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post #41 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

I wouldn't call it a 'rule', it's more like a custom or habit.

It's neither. Old English tended to pronounce words based on the first syllable, which tended to create alliterative strophic poetry.

After William the conqueror changed the official court language to French in 1066, French words entered the lexicon, which is why Chaucer is so different from, say, Gawain and the Green knight.

French words (and Latin, which we borrowed from heavily in the Renaissance) have stresses in later syllables. So borrowed words (calques) have different stresses than old English words, which are also typically shorter.
post #42 of 82

Nice thread, with the Barenaked Ladies tune a good catch.

 

Now, language lawyers (or rather barristers), please explain molybdenum:

 

      http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/british/molybdenum#

post #43 of 82
iWatch --> Omega already does liquid metal - and uses sapphire glass
http://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/watchmaking/liquidmetal
Is where Apple are looking?
post #44 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frac View Post

Uh uh... The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) officially standardised on aluminium in 1990.
The pretension is all American....but only officially since 1925 btw, first in disagreeing with the naming by the great Sir Humphrey Davy and then having a list of metals comprising....well do you really say also chronum, rhodum, cadmum all before we get to say caesium... I give up, I can't defeat spellchecker anymore...1tongue.gif

1) My comment went way, way over your cranum.

2) If you want to discuss the most abundant metal in the Earth's crust then the term aluminum predates aluminium. It was the British that decided after the fact and without consideration to any standards body to make the word use the -ium suffix to more closely match other metals on the periodic table.

3) Your argument that every American is pretentious for not converting their language in the last 24 years because of what the IUPAC wants is ridiculous.

Whoa there...making it personal?
In which case the opprobrium is all yours.

But yeah, you're right, it's very pretentious of the Brits to define and celebrate their own language. How dare they!
post #45 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's so pretentious how the British add an 'i' to the word titanum¡

So the American version is ttanium? 😃
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post #46 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

It's totally a guess that Apple will be using Liquid Metal. After Jony made his announcement, Samsung announced they will be soon be making their cases out of unobtainium. You heard it here first folks!

It would tie in quite nicely to use Liquid Metal iPhones with the recently announced Metal!
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post #47 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
It's so pretentious how the British add an 'i' to the word titanum¡

Remember that the Briton that discovered/named aluminum named it thus, and it was only a newspaper that decided they could name it whatever they wanted that the second I got thrown in there. Disgusting.
Quote:
A couple notable examples are Resolution Independence announced at the 10.4(?) event and FaceTime going open source during the iOS 4(?) event.

Yep, both right.

The Briton didn't name it thus, he named it aluminum.
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post #48 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

I've been feeling like they needed to go somewhere besides aluminum for a while. It's not bad, just a bit old at this point.

Yes; glass is getting a bit old, too. Maybe they could use plastic.
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post #49 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's so pretentious how the British add an 'i' to the word titanum¡

Uh uh... The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) officially standardised on aluminium in 1990.
The pretension is all American....but only officially since 1925 btw, first in disagreeing with the naming by the great Sir Humphrey Davy and then having a list of metals comprising....well do you really say also chronum, rhodum, cadmum all before we get to say caesium... I give up, I can't defeat spellchecker anymore...1tongue.gif

Also, aluminium has a better rhythm to it than aluminum. Poetry Beats Prose.
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post #50 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

 
I've been feeling like they needed to go somewhere besides aluminum for a while. It's not bad, just a bit old at this point.
And yet when HTC came out with the unibody aluminum One everyone drooled over it. What material would you prefer Apple use over aluminum? 

Aluminium or Liquid Metal.
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post #51 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeJay2012 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

It's totally a guess that Apple will be using Liquid Metal. After Jony made his announcement, Samsung announced they will be soon be making their cases out of unobtainium. You heard it here first folks!

 



Haha. Close. Samsung will have cases that are unobtainium colored plastic
Apparently this is Samsung's new "premium" metal Galaxy phone:


You mean their new 'premum' phone. 😃
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post #52 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by groakes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) My comment went way, way over your cranum.


2) If you want to discuss the most abundant metal in the Earth's crust then the term aluminum predates aluminium. It was the British that decided after the fact and without consideration to any standards body to make the word use the -ium suffix to more closely match other metals on the periodic table.


3) Your argument that every American is pretentious for not converting their language in the last 24 years because of what the IUPAC wants is ridiculous.


Not that I really care but....

http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm
"...
The metal was named by the English chemist Sir Humphry Davy ..., even though he was unable to isolate it: that took another two decades’ work by others. He derived the name from the mineral called alumina, which itself had only been named in English by the chemist Joseph Black in 1790. Black took it from the French, who had based it on alum, a white mineral that had been used since ancient times for dyeing and tanning, among other things. Chemically, this is potassium aluminium sulphate...
Sir Humphry made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start, because it had more of a classical ring, and chimed harmoniously with many other elements whose names ended in –ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy.
The spelling in –um continued in occasional use in Britain for a while, though that in –ium soon predominated. In the USA, the position was more complicated. Noah Webster’s Dictionary of 1828 has only aluminum, though the standard spelling among US chemists throughout most of the nineteenth century was aluminium; it was the preferred version in The Century Dictionary of 1889 and is the only spelling given in the Webster Unabridged Dictionary of 1913. Searches in an archive of American newspapers show a most interesting shift. Up to the 1890s, both spellings appear in rough parity, though with the –ium version slightly the more common, but after about 1895 that reverses quite substantially, with the decade starting in 1900 having the –um spelling about twice as common as the alternative; in the following decade the –ium spelling crashes to a few hundred compared to half a million examples of –um.
..."

Which is right: aluminum or aluminium?
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post #53 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

The amusing thing about the British Preference for "AL-you-MIN-ium" is that it violates the rules of their own dialect (or Received Pronunciation™, anyway) against secondary stress. They have to say "MIL-i-try" and "SEC-re-try", but then they pick out a few words to violate their own rules with, apparently just to be different from the American pronunciation.

You can sometimes hear a momentary pause before each word as they shift mental gears before saying "AL-you-MIN-ium" or "OH-re-GAH-no" or "JAG-YOU-ar".

Maybe as a compromise, we should rename it:

iLuminum.

That way, we preserve the two 'i's (for the Brits), keep the American pronunciation (for the Yanks) and pay homage to Apple.
Edited by Benjamin Frost - 6/17/14 at 5:44am
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post #54 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

The amusing thing about the British Preference for "AL-you-MIN-ium" is that it violates the rules of their own dialect (or Received Pronunciation™, anyway) against secondary stress. They have to say "MIL-i-try" and "SEC-re-try", but then they pick out a few words to violate their own rules with, apparently just to be different from the American pronunciation.

You can sometimes hear a momentary pause before each word as they shift mental gears before saying "AL-you-MIN-ium" or "OH-re-GAH-no" or "JAG-YOU-ar".

I will probably start a sh!t storm against me here but ... The thing about 'British' pronunciation, (as you allude to with your parenthetical reference to RP), is drive 20 miles and it changes (historical invasions from various countries and the settlers' languages residually remaining in the working class, as they tended to be the least mobile through time, being the root cause). For anyone to infer there is any such thing as a common way to speak English in the UK is absurd. I grew grew there till I was in my 30's. I can no longer understand many dialects these days. Watching the World Cup Football on ESPN is an example, some of the commentators could be speaking double Dutch for all I can tell, I wish they would use American commentators (... if only they knew how to commentate on a game without using the time to have chats with each other and about anything but the game in hand). The American dialects are many but I have never failed to understand any, be it broad Massatchusettes or a deep New Orleans drawl. I have no idea why this is. After 25 years in the USA my 'ear' has changed, Liverpudlian, Newcastle Geordie, Manchurian .... could be foreign languages to me these days, and I grew up in the midlands not London.
Edited by digitalclips - 6/17/14 at 5:12am
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post #55 of 82
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

The amusing thing about the British Preference for "AL-you-MIN-ium" is that it violates the rules of their own dialect (or Received Pronunciation™, anyway) against secondary stress. They have to say "MIL-i-try" and "SEC-re-try", but then they pick out a few words to violate their own rules with, apparently just to be different from the American pronunciation.

You can sometimes hear a momentary pause before each word as they shift mental gears before saying "AL-you-MIN-ium" or "OH-re-GAH-no" or "JAG-YOU-ar".

Do the British pronounce it as 'al-you-min-ium', or 'alu-min-ium'?1smoking.gif
post #56 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

And yet when HTC came out with the unibody aluminum One everyone drooled over it. What material would you prefer Apple use over aluminum? 

I thought it was the screen?
 
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post #57 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Maybe as a compromise, we should rename it:

iLuminum.

That way, we preserve the two 'i's (for the Brits), keep the American pronunciation (for the Yanks) and give homage to Apple.

Very illuminating idea ... 1biggrin.gif
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post #58 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Do the British pronounce it as 'al-you-min-ium', or 'alu-min-ium'?1smoking.gif

The former ... as many syllables as possible ... 1biggrin.gif
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post #59 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


The former ... as many syllables as possible ... 1biggrin.gif

No, no, no, you've got us all wrong; it's as many letters as possible in the spelling, and as many different and argumentative pronunciations as possible in the saying :err:

 

See the many usages of -ough for much bewilderment.

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post #60 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Very illuminating idea ... 1biggrin.gif
Or ill-u-min-i-ating 1smile.gif

Oh English. The most stolen Germanic language around!
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post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Maybe as a compromise, we should rename it:

iLuminum.

That way, we preserve the two 'i's (for the Brits), keep the American pronunciation (for the Yanks) and give homage to Apple.

Very illuminating idea ... 1biggrin.gif

Nice one! You must have ruminated on that...
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post #62 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

The amusing thing about the British Preference for "AL-you-MIN-ium" is that it violates the rules of their own dialect (or Received Pronunciation™, anyway) against secondary stress. They have to say "MIL-i-try" and "SEC-re-try", but then they pick out a few words to violate their own rules with, apparently just to be different from the American pronunciation.

You can sometimes hear a momentary pause before each word as they shift mental gears before saying "AL-you-MIN-ium" or "OH-re-GAH-no" or "JAG-YOU-ar".

Do the British pronounce it as 'al-you-min-ium', or 'alu-min-ium'?1smoking.gif

I've always heard "you", I think. That's one good thing about (the most common) British accents (that we hear over here, anyway)—they haven't lost the palatal onglide in front of "u". This is one of the things that's spread from Noo Yawk all over the country since I was a kid: "nooz", "toon"... drives me nuts. That and the loss of the aspirated "w" ("Would you like some cheese with that whine?" is now a pun) and the "aw" sound in "dog". ("My dotter got a new dahg".) Well, those two features are New England rather than New York.
post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Do the British pronounce it as 'al-you-min-ium', or 'alu-min-ium'?1smoking.gif

The former ... as many syllables as possible ... 1biggrin.gif

Growing up in India, where we spoke a version of Br English, we always pronounced it as 'alu-minium'. 👳
post #64 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post
 

lol -

well, it's just that they're so poetic -

they had to make it rhyme with 'aluminium' after all.

Pfft. Here in the States we us alumaximum!

post #65 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

No, no, no, you've got us all wrong; it's as many letters as possible in the spelling, and as many different and argumentative pronunciations as possible in the saying 1bugeye.gif

See the many usages of -ough for much bewilderment.

Also remember the 'simpler' spelling of many words in the USA is a recent thing (relatively speaking lol) thanks to the work of that Scotsman Carnegie and his push for this (probably as a way of getting at the English [inside British joke]) through his Simplified Spelling Board and was partially accepted in the 1920's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Spelling_Board

I am continually amazed at the number of well educated Americans who are unaware of this and join in debates about 'silly English spelling v sensible American spelling', totally unaware how this came about. Had Carnegie's full list of suggestions been adopted American would be a laughing .. sorry, laffing stock 1oyvey.gif. Thankfully only a few words were changed .. e.g. colour to color and so on. Just read some of his crazy ideas list at the link above.
Edited by digitalclips - 6/17/14 at 7:55am
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post #66 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Which is right: aluminum or aluminium?

Both are right. This is language so there can be multiple right answers. The problem starts when people make claims about what is right for their dialect should also be right for other dialects. The problem then often escalates when one makes claims of what is the "pure and right" spelling of a word because of an etymology, which they oddly tend to get backwards.

Language has no inherent right or wrong; it's too fluid for that. Communication to an intended audience is the only concern.
Edited by SolipsismX - 6/17/14 at 8:02am

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post #67 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Growing up in India, where we spoke a version of Br English, we always pronounced it as 'alu-minium'. 👳

Right, me too (the pronunciation not growing up in India 1biggrin.gif) , but surely that is still five syllables.
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post #68 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Both are right. This is language so there can be multiple right answers. The problem starts when people make claims about what is right for other dialects because of what is right for their dialect. The problem then often escalates when one makes claims of what is the "pure and right" spelling of a word because of an etymology, which they oddly tend to get backwards.

Totolee rite, well sed. 1biggrin.gif
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post #69 of 82

All I have to say is Ives took some liberties in this statement

 

Quote:
Ive said Apple is well versed in employing new materials to solve design problems and pointed to the days when the company's laptops were made of plastic. Recalling the development of the titanium PowerBook G4, which launched in 2001, he said the exotic metal was used to realize a new thin-and-light form factor computer that could not be accomplished with composites.

 

Apple use a titanium stiffener in the PowerBook Duo back in the early 90's and they did this before any other company. It was use to make the plastics thinner and to deal with the heat issue that Plastic do not conduct heat away form electronics all that well. He makes it sound like he was the first to think this up. It was thought of long before the titanium Powerbook, the reason it was not done earlier was due to costs. 

post #70 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Is this the same NY Times that AI claimed Apple shut out in their profile piece on Tim Cook?

Your pretend bluster is off-key, no surprise.

The context for DED's headline was that the Times was shut out from access to Tim Cook. That is true.

Now we see in part two with Jony Ive that the intrepid reporters were used—as in exploited— by Apple to make a serious point about the Cook-Ive regime's product focus.

They were apparently shunted to Ive, who portrays Cook as having the commitment and patience to explore new materials and processes that set Apple's devices so far apart from other manufacturers. The reporters were manipulated by Apple, not that it mattered in the end so much, given the treachery of their kind of "journalism."

If DED had known this second part was coming, he might not have leaned so hard on that "shut out" formula.
Edited by Flaneur - 6/17/14 at 9:16am
post #71 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

All I have to say is Ives took some liberties in this statement


Apple use a titanium stiffener in the PowerBook Duo back in the early 90's and they did this before any other company. It was use to make the plastics thinner and to deal with the heat issue that Plastic do not conduct heat away form electronics all that well. He makes it sound like he was the first to think this up. It was thought of long before the titanium Powerbook, the reason it was not done earlier was due to costs. 

You're taking what the reporters said for what Ive said. He would not likely misrepresent, since he is a machinist. Being inaccurate gets you nowhere in that trade, except into trouble. In journalism, it can get you a Pulitzer.
Edited by Flaneur - 6/17/14 at 8:55am
post #72 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post
 

 

I wouldn't call it a 'rule', it's more like a custom or habit.


"What about the pirate's code?"

"They're more like guidelines actually."

post #73 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimMok View Post
 

Please Sharks with Lasers….

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiarius View Post
 

Nice thread, with the Barenaked Ladies tune a good catch.

 

Now, language lawyers (or rather barristers), please explain molybdenum:

 

      http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/british/molybdenum#

Updating this with more killjoy definitive expertise (for Al atomic number 13), with four pronunciations,

two in the Queen's English and two with American accent.

 

        http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/british/aluminium#

post #74 of 82

These discussions about pronunciation reminds me of a (completely OT) memory of listening -- or, trying to -- a conversation between Ian Rankin and Grant Morrison once.  Jeez.  Two guys from Glasgow ... I must have listened to that discussion like 20 times.

 

Now, back to our regular programming. :)

post #75 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

The amusing thing about the British Preference for "AL-you-MIN-ium" is that it violates the rules of their own dialect (or Received Pronunciation™, anyway) against secondary stress. They have to say "MIL-i-try" and "SEC-re-try", but then they pick out a few words to violate their own rules with, apparently just to be different from the American pronunciation.

You can sometimes hear a momentary pause before each word as they shift mental gears before saying "AL-you-MIN-ium" or "OH-re-GAH-no" or "JAG-YOU-ar".

I didn't think we had any rules against secondary stress. We make it up as we go along. 1smoking.gif
post #76 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


You're taking what the reporters said for what Ive said. He would not likely misrepresent, since he is a machinist. Being inaccurate gets you nowhere in that trade, except into trouble. In journalism, it can get you a Pulitzer.

wait reports do not put words in people mouths... To that point may not be an exact quote, but the intent is probably close.

 

We all know Apple act as if they had the idea first, and we all agree apple usually does a far better job than anyone else even when it was not their idea.

post #77 of 82
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet_Desperation View Post

Pfft. Here in the States we us alumaximum!

Sounds like alumaximium misspelled...... 1wink.gif
post #78 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet_Desperation View Post

Pfft. Here in the States we us alumaximum!

Sounds like alumaximium misspelled...... 1wink.gif

Or alumaxum...
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post #79 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

wait reports do not put words in people mouths... To that point may not be an exact quote, but the intent is probably close.

We all know Apple act as if they had the idea first, and we all agree apple usually does a far better job than anyone else even when it was not their idea.

Ok you want to take the article as it stands, he does NOT say or imply that they were the first to think of using titanium in this way, but he does say and imply that they were pushing design and manufacturing in order to make this material practical in a consumer product. Which is correct, as you yourself say. Don't make stuff up to criticize him with.
post #80 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

These discussions about pronunciation reminds me of a (completely OT) memory of listening -- or, trying to -- a conversation between Ian Rankin and Grant Morrison once.  Jeez.  Two guys from Glasgow ... I must have listened to that discussion like 20 times.

Now, back to our regular programming. 1smile.gif

I think it's time for this classic skit…

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