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Amazon said to be 'increasingly ruthless' in negotiations with UK publishers - Page 2

post #41 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

But Amazon operates with such a small profit margin that they are allowed to be unethical and have government ordained monopolies¡
Amazon, especially with the introduction of the Fire phone, is slowly but surely killing small business across the country. Consumers will walk into a local store to see, touch & feel the object they are shopping for and then will use their Firefly app to order online.

Perfect example is a shoe store.

1) Walk in.
2) Get perfectly fitted by a professional
3) Ask to try on "one last pair"
4) Salesman walks into the stock room to retrieve "one last pair" thinking he made a great sale

5) Meanwhile, consumer scans UPC with Firefly, finds much better deals
6) When salesman returns, fake an "emergency" and walk out, only to order on Amazon.

It happens multiple times daily in the shoe store across from my shop and it's putting him out of business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

LOL. They should call it the Cote-Bromwich Reading Tax.

Bloody fools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I find it amazing that Amazon is at such odds with the Book Publishing world and also the creators of the books they sell. I see nothing in Amazon that reveals a positive view of the future of the industries that it lives off, nor of the world as a sustainable place for creators, workers and consumers alike. Amazon has turned ecommerce into something very ugly. I like convenience and low prices as much as the next guy but what Amazon is practicing is more akin to a scorched earth policy for its own benefit. It is a horrible company.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/25/new-amazon-terms-book-industry-report-concessions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave MacLachlan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTylerDurden View Post

Amazon is the Wal-Mart of today, except they don't convert local jobs to low paying ones. They eliminate them completely. This is a slippery slope. Under no circumstances should a publisher allow Amazon to reprint their titles.
Amazon, in its own unique way, is actually even worse than that. The vast majority of "amazon" jobs are through temp agencies, only.


Ya' know ...

Wouldn't it be interesting if a startup business was used to "Showroom" Amazon ...

It is fairly trivial to harvest product model numbers, pictures, prices, reviews, suppliers, etc. from any web site ... then relink to another site ... which offers better prices/service and beats Amazon at its own game ...

Mmm ... One-click underpricing!
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post #42 of 81
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Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

I agree but the DOJ would say this is anti-competitive behavior and go after the publishers again. I've always wondered why the reseller gets to do whatever they want to (as long as it's Amazon) while the publisher and author are held hostage. If the author wants to sell their book for $1000 why should a reseller have the right to drop that price? Would Amazon actually pay this author $1000 and turn around and sell it for $9.99 just to push it's garbage products?

 

The problem with people today is they treat everything as having the same value. All books, all music, all movies are of equal value. Of course this only lasts until they want to sell something, then its value is much more than anyone else's.

No.  There's no regulation that says a publisher has to sell to everyone and they certainly don't have to sell to anyone who doesn't want to pay their wholesale price.      If Amazon wants a 65% discount from list and the publisher only wants to give a 55% discount or the publisher doesn't want to let Amazon print books when they run out of stock and the publisher can't supply additional copies immediately (which is what Amazon is indeed asking for), they don't have to.    Let's not make up regulations that don't exist. 

post #43 of 81

Interesting that this is spreading to the UK where the Competition and Markets Authority to investgate abuses of monopolies. This appears to be exact that and in my view should be investigated.  https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/competition-and-markets-authority

post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

And yet, the worst DOJ in the history of DOJs, a DOJ with a total disregard for the law and the constitution, are going after Apple.

I thought this was a british publishing house & smaller publishers in the UK? What is the DOJ have to do with the UK? Please stop regurgitating delusional nonsense that you can't back up.

post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

Does the DO have the ability to do anything about action occurring in the EU and the UK or are people just ranting without reading the article. Or have I just misread the article?

One of those knee jerk reactions I'd say. Of course the DoJ has no power over what occurs in another country.
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post #46 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

Does the DO have the ability to do anything about action occurring in the EU and the UK or are people just ranting without reading the article. Or have I just misread the article?

One of those knee jerk reactions I'd say. Of course the DoJ has no power over what occurs in another country. Federal government department like the IRS, Immigration, State, BTF ...

Fixed that for you!
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post #47 of 81
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

An Amazon whorehouse

 

Fixed that for you, AI.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECats View Post
 

If you have ever wondered how the big music labels came to be producing rote musical acts, you're watching the answer now with books. Unlike music however, the drastically reducing cost of technology won't magically give new authors the capital and oversight they need to finish a book.

 

Indeed the agency model could have fixed much of this, but we won't really see anything like that for years now.

 

I live in a country where the agency model is mandated by law on books and not on music since 1985 or so. But the publisher cannot change the price on same quality edition afterwards.  The net result is that books in France are rather cheaper than anywhere else in EU (especially on hardcovers as you cant jack up prices on new and bestsellers), small book sellers are still alive and thriving when they are good at counselling, and the only one who have problems with amazon are the local equivalent to Barnes&Nobles. Those are dying mostly because they relied on music and DVD sales which have gone poof. Amazon cannot lower the price more than 5% and only by hitting their own margin.

 

On the music side, Walmart equivalents and Amazon had killed the small ones long before anybody was only buying digital. As the price was free to set and they were buying in high volumes they were able to sell almost at cost and push the others out of market

 

Sure the price is fixed by the publisher in agency model, but as they are in seriously cuthroat competition between them they are forced to keep it as low as possible.

post #49 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


Government is good... Repeat after me... Government is good...

 

If government isn't good, we'd damn well better make it good!  A complex organism can't function without regulation.  Shall we let companies assassinate each other's leaders?  Maybe manufacturers should save money by dumping their toxic waste into your yard?

post #50 of 81
Thank God we were all saved from Apple
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post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post
 

Amazon, especially with the introduction of the Fire phone, is slowly but surely killing small business across the country. Consumers will walk into a local store to see, touch & feel the object they are shopping for and then will use their Firefly app to order online.

 

Perfect example is a shoe store.

 

1) Walk in.

2) Get perfectly fitted by a professional

3) Ask to try on "one last pair"

4) Salesman walks into the stock room to retrieve "one last pair" thinking he made a great sale

5) Meanwhile, consumer scans UPC with Firefly, finds much better deals

6) When salesman returns, fake an "emergency" and walk out, only to order on Amazon.

 

It happens multiple times daily in the shoe store across from my shop and it's putting him out of business.

It's kind of ironic that the behaviour you've described is exactly what Amazon practises every time they sell something, especially books. The publishers do all the "heavy lifting" .... editing, working closely with the author, book tours, promotions, etc. etc.......and then Amazon walks in and undercuts them on price, making it almost impossible to compete, thus resulting in the closing of hundreds, if not thousands, of book retailers.

 

The thing is, it's us ... the consumer, who is the "bad guy" here. We keep on insisting on lower and lower prices and never once do we question the results of our never ending search for "the best price". We never ever consider the "cause and effect" and if we do, by chance, then we "rationalize" our purchases through companies like Amazon, as just a drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things so ....no harm, no foul. Where are the boycotts of Amazon and Walmart and all the other similar companies who thrive on creating the race to the bottom (price wise) while putting North American companies out of business. People, wake up! There is a price to be paid for buying "the cheapest". 

 

To paraphrase a famous comic strip character  .... I have seen the enemy ... and the enemy is us.

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post #52 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinglesthula View Post

Good thing the consumer is being protected from Apple.

...and Apple was protecting Publishers as well... are you just kidding around or do you beleive that consumers are the only thing needing some attention?

 

Apple attempted to do an iTunes Store approach to publishing because the industry is getting hammered by players like Amazon. Publishing is changing radically, not dying overall. (There is "some" demand for paper books -- just not from me.) But unfortunately, I believe, DoJ overreached in the scope of their prosecution of Apple. Support Publishing and their employees.

post #53 of 81

I have iBooks & Kindle on my iPad.

The reason I get most of my ebooks from Amazon is the selection - history, classics, sci-fi - and I'm not looking for top 40 or mainstream.

If iBooks had what i wanted then I'd gladly stay in the Apple's ecco system.

post #54 of 81
They (Amazon) are just getting started. Monopolies are good for no one. We will see what the U.K does.
post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

It's kind of ironic that the behaviour you've described is exactly what Amazon practises every time they sell something, especially books. The publishers do all the "heavy lifting" .... editing, working closely with the author, book tours, promotions, etc. etc.......and then Amazon walks in and undercuts them on price, making it almost impossible to compete, thus resulting in the closing of hundreds, if not thousands, of book retailers.

The thing is, it's us ... the consumer, who is the "bad guy" here. We keep on insisting on lower and lower prices and never once do we question the results of our never ending search for "the best price". We never ever consider the "cause and effect" and if we do, by chance, then we "rationalize" our purchases through companies like Amazon, as just a drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things so ....no harm, no foul. Where are the boycotts of Amazon and Walmart and all the other similar companies who thrive on creating the race to the bottom (price wise) while putting North American companies out of business. People, wake up! There is a price to be paid for buying "the cheapest". 

To paraphrase a famous comic strip character  .... I have seen the enemy ... and the enemy is us.
Yep we think we should get everything for cheap. We discount the 'blood, sweat and tears' that go into creating something from scratch because we can go to a website and 'one-click' and via the cloud it winds up in our mobile library. While this mindset persists companies like Amazon will keep squeezing small businesses till they cease to exist. We mismanage our finances to the extent that we can only afford to buy everything at discount prices. Very sad.
post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

Two words for everyone. "Boycott Amazon!"

LOLOL why? Because I pay less?

Ruthless works. Look no further the Steve Jobs approach to $.99 iTunes.
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
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Where's the new Apple TV?
 
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post #57 of 81
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post
LOLOL why? Because I pay less?

 

Don’t act stupid.

 
Ruthless works.

 

Illegal monopoly doesn’t.

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post #58 of 81
Reading this just made my blood boil.

This is what the stupid dumb f**k lawyers at the US Department of Justice and their imbecilic boss Eric Holder has brought about. The biggest collection of empowered moronicity that we've seen in a long time. Who the f**k ever expected that the DoJ, under a Democrat no less, would sue to restore a monopoly that was demolished by a new entrant? That has never ever happened in the US before. WTfreakingF?
post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Don’t act stupid.

Illegal monopoly doesn’t.

Monopolies are not illegal. The government wouldn't be granting them if they were.
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post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Don’t act stupid.

Illegal monopoly doesn’t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Reading this just made my blood boil.

This is what the stupid dumb f**k lawyers at the US Department of Justice and their imbecilic boss Eric Holder has brought about. The biggest collection of empowered moronicity that we've seen in a long time. Who the f**k ever expected that the DoJ, under a Democrat no less, would sue to restore a monopoly that was demolished by a new entrant? That has never ever happened in the US before. WTfreakingF?

Did I miss somewhere that Apple or anyone else can't sell books? Or for a lower price?
Barnes & Noble did this to the mom & pop shops loong before Amazon ever existed. No my worry if the publishing houses couldn't adapt to the digital age and sell some other way.
Too late now.
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
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Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
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post #61 of 81
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Monopolies are not illegal.

 

Nor did I say they were. Please read the post.

 
The government wouldn't be granting them if they were.

 

HOLY FREAKING CRAP, THE DELUSION AND FALLACY.

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post #62 of 81
@pazuzu

To answer the question in your sig: "Where's the new Apple TV?"


Here's what I think:

The new AppleTV will use the A8X chip with More RAM, Better CPU/GPU and better WiFi -- more storage.

I think they need this new A8X because they need more RAM to play console quality games which can better exploit Metal and the GPU. Better WiFi will allow faster downloads, AirPlay and crossloads from a Mac or Home Server.

The trick is when to release it? I suspect that it will be sometime before the iPhone/iPad -- late July or early August. Price --> $149. Run a special version of iOS 7 that supports Metal.
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post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nor did I say they were. Please read the post.

HOLY FREAKING CRAP, THE DELUSION AND FALLACY.

You've never heard of a natural monopoly?
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post


LOLOL why? Because I pay less?
 

Read post 51, my original post and Newbee's reply. Paying less is not always good. When local business is out of business, forcing you to drive 30 minutes out of your way or forcing you to shop the Internet, then you'll understand why. 

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post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post
 

It's kind of ironic that the behaviour you've described is exactly what Amazon practises every time they sell something, especially books. The publishers do all the "heavy lifting" .... editing, working closely with the author, book tours, promotions, etc. etc.......and then Amazon walks in and undercuts them on price, making it almost impossible to compete, thus resulting in the closing of hundreds, if not thousands, of book retailers.

 

The thing is, it's us ... the consumer, who is the "bad guy" here. We keep on insisting on lower and lower prices and never once do we question the results of our never ending search for "the best price". We never ever consider the "cause and effect" and if we do, by chance, then we "rationalize" our purchases through companies like Amazon, as just a drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things so ....no harm, no foul. Where are the boycotts of Amazon and Walmart and all the other similar companies who thrive on creating the race to the bottom (price wise) while putting North American companies out of business. People, wake up! There is a price to be paid for buying "the cheapest". 

 

To paraphrase a famous comic strip character  .... I have seen the enemy ... and the enemy is us.

Well put and spot on. I shop local, exclusively. It's only when what I seek cannot be found locally do I shop outside my area or go to the Internet.

 

You, my friend, get it.

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post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

LOLOL why? Because I pay less?

Ruthless works. Look no further the Steve Jobs approach to $.99 iTunes.

That wasn't ruthless. Music was being pirated for free.
post #67 of 81

All the book makers need to get together and make a deal with someone else... oops. But they still could work with Apple to make their products on iBooks higher quality than Amazon. Better spell checking, no DRM. Quality works.

post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

All the book makers need to get together and make a deal with someone else... oops. But they still could work with Apple to make their products on iBooks higher quality than Amazon. Better spell checking, no DRM. Quality works.

Sounds like an business opportunity for a startup that will start by selling books, like Amazon did. Perhaps a shot across their bow with a name like Euphrates (doesn't seem like anyone is doing much with the site). Mesopotamia is the birthplace of writing, after all.

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post #69 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilly33 View Post


We mismanage our finances to the extent that we can only afford to buy everything at discount prices. Very sad.

 

And they can't afford to buy a cell phone. They have to finance it.

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #70 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

All the book makers need to get together and make a deal with someone else... oops. But they still could work with Apple to make their products on iBooks higher quality than Amazon. Better spell checking, no DRM. Quality works.

There's a little more to it than spell checking. Editing, copy editing, typesetting, proofreading, design, layout, page proofs, indexing, cover art, and more. Months of staff work for a relatively simple book. Publishers perform a huge service in production, never mind acquisition, author and project development, publicity, distribution, all the bookkeeping, etc.
post #71 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Reading this just made my blood boil.

This is what the stupid dumb f**k lawyers at the US Department of Justice and their imbecilic boss Eric Holder has brought about. The biggest collection of empowered moronicity that we've seen in a long time. Who the f**k ever expected that the DoJ, under a Democrat no less, would sue to restore a monopoly that was demolished by a new entrant? That has never ever happened in the US before. WTfreakingF?

This Amazon job is not necessarily a product of the visible justice department. The last time this subject came up, we had a poster from France who seemed to suspect a deal between Amazon and certain nosey intel agencies. Of course no patriotic American would want to believe such a thing. Nor would one want to risk one's reputation as a sophisticated observer by getting emotional over what might only be the very surface of the story.
post #72 of 81

Much as I like Amazon and do use them for many purchases. I don't agree with the wholesale destruction of businesses up and down the High Street. I know capitalism is all about this type of growth/destruction, but for just one company to have so much power and a growing power over the suppliers will only end in tears...for the consumer.

post #73 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbine View Post

Much as I like Amazon and do use them for many purchases. I don't agree with the wholesale destruction of businesses up and down the High Street. I know capitalism is all about this type of growth/destruction, but for just one company to have so much power and a growing power over the suppliers will only end in tears...for the consumer.

You forget that Amazon only has power because consumers like you give it to them. Remember that the next time you choose to by from Amazon (or Wal-Mart for that matter) instead of the local business owners up and down High Street that you claim to lament for the destruction of. Those destroyed businesses wished people like you would buy from them instead. That's all it takes.

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post #74 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

And yet, the worst DOJ in the history of DOJs, a DOJ with a total disregard for the law and the constitution, are going after Apple.

I thought this was a british publishing house & smaller publishers in the UK? What is the DOJ have to do with the UK? Please stop regurgitating delusional nonsense that you can't back up.


Calm down. That's just Apple ][ .. its normal for him and actually one of his less repulsive comments.

post #75 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.....

Ya' know ...

Wouldn't it be interesting if a startup business was used to "Showroom" Amazon ...

It is fairly trivial to harvest product model numbers, pictures, prices, reviews, suppliers, etc. from any web site ... then relink to another site ... which offers better prices/service and beats Amazon at its own game ...

Mmm ... One-click underpricing!

Then do it and get rich !

post #76 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniwha View Post
 


Calm down. That's just Apple ][ .. its normal for him and actually one of his less repulsive comments.

I was calm.

post #77 of 81
 Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


You forget that Amazon only has power because consumers like you give it to them. Remember that the next time you choose to by from Amazon (or Wal-Mart for that matter) instead of the local business owners up and down High Street that you claim to lament for the destruction of. Those destroyed businesses wished people like you would buy from them instead. That's all it takes.

 

The problem is that to get to the 'High Street' means I have to use my car. So for me I always try to weigh the total impact of my purchases. Pollution, congestion all factor in on the equation. I've been many times to the USA and California, especially. I despaired that to buy the simplest item meant a drive in the car, because the mall was too far to walk to. 

At least in the UK, most cities have a compact centre, making shopping locally much easier for the city dweller.

I'd love an alternative to Amazon and often use ebay, which at least does support the small business in allowing them to access a wider audience.

TBH, politicians have a lot to answer for when it comes to the destruction of the High Street. High commercial overheads are driven by local councils wanting a bigger slice of the pie. So it's no wonder that the likes of Amazon have gotten so big and powerful.

post #78 of 81

This state alone tell it all if this is in fact true.

 

Quote:
Among the concessions sought by Amazon are the right to print its own versions of popular books if the publisher cannot keep pace with demand as well as a new "most favored nation" clause that would prevent publishers from offering other distribution channels terms -- including new e-book agreements -- that would be unavailable to Amazon itself, according to the BBC.

 

This goes to the point I have always made about books they are not a commodity and thus not subject to free market pricing, It always comes down to how may the author/publisher wants for a book and what the consumer is willing to pay. Amaizon is trying to make books a commodity. They want to drive up demand there by driving up supply. publishers know if you over produce the price will be driven down. They fight to over produce, they need just enough to launch a book, getting this number right is not easy. This is how Amaizon got into the book business, buying up the excess inventory as very low prices then dumping it on the market. This is all good for the consumer since you all pay less, but if the publisher go out of business or the authors do not make money then you will not have books to buy.

 

Well Amazon is going to fix that problem they going to cut the middle man out. Kind of what Apple first attempted with itunes, but apple learns to play nicely with the record companies so they can stay in the middle of apple and the musicians. This is way no person can directly publish their music to Itunes, you have to be a record company, I suspect the same will hold true for books, only publishers will be allow to sell books to Apple not the creator.

 

Amazon is attempting to cut the publisher out and over product books so they can drive the price down. You decide if this is good or bad for consumers or not.

post #79 of 81
Please buy your books and ebooks anywhere but amazon. They are killing publishers and reducing the income of authors.
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post #80 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by oseame View Post

Please buy your books and ebooks anywhere but amazon. They are killing publishers and reducing the income of authors.

How are they doing that? Publishers and authors make the same money with either Amazon or Apple.
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