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New Powerbooks In July ? ? ? - Page 3

post #81 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
<strong>

That revision was a 50MHz bump on the top end. The PowerBook revision was a new chip with L3 cache, a revised motherboard, new heat ducting, new GPU, new screen resolution, DVI-out, audio-in, removal of IRDA. That's too significant an upgrade to be a three-month holdover until something else is released.</strong><hr></blockquote>

um...okay
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post #82 of 161
word? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #83 of 161
Some thoughts...

What Bodhi says is very interesting, but I don't know if I should so readily trust somebody who is in league with Irenicus...

(Baldur's Gate II joke, don't be offended)

However, I had been thinking this for a while and this powerbook thing makes it all make more sense.

First of all, PowerBooks and PowerMacs need more "Power" in everyone's minds. There have been plenty of rumors about some new 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6 Ghz G4s that Apple will be using soon in their upcoming PowerMacs as well as a host of motherboard improvements.

What if all these G4 rumors are true... but these updates are coming for the PowerBook, not the PowerMac? What if the PowerMac is instead going to be using a G5, a Power4, or some new processor secretly developed by Apple in hidden underground laboratories?

That would give the PowerMac and PowerBook the "power" they need.

It would also pave the way for an October-ish update to the iComputers - just in time for christmas shopping.

The iMac could get that 133Mhz bus and faster G4. Essentially, it could use most of the guts from the current PowerMacs.

The iBook could start using those 1Ghz Sahara chips and the 200Mhz DDR capabilities that are currently turned off. Remember, even though the G4 does not support DDR, the new Sahara G3s do, but Apple's not going to use that ability now or it would make the rest of their product line look like a joke in people's eyes.

Steve Jobs has alluded to the fact that they will "close the Mhz gap" in the near future. There must be something besides "speed-bumped G4s" in the works, right.

In fact, the May PowerBook update was probably only done so they could release the updated iBooks a couple weeks later and so the they'd be QE compliant before WWDC. Giving the sales an extra boost doesn't hurt either. I wouldn't say the re-design was a major cost though, since I'm sure they have a group of people constantly toying with the powerbook design and specs anyway.
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post #84 of 161
Why not a PowerBook G5, if the PowerMac lines migrates that way at the same time?
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post #85 of 161
Apple has done an excellent job with the current rebates. But why is the Superfly with the Power Macs and Powerbooks only? CTO machines regardless of which model is where Apple makes its largest margins.
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post #86 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
<strong>

That revision was a 50MHz bump on the top end. The PowerBook revision was a new chip with L3 cache, a revised motherboard, new heat ducting, new GPU, new screen resolution, DVI-out, audio-in, removal of IRDA. That's too significant an upgrade to be a three-month holdover until something else is released.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What if the current mobo has most of the reworking done ready for features which weren't ready? eg Bluetooth is waiting for 802.11g. Has anybody had the mobo out to look for unused 'extras'?

It may also be true that the current design is old inside Apple. None of the new features are new in the IT industry, only the CPU is modern by G4 standards. The rest might be 8 months old internally and a 100% new board is just waiting for DDR G4s or somesuch.

We'll know soon.
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post #87 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by taboo:
<strong><a href="http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='20020075647'.PGNR.&O S=DN/20020075647&RS=DN/20020075647" target="_blank">patent number</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Looks like the Pismo. It had the media bay, latch and fan described in this patent.

Why the patent application has appeared this year, well, who konws?

The iBook and TiBook have better latches and no media bay. I don't see a new media bay in the PowerBook's future.

[ 06-22-2002: Message edited by: ducasi ]</p>
post #88 of 161
[quote]The iBook could start using those 1Ghz Sahara chips and the 200Mhz DDR capabilities that are currently turned off. Remember, even though the G4 does not support DDR, the new Sahara G3s do, but Apple's not going to use that ability now or it would make the rest of their product line look like a joke in people's eyes.<hr></blockquote>

The Sahara does not have a DDR bus, it is capable of running the 60x bus at a 200MHz base frequency, not effective frequency.

Unfortunately, the MPX bus is a bit more complex than the 60x bus, and we won't likely see it revved that high any time soon.
post #89 of 161
two things io think about...

one. i agree this could possibly just be the patent for an older computer like the Pismo. patent applications can sometimes take a long time to get through to the point they are a finished pulic document like this one....

two. if this is a future product offering i think this would more likely be a iBook than a PowerBook. reasonsing is simple. one of the main points this patent makes is about heat disapation for using computers on soft surfaces... well most professionals use their notebooks on hard surfaces. desks, lap trays in planes, etc. "kids" on the other hand love ot use the coputer anywhere. lying down in bed, on a pillow, etc. this design would be perfect for an education based notebook....
post #90 of 161
[quote]one of the main points this patent makes is about heat disapation for using computers on soft surfaces... well most professionals use their notebooks on hard surfaces. desks, lap trays in planes, etc. "kids" on the other hand love ot use the coputer anywhere. lying down in bed, on a pillow, etc. this design would be perfect for an education based notebook.... <hr></blockquote>

My 6 cents:

I don't think anyone at Apple is as narrow-minded as this... I'm 26 and fully plan on being a "kid" for quite some time -- that is, if by definition "kids" use their notebook computers on surfaces other than desks.

My $.02 w/re: the Superdrive issue: a PB update that includes a DVD-burner would be a perfect "One more thing..." in a keynote speech, an addendum that would be powerful enough to draw laughs and cheers from a live audience (always a good thing, don't you think?)

A media bay added to the Powerbook would allow otherwise wary potential buyers to jump in without hesitation. Speaking for myself, I would buy a Powerbook sans a Superdrive knowing that the slot could later be used for that purpose when one is released. The last few Powerbook updates (beginning with the original Ti) have scared many people out of buying them -- the industry is changing so fast all the time that people feel like they need to keep their options open and a non-upgradeable/expandable Powerbook doesn't allow this. Sure, the ports allow some expandability (Apple's justification for the internal "don't touch this" quality of their machines) but people do want an all-in-one computer. Again, I'm speaking for myself and generalizing to all of you.

-- PEte
post #91 of 161
a swappable drive bay on an iBook?

"Look timmy, my peanut butter and jelly sandwich fits in here real good"
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post #92 of 161
Sigh. It's not a Pismo. Wrong shape..... <a href="http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ft00&S1=D424,032.WKU.&O S=PN/D424,032&RS=PN/D424,032" target="_blank">herepage</a> is the link for the Wallstreet/Pismo form factor. The website in question has 2 distinct search pages....1 for granted patents, and 1 for pending applications. I found this on the pending applications page. Application was first filed in Feb 2002, and has now been reviewed, so now it's been posted to the site. Somehow I can't imagine Apple taking so long to just apply for a patent.
If anything it looks more like a 3400/Kanga (shudder) or an iBook wit removable bay. I just hope it doesn't mean a return to the bad old days of large/really bloody heavy powerbooks. My Wallstreet was a major pain to carry...destroyed a bag a year.
I always thought of the removable bays as a good selling point, and suspect that Apple only ditched them because the new machines are too thin to accomodate.
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post #93 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by taboo:
<strong>Sigh. It's not a Pismo. Wrong shape..... <a href="http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ft00&S1=D424,032.WKU.&O S=PN/D424,032&RS=PN/D424,032" target="_blank">herepage</a> is the link for the Wallstreet/Pismo form factor. </strong><hr></blockquote>

That's the patent on the pismo form factor, but not the details of its media bay, fans, etc.

The fact that the picture of the laptop in the new patent application doesn't look anything like the pismo means nothing. The shape isn't important here, it's the mechanisms.

Who could convince me that the lid catch mechanism shown in this patent is ever going to be used again by Apple?

From what I remember about the pismo (mine's dead) it had the catch shown in this patent, the media bay eject mechanism, and the fan.

This doesn't reveal anything about Apple's future hardware, it's a reminder of the past.
post #94 of 161
applenut-Wow 3599 for a dual GHz G4 w/cinema display? Are you serious? Here's the check.
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post #95 of 161
Reading that patent and looking at the crude drawing, I came across this:

[quote]The track pad 108 is an input device for the portable computer 100 and generally represents an input pointer device. The associated buttons 110 and 112 allow a user to make a selection with respect to a graphical user interface.<hr></blockquote>

So, a Two-button PowerBook is on the horizon?
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post #96 of 161
You people insisting that this is a Pismo patent need to stop pissing on my parade!! I suspect the reason you are disbelievers is because you probably just purchased a TiBook, heh, heh! Man, I am glad that I waited.
post #97 of 161
Now, I don't know about anyone else, but this doesn't look or sound like any Pismo.



[quote]
Another advantage of the invention is that the latching mechanism is provided in the base housing of a portable computer which tends to be a thicker housing than a corresponding display housing. Still another advantage of the invention is that the front surface of the display housing of a portable computer need not include a hook or other aesthetically damaging protrusion associated with a latch mechanism provided in the display housing.<hr></blockquote>

But better yet is this part of the patent:
[quote]Additionally, the portable computer 400 can provide elastomer bumpers 434 between the front surface of the display housing 404 and the top surface of the base housing 402. When in the closed position, the elastomer bumpers 434 protect the top surface of the base housing 402 as well as the front surface of the display housing 404 from being marred or tarnished due to wearing against one another as opposing surfaces. Hence, the elastomer bumpers 434 provide a small stand off height to prevent direct contact of these opposing surfaces.<hr></blockquote>Sounds like they're onto solving the problem with oil rubbing off the keys and onto the displays?

[ 06-22-2002: Message edited by: Dave Hagan ]</p>
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post #98 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Ti X:
<strong>You people insisting that this is a Pismo patent need to stop pissing on my parade!!</strong><hr></blockquote>Well they technically can't rain on your parade because this patent talks about only one removable bay, which is located on the left side. I seem to recall the Pismo having two; one on each side of the laptop....

[ 06-22-2002: Message edited by: Dave Hagan ]</p>
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post #99 of 161
While we are on the subject of removable bays, I have a few questions.

Is there that much legacy hardware out there that people are still using, that they need the option of floppy or zip drives?

I don't see it, let alone if a future TiBook comes with a superdrive, what besides that would you need? An extra battery in the other slot maybe, but then you sacrfice portability because you will have to carry your removable drives in your bag, and all these options only increase the weight of your bag!! Which I am constantly trying to reduce. Or, maybe people believe that by having a media slot, they are future proofing their machines. I personally haven't seen a floppy in over two years, but that may be due to the industry that I am in, which is on the leading edge of the curve.

So, all of you "Gimme a removable bay!" crooners, speak up! Let me hear your justifications, oh wait, one stipulation, I don't want to hear "To swap files on a floppy." You should be using email, telnet, ethernet, or even serial interface, none of which require a removable bay.

Anyway, come on new PowerBook!!!
post #100 of 161
[quote] So, all of you "Gimme a removable bay!" crooners, speak up! Let me hear your justifications, oh wait, one stipulation, I don't want to hear "To swap files on a floppy." You should be using email, telnet, ethernet, or even serial interface, none of which require a removable bay. <hr></blockquote>

Here's one use- not really in the spirit of what you were asking, though.

I recently took my Lombard to a LAN party. A fella there with a Pismo needed to install a Warcraft spawn on his machine, but hadn't brought his CD drive- just two batteries (he got late notice for the party and had to "come as he was"). He had me pop out my CD drive, and he plugged it right into his Pismo and installed the software.

I thought it was uber-cool, especially considering that it was two different generations of machine!
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post #101 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Dave Hagan:
<strong>Now, I don't know about anyone else, but this doesn't look or sound like any Pismo.


</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think it looks identical to the pismo latch.

I don't understand the quote about not including a hook on the display housing, as item 432 is clearly a hook on the top of the display housing.


[quote]<strong>Sounds like they're onto solving the problem with oil rubbing off the keys and onto the displays?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Guess what? The pismo had these "elastomer bumpers" too.

[quote]Originally posted by Dave Hagan:
<strong>Well they technically can't rain on your parade because this patent talks about only one removable bay, which is located on the left side. I seem to recall the Pismo having two; one on each side of the laptop....
</strong><hr></blockquote>

The patent doesn't need to talk about both, does it?

Also, the two buttons next to the track pad are part of the drawings, but are not part of the claims. Again, meaningless.

For what it's worth, I haven't just bought any kind of laptop and don't intend to any time soon.

Cheers!
post #102 of 161
Is there room for another laptop line? We have iBooks for education and general tasks, and the PowerBook for the professional level (and whoever isn't really a pro but wants the higher end). What about a laptop designed to support just about anything (the bays would help here), go about anywhere, and just be a general workhorse? Think of it as an iBook on steroids; a high-end consumer laptop. G4, bays, more ram, newer graphics card, higher resolution, etc. would be included with a price point between the iBook and PowerBook.

With desktop systems we have the eMac, iMac, and PowerMac. Perhaps the laptop line will be iBook, somenewmediaorientedBook (think digital hub), and PowerBook. Thoughts?
post #103 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Dave Hagan:

<strong>
Sounds like they're onto solving the problem with oil rubbing off the keys and onto the displays?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

The PowerBook G4 already has these bumpers.
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post #104 of 161
My guess for the Titanium at MWNY:

800 MHz, 1 GHz G4
DDR RAM
Superdrive, 50% possibility

If it gets a superdrive, then expect a major case revision....but if no superdrive, then only internal changes.

Clearly Motorola has finally figured out how to fab G4s, they are pumping them out like nobody's business. So why not drop a GHz G4 in the Titanium? Since Wintel laptops are running at over twice that clock speed, Apple needs to do all they can.
post #105 of 161
Remember, these wintel laptops are huge and are meant to replace desktops. You can move them easier than a desktop, but not like a true laptop.

I agree though, looks like Motorola has learnt how to fab.

Superdrive is iffy, wouldn't we see tray-loading laptop superdrives before slot-loading (like every other drive)??

Barto
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post #106 of 161
i know this is like comparing apples to oranges (Steve would love to give us the speed demo i am sure) but why must Apple in the portibale arena play "catch-up" with the PCs. announced today is mobile 1.9GHz and 2.0GHz P4-M (equivelant to G4 max we have is 800), mobile celerons around starting around 1.33GHz (equivelant to G3 max we have is 700)....

also anohter item i thought apple would 'showcase' first is built in support for 802.11b and blutooth... but they are beat by Compaq's MultiPort, a wireless networking port that supports either 802.11b or Bluetooth.

with the recent patent drawings and usual rumors i am hoping we are all pleasantly surprise come MWNY in a few weeks......
post #107 of 161
You have to remember that the word "mobility" in one of intel's processor names means "slower than the real thing"

Anyway, I would hope that the new PowerBooks have speeds up to around 200 Mhz less than the high-end PowerMac, so the new PowerBooks could go up to 1.0, 1.2, or 1.4 ghz, depending on whose rumors you want to believe.

One thing is for certain - Moto is having no trouble making 1Ghz G4s. It's time to up the ante.

dual 1.6 Ghz PowerMacs would actually look respectable, even if they can't get true DDR and have to use the Xserve hack. The improved cache architecture and improvements in Jaguar (like QE) will offset many of the limitations of the FSB bottleneck.

[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: rogue27 ]</p>
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post #108 of 161
DDR is only going to add 10% to the speed, so who cares. A 166 Mhz MPX bus would be faster and better. MPX already utilizes more bus on throughput than equivalent existing Intel. So DDR can bite it, I'd take 166 MPX. The only reason people keep talking about DDR is that Intel uses it. Apple ain't gotta (and shouldn't) follow Intel machines. If you want DDR get an X86 and run WindogXP. Get over it.
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post #109 of 161
Well, thanks for that charming post, despite the fact that I said it doesn't matter if they can't use true DDR.

166 would be nice, but Moto only said they "might" go to 166 in the future, so I didn't want to speculate on any of that.

And geez, you are an *******.

Anyways, DDR would help on memory transfers that do not go through the FSB, such as memory to video card transfers over AGP (which QE will use plenty of) or transfers from ethernet to hard drive, hard drive to RAM, etc.It certainly wouldn't hurt.

[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: rogue27 ]</p>
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post #110 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by rogue27:
<strong>Well, thanks for that charming post, despite the fact that I said it doesn't matter if they can't use true DDR.

166 would be nice, but Moto only said they "might" go to 166 in the future, so I didn't want to speculate on any of that.

And geez, you are an *******.

Anyways, DDR would help on memory transfers that do not go through the FSB, such as memory to video card transfers over AGP (which QE will use plenty of) or transfers from ethernet to hard drive, hard drive to RAM, etc.It certainly wouldn't hurt.

[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: rogue27 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not really an *******. Just really getting tired of people saying that Apple has to have DDR are they ain't going to use macs anymore, or they suck, or blah, blah blah. DDR is not the only answer, the Gr has to be fixed to use more bandwidth. If this means DDR then fine, but DDR ain't all its suppose to be. People think that DDR is twice the speed because things are suppose to be sent on every half clock cycle, but that don't make it twice as fast.
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post #111 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Bigc:
<strong>The only reason people keep talking about DDR is that Intel uses it. Apple ain't gotta (and shouldn't) follow Intel machines. If you want DDR get an X86 and run WindogXP. Get over it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Your logic (and memory) is a**-backwards. Actually, DDR was being discussed long before Intel's support of it. Remeber a little thing called Rambus? That was Intel's buddy to back, not DDR. DDR has proven itself time and time again (and that is the reason Intel finally made the switch). And the reason I think most Mac users want it in the next systems is because it has become the new standard in in memory. And things that are standard are usually cheaper and more plentiful. I never want to go back to those day of paying outrageous amounts for RAM because only one or two companies made it.
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post #112 of 161
Any news on price changes for the Powerbooks, education or otherwise? The only evidence we had to take this thread to 100+ posts was some bookstore price reductions, right? Does anything else suggest end-of-life on these machines?

Regards,
Pete
post #113 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Bigc:
<strong>
Not really an *******. Just really getting tired of people saying that Apple has to have DDR are they ain't going to use macs anymore, or they suck, or blah, blah blah.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I never said that.
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post #114 of 161
[quote]DDR is only going to add 10% to the speed, so who cares<hr></blockquote>

On what is that founded? x86 performance with DDR? It's ten percent I'd rather have anyway

MPX may be highly efficient, but it still supplies less overall bandwidth than Athlon and P4 frontside buses. "Intel uses it" is not the only reason people talk about DDR.
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post #115 of 161
I have not heard of <a href="http://www.slaptech.com/index.php#powerbook" target="_blank">Slaptech</a> until now but here is what they have to say about the next PowerBook G4:

[quote]
Apple Executive Sports 1 GHz PowerBook G4 Prototype

June 25, 2002, 06:10PM PT

Apple Computer will not release a new model of their award winning PowerBook G4 until later this fall, but company executives were seen toying with prototypes of the new model just last week.

The unit is enclosed inside the same titanium casing as the current PowerBook G4 but sports a 1 GHz G4 processor, according to an overseas source who was able to catch a glimpse of the prototype's statistical info panel. Most impressively, however, is that the prototype is said to sport double the amount of DDR SDRAM video memory as the current model, in the form of an 64MB ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 AGP graphics processor.

Little to no additional information is available on the product at this time. The sighting took place at a high-profile Apple Event last week between the computer maker and some of their most cherished digital media customers. A number of the company's America based executives were apparently flown out to the event, which took place overseas.
<hr></blockquote>
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post #116 of 161
I would say updated powerbook in Seybold.
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post #117 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>he he. Bodhi is brining back memories of myself in "Mercury Rising". and we all know how that turned out <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

ummm, I dont know how that turned out.... I wasnt around here when that debate happened... I heard it mentioned before, and I'm sure someone has explained it before, but i cant seem to rememebr it... anyone care to enlighten me?

Edit: also, when is seybold?

[ 06-29-2002: Message edited by: Paul ]</p>
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post #118 of 161
Well while this thread has kind of Petered out over the last week, news came that Apple probablyh won't released a revised Titanium until the fall. Bodhi: Given the latest news article, are you still sure about revisions at MWNY?
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post #119 of 161
link?
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post #120 of 161
[quote]Originally posted by Dave Hagan:
<strong>mm2002,

The liklihood of PowerBook updates at the upcoming MacWorld is very low at this point. Should you wait, however? Yes.

I have read about iBooks with G4's. I tend to have a different interpretation of this rumor. I believe we'll see smaller PowerBook G4s.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know I considered waiting, but I decided (and was helped in this decision by a partial insider) that the current PBG4 is great and I'll be using it for years anyhow, so why not get one while you can get a cheaper iPod as well? So i ordered on today. Yay.

--Alexis

P.S. Will I be annoyed if the PB recieves and update? Of course, but not angry. I've got a great machine and it'll pay off for college and years to come.
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AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › New Powerbooks In July ? ? ?