

I did not mean to imply that re-scans of source material couldn't produce a better disc. Absolutely they can, and with other tricks sometimes there is too much clarity... sets begin to look fake, e.g., with StarTrek TV episodes, because the set designers didn't intend such high detail to be visible.

post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


I disagree. Yes- if it's the same source material, that could be true. But in the majority of cases film is remastered and substantially better. I.e.- wizard of oz on Blu ray will blow anything on DVD out of the water- and the remaster of wizard of oz could not fit on a dual layer DVD. So it's not strictly better for digital, but has substantially higher ceilings with restoration of classic film. Particularly when they do a 4k scan and source from there.
Lawrence of Arabia, gone with the wind, and to kill a mockingbird are some of the best restorations I've ever seen.
Why you little... 1wink.gif

I acknowledge your truthful response. I did not mean to refer to re-mastered material.

And yes, I will unequivocally state that Lawrence of Arabia, at 216 minutes, remastered and re-orchestrated and in 70mm film, on a huge screen in 1989, is still unsurpassed in my experience. Better than any I-MAX or 3D film I've seen since. The 4K digitizations of recent years on BluRay are surely fantastic... but could never match seeing the original (restored) projection.

post #70 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
 

Reality doesn't have an infinite resolution either.

 

Thank you for that. Film, like reality, has its limits of resolution.

post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

'Auntie Mame' is amazing example. Although, I believe they had a super large film frame to work with. In the digital version you can see every pore on the actors' faces and it is a bit much even, as in 'unintended resolution' by the film makers. Lol.
I did not mean to imply that re-scans of source material couldn't produce a better disc. Absolutely they can, and with other tricks sometimes there is too much clarity... sets begin to look fake, e.g., with StarTrek TV episodes, because the set designers didn't intend such high detail to be visible.

An excellent point. One I've never thought of.
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