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Third-party chargers, Lightning cables reportedly damage iPhone power management IC - Page 2

post #41 of 66

So you're all eating this crap up, aren't you?

 

Well, I'll say it then.  Bullsh*t. 

 

Apple is saying this because they don't make money on third party products, so they're going for the FUD angle to scare people away from buying things that don't pay them.

 

Folks, you're just fine using third party cables, you're no more likely to burn out your iPhone than if you use a cable made by Foxconn for Apple than if you buy one made by Foxconn for Joe Schoe's iPhone Parts. 

 

Fortunately, the Lightning connector has a limited remaining lifespan anyway.  The EU is about to kick Apple's butt for not using the standard Micro USB connector, and I'd seriously doubt Apple will produce an EU phone and a rest-of-world phone, so we'll see the benefits of EU law here.  Conveniently enough, Micro USB is about the same size as Lightning, so Apple doesn't have to change the design much.   Maybe we'll see it with the iPhone 6.

post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

The title is talking about chargers and cables, not car chargers or plugging into laptops, or dashboard USB ports. They are already putting out DC. The combined AC/DC is the problem I think. Those tiny chargers converting AC to DC puts out a lot of heat in a confined space. We all know how the corners cut with the Chinese knockoffs and the dismal quality they have.

Auto chargers aren't a problem. It's a 12v DC system going down to 5vdc, if it even does.
Laptops aren't a problem. Most use an external AC adapter which will fry first or fry the laptop before it takes the phone with it.
Same with the other stuff.

From the linked article on mendmyi: "Another common reason for this is also charging your iPhone 5 from the cigarette lighter of your car. This does not regulate the voltage as well as the original AC adapter as the power is coming from the alternator. If you need to charge our iPhone or any electrical equipment in your car we would recommend a good quality inverter with your original charger and USB lead"
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

The problem is that iPhone (and other devices) are often used in situations where an Apple AC charger can't work or AC power isn't readily available.

The most common place would be in motor vehicles, and Apple does not sell their own car charger. They are all third-party accessories.

Sometimes USB is required for data or audio transfer (whether it be a hub, stereo amplifier, etc.) and an Apple AC charger cannot be used in place.

Because of these multiple scenarios, Apple really needs to make the charging circuitry more flexible and robust within reasonable limits. It is simply unrealistic to expect every iPhone user to only use an Apple AC charger in every situation. There will always be a handful of terrible dirt-cheap chargers that will destroy devices, but one should be confident in using the device with a decent third-party accessory.

I happen to stick with spendy Apple chargers and cables, but in vehicles, I rely on several third-party accessories because there is no Apple car charger.

Perhaps Apple could write iOS to reject bad power sources when detected, however that won't result in a happier user experience even if it protects the hardware.

I can't see another solution though. Apple have to do this IMHO ... "Charging stopped! This is NOT an authorized Apple charging unit and may damage your iPhone. Click here to accept liability and accept allowing this charger to run will invalidate your warranty'.
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
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post #44 of 66
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
Fortunately, the Lightning connector has a limited remaining lifespan anyway.  The EU is about to kick Apple's butt for not using the standard Micro USB connector, and I'd seriously doubt Apple will produce an EU phone and a rest-of-world phone, so we'll see the benefits of EU law here.  Conveniently enough, Micro USB is about the same size as Lightning, so Apple doesn't have to change the design much.

 

Don't let your hatred of Apple blind you or blunt your critical thinking:

Lightning to Micro
 USB Adapter

Lightning is superior to Micro USB: you don't have to worry about orientation of the Lightning plug.

A good idea which the USB group now propose for the next version of microUSB.

I wonder if the EU legislation will account for future changes made to USB design?

 

I'd be surprised and disappointed if the EU compels manufacturers to fit microUSB sockets into their devices.

I think the current practice of providing a USB charger into which you plug a cable specific to your mobile device is more than adequate.

post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post
 

Are you really completely unaware of Apple's Made for iPhone trademark licensing program?

https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/

Actually, yes. And I think most of the public is unaware of it, too.  "Works with iPhone" and "Compatible with iPhone" are essentially the same statement as "Made for iPhone" so I really don't think it carries much  weight.  But the point is, if a 3rd party is going to market an unlicensed adapter that doesn't adhere to the Apple standards for the product, they certainly aren't going to respect the magical words "made for iPhone"--they're going to say anything they like.

post #46 of 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post


From the linked article on mendmyi: "Another common reason for this is also charging your iPhone 5 from the cigarette lighter of your car. This does not regulate the voltage as well as the original AC adapter as the power is coming from the alternator. If you need to charge our iPhone or any electrical equipment in your car we would recommend a good quality inverter with your original charger and USB lead"

 

LMAO, you for real? It would works but it is utterly unnecessary to go from 13VDC to 115VAC to 5VDC. If you have any idea how this is accomplished, you would know that there is a lot more switching noise involved doing it that way. Much easier, cheaper, and efficient to take the 13VDC out of the car socket and regulate it down to 5VDC. I wouldn't get cough up on the Apple branded stuff specifically, but I wouldn't recommend getting those generic/no-name 2 for $1 USB chargers/cables either.

 

This is a good read on USB chargers if anyone is curious enough... http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html

 

 

post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

People buy a top of the line phone, then cheap out on the power brick? Come on. Stick with Apple.

The worst cables I have ever owned were Apple ones. They fray and break easily. I had a Magsafe power adapter catch fire only slightly damaging my previous Macbook Pro. At least the Apple Store gave me a free new Magsafe... And another one again later. My current Magsafe for my 2012 rMBP is in need of replacing as well.
Edited by Negafox - 6/20/14 at 8:45am
post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 

So you're all eating this crap up, aren't you?

 

Well, I'll say it then.  Bullsh*t. 

 

Apple is saying this because they don't make money on third party products, so they're going for the FUD angle to scare people away from buying things that don't pay them.

 

Folks, you're just fine using third party cables, you're no more likely to burn out your iPhone than if you use a cable made by Foxconn for Apple than if you buy one made by Foxconn for Joe Schoe's iPhone Parts. 

I like the news article is citing an advertisement for a third-party repair in Europe.  The last I checked USB and Lightning cables do not regulate voltage despite what these people are trying to claim. The symptoms the site is describing are fairly common smart phones issues and should not require an IC to be replaced. These symptoms are typical for using a shoddy or broken cable with any phone and generally go away with using a working cable. In worst case scenario, the connector in the phone is slightly warped causing a poor connection with the charging cable.


Edited by Negafox - 6/20/14 at 9:03am
post #49 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by rivertrip View Post

Apple can't prevent self ingition in a poorly designed charger, but it can control what happens inside the iPhone. Charge regulation for lithium ion batteries always is handled by the devices that contain the batteries.

The issue is the IC is burning out, not the battery it is meant to regulate.

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post #50 of 66
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

I wonder if the EU legislation will account for future changes made to USB design?

 

Nope, MicroUSB. This is why government has no place in determining what technology people use.

 

Originally Posted by Negafox View Post
They fray and break easily.

 

Nope.

post #51 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Nope.

 

Generally I agree with you, but I can't say with a straight face that any generation (have they altered the design at all, yet?) of Lightning cable that I've owned (and I owned 5 total) has been fortified enough to not break into pieces within 4-5 months. The original 30-pin connector that came with my original iPhone is still in one piece, yet, both my iP5 and iPM2 cords, plus two additional cords are no more. I have a single one that I'm toting around with the upmost care, but it's still cumbersome to know that it's my last spare until I go and purchase another one.

 

Unfortunately, I think the design of the lightning adapter (which is seemingly longer than the 30-pin) puts more stress on the wire right below the final thick nub, which wears it much quicker. All of my cables have broken in the exact same way, through different types of usages, so I wonder if Apple would be willing to replace one of them and save me a few bucks. Hopeful, but doubting.

post #52 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope.

I suppose there is no issue with third-party cables then since there is no need to replace one's original cable included with the device.
Edited by Negafox - 6/20/14 at 9:49am
post #53 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyWRX View Post
 

Quote:

 

LMAO, you for real? It would works but it is utterly unnecessary to go from 13VDC to 115VAC to 5VDC. If you have any idea how this is accomplished, you would know that there is a lot more switching noise involved doing it that way. Much easier, cheaper, and efficient to take the 13VDC out of the car socket and regulate it down to 5VDC. I wouldn't get cough up on the Apple branded stuff specifically, but I wouldn't recommend getting those generic/no-name 2 for $1 USB chargers/cables either.

 

This is a good read on USB chargers if anyone is curious enough... http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html

 

 

 

I am for real. Don't know about the author of that tip, though.

 

Anyway, the main point was that since onboard electronic voltage on a vehicle is not very tightly toleranced I could quite well envision that cheap USB-adapters for cig lighters relay voltage variation and hence might lead to an overstress in the phone's charging IC. Uhm, like I wrote before, no? :-)

 

 

Edit: Fixed typos


Edited by WonkoTheSane - 6/20/14 at 9:44am
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #54 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope, MicroUSB. This is why government has no place in determining what technology people use.


Nope.

Yup. The cable that came with my iPhone 4 was a frayed piece of junk within a year. Apple cables are horribly designed in the normal use durability department.
post #55 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

Unless, of course, the device is so poorly designed that it requires impedance-matched devices to work properly without damage. Hence, apple's warning about incompatible devices.

 

apple's warning? hmm, which part of "An iOS device repair company in the UK" is Apple?

post #56 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpantone View Post
 

The problem is that iPhone (and other devices) are often used in situations where an Apple AC charger can't work or AC power isn't readily available. The most common place would be in motor vehicles, and Apple does not sell their own car charger. They are all third-party accessories.

 

which is why apple runs the MFI program -- legit car chargers are compatible.

post #57 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post
 

Nope, chargers should limit current, just like any sort of CV/CC power supply does. Some non-Apple devices which charge at 1 A rely on this. They draw as much current as they can until the charger delivers ~4.6 V. I think the GoPro is an example. If you don't have current limiting, the charger will catch on fire if there's a short.

 

You should also be able to rely on authorized MFi chargers, who are supposed to follow Apple's spec. It's the fake or no-name junk chargers that are a big question.

 

agreed. here's a tear-down of an apple charger vs a knock-off, and explains why the cheap knock-offs mess things up:

 

http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html

post #58 of 66
Apple could solve this problem simply by charging REASONABLE prices for their accessories. I'm sorry, but $20 for a power supply is ridiculous. $20 for a 1 meter cable is ridiculous. $30 for a 2 meter cable??? That's unconscionable and abusive to loyal customers. Furthermore, the only cables I've had come apart at the seams were an Apple cable and an MFI certified cable from monoprice. The $2 knock-off cables have been "plugging away" with no signs of wear for a year and half now. I updated to iOS 7 using an $2 cable.

Apple has created this problem. If they were so concerned, they would get real with their acessory prices already and quit fleecing their customers.
post #59 of 66
Originally Posted by chris.com View Post
Apple could solve this problem simply by charging REASONABLE prices for their accessories.

 

They do.

 
I'm sorry, but $20 for a power supply is ridiculous.

 

Nope.

 
That's unconscionable and abusive to loyal customers.

 

It’s abusive to sell products that won’t explode or catch on fire, huh.

post #60 of 66
post #61 of 66
Originally Posted by chris.com View Post

2. You were saying....???

 

No, I have said.

 

Your link shows a foolish person sitting on a device, crushing it, and being surprised when it breaks. That’s not what we’re discussing.

post #62 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post
 

If you need a car charger, don't go for the cheapest one. Get one that says "Made for iPhone", something licensed. Or get a charger with a USB port and use an Apple-made Lightning cable. That's what I do with my iPhone 4 at the moment...inelegant but it works. My old 30-pin 12V cable only works with the iDevices that supported charging with the FireWire pins.

 

So I'm supposed to BELIEVE IT when the seller says "Made for iPhone", and assume other products without those words are not going to work? I'm not that gullible.  There is NO ONE selling a usb-to-lightning adapter who intends it to be used for a non-Apple device. Regardless of the magic words you quote. Because there is NO ONE with non-Apple hardware who has any use for a lightning adapter.

 

So your advice about the statement "Made for iPhone" is complete nonsense. All that's left is your urging that one should not buy the "cheapest" product among those being sold.  Nothing stops a shady manufacturer from putting a big price on a piece of crap.  So that advice is nonsense too.

 

Your comment is complete nonsense.

 

Made for iPhone doesn't mean that the company only makes an accessory for an Apple device; it means that it has been given the Apple seal of approval, which in turn means that it will be of a certain minimum quality. You should therefore only ever buy accessories that conform to the Made for iPhone standard.

 

In the context of this article, there is no way that a charger or cable that is in the Made for iPhone scheme is going to damage an iPhone. If such a thing occurred, Apple would rectify the situation.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #63 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

I have an iPhone 5 and suffer from unexpected shutdowns, I.e. All tbies fine until about 40% charge. Then the charge level drops within short time in steps to say 27%, 21%, 16 etc. Or just shuts down ubexpextedly. Upon plugging into the charger it immediately stars up again, showing about 30% level.

Could this be relatd to a damage of that chip?

I travel a lot and mostly use my 12V charger in the car plugged into the lighter.

As I read the article te issue may have been caused by the charger.

I also read to "at least" use an original lightning cable. Which I do. How would this protect the device from current or voltage in rush?

 

You have a faulty battery. I had the same problem. Took it to a Genius bar, they tested it there and then, and replaced the battery for free.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #64 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaverBoy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope, MicroUSB. This is why government has no place in determining what technology people use.


Nope.

Yup. The cable that came with my iPhone 4 was a frayed piece of junk within a year. Apple cables are horribly designed in the normal use durability department.

 

Nope.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #65 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.com View Post

Apple could solve this problem simply by charging REASONABLE prices for their accessories. I'm sorry, but $20 for a power supply is ridiculous. $20 for a 1 meter cable is ridiculous. $30 for a 2 meter cable??? That's unconscionable and abusive to loyal customers. Furthermore, the only cables I've had come apart at the seams were an Apple cable and an MFI certified cable from monoprice. The $2 knock-off cables have been "plugging away" with no signs of wear for a year and half now. I updated to iOS 7 using an $2 cable.

Apple has created this problem. If they were so concerned, they would get real with their acessory prices already and quit fleecing their customers.

 

Oh please. Go and buy a Palm Pilot or something.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #66 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


The issue is the IC is burning out, not the battery it is meant to regulate.

Where is the problem if the Apple IC burns out but ICs in other smart phones don't? The IC should be robust enough to handle the voltage imprecision that is common in USB chargers.

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