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Amazon's premium Fire Phone seeks to reverse Android's ratchet status - Page 2

post #41 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Whatever? Ok, in a thousand words, Fire sucks. Got it!

With DED articles, it's never a dull moment.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #42 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubbytee View Post

Jeff Bezos is Elmer Fudd.

Customers are listening to Amazon. I was in a liquor store Saturday and overheard a group of people talking about Amazon's drone delivery service. I was amazed that they were interested in it. The Fire Phone on AT&T might sell better than people here are willing to accept.
post #43 of 113

Amazon is getting worse and worse.

 

They're talking about ridiculous drones and phones? Maybe they should concentrate on getting regular orders out on time before getting all distracted with other nonsense. They can't even run their main business properly anymore.

 

I order products through Amazon from time to time, and the last order I made was a couple of weeks ago. It took about a week before they even shipped the item! After some digging and reading around, I found out that this is becoming more common now. The item was in stock, they're intentionally holding it back.

 

That is enough of a deal breaker for me to not order from them next time. When I order goods online, I expect the order to be shipped out pretty quickly. Anything else is unacceptable. And no, I am not ever going to pay for Amazon Prime, I'll just order from elsewhere.

 

As for their phone, I wouldn't want one if you paid me to have it.

post #44 of 113
Here we go. Let's see if we can get him to pull the developer card out of the deck, again. 1wink.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #45 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

 How many Amazon customers will spend the money when they're used to getting cheap hardware?

 

Wait what, that makes absolutely zero sense, are you actually insinuating that people who buy from Amazon only do so because they can buy cheap hardware. Sure there are deals to be found on Amazon but they are defiantly not the most inexpensive outfit out there. As Apple products are also sold on Amazon and in great numbers mind you are their products also considered cheap. You can buy servers that cost upwards of 60,000 dollars on Amazon. Your logic is absolutely ridiculous, Amazons customer base ranges from the individual looking for that rare Pokémon card to fortune 500 companies purchasing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of office supplies and computers for their offices.

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post #46 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Well according to 9to5Mac, Apple is rumored to be rolling out something similar this fall.

That's actually great news, MayDay is pretty fantastic, revolutionizes customer service. Now I don't have one of these FIre Phone's, nor would I ever want one but I do have a Kindle HDX. Even though I hate, hate FIreOS and have replaced it with a custom launcher, the one feature that I think every gadget in the world should have is MayDay.

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post #47 of 113

Android communist paradise! I must've missed that line from the article when I first skimmed through it, but I totally agree with it.

 

I can't stand commies, it's no wonder that I hate Android so much and most of their users too.

 

It's also very apparent to see that the Amazon phone is heavily influenced by iPhone design. Anybody who is not blind or a Fandroid can see that.

 

I have a pretty good track record of predicting failures and I don't think that this Amazon phone is going to do that well. Remember the Facebook phone?:lol:

post #48 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Wait what, that makes absolutely zero sense, are you actually insinuating that people who buy from Amazon only do so because they can buy cheap hardware. Sure there are deals to be found on Amazon but they are defiantly not the most inexpensive outfit out there. As Apple products are also sold on Amazon and in great numbers mind you are their products also considered cheap. You can buy servers that cost upwards of 60,000 dollars on Amazon. Your logic is absolutely ridiculous, Amazons customer base ranges from the individual looking for that rare Pokémon card to fortune 500 companies purchasing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of office supplies and computers for their offices.
I was referring to Amazon hardware like like the Kindle tablets.
post #49 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I was referring to Amazon hardware like like the Kindle tablets.

That's also not accurate, say what you want about FireOS but there is absolutely nothing cheap about Amazons hardware, the Kindle HDX for example has a Qualcomm 800, 2GB RAM, 1080P display for the 7 inch and an amazing resolution of 2560 x 1600 for the 8 inch, the build quality is probably the best I've ever seen for an Android tablet. The same thing goes for their Amazon TV, great specs and fantastic build quality. Yes, their software isn't what I would call desirable but the hardware they run it on is top notch.
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post #50 of 113

on what planet is an iPod a better e-reader than the kindle?

post #51 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


I can't stand commies, it's no wonder that I hate Androido so much and most of their users too.

Android, communism, I don't see the connection, it's more of an Anarchy and iOS is defiantly a Oligarchy. That's also an awful amount of people to dislike and a little absurd to think their are actually people out there who hate others solely on the basis of the technology they are using. "All we are saying is give peace a chance".
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post #52 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbine View Post
 

on what planet is an iPod a better e-reader than the kindle?

 

Planet DED, where the Kindle isn't the iPod of books because it hasn't been a massive financial success for Amazon. Meanwhile, the iPod touch and iPhone have apparently become the iPod of books because of... the massive financial success of the iBook store? :lol:

 

Personally, I don't need DED's revisionist history to know that Fire phone will be a flop. The Kindle is a great product. It does one thing, it does it well and it does it for a cheap price. The Kindle has a clear purpose. The Fire phone seems to be the complete opposite of that winning formula.

post #53 of 113
Reads like something in the North Korean government newspaper.
post #54 of 113
From the article;
Quote:
Throughout 2010, Android rapidly began replacing all the other low end "smartphone" platforms, quickly convincing the world's tech media that it would just as quickly destroy Apple's iOS, thereby reestablishing the glorious technology monoculture they fondly remembered during the rule of Microsoft's Windows. But that never happened.

Apple's market share of all phones sold has only gone up since 2007, ...
This is half right.
- Desktop Windows never established a complete OS "monoculture" because the Mac OS never disappeared. Windows just had a dominant monopoly.
- And that is what is happening with Google Android and smartphones. Android now has about 79% smartphone OS marketshare.
But like Windows on the desktop, the Apple alternative has not disappeared.

As for iOS gaining marketshare since 2007. Sure, that's right since iOS started with zero marketshare in 2007.
post #55 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

I doubt the OP was referring to a phone that *only* works over WiFi (since that would not be actually a phone but rather a VOIP client). He was more likely referring to something like what the RepublicWireless startup has been doing, which is to let phones make calls over both cellular and WiFi while (ideally) seamlessly transitioning between the two as the user moves about during calls.

 

I think pmcd was typing the first thing that came to his head and/or simply doesn't know enough about mobile tech, otherwise he'd know that what he was suggesting had already been tried and failed:

 

Rabbit Phone

History lessons for wireless networks

 

The original poster should also know that wifi calling is coming to the iPhones in iOS 8.

 

T-Mobile confirms support for Wi-Fi calling on iPhones running iOS 8

 

So once there it's up to the mobile networks to implement it:

 

EE ANNOUNCING LIVE TRIALS OF PHONE CALLS OVER WIFI

post #56 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's iPhone and iPod touch became the "iPod of books" far better than the Kindle

Any evidence for the claim that there are more people buying the iPad as an ebook reader than there are buying the Kindle?

 

I don't see it.  If I see anyone reading a book on a tablet sized device anywhere it's always a Kindle.  Not that I don't see iPads, there's loads of them too, but they're being used for games, or movies, or email, or web.  But rarely reading books, which is understandable, as they're not that good at it.  Kindles (not the Fire versions) are still much better than iPad for reading.  And most estimates put them approaching 10m sold per annum, which are very decent numbers.

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post #57 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

That's also not accurate, say what you want about FireOS but there is absolutely nothing cheap about Amazons hardware, the Kindle HDX for example has a Qualcomm 800, 2GB RAM, 1080P display for the 7 inch and an amazing resolution of 2560 x 1600 for the 8 inch, the build quality is probably the best I've ever seen for an Android tablet. The same thing goes for their Amazon TV, great specs and fantastic build quality. Yes, their software isn't what I would call desirable but the hardware they run it on is top notch.
You're still not understanding me. By cheap I mean price. People are accustom to paying a cheap price for Amazon's hardware because they sell it at cost (or a loss). I think a lot of people were expecting a $300 off contract phone from Amazon with maybe sponsored data plan to subsidize people's monthly data plans. Instead we got a phone with Apple/Samsung Galaxy type prices and nothing unique with pricing on the plan side.

Just curious though....with all this Amazon gushing...do you work for the company or something?
post #58 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Any evidence for the claim that there are more people buying the iPad as an ebook reader than there are buying the Kindle?

I don't see it.  If I see anyone reading a book on a tablet sized device anywhere it's always a Kindle.  Not that I don't see iPads, there's loads of them too, but they're being used for games, or movies, or email, or web.  But rarely reading books, which is understandable, as they're not that good at it.  Kindles (not the Fire versions) are still much better than iPad for reading.  And most estimates put them approaching 10m sold per annum, which are very decent numbers.
I won't dispute that the Kindle (not Fire) is a better e-reader but where are you getting those estimates from? Amazon had never released sales figures. Heck, people make fun of Amazon because they never label the y-axis on any of their graphs. Case in point the Prime graph at their last event.

2qsq6pk.jpg
post #59 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I don't get the point of this phone other than Amazon doesn't want to be renting space on other people's platforms/hardware. But it does seem like a phone built for Amazon's needs not consumers needs. I like what Ben Thompson said: just because people like Amazon doesn't mean they want to spend all their time buying things.

Amazon added all those cameras to create this unique "dynamic perspective" 3D thing. But by doing so it made the price of the phone similar to premium Apple and Android phones. How many Amazon customers will spend the money when they're used to getting cheap hardware?

 

Or to look at it from another angle, what does this phone offer to tempt those who buy high end hardware?

post #60 of 113

Getting Kindle sales numbers certainly isn't the easiest task, which is why I said estimates.

 

Seeking Alpha says ~20m, including the Fires: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2084763-estimating-the-value-of-kindle-hardware-sales-for-amazon

BusinessWeek said ~8m in 2010, before the Fire was released: http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/kindle-sales-figures-leak-beats-analyst-estimates-by-60/

 

I'm sticking a finger in the wind and saying ~10m, or on that order of magnitude, give or take a couple million.

 

 

I've also seen elsewhere the claim that Amazon shifts four times as many ebooks as Apple, which would be the more interesting number, since both Kindle Fires and iPads are used for much more than reading.  It wasn't sourced, but I'm trying to find more info on that.

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post #61 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Any evidence for the claim that there are more people buying the iPad as an ebook reader than there are buying the Kindle?

 

I don't see it.  If I see anyone reading a book on a tablet sized device anywhere it's always a Kindle.  Not that I don't see iPads, there's loads of them too, but they're being used for games, or movies, or email, or web.  But rarely reading books, which is understandable, as they're not that good at it.  Kindles (not the Fire versions) are still much better than iPad for reading.  And most estimates put them approaching 10m sold per annum, which are very decent numbers.

 

I have to agree with you, though I have a Kindle HDX (for magazines, podcasts and Spotify ), I use my Nook GlowLight for reading. Not only is the screen more comfortable for reading but I only have to recharge the Nook once every month, even when the battery level indicator reads less then 5%, I can still get a day or two out of it, crazy. It's also extremely light, in comparison to the iPad Mini Air which weighs almost three times as much. Not to mention that this thing is pretty much indestructible. I originally bought the Nook because it was the only device that the hospital I stayed in would allow in their Intensive Care unit but it won me over.  So before you jump all over me for suggesting that the iPad has any sort of weakness, just saying for the single purpose of reading an eBook I would rather use a Kindle or Nook as well. Though it is rooted and in no way a speed demon, it runs these programs fairly well too; Gmail, Gdrive, QuickOffice, OutLook, OneDrive, OneNote, Office and Opera.


Edited by Relic - 6/23/14 at 4:58am
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post #62 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by prokip View Post

Hey Daniel,

It seems you have had time to re-read Adam Smith's 'An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations'. Your under-grad professors would be impressed !! Remember though that Smith's earlier work 'The Theory of Moral Sentiments' is a more seminal work worthy of a re-raed also and would have greater application the scenario you paint.

For the rest of you reading this post and have no friggin idea what this all about, DuckDuckGo 'Adam Smith', grab a good long coffee and settle down for a good read...

 

I thought his piece was more of a satirical take on Marx.

post #63 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

In the longer term I don't see why people would push cell technology as opposed to having some other wireless solution which didn't require towers everywhere. Heck, even a WiFi "phone" makes more sense to me.

 

We already have one. It's called the iPod Touch.

post #64 of 113

If only Apple took it seriously.  It still has an underclocked A5 processor, right?

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post #65 of 113
Apple needs to do something to stop Amazon. Through government stupidity or collusion, Amazon is given a blank check to maintain its monopoly over books, ebooks in particular, and more and more over other products. Music and movies are still competitive.

Amazon can certainly afford to push, these products, though they may not prove to be at the level of quality of Apple. They may eventually get it right.
post #66 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post
 

I'll be upfront and say that most of you guys just don't get it; you don't understand why Amazon would build a phone to begin with, and so you try to frame it in terms that you can understand, which is direct competition with Apple.  

 

The question is not why Amazon would want to sell a phone. The question is why anyone would want to buy it.

post #67 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post
 

 

As is instant and seamless access to their content purchased through Amazon.

 

Aside from ebooks, Amazon's content selection sucks.

post #68 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

I've also seen elsewhere the claim that Amazon shifts four times as many ebooks as Apple, which would be the more interesting number, since both Kindle Fires and iPads are used for much more than reading.  It wasn't sourced, but I'm trying to find more info on that.

If Apple's own numbers are reliable, then it looks like it's probably more like Amazon sell 2-3 times as many as Apple: http://gigaom.com/2013/06/12/apple-we-have-20-percent-of-the-u-s-ebook-market/

 

I'd still say that douses the idea that the iPad is the iPod of the ebooks market pretty thoroughly.

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post #69 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post


Customers are listening to Amazon. I was in a liquor store Saturday and overheard a group of people talking about Amazon's drone delivery service. I was amazed that they were interested in it. The Fire Phone on AT&T might sell better than people here are willing to accept.

 

People are also interested in jet packs and hover boards. Let us know the minute Google brings any of these to market.

post #70 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

Wait what, that makes absolutely zero sense, are you actually insinuating that people who buy from Amazon only do so because they can buy cheap hardware. 

 

He was referring to cheap tablets.

post #71 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

That's actually great news, MayDay is pretty fantastic, revolutionizes customer service. Now I don't have one of these FIre Phone's, nor would I ever want one but I do have a Kindle HDX. Even though I hate, hate FIreOS and have replaced it with a custom launcher, the one feature that I think every gadget in the world should have is MayDay.

 

That's really insightful. Maybe Amazon should just sell MayDay as a standalone product.

post #72 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


That's also not accurate, say what you want about FireOS but there is absolutely nothing cheap about Amazons hardware, the Kindle HDX for example has a Qualcomm 800, 2GB RAM, 1080P display for the 7 inch and an amazing resolution of 2560 x 1600 for the 8 inch, the build quality is probably the best I've ever seen for an Android tablet. 

 

You're setting a high bar for quality there, lol.

post #73 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Well according to 9to5Mac, Apple is rumored to be rolling out something similar this fall.
That's actually great news, MayDay is pretty fantastic, revolutionizes customer service. Now I don't have one of these FIre Phone's, nor would I ever want one but I do have a Kindle HDX. Even though I hate, hate FIreOS and have replaced it with a custom launcher, the one feature that I think every gadget in the world should have is MayDay.

That or a helpful son.
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post #74 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbine View Post

on what planet is an iPod a better e-reader than the kindle?

Earth.
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post #75 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Getting Kindle sales numbers certainly isn't the easiest task, which is why I said estimates.

 

Seeking Alpha says ...

 

Among all the inaccurate and unreliable sources of information out there, Seeking Alpha is near the bottom. Anyone can get a piece published on that site.

post #76 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by bb-15 View Post

From the article;
Quote:
Throughout 2010, Android rapidly began replacing all the other low end "smartphone" platforms, quickly convincing the world's tech media that it would just as quickly destroy Apple's iOS, thereby reestablishing the glorious technology monoculture they fondly remembered during the rule of Microsoft's Windows. But that never happened.

Apple's market share of all phones sold has only gone up since 2007, ...
This is half right.
- Desktop Windows never established a complete OS "monoculture" because the Mac OS never disappeared. Windows just had a dominant monopoly.
- And that is what is happening with Google Android and smartphones. Android now has about 79% smartphone OS marketshare.
But like Windows on the desktop, the Apple alternative has not disappeared.

As for iOS gaining marketshare since 2007. Sure, that's right since iOS started with zero marketshare in 2007.

Apple's share of the phone market has gone up every year since it came out in 2007.
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post #77 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

I'll be upfront and say that most of you guys just don't get it; you don't understand why Amazon would build a phone to begin with, and so you try to frame it in terms that you can understand, which is direct competition with Apple.  But Bezos isn't trying to compete with Apple.  Bezos isn't trying to steal Apple's lunch (yet), or even grab the pickle off their burger.

Bezos is optimizing Amazon's business, which is in essence the argument leveled in this piece, minus all the Apple worship.

Kindle is an excellent case in point.  Although just about everyone here is quick to dismiss Kindle tablets, when you look at the real numbers, it's easy to see why Bezos and company think they are a grand idea.  Kindle tablets are estimated to own about 7 - 8% of the market, which is not as insignificant as everyone here would like to imagine.  It is higher, for example, than those guys up in Redmond.  Still it is a number that is obviously no threat to Apple.  But it may interest you to know that this seemingly insignificant 7 - 8 percent number has helped fuel 21% quarterly growth of Amazon's sales of media (video, books, and other content).  So that small 7 - 8 percent market share is driving almost 90% growth YOY of Amazon's content business, which is not at all shabby, and which more than justifies Amazon's approach.  And that business presently accounts for almost 8 billion dollars in annual revenue.  Map that number out with 1 or two years of continued 90% growth and it is not very hard to understand why Amazon is committed to their technology strategy.  Promoting their ecosystem is a huge plus for Amazon's business.


So against that, the sane question to ask is why wouldn't Amazon want to build a phone?  It is tailor made to drive the company's core business, and that is I might add not a shred different from how Apple uses the halo effect of their hardware to drive other aspects of their business.

FYI, it is estimated that grabbing just 3% of the Android phone market could net Amazon an additional $5 billion in annual revenues.  That's not chump change.

People don't understand how Bezos approaches things; he has a horizon of 5 to 10 years when it comes to business strategy, and it is a core value for him that he is willing to be misunderstood for a very long time, which is essentially what most of you are doing; you misunderstand what Bezos is up to and you all too quickly dismiss it.  


Amazon has built probably the best cloud services infrastructure in the world, which is quite surprising for a company everyone sees as a retailer.  But to clue you in on how good AWS is, it is the backbone for many successful tech companies, including Netflix, Adobe, Expedia, Pinterest, and more.  As a matter of fact, AWS just won a major CIA contract, and beat out IBM to do it.  Which serves, in many ways, as a testimony.


Amazon has also built an advertising and data harvesting enterprise that significantly exceeds that of competitors such as Twitter and LinkedIn, and which directly challenges Google in many ways.

Amazon competes directly against Netflix for streaming video, and quite well.

Amazon competes against Google and Apple for video and music content sales.

Amazon is a gargantuan retailer competing against almost everyone.

Amazon just built a payment processing service to compete against Paypal and others.

And I could go on.

My point is that there is a much bigger picture here than simply hawking phones, and I think that most of you laughing about the phone completely miss that very big picture; you don't see the many strategic ways in which selling a phone is a strong plus for Amazon's business, even if it never even comes close to challenging Apple in any way.

Have a nice evening.

You obviously missed the WWDC.

CloudKit has decimated AWS.
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post #78 of 113
Anther highly enjoyable read. I love your style of writing! Many thanks.
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post #79 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Apple's share of the phone market has gone up every year since it came out in 2007.

 

Not only has Apple's share of the smartphone market continued to increase every year, but Android's share peaked in 2012 and declined in 2013.

 

It's also important to remind everyone that this view of market share is flawed since you're grouping top of the line phones along with cheap, crappy devices. A more useful analysis would break smartphones and tablets into segments.

 

 

post #80 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


You obviously missed the WWDC.

CloudKit has decimated AWS.

CloudKit will help out some small iOS-onlystartup apps, but it doesn't offer anything like the scalability and flexibility of AWS, or its platform agnosticism.  It hasn't decimated anything yet, and it's unlikely it'll have a significant impact on any of the big storage providers.

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