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Apple partner Nuance exploring sale, reportedly in talks with Samsung - Page 2

post #41 of 99
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Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 
Siri is really good at certain things like setting an alarm or getting sport scores. It is a mystery why she sucks so bad at so many other common requests. One thing that always irritates me is that she all too often returns a static page with tiny fonts instead of voice response. This is especially annoying when I am driving. She should know there is a pretty good chance I'm behind the wheel if she just checked the GPS for a few seconds while retrieving the data for my request. I would like her to say: It looks like you may be driving, would you like me to read aloud the contents of what I found?

Let's face it, as of today it still looks like effective artificial intelligence on a phone may be a long way off.

Even with all the advances in technology, it's even stevens that you're probably right.
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post #42 of 99
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Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I recommend Apple immediately buy IBM. Replace Siri with Watson and rename it "Steve".

In an unrelated story, the US Transportation Department wants to regulate navigation apps... They are probably losing so much of their traffic ticket money that they want to remove the ability for users to indicate where the police are located.

Good suggestion; but even better would be Steven.
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post #43 of 99
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Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Even though Siri apparently uses Nuance only for voice recognition and not for AI, it seems to me that this would have been a more important strategic and defensive acquisition than Beats was. 

Why the past tense? If Apple wants Nuance, they'll buy Nuance.

It's not like the Beats acquisition out a dent in Apple's cash pile or anything.
post #44 of 99
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Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post
 

+1

 

...and it SUCKS even more owning anything with Samsung name on it. 

post #45 of 99
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Are… you acquainted with MacRumors?

 

You mean the Samsung Shill/Fanboy Forum?

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post #46 of 99
i used to think that companies would be racing to acquire Nuance. But the whole voice recognition as a service capability is quickly becoming a commodity. If they don't use Nuance they'll use some other service. The real power is with the training data and user feedback that Apple is collecting and with the AI layer that acts on the words.
post #47 of 99
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
 

Sometimes there are unavoidable evils we have to bear. Just like automobiles, no matter how much one strives to buy American, foreign parts (especially electronics) are impossibly unavoidable.

 

I hope you posted this to prove a pro-Apple point and not just to troll...

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post #48 of 99
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Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Richards View Post

I am a long time user of Nuance. More than 12 year. I still use it everyday and am even using it to dictate this. Even with a pretty good microphone (Airport 77), a Retina MBP and a quiet environment, it SUCKS!


Its lack of contextual awareness, for a company that wants to be worth 7 billion , is inexcusable and downright lazy. Statistics-based frequency models for determining which words should appear together are clunky and not fit for purpose in modern computing. Even a little bit of artificial intelligence and better use of grammar would go a long way in making the product better.


The stupid word combinations it sometimes comes up with boggle the mind even with someone that speaks clearly and knows how to use the product.


Apple's dictation in Mavericks cannot be used all day, every day for serious work. But DragonDictate earns enough money that some serious investment would make a product that..... .....makes sense out of the nonsense traces it throws in front of you.


I really wish someone else could emerge to provide enough competition to make them progress in a meaningful way. Apple Dictation just knocked the bottom out of the market and I worry that they will take that as an incentive to invest even less, especially on the Mac platform.


At the end of the day, the product is just too dumb for what we [reasonably] expect of it.
Thanks for your experience, Shaw. 
Article: [[COLOR=181818]Nuance's technology does not handle Siri's artificial intelligence layers. Instead, the company's products simply provides the capability of Siri, or other voice-driven services, to interpret a user's voice.[/COLOR]]

Surely there is other technology Apple could purchase that would cost far less than this. However, to seem interested to drive the price up to waste Samsung’s time and money would be a ploy most corporations might entertain. Creepy, but Samsung thrives on creepy.
addendum
As Apple seems not to have broached the company prior to this, possibly it is working on its own version of this technology. Just supposing . . 

Apple was working on speech recognition many years ago... I think even before Steve returned. Maybe Steve killed it to focus on keeping the company alive. I used to have a CD where it was discussed and the presenter was saying why it was so important to add content to speech recognition because just by listening a computer can't tell the difference between saying "I see," and saying "icy."

On buying Nuance, Apple may have all the licenses it need in place to use what they need from Nuance. Who are we to know?
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post #49 of 99
Originally Posted by RedHotFuzz View Post
You mean the Samsung Shill/Fanboy Forum?

 

That's the one.

 

Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

I hope you posted this to prove a pro-Apple point and not just to troll...

 

It's waterrockets. He's trolling.

post #50 of 99

Well, that's it.  Apple is doomed.  DOOMED, I tell you!  Time to sell* my unbelievably considerable position in Apple.

 

;)

 

*Actually, I usually figure when someone states that they own Apple stock and are selling it because of an AppleInsider post that they don't own any and are just being dramatic and trolly - don't you?

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post #51 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post
 

Even though Siri apparently uses Nuance only for voice recognition and not for AI, it seems to me that this would have been a more important strategic and defensive acquisition than Beats was. 

 

If it was strategically important and more valuable to own than license, Apple would have owned them already. Apple has probably looked at it and evaluated the technology and their license terms and figure for less than $7B they can roll their own. Until then, they will just keep using it as is. 


Edited by Eric Swinson - 6/23/14 at 8:49am
post #52 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Didn't you know questioning the Beats acquisition is heresy around here? 1wink.gif

People can question the Beats acquisition as long as they make coherent thoughts and good arguments. Stating Beats has been detrimental to Apple because of "hip hop" or "thug" culture is not one of them.
post #53 of 99
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Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post
 
I hope you posted this to prove a pro-Apple point and not just to troll...

 

You missed a third option: to illustrate that the vitriol towards Samsung so liberally sprayed on this forum exaggerates its role as Arch-Nemesis and ignores the fact that Samsung provides some products and services that Apple cannot readily source elsewhere.

 

If not that, I still gotta figure there are possible reasons beyond just "pro-Apple" and "troll."

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post #54 of 99
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

You missed a third option: to illustrate that the vitriol towards Samsung so liberally sprayed on this forum exaggerates its role as Arch-Nemesis and ignores the fact that Samsung provides some products and services that Apple cannot readily source elsewhere.

 

There's not really anyone who disparages Samsung while ignoring their present manufacturing necessity. Do you have any examples otherwise?

post #55 of 99
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

There's not really anyone who disparages Samsung while ignoring their present manufacturing necessity. Do you have any examples otherwise?

 

You're ruining his straw man...

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post #56 of 99
Apple should buy Nuance and not let it fall into the hands of a competitor.
post #57 of 99
"Nuance's technology does not handle Siri's artificial intelligence layers. Instead, the company's products simply provides the capability of Siri, or other voice-driven services, to interpret a user's voice. That data must then be contextually deciphered to provide the kind of humanized response a user expects."


Whoever wrote this does not understand voice-recongition technologies. Yes, Nuance does not handle the integration to backend services, however, voice grammars provide all the contextual information necessary to make the queries. In essence, 80% of the work is done after the recognition... the rest is merely web services and database work.
post #58 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Google's voice recognition technology and contextual natural language comprehension is so far ahead of everyone else it is ridiculous. I have no idea how they did it without infringing on Nuance patents. That is the main challenge with Apple rolling their own voice recognition, the patents.
Google's is good but, IMO, is no where near nuance yet. But as for how they did it so fast...data.

These days, algorithms are well advanced and data is king. Google can examine every voicemail that goes through the GV system and store the data for further analysis. They can also peruse each and every email that goes through gmail to improve NLU (not the speech recognition part, but the language parsing and understanding part). Nuance doesn't have either of these massive sources of pure data. No one does really.

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post #59 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Even though Siri apparently uses Nuance only for voice recognition and not for AI, it seems to me that this would have been a more important strategic and defensive acquisition than Beats was. 
I hear this often, that nuance only provides the bare bones speech recognition and apple handles the AI. I don't think it's that cut and dry. Nuance has gigantic data centres for online voice recognition and have been almost exclusively focused on NLU.

There would really be three stages here.
-determining the words
- determining meaning of words and phrases
- determining intent as it relates to Siri for command and control, search, etc

The AI is going to be in the last two. I expect nuance is involved up to and including stage two.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #60 of 99
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Originally Posted by huxley View Post

Apple apparently has a research lab in Boston made up of former VoiceSignal staff that have been working for a few years on a secret project. Maybe Nuance knows that Apple is about to cut its cord with them and are looking for some company to buy them out before that happens?

 

Apple represents a very small fraction of Nuance's revenues ... The bread and butter for Nuance is Health Care and Enterprise, not Apple.

post #61 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


I hear this often, that nuance only provides the bare bones speech recognition and apple handles the AI. I don't think it's that cut and dry. Nuance has gigantic data centres for online voice recognition and have been almost exclusively focused on NLU.

There would really be three stages here.
-determining the words
- determining meaning of words and phrases
- determining intent as it relates to Siri for command and control, search, etc

The AI is going to be in the last two. I expect nuance is involved up to and including stage two.

 

Nuance Recognizer will provide everything unto the intent ... so the only thing left to do is submit the intent and associated parameters into a web service call to retrieve the data requested by the user.

 

Basically the heavy lifting in terms of understanding the user is done by the time the intent is captured (by Nuance technologies).

 

No people complain Siri can be "dumb" at times ... that's probably due to a lack of investment on Apple's part on expanding the grammars to cover each and every possible utterance. Nevertheless the current state of Siri is still pretty impressive for a NLU application.

post #62 of 99
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Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I recommend Apple immediately buy IBM. Replace Siri with Watson and rename it "Steve".

This would have the added advantage that an iPhone could win on Jeopardy! 1biggrin.gif
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post #63 of 99
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Originally Posted by karmadave View Post

Apple should buy Nuance and not let it fall into the hands of a competitor.

 

Apple already hired-away the talent they wanted/needed from Nuance. See the AppleInsider article about that, posted a few months ago.  And so at this point, all that Nuance has left is an apparently weak product (comments from above, in this topic) and the remaining IP they took away from the fiasco with the Bakers (who invented it all and, were swindled out of it with the help of Goldman Sachs).  In my opinion, all that remains now at Nuance are middlemen, financiers, and shady investors.  Let SAMSUNG pour its money into their rat-hole.  Apple is way ahead of them all by now.

post #64 of 99
 
Originally posted by Gatorguy::
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Nuance Communications, the voice recognition company whose technology helps to power Apple's Siri personal assistant, is said to be exploring a sale of the company, with Apple rival Samsung allegedly a potential suitor.

Some industry watchers and investors have suggested that Apple should make a play to buy Nuance and own the technology behind Siri while cutting out competitors like Samsung or the Google Now service found in Android.
Google doesn't use Nuance for any of their products including Google Now as far as I know. 

I read this as Apple should buy them so Samsung/Google can't and use the technology, not that they are now using it and an Apple purchase would end any agreements between them.

post #65 of 99

Apple already bought Novauris so the Nuance licensing deal can be dropped sooner or later. Maybe Nuance is selling because they know the Apple's will drop its license with them.

 

 

In any case Nuance is not worth $6B+ to Apple because they have a ton of extra baggage that Apple does not need.  Let Samsung buy them and then drop the licensing deal.

 

Samsung can have Nuance for $6B+

Microsoft and Google use their own technology, Apple will soon use its own as well.


Edited by AppleSauce007 - 6/17/14 at 10:40pm
post #66 of 99
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Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post

its not heresy -- there are just more people here who recognize clueless arm-chair CEOs than there are on other sites, say MacRumors.
Except when people complained about the 5c or when they complain about iOS 7 or Helvetica Neue in 10.10. Then they're not clueless arm-chair CEOs. 1tongue.gif
post #67 of 99
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Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Microsoft and Google use their own technology, Apple will soon use its own as well.
and what technology would that be? Is Apple working on some secret Siri project no one knows about?
post #68 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

People can question the Beats acquisition as long as they make coherent thoughts and good arguments. Stating Beats has been detrimental to Apple because of "hip hop" or "thug" culture is not one of them.
And had Samsung acquired Beats I'll bet you no one would be lamenting that Apple didn't purchase them. We'd be told how the music service is nothing special and something Apple could easily do on its own, and Apple would have no problem designing better headphones too. 1wink.gif
post #69 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmadave View Post

Apple should buy Nuance and not let it fall into the hands of a competitor.

Perhaps you mean buy it and shut it down? Leave Samsung to develop lipreading input. That would alleviate the problem of noisy neighbors talking to Siri.

post #70 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by karmadave View Post

Apple should buy Nuance and not let it fall into the hands of a competitor.

Apple already hired-away the talent they wanted/needed from Nuance. See the AppleInsider article about that, posted a few months ago.  And so at this point, all that Nuance has left is an apparently weak product (comments from above, in this topic) and the remaining IP they took away from the fiasco with the Bakers (who invented it all and, were swindled out of it with the help of Goldman Sachs).  In my opinion, all that remains now at Nuance are middlemen, financiers, and shady investors.  Let SAMSUNG pour its money into their rat-hole.  Apple is way ahead of them all by now.

Interestingly (or not), one of those shady investors in Nuance is Carl Icahn.
post #71 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by huxley View Post

Apple apparently has a research lab in Boston made up of former VoiceSignal staff that have been working for a few years on a secret project. Maybe Nuance knows that Apple is about to cut its cord with them and are looking for some company to buy them out before that happens?

Apple has definitely started their own speech recognition laboratory as evidenced by the purchase of Novaurius in 2013 which includes many of the scientists who originally conceived Dragon Systems; e.g. John Bridle and Melvyn Hunt. Furthermore, last year Apple hired Alex Acero away from Microsoft Conversational Systems Research Center.
post #72 of 99
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Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Sometimes there are unavoidable evils we have to bear. Just like automobiles, no matter how much one strives to buy American, foreign parts (especially electronics) are impossibly unavoidable.

I hope you posted this to prove a pro-Apple point and not just to troll...

Just pointing out the silliness of an electronics user saying that everything that says "Samsung" on it is evil.
Edited by waterrockets - 6/17/14 at 7:05am
post #73 of 99
So the company that bought up most of the other smaller speech recognition firms is now looking to sell itself off.

This can't end well.
post #74 of 99
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


and what technology would that be? Is Apple working on some secret Siri project no one knows about?

 

Go to novauris.com and see where it takes you.  

They had embedded and client/server automatic speech recognition (ASR).

post #75 of 99
Nuance has a major major problem.

As soon as they leave the Apple fold, reality will strike, though maybe they got mugged so leaving is a given.
post #76 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

People can question the Beats acquisition as long as they make coherent thoughts and good arguments. Stating Beats has been detrimental to Apple because of "hip hop" or "thug" culture is not one of them.
And had Samsung acquired Beats I'll bet you no one would be lamenting that Apple didn't purchase them. We'd be told how the music service is nothing special and something Apple could easily do on its own, and Apple would have no problem designing better headphones too. 1wink.gif

What I find interesting is that before the Beats acquisition, no-one was talking about Apple buying headphones or music-streaming. Indeed, they weren't even on the radar, which leads me to believe that Apple will introduce a new product that is more than these things.
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post #77 of 99
I trust Apple Inc. that they have done their due diligence and decided Nuance wasn't worth all the noise. A lot of folks here assume to know information that we clearly do not.

What if the core of Nuance's patents are due in just a few years, say 5 or less? Would you think it is worth 5B$+? Apple got screwed so much in the past, that's it is in their DNA (Us against the world) not to be caught with their pants down by some competitor. History has shown Apple can play chess better than most of them out there.

Out of memory, when was the last time Apple got screwed over by a competitor beside good old Microsoft and the Microsoft Office fiasco?
Edited by Banzai - 6/17/14 at 5:07am
post #78 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Richards View Post

I am a long time user of Nuance. More than 12 year. I still use it everyday and am even using it to dictate this. Even with a pretty good microphone (Airport 77), a Retina MBP and a quiet environment, it SUCKS!

Its lack of contextual awareness, for a company that wants to be worth 7 billion , is inexcusable and downright lazy. Statistics-based frequency models for determining which words should appear together are clunky and not fit for purpose in modern computing. Even a little bit of artificial intelligence and better use of grammar would go a long way in making the product better.

The stupid word combinations it sometimes comes up with boggle the mind even with someone that speaks clearly and knows how to use the product.

Apple's dictation in Mavericks cannot be used all day, every day for serious work. But DragonDictate earns enough money that some serious investment would make a product that..... .....makes sense out of the nonsense traces it throws in front of you.

I really wish someone else could emerge to provide enough competition to make them progress in a meaningful way. Apple Dictation just knocked the bottom out of the market and I worry that they will take that as an incentive to invest even less, especially on the Mac platform.

At the end of the day, the product is just too dumb for what we [reasonably] expect of it.

If you have never used the Windows version of Dragon, then you are missing out. The Mac version was developed by a 3rd party licensed company that just used the Nuance speech engine. The Windows version is much better contextually. I have also seen Indian Doctors speak with such a deep accent that I could not understand them, but the medical terms and recognition was 100%. Any current speech recognition technology that does not have a user training/enrollment prior to use of the system is going to suck (Apple Dictation).

post #79 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai View Post

I
Out of memory, when was the last time Apple got screwed over by a competitor beside good old Microsoft and the Microsoft Office fiasco?
Well Sammy did screw Apple over with its copying.
post #80 of 99
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Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Well Sammy did screw Apple over with its copying.

IMHO they screwed other phone vendors more than they did Apple. I don't think Apple would have sold significantly more iPhones than they have seeing as they supposedly sell everything they can produce. As far as actual harm to Apple iPhone sales I don't know there was all that much. Motorola, HTC, LG. . . Yeah they were absolutely impacted on the sales front from Samsung "borrowing".
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