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Google looks to squeeze Apple in emerging markets with new Android One program - Page 2

post #41 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You're referring to banking malware delivered via "phishing". All the mobile OS's are just as open to that, iOS included.

 

The plural of OS is OSes. It's not possessive nor a contraction, so no apostrophe.

 

Do you have links to cases of iOS malware on non-jailbroken devices installed via phishing attacks? I'd like to read more about them.

post #42 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post

Do you have links to cases of iOS malware on non-jailbroken devices installed via phishing attacks? I'd like to read more about them.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/01/new-phishing-attack-targets-apple-id-logins-with-compromised-sites
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post #43 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post

The plural of OS is OSes. It's not possessive nor a contraction, so no apostrophe.

Thanks for pointing it out. I should be much more careful with punctuation.
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post #44 of 91

If Google is really trying to squeeze Apple's hardware business, then Apple should build its own search engine or acquire DuckDuckGo and put the squeeze on Google's search engine business.  It really appears as though Google is definitely trying to step all over Apple's toes by enticing mobile hardware manufacturers to undercut Apple's mobile hardware business.  It really wouldn't cost Apple all that much to have a search engine and optionally enable it on all of Apple's mobile devices in one quick push.  I think that would really take a bite out of Google's search engine business in a very short time.  DuckDuckGo is a pretty decent search engine that gives good results.  Apple could probably carry out this tactic faster than Google can get Android One up and running.  It just seems like a no-brainer for Apple to do to weaken Google's hold on mobile devices.  If Android One is really a threat to Apple then I hate to see Apple sit back and do nothing about it.

post #45 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post


Android One still doesn't get around the fact that many security updates are at the lowest levels of the operating system, and Android One (or Google Play Services) can't fix those. They still require an old-fashioned OS update, which would have to go through the OEM's and carriers.

Of course it helps fix it. Google will be handling the software updates directly, bypassing manufacturers and carriers as it does with its Nexus program. That's one of the perks. I'm guessing you didn't read about it before commenting?
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post #46 of 91
So their doing what they've always done? Except this time with a crock cover for android.
post #47 of 91
This is nothing new from Apple's perspective. We already have the Moto E that's a stock Android Kitkat phone, with a 4.5" screen, dual core processor, and crappy camera, that's available for below $120. I don't think $20 lesser is going to be earth shatteringly different against a player like Apple.

This all happened before. PC's have gotten commoditized into sub $300 levels, even if you don't consider net books. While Apple steadfastly maintains its quality, price and market share.

The only difference, and advantage, for Apple, in mobile space - is that the hardware is typically an insignificant part of the overall cost of ownership. Secondly, phones are typically changed a lot faster than PCs, so resale values play an important part in Total Cost of Ownership.

Apple is also now taking in so much money, they are in a way going beyond commoditization - the best headphones in the world are now accessible "at cost", the best sapphire glass is now accessible "at cost". Same for Liquid Metal, same for battery technology, same for manufacturing processes. Apple owns almost everything that goes into the phone all the way down.

Apple is maintaining its margins, despite selling significantly better hardware each year because of this - they are actually becoming more efficient each year - it is just not visible, because each year there are expensive technologies like Retina Displays, Touch ID, etc that get added, and still margins stay the same!

Pretty soon, Apple will be having so much money, they can do this at a level that is simply not possible for anyone else to compete with - including Samsung. And the hardware improvements that add huge costs to the phone will start becoming rarer.

I expect that right around when Android gets its act together and comes up with a credible alternative to Apple - a decent phone that lasts 2 years, at a low price, Apple will be in a position to lower its prices significantly, without lowering its profit margins.

If Android One can be sold for $100, Apple can easily sell a high quality equivalent at $150, where it still makes 40% margins. Which would a customer rather buy - a junk phone for $100, or a fabulous phone that unlocks a safe ecosystem that is used by all the people who matter?

In fact, by the time Android gets its act together, I believe we will see a few malware disasters on Android that completely destroy all confidence that anyone has on that platform.

I am a futurist, and I cannot foresee any scenario where Android comes out ahead of Apple in a useful sense.

There's a reason why Tim Cook is the CEO and not someone like Jon Ive. The game at Apple today is to keep innovating as they always have been - but more importantly to sort out the logistics to such a level that they can lower the costs of their products without compromising on quality or margins.

While the world sees Tim Cook, they see a CEO who hasn't launched any innovative new products. But that's because they really don't understand what's happening behind the scenes. Today Apple is so far ahead in the innovation game, they can afford to slow down there - its 9 months, and we still don't have a 64-bit competitor to the A7! Not one decent phone with a good Usable biometric ID! Apple is spending these last few years optimizing its logistics. They are taking the most expensive parts of the phone, and investing billions of dollars to get these at prices that are below commodity levels.

Just take a look at the components which Apple has acquired or has prepaid in billions for: displays, flash memory, sapphire glass, liquid metal, battery chemistry, machining devices, manufacturing processes, LTE technology (via Rockstar), In house CPU design with huge payments being made to TSMC to help them get their act together on fabrication.

Almost 70% of what does into a phone today is accessible to Apple at a price below the most commoditized price possible - because they either own the technology, or because they have paid the money to help partners set up manufacturing plants to make these things.
Edited by macarena - 6/25/14 at 6:36pm
post #48 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You're referring to banking malware delivered via "phishing". All the mobile OS's are just as open to that, iOS included.

Incorrect.

 

On Facebook they call that "Vaguebooking." It refers to posting nebulous, incomplete statements in an effort to get people to respond. It's considered a social disorder.

 

When I see single-word, contrary posts like that in response to remarks that are obviously true it just makes me think the responder's reading comprehension is poor. If that's not the case and you actually have a reason for your contradiction, you should probably explain it. Otherwise you run the risk of being dismissed as lazy or crazy.

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post #49 of 91
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Originally Posted by THT View Post

Apple doesn't have a low cost play for iPhones. The iPhone 5c is currently a $550 phone, and will probably be a $450 phone by fall of 2014. Even the iPhone 4S will be on the order of $300 to $400 by then. That's mid-range at best.

So, Android One is not a play at Apple. Rather, it's maybe a response to AOSP vendors, which can be super low cost, that don't have Google Play services installed.
iPhone 5C is $100 cheaper with 8 gb model in other markets, so it is $450, and likely $350 later this year, simply however want this $100 android that is good for trash can games or a $350 one that is the quality of a $600 android
post #50 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

If Google is really trying to squeeze Apple's hardware business, then Apple should build its own search engine or acquire DuckDuckGo and put the squeeze on Google's search engine business.  It really appears as though Google is definitely trying to step all over Apple's toes by enticing mobile hardware manufacturers to undercut Apple's mobile hardware business.  It really wouldn't cost Apple all that much to have a search engine and optionally enable it on all of Apple's mobile devices in one quick push.  I think that would really take a bite out of Google's search engine business in a very short time.  DuckDuckGo is a pretty decent search engine that gives good results.  Apple could probably carry out this tactic faster than Google can get Android One up and running.  It just seems like a no-brainer for Apple to do to weaken Google's hold on mobile devices.  If Android One is really a threat to Apple then I hate to see Apple sit back and do nothing about it.

Why on earth would they want to do that? They're not into the business of trying to hurt any competitor, they are in the business of creating a better product than the competition. And while there is room for improvement of Google Search I don't think Apple has the know-how of creating a search engine. Every time they want something but is an area of expertise they do not posses they partner up instead of creating something themselves. Look at the first iPhone, many partners for data, yet they designed and built the apps in-house (weather, maps, stock et cetera).

As for DuckDuckGo, they are including that option in iOS8/OSX10.10. Funny that, three times the number 10 in one single OS. Oh well.
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post #51 of 91

I love all this concern-trolling and hang-wringing over Android "squeezing" Apple in a market it never entered in the first place. Apple is not making $100 phones, and never will. And that's perfectly fine. 

post #52 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post
 

 

These phones will get OS updates directly from Google.  No carrier involvement.  Just like Apple does and Google does with the Nexus and Google Experience phones do.  This is a great thing. 

Agreed,  I've owned more then a few Android products and the Nexus series have been the only devices in which I was completely satisfied. Sure the likes of HTC and Sony make better featured or even looking phones but the overall package is always missing something or their are so many damn features packed into the thing that it actually takes away from the experience. The Nexus 5 ticks all of the right boxes, performance, quality display, mid-sized, decent build quality, guaranteed updates directly from Google for 5 years and most importantly it is extremely affordable. The same thing goes with Nexus 7 and Nexus 10. The best part, because the prices are so affordable you don't have to lock your self into a 2yr contract to pay it off.

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post #53 of 91
1) Haven't budget manufacturers in emerging markets been jumping on the free Android for years now which is why their activation numbers are so high? Is Android One an even cheaper option or just the same cheap option that will allow these budget devices to be slightly more useful to help bring up that 1:4 revenue gap against iOS-based users.

2) The article says the iPhone 4S costs $450 before subsidies. I had thought $450 was the US price and that in India, for a variety of reasons it was closer to $600 USD.

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post #54 of 91
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Haven't budget manufacturers in emerging markets been jumping on the free Android for years now which is why their activation numbers are so high? Is Android One an even cheaper option or just the same cheap option that will allow these budget devices to be slightly more useful to help bring up that 1:4 revenue gap against iOS-based users.

 

I think the idea is to set a minimum spec for Android phones. Google is giving manufacturers a low-cost design with all of the R&D work done for them. It won't make economic sense for manufacturers to come up with their own design, even if it has lower specs.

It's exactly what Android has needed since the beginning.

post #55 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I think the idea is to set a minimum spec for Android phones. Google is giving manufacturers a low-cost design with all of the R&D work done for them. It won't make economic sense for manufacturers to come up with their own design, even if it has lower specs.
It's exactly what Android has needed since the beginning.

For the sake of Android users I hope it works but so far all of Google's efforts for unification of the platform have ranged from failures to bandaids.

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post #56 of 91
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Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post


Can you link some of those reports?

 

Why?

 

Doesn't Google search work as well as their ads?

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post #57 of 91
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Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post
 

To clarify: the malware is available for download within third party app marketplaces - places like Amazon's Appstore or Cydia. The Android One program looks to be pushing Google-controlled devices into emerging markets, which will reduce the importance of those third-party app stores.

 

Like Samsung's App stores?

 

First thing their shitty Apps do when nagging you to update them is ask you to change permissions to allow other sources.

 

Things like the crappy fitness apps on the S5.

 

Thus breaking all Google's pathetic efforts.

 

Updating installed apps is a way to bypass Google security don't forget Android is "open" for hackers to exploit.

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post #58 of 91
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Originally Posted by Relic View Post


That is absolutely not true, I won't defend third party Android phone manufactures but phones that carry the Nexus name are extremely secure. iOS is just as vulnerable to phishing attacks as Android is, in fact my Apple .me is the only account that I have ever had that was hacked, not just mine but my mother's as well, though the two were probably linked. 

 

You shouldn't have logged into .me on an Android phone.

 

;)

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post #59 of 91
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Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


Updating installed apps is a way to bypass Google security don't forget Android is "open" for hackers to exploit.

Google Android isn't open.
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post #60 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

Agreed,  I've owned more then a few Android products and the Nexus series have been the only devices in which I was completely satisfied. Sure the likes of HTC and Sony make better featured or even looking phones but the overall package is always missing something or their are so many damn features packed into the thing that it actually takes away from the experience. The Nexus 5 ticks all of the right boxes, performance, quality display, mid-sized, decent build quality, guaranteed updates directly from Google for 5 years and most importantly it is extremely affordable. The same thing goes with Nexus 7 and Nexus 10. The best part, because the prices are so affordable you don't have to lock your self into a 2yr contract to pay it off.

 

My Galaxy Nexus is less than 5 years old, updates stopped quite some time ago.

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post #61 of 91
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Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

If Google is really trying to squeeze Apple's hardware business, then Apple should build its own search engine or acquire DuckDuckGo and put the squeeze on Google's search engine business.  It really appears as though Google is definitely trying to step all over Apple's toes by enticing mobile hardware manufacturers to undercut Apple's mobile hardware business.  It really wouldn't cost Apple all that much to have a search engine and optionally enable it on all of Apple's mobile devices in one quick push.  I think that would really take a bite out of Google's search engine business in a very short time.  DuckDuckGo is a pretty decent search engine that gives good results.  Apple could probably carry out this tactic faster than Google can get Android One up and running.  It just seems like a no-brainer for Apple to do to weaken Google's hold on mobile devices.  If Android One is really a threat to Apple then I hate to see Apple sit back and do nothing about it.

 

"IF"  I think the comments above so the threat is really at the other low cost android manufacturers.   Therefore your ending sentence builds out a sob story that isn't.

 

Back to the top and deconstructing your non-arguments.

 

Your first sentence is all about a zero sum game.   It isn't (there is money in ads, and money in promoting content sales [ITMS, google play], and money in hardware.  Apple is content in the latter two, and competing in the first is more Apple's B*tchslap to Google, but it really just wants to keep the ecosystem consistent.   As for search, Apple is providing users choice, and in the app space it is choking off Google at the high end aspects of their revenues stream... apps and app usage (Maps, Siri, Mail, etc.)  Every App not feeding Google's intimate knowledge of the consumer chokes off Google's ability to feed target marketing information. 

 

And Apple allowing choice on the engines is even better than building your own.  Better 'openness.'

 

Google has no hold on mobile _devices_.   Samsung has a solid hold, but where Sammy's gripping, Apple doesn't want to sully its hands.

post #62 of 91
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Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

My Galaxy Nexus is less than 5 years old, updates stopped quite some time ago.

Supposedly it's because of the Texas Instruments chipset they used, and TI is no longer in the mobile business.
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post #63 of 91
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

For the sake of Android users I hope it works but so far all of Google's efforts for unification of the platform have ranged from failures to bandaids.

It would behoove Google to do its best in providing a better than decent UX on inexpensive devices. That could potentially get those users to eventually upgrade to a high end Android device instead of a iPhone.
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post #64 of 91
I am sick tried of hearing about trolling dukes with their stupid ideas and cheap smartphone. So who care about stupid smartphones.
post #65 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Why?

 

Doesn't Google search work as well as their ads?

Perhaps no, because I can't find any of those reports.

 

Well, Bing also does not find anything

post #66 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You're referring to banking malware delivered via "phishing". All the mobile OS's are just as open to that, iOS included.


Incorrect.

On Facebook they call that "Vaguebooking." It refers to posting nebulous, incomplete statements in an effort to get people to respond. It's considered a social disorder.

When I see single-word, contrary posts like that in response to remarks that are obviously true it just makes me think the responder's reading comprehension is poor. If that's not the case and you actually have a reason for your contradiction, you should probably explain it. Otherwise you run the risk of being dismissed as lazy or crazy.

Sometimes the essence of a statement is a lie, even though it may be factually correct. So it is with Gatorguy's post.
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post #67 of 91
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Sometimes the essence of a statement is a lie, even though it may be factually correct. So it is with Gatorguy's post.

Please explain. Accusations of lying are pretty serious.
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post #68 of 91
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Please explain. Accusations of lying are pretty serious.

I keep coming back, because I'm just dying to read his explanation.
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post #69 of 91
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Sometimes the essence of a statement is a lie, even though it may be factually correct. So it is with Gatorguy's post.

Please explain. Accusations of lying are pretty serious.

iOS users are more intelligent than Android users, which means that they are inherently less susceptible to phishing attacks. So whilst in theory both platform users are vulnerable, Android users are more vulnerable.
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post #70 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

iOS users are more intelligent than Android users, which means that they are inherently less susceptible to phishing attacks. So whilst in theory both platform users are vulnerable, Android users are more vulnerable.

LOL! 1biggrin.gif Excellent use of dodge and weave sir.

How about disposing of the silly, unhelpful and dishonest character attacks from now on and conducting an intelligent discussion when something is worth commenting on. Any kid can sling epitaphs. I think we're all adults here, at least as far as I know.
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post #71 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

iOS users are more intelligent than Android users, which means that they are inherently less susceptible to phishing attacks. So whilst in theory both platform users are vulnerable, Android users are more vulnerable.

How are you measuring intelligence?
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post #72 of 91
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

iOS users are more intelligent than Android users, which means that they are inherently less susceptible to phishing attacks. So whilst in theory both platform users are vulnerable, Android users are more vulnerable.

How are you measuring intelligence?

By using my brain.
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post #73 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

By using my brain.

And how do we know with absolute certainty that you're intelligent, or that your brain is an effective gauge for intelligence?
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post #74 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

iOS users are more intelligent than Android users

 

Oh yeah? *I* use iOS, and I'm so stoopid that I paid $200 to add a meagre 24GB of NAND flash to my iPhone! :lol: 

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post #75 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

My Galaxy Nexus is less than 5 years old, updates stopped quite some time ago.

 

Actually that is incorrect, you can download the factory images directly from Google here, though 4.3 is the latest version available, if you go to the Nexus developer forums they are also working on 4.4.4. However, if you have a model from a carrier, yes their isn't KitKat, but this isn't Google's fault as the source is available for them to use, that's why I always buy my Nexus phones and tablets directly from Google, unlocked, I will never, ever buy a phone on contract again!. This doesn't mean you're SOL though, if you go to the XDA forum here there are numerous 4.4 ROM's available and because all Nexus devices have an unlocked or easily unlockable bootloader there is a Galaxy Nexus Toolkit available for Windows and Mac that will install whatever you want, it's also idiot proof. I know what your going to say, your not a hacker and you shouldn't have to do this and your right but this is the reality of the situation when you buy an Android phone from a carrier. That being said though the amount of independent developers who work on the Nexus devices almost guarantees that you will always have the latest and greatest even if you buy from a carrier. Also, Google does support their phones and tablets for a very long time but you have to buy from them and pay the unlocked cost, which by the way isn't much, especially when calculate in the premium carriers add to the contract. The Nexus 5 starts at 350 dollars for the 16GB model and 400 for the 32GB.

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post #76 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

You shouldn't have logged into .me on an Android phone.

 

;)


Haha, it was actually before I had an Android phone, I was rocking a Nokia Communicator at the time and the first gen iPad but I think it was my MacBook that was hacked, who knows, I stopped using .me though.


Edited by Relic - 6/27/14 at 2:51am
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post #77 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


iOS users are more intelligent than Android users, which means that they are inherently less susceptible to phishing attacks. So whilst in theory both platform users are vulnerable, Android users are more vulnerable.

 

:mad:

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post #78 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

iOS users are more intelligent than Android users...

Apple ][ is that you?

Yes, lame. But perhaps you're referring to one of those "Are iPhone users more educated than Android users?" surveys, which can be a fun read, though this one is three years old, so probably useless now:
Quote:
"Considering that the most popular apps on the Iphone are games, and with Android, it's customs ROM's, programs, and other "techie" stuff. I think they have it backwards."

"Considering that most iphone users are preteen girls, I would have to disagree."

"Amusing .
IPhone users tend to lead yet they always buy an Iphone ........"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I will never, ever buy a phone on contract again!


[...]

Also, Google does support their phones and tablets for a very long time but you have to buy from them and pay the unlocked cost, which by the way isn't much, especially when calculate in the premium carriers add to the contract.

I buy directly as well, from Apple, because it is cheaper to get the phone and a phone plan separately.

Will Google one day tell their partnering carriers they cannot alter Android OS in any way? No OS updates from carriers, only Goole allowing people to update their OS? Feasible?
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post #79 of 91
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Sometimes the essence of a statement is a lie, even though it may be factually correct. So it is with Gatorguy's post.

 :lol:

 

What hokum!

 

What is the "essence" of Gatorguy's post then?

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post #80 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Actually that is incorrect, you can download the factory images directly from Google here, though 4.3 is the latest version available, if you go to the Nexus developer forums they are also working on 4.4.4. However, if you have a model from a carrier, yes their isn't KitKat, but this isn't Google's fault as the source is available for them to use, that's why I always buy my Nexus phones and tablets directly from Google, unlocked, I will never, ever buy a phone on contract again!.

How are you doing Relic?

How can it not be Google's fault? If Apple can do it with their "limited" market share, why can't Googs do it with their "winning" market share? Fact is , Google doesn't give a shit. You still get ads in 2.X as you would with 4.X.
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