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Samsung predicts massive profit decline, blames slumping smartphone sales - Page 2

post #41 of 175
The Next Big Thing (That Nobody Wants)
post #42 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post


I can be. Because of Samsung's shady dealings with Apple and their offensive marketing in the cellphone arena I actively avoided buying their televisions for my last two television purchases. Samsung's mobile division's marketing strategy has an impact on the company as a whole beyond simply losing profits in the mobile market.

I also had a samsung Plasma. When I went to upgrade to a little larger, I made it a point not to even look at Samsung TVs. I still have a samsung washer and dryer but when those go out- won't even look their way. Don't discount the lawsuits and the proven theft samsung has done- it single handedly made me look at the companies I support- not just the product.

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
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post #43 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostcallmerob View Post
 

You guys speak of innovation and Apple, but honestly, what innovation have they supplied to the smartphone market? They keep making their phones slimmer, upgrading internals with better chips, increasing screen resolution, and now following Samsung, they are finally increasing their screen size to something respectable. You think that innovation is slimming down and making a screen bigger, big whoop. 

You forgot the /sarcasm tag.

post #44 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post
 

Uh, no, it says that a Korean analyst firm dropped its quarterly projection for Samsung sales by 11 million - from 88m to 77m….

It's really okay to actually read your own posted links!;)

 

Um yes.

 

"Sang-hoon didn't elaborate further, but some reports are claiming that sales of Samsung's Galaxy S5 - which the firm recently announced has shifted 11 million units - are slowing due to a decline in demand."

 

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2352262/samsung-warns-of-poor-q2-due-to-slowing-galaxy-s5-sales

 

The 88m is talking about ALL samsung phones not just the S5.

post #45 of 175

Samsung is going to have 2 more lousy quarters.

 

iPhone 6 will likely launch in September. In the months leading up to the launch, smartphone sales (of high end phones) will drop as people are waiting to see what the iPhone 6 will be like. Then when the iPhone 6 does launch, it will dominate sales right through the holiday season and into the new year.

 

The real problem for Samsung (and HTC or LG) is for the first time ever Apple will be competing directly in their space - large screen phones. And outside of a larger screen, there's really nothing special about a GS5, LG G3 or HTC One that make them stand out. Put next to an iPhone 6 and Apples superior attention to detail and build quality, these competing phones are going to look pretty crappy.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

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post #46 of 175

This story will reveal all the news outlets that spin anti-Apple pro-Samsung garbage (ahm, Bloomberg).  There's no good way to put this except to not print it or gloss it over with predictions about next quarter (ahem, Bloomberg).

post #47 of 175
Samsung blame... everybody else. How apropriate.
post #48 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostcallmerob View Post
 

You guys speak of innovation and Apple, but honestly, what innovation have they supplied to the smartphone market? 

 

Smartphones: Before and after the iPhone

 

post #49 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostcallmerob View Post

You guys speak of innovation and Apple, but honestly, what innovation have they supplied to the smartphone market? They keep making their phones slimmer, upgrading internals with better chips, increasing screen resolution, and now following Samsung, they are finally increasing their screen size to something respectable. You think that innovation is slimming down and making a screen bigger, big whoop. 
Ok- ill bite.

Even as little as last year- doing a 64-bit processor in the mobile world. That's huge. So big in fact that Samsung came out a week later and publicly said "we'll have 64 bit too soon!" However- here we are, almost a year later- with nothing in sight except for a promise. If you can't understand why the move to 64-bit and the development of that chip isn't groundbreaking, then we don't need to continue the conversation.

Although, in your eyes, I see how that can be minor. You're thinking iPod, or the revolution of the smartphone with iPhone. Or a tablet that finally caught on and look at the advances now In that field. I think everyone- even competitors and trolls- can agree all three of those were huge innovations.

Now please answer- should apple "innovate" with a brand new product category annually? Or is it a once every 5 year thing? Please list three consumer products that were completely revolutionary and innovative from any company- not even tech related- in the past 15 years. When you can't list a company- then you can, as tallest says, shut up and go away.
Edited by Andysol - 7/8/14 at 8:10am

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
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Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #50 of 175

I hope Samsung's downward spiral continues.  They truly deserve it.

Making fun of iPhone owners (and potential customers), not helping.

Being under the microscope to create their own product, and not copy Apple, not helping.

 

Sketchy quality control - not helping

 

Lying to everyone - not helping

 

Being an all-around scummy company that rips of everyone's IP - not helping.

Being Samsung - definitely not helping.

post #51 of 175

SS is trapped in the Android race to the bottom. and there's no escape.

 

but its public statement doesn't break out the results for just its phone/tablet/computer/accessories sales, so we don't know if that part of its business is losing money or still generating some profit. overall, SS still makes a heck of a lot of $'s.

 

but seeing them whine about being undercut by cheap Chinese knock-offs of their products is delicious indeed. sauce for the goose ...

post #52 of 175
Though I agree that Samsung (like others, it should be noted) have largely copied apple after the debut of the iphone- Samsung has something viable up its sleeves. Imagine a Samsung phone with Tizen, not android. Apple has homekit, and naturally google is following suit with whatever terrible interfaced copycat kit they have. But Samsung makes cars, tools, computers, washers, dryers, tellys, a/c, and other home appliances. If they make Tizen secure- they can let you automate your home cheaply and without the google data collecting BS.
Samsung is potentially sitting on an easy to configure goldmine.
post #53 of 175
They Need to Get Rid of Tim Cook%u2122
post #54 of 175
The writing is all over the wall. iPhone holds 42% of the market in the US as of May 2014. How can one phone capture and hold so much share in a commoditized market? How can a luxury product dominate while up against entire platforms of competing devices?

When a walled garden becomes large enough, it becomes a rainforest. A rainforest creates its own weather just like Apple's ecosystem creates its own economy. Samsung has hit a brick wall. It copied Apple and that took it far, but the music has stopped and the party is over. Samsung is simply unable to keep pace with Apple innovation.

http://halifaxbloggers.ca/straighttech/2014/06/a-rainforest-posing-as-a-walled-garden/
post #55 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post
 

This story will reveal all the news outlets that spin anti-Apple pro-Samsung garbage (ahm, Bloomberg).  There's no good way to put this except to not print it or gloss it over with predictions about next quarter (ahem, Bloomberg).

no, you just don't understand. these SS results prove even more that Apple is in trouble! Because, something. just wait until Bloomberg exposes the truth!

post #56 of 175

Samsung really only ever had one gimmick that worked.  Big screens.  It was simply a matter before they ran out screen sizes or people got tired of going larger.

 

The entire reason why Samsung phones dominated the smartphone market, is that they were first to push screen sizes for smartphones.  They offered screen sizes in every size imaginable.  The big bright colors + $99/Buy1Get1Free promotions attracted customers by the millions.  Now that those customers have gotten used to larger screens.. and other manufacturers have offer similar large screen options.. There's no reason for these customers to stay loyal to Samsung phones.   What real reasons does a S3/S4 owner have to upgrade to the S5?  Or a Note1/2 owner to the Note3?  They look almost exactly alike and the screen size is very much similar.

 

Expect things to get MUCH worse for Samsung come September.  There are many iPhone people who bought a Samsung phone simply because of the bigger screen.  And those people never truly converted from iPhone experience.  They are easy to pick out, as they will own a Samsung mobile phone but still use an iPad for tablet use where screen size isn't as important.  Expect millions of them to come running back to Apple.. as they finally get to use the mobile OS they prefer.. on a smartphone's screen that is 4.7" and 5.5".

post #57 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by abazigal View Post

It's kinda freaky when I think about it. Just last year, I was having a discussion at Cnet, and this guy accurately predicted (in hindsight) that moving forward, Google would become more closed, Apple would fall in market share but actually become more profitable, while Samsung would increase in market share but drop in profits.

It makes sense now that I think about it. Samsung simply grew too large too soon. They insisted on releasing so many models so quickly even though technology itself doesn't improve that quickly. That's why you get gimmicks like a heart-rate monitor that sports just a 50% accuracy rate (unacceptable for what is being touted as a medical / health feature). It's like that runner who decided to sprint right at the start of a long marathon just to wow the crowd. Now Samsung is starting to run out of steam and ideas, and at a bad time too. Apple is expected to release two larger iPhone models and iOS 8 is shaping up to be a major release in terms of features and functionality.

Samsung - don't blame anyone. You are simply reaping what you have sown.

 

Here's what I wrote last year after the iPhone 5C and 5S came out:

 

Apple's Chess Moves:

Apple leaves open the less profitable lower cost market to Samsung and others, who must constantly evolve their designs in an effort to find a niche with some uptake against the iPhone. 

 
Samsung was forced to incorporate 4G radios even though the then-current technology drained your battery much faster, huge screens even though they make the phones unwieldy, many separate models that keep the cost of goods high and profits slim, and a third party OS that places Samsung at the mercy of Google/Motorola, creates fragmentation of the customer experience with few customers able to move forward to the latest version, and affectively commoditizes the entire universe of phones using it.
 
Meanwhile, Apple, with just three models (4S, 5C, and 5S) with just two screen sizes (3.5” and 4”) captures the majority of worldwide profits in the Smartphone market.
 
How is it that Apple, with its vastly superior OS and integrated experience across iPhones, iPads, iPods, and Macs, is NOT thinking several moves ahead.  Samsung is playing the game Apple wants them to play.  Among Apple's next moves will be incorporation of a larger display, taking away from Samsung and others the only differentiator they currently enjoy.
 
All those iPhone sales create new customers for the Apple ecosystem, the stickiest ecosystem by a very, very wide margin. Apple sees the world differently from how other companies see it. Apple realizes that significant advances in technology occur on a frequency of about 18 - 24 months, so it designs the very best phone that the current batch of production-ready technologies will allow, combining their unique design sense to produce an elegant and minimalist product. Then they sell that product, refreshing it once, for an entire technology cycle, knowing that during that cycle nothing will significantly displace it (meaning nothing so significant to cause Apple's customers to defect before the end of the cycle). Yes, during a cycle, Samsung and other competitors will employ the evolutionary scattershot approach to create a whole host of product offerings, all utilizing the same current-generation technologies, but since these are mere variants on a theme (larger screen, for example), they will primarily capture new customers, with relatively few defectors from the Apple camp. Of course, the downside of the scattershot evolutionary approach is that it requires a bigger R&D expenditure and shorter product cycles, both of which reduce the profitability of Apple's competition. Not to mention commoditization in the market, further reducing profitability. Apple chooses not to join that march to the bottom. It's history, and current profitability, suggest that Apple has chosen the correct path.  The next two years will see the true power of Apple's quiet strategies.    
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post #58 of 175

Chickens coming home to roost but still laying eggs.

post #59 of 175

This is business 101, which Wall Street seems to love as a strategy which will fail in the end but Wall Street could care less if Samsung is around 2 yrs from now.

 

When your whole business model is base on being the lowest cost and high volumes, you will always have your lunch eaten from the bottom by some other guy who is always willing to take less profits to get more of your volume. It is the classic case of race to the bottom and who can get there first. Samsung can never get there since their overhead is far too high considering their Chinese competitors.

 

Apple Strategy has always been great products at a high value to the customers, it is hard to drag this to the bottom, the only way to beat this strategy is to have a better product which has a higher value at the same or lesser cost. No one has been able to step up to the plate on this one.

 

May be someone can site another example, but I believe this is the first time where the Apple Strategy has been this successful from the stand point of one company controlling the largest majority of the profits, it is usually the Samsung strategy that has a number of companies all jockeying to control the lion share of the volume and profits. I think this is what Wall Street has been thinking that Apple Strategy was unsustainable. They expect Apple to join the fight at the bottom,similar to what they did with ipods, but in the ipod space there was not group battling to the bottom, Apple just stepped in and took over with no price war to even consider.

 

Usually companies deploying the Apple Strategy stay small and only garner a small amount of the over business and profits. 


Edited by Maestro64 - 7/8/14 at 8:43am
post #60 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
 


I can be. Because of Samsung's shady dealings with Apple and their offensive marketing in the cellphone arena I actively avoided buying their televisions for my last two television purchases. Samsung's mobile division's marketing strategy has an impact on the company as a whole beyond simply losing profits in the mobile market.

 

That's fine and it's fine for all the Apple fans to have decided that they "hate" Samsung, but the reality is that Samsung is the leader in TV and just about everyone else in the market is hurting badly and have cut back their TV lines.   I don't know whether or not Samsung makes any profit out of their TV business, but no one else does.   Samsung has killed Sony and Panasonic in this market, both of whom have cut back their lines.   Panasonic made great plasma TVs (as did Pioneer, with their Kuro line), but they make them no more.   Sony has spun off the TV division and is concentrating on expensive 4K sets (which aren't selling well) and Panasonic has a line of undistinguished LCDs.  

 

And what you do (or what I do) personally is certainly not necessarily representative of the market as a whole.   In fact, the actions of just about anyone on a site like this are not representative of the market.

 

And let's not forget that even though it was far less than last year and far less than what analysts expected, Samsung still made $7 billion in profits in the quarter.    That makes them smaller than Apple, but still a very large and successful company.    Does that excuse them from copying Apple's designs?  No.   But it doesn't change the fact that any company who can earn $30 billion in profits a year is a very successful company.  

post #61 of 175
Nobody beats Microsoft for "channel stuffing": the sheer weight of the unsold inventory of Surface RT tablets broke Ballmer's reign.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #62 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostcallmerob View Post
 

You guys speak of innovation and Apple, but honestly, what innovation have they supplied to the smartphone market? They keep making their phones slimmer, upgrading internals with better chips, increasing screen resolution, and now following Samsung, they are finally increasing their screen size to something respectable. You think that innovation is slimming down and making a screen bigger, big whoop. 

 

I was trying to find and article I read a while back from someone who seemed to be a very capable engineer describing how the (original) iPhone display would fail (the capacitive elements would degraded quickly over short use, or something like that) over time and that Apple would have a massive recall on their hands. Not knowing that Apple's engineers has figured out the problems he had not... oh well.

 

I found some other good reads instead:

 

http://adage.com/article/al-ries/iphone-fail/117355/

 

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone

 

http://suckbusters2.blogspot.com/2007/06/apple-iphone-debut-to-flop-product-to.html

 

And yet, people still try to predict the future...

post #63 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
 

But according to tech analyst Samsung is winning the cellular phone wars after all business thrive on market share and unicorn dander. All of these old stodgy things like profits and net income are highly over-rated. At least they are as long as Apple is the clear leader in those areas.

Yeah.  Samsung is falling prey to the same thing that happened at Nokia.  The low-end smartphone sales certainly can't offset the loss of high-end smartphone sales.  Low-end smartphone sales are like a boat anchor.  I honestly don't understand why analysts don't see this when the Nokia debacle was relatively recent.  Trying to hold onto high market share at every level is just too hard to do on a global scale.  Everything will work as long as your flagship devices are selling in high numbers.  However once that's gone those low-end loss leaders suck up everything.  With Samsung offering steep discounts and BOGO on their Galaxy S5 flagships, something was bound to go wrong.  20 million S5 units trying to hold up 60 million loss leaders is too much for any company to bear.  Yet Wall Street continues to worship at the church of major market share.  Why is that metric so important to investors?  I'm certain it would be better if Samsung just sold the S5 flagships and dropped all that low-end crap, but their immense greed will not let them.  Apple's model will continue to work because they're only passing down flagships and not building low-end crap.

post #64 of 175
Of course not.
Samsung is just like gold digger: when a market has a potential, they cheat to get the most profit they can get.
Once the market starts to dry up, they leave faster than the speed of light. (How many Samsung version of iPod non-Touch have you seen since iPhone 4 released? )
That's the also the reason why they don't sign for a peace treaty with Apple: they're leaving, so why pay up front? Suck all the money back to Korean in the name of operating expense and let Apple play with an empty subsidy. (Samsung owns their own ad company, so now you know why they spend 14B last year for ad. )

By the way, unlike Samsung executive, Tim Cook's speciality is profiting from a tiny market, that's why iPod/Mac Pro still there: he can work that work, Samsung can't.
post #65 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostcallmerob View Post
 

You guys speak of innovation and Apple, but honestly, what innovation have they supplied to the smartphone market? They keep making their phones slimmer, upgrading internals with better chips, increasing screen resolution, and now following Samsung, they are finally increasing their screen size to something respectable. You think that innovation is slimming down and making a screen bigger, big whoop. 

 

Uhhhhhh, they invented the freaking touch screen smart-phone. What are you, 10 years old?

post #66 of 175
Samsung gets Samsunged! LOL!

http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/7/8/5880689/robbers-steal-over-40000-samsung-products-factory-heist

This looks to me like an insurance fraud scheme.

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post #67 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post
 

 

Smartphones: Before and after the iPhone

 

that 2nd half is telling.  Differentiation.   Other than size and Blackberry, can you look quickly and say... that one is NOT an iPhone.

 

What differentiates a smartphone today.  _Being_ Smart.   for you.

 

Samsung's numbers (and the resultant stock price increase today says this) have pretty much been in the know for 3 months.   There are diminishing returns in hitting niches in visible capabilities.  Spec Wars.  Larger, faster, more ram, more ports, more G's (What my wife calls bandwidth (E, 3G, 4G, LTE(G), but here I Mean Ghz's), more pixels, more screen, etc. etc.   But the bottom line is people don't need/use specs, they use the devices, and the sum is more important than the parts.

 

Apple can sell new 1 and 1/2 phone models (5s and 5c) a year, sell a phone model from 2 years ago (4s), 2 new tablets, and 2 old tablets, and they make money.  less per unit than 4 years ago, but still more than the market average (heck samsung and apple the only ones above  the market median).    Why.   Because it's a better total experience, where there is ubiquitous bandwidth.

 

The Market Facts are pretty solid, and have been so for 3+ years.

 

1) There are 4 prices points.   Free with subs, $100 with subs, $200 with subs, and >$500 without subsidies.

Apple hits all of them.

 

Look at the above phones.   you don't get much other than screen size difference.

 

Now Apple is shifting from it's 3.5 and 4 to 4, 4.7 and 5.5 in (rumoredly).

That picture above... you've just removed most of the differentiation.

 

2) So, then you go to weight and 'feel'

- Apple's feel better (solid, professionally built, better for the 3 things phones are used for:  calls, pictures, finger navigation

- Apple's respond better (better tactile response, zippier scroll/zoom/nav/animation)

 

3) Apple also has the simplest care and feeding

- Other than your carrier bill, all services are performed by Apple

- All your apps come from Apple

- Apple has stores and geniuses

-  Focused Integration...  Apple from their website only sells phones, tablets, and macs

   - Samsung... well

                        You got move your microwave ovens,

                        Custom Kitchen Deliveries...

                        You got to move those Refrigerators,

                        You got to move your color  Teeee   Veess...

 

                        Apple... That ain't working... That's the way you do it.  Your Money for Nothin' and your profits for free.

                 (apologies to Dire Straits 

 

 

 

5) Market desire: Most  polls of people who are 'switchers' make iPhone their next phone.

 

 

In the end, you end up with a model of

... First smartphone... cheapest phone you can find that fits your 'external' needs (size, local wireless)

....2nd smartphone...  one that fits your 'app needs'  (could be an iPhone, but you may get marketed to a android phone on the premise it's an easier migration.

....next smartphone...   an iPhone, because you can likely afford it, if not a used one, a .99 cent-er.

 

Apple will and Samsung will normalize with 30-35% and 50% of the market, respectively, but Samsung will be competing to keep that 15% from the 15-20% of the market that attacks the edges of Samsung's 'empire' that Apple doesn't care about.  Where Apple cares about, Samsung and Apple have established a pretty firm border that isn't moving, and it would cost Samsung huge to try to scale an offensive

 

Apple's ecosystem locks you in tighter.   For a small percentage, that's evil, but for people to take pictures, make calls and run a couple apps, it's a 'meh' moment.

 

As bandwidth and monthly GB's go down in price the barrier to entry for really using your smart phone goes down.   Once LTE monthly bandwidth and unlimited national calling drops from $70 a month to $30 a month, more people will use more apps, and will will use their phone more and realize that interface does matter, and if there is no different in price and size, the iPhone is pretty much now _the_ option, unless you're a person that needs niche capabilities (huge phone, huge battery, must jailbreak, a custom app only on Android [and phone x]

 

Commodity Bandwidth

Commodity phones (at least in terms of the physicals specs)

 

At this point, differentiation is in 'experience'

- a better buy/upgrade experience

- a better App Experience

- A better App Development Experience

- A better App deployment experience

- A better privacy Experience

- A better integration into your e-Comm and E-conomic world

   - your online shopping for 'e-content'

   - a better point of sale experience (we hope)

   - a better way to integrate with work (just letting work trust your device)

   - a better way to integrate into your e-life (Facebook, iPhoto, email, twitter, etc.)

 

All these points, Apple is ahead or tied with Samsung.  

 

So long story short, this isn't a story of not innovating, at least not in the handset.  It's really a story about Samsung not building the ecosystem that Phone users desire.  Mobile users want an integrated experience.     For all of apple's shortcomings, Apple is far ahead of Samsung on that.


Edited by TheOtherGeoff - 7/8/14 at 9:37am
post #68 of 175
How to spot a troll: "but honestly..."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #69 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post
 

 

Uhhhhhh, they invented the freaking touch screen smart-phone. What are you, 10 years old?

bzzt, wrong answer, try again.

 

Apple invented the 3.5" computer that had a wireless phone app.  But phones with touch screens, browsers and apps existed much earlier.

 

What Apple really invented was making the end-user the smartphone customer, not the carrier.  That was and is the innovation that has them differentiated from everyone else.

post #70 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post
 

It seems odd that they are blaming diminished interest in smartphones,

Perhaps even the uber geeks with their myriad of customizations have become bored with rooting and skinning their phones. The novelty has worn off. Even they have better things to do.

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post #71 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostcallmerob View Post

You guys speak of innovation and Apple, but honestly, what innovation have they supplied to the smartphone market? They keep making their phones slimmer, upgrading internals with better chips, increasing screen resolution, and now following Samsung, they are finally increasing their screen size to something respectable. You think that innovation is slimming down and making a screen bigger, big whoop. 

You forgot the /s
post #72 of 175
Innovation comes in many forms. Sustaining the viability and appeal of existing product lines through bigger, better, faster, more features, etc., sustaining innovation strategies is hugely important and critical to harvesting the value from the big upfront investment costs that are involved with new products. You have to follow through to build up the ecosystem and feed the customer base and keep them engaged. If you don't have a rock solid sustaining innovation strategy and operational plan you run a risk of being just another company that had a lot of good ideas that seldom if ever deliver real value. Think Xerox. On the other hand you also need new and fresh ideas and disruptive innovations that lay down the foundation for your next generation of sustaining innovations. If you get complacent and rest on your sustaining strategy alone you will quit growing, wither, and unless you're a public utility or monopoly eventually die. Think Microsoft.

It's not an either-or situation, if you want to succeed long term you need both disruptive innovation like the iPhone, iPad, and iTunes and sustaining innovation like the various evolutionary enhancements to these products and the ecosystem over the years. Then there's the innovation on the manufacturing and operations side, including the remarkable data centers that Apple has built. If you think that Apple isn't innovative because they haven't put out a new category-defining product in a few years you are viewing life through a straw. Apple is innovating massively on multiple fronts and in multiple dimensions. It's just a matter of time before they launch another disruptor into the market. Only this time it's landing in an ecosystem and environment that will multiply its impact tremendously because they never quit supporting and sustaining the foundation for continued success.

Samsung is in no danger of going out of business. They just need to clean up there act and figure out what they want to do when they grow up. Admitting that they have an unhealthy obsession with Apple and doing something about it would be a good first step.
post #73 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

Yeah.  Samsung is falling prey to the same thing that happened at Nokia.  The low-end smartphone sales certainly can't offset the loss of high-end smartphone sales.  Low-end smartphone sales are like a boat anchor.  I honestly don't understand why analysts don't see this when the Nokia debacle was relatively recent.  Trying to hold onto high market share at every level is just too hard to do on a global scale.  Everything will work as long as your flagship devices are selling in high numbers.  However once that's gone those low-end loss leaders suck up everything.  With Samsung offering steep discounts and BOGO on their Galaxy S5 flagships, something was bound to go wrong.  20 million S5 units trying to hold up 60 million loss leaders is too much for any company to bear.  Yet Wall Street continues to worship at the church of major market share.  Why is that metric so important to investors?  I'm certain it would be better if Samsung just sold the S5 flagships and dropped all that low-end crap, but their immense greed will not let them.  Apple's model will continue to work because they're only passing down flagships and not building low-end crap.

Last point.  And they maintain their former flagships longer, better. (see my last point below... DisneyLand is still a valuable property in the Disney portfolio, even though they have newer parks all over the world.

 

1st point: Once the market is saturated, you can't play both ends of the spectrum and satisfy the market. low end sales only work to 'enter' a market, not 'retain' one.  'Value' Retains.  

 

Analysts think the last big thing is the next big thing.   Cheap cars got Honda et al into the high[er] margin automobile industry, disrupting the old players.  They think the same happens in cell phones.   The analysts don't understand at saturation it all becomes ecosystem and retention.   It's why Chevy Geo buyers didn't care about an Impala (because a Geo wasn't really a Chevy), but why I've only purchased Honda's (save for 2 'hockey mom cars' [suburban and an explorer... ice time isn't cancelled if the roads are closed]), since 1988.   

 

2nd Point: In this arena... Samsung is more like Dell/HP and Google is more like MS.  Market Share.  Samsung went up today, but Google is down Big.  Android 'marketshare' defines it's viability against iOS... the bigger, the more it controls it's destiny by driving all developers, ads, vendors, clients to it as marketshare equals 'safe long term technology path' ('nobody gets fired buying [IBM/MS]').  But Samsung gets caught up in this as well  If you need to sell a fleet of stuff, you need to sell every flavor, every color, every option....  That's the way you sell to a mass market or a huge enterprise (like ATT, Verizon).     

 

Apple, and the part that Analysts don't get, is that they use the commodity to sell the experience.   Apple is more like Disney[Land], than the traveling circus that is 'bought' by county fair to attract customers, or the old rickety amusement parks that were lowering quality/safety to increase margin.   Like Disney, Apple knows integration is more important than Specs.  They don't have the biggest roller coaster, but the Matterhorn (and then Space Mountain), small roller coasters in every measure, were built into a ecosystem that consumers wanted, and the experience was more pleasurable than what Coney Island, or other 1950's era amusement parks had. 

post #74 of 175
The graph of Samsung phones discounting over time on page
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/samsung-smartphone-sales-plummet-company-issues-earnings-warning-1454100
would engender panic in anyone familiar with running a business, as Samsung is undertaking desperation measures to move the lagging Galaxy S5, their newest and best product. Smartphones are 76% of Samsung's profits, and that market is collapsing on them, which will drag down the profits of their other divisions as well. Some people extrapolate and believe that the same thing will happen to Apple; but customers have an affinity with Apple and the people-like-them who they see run Apple and produce their hardware and software: the same cannot be said of Samsung, where I doubt that one Samsung customer out of a hundred could name one Samsung principal who runs that company or produces its products. Apple is still expanding into new markets and their products are held in much higher regard than the relatively clunky products of Samsung, where Apple products both new and used are much sought after.
post #75 of 175

What a pathetic company. 

post #76 of 175

Okay, before I address each of you individually, you guys seriously need to calm the hell down. I work for a Fortune 100 company and have an iPhone 5 as my work phone, while my personal phone is a Samsung S4. Unlike many of you, I have exposure to both phones and OS's. I've had every iPhone released since the original, and up to the iPhone 5 so I am not new to Apple or the iPhone. My personal computer is a MacBook Pro. Generally, I haven't been really impressed with their innovation over the years, and that's my opinion.

 

Am I excited for the "6"? Yeah, I've been following it since the 5S release, as I'm sure all of you have, and I'm confident that I will make my transition back to Apple as a result of the larger screen, TouchID, their A8 processor, and generally iOS. One thing I'm not happy about was the unofficial announcement of the sizes of the batteries, but between the processor and iOS, it should do just fine. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cws View Post
 

Touch ID, just introduced in Apple's latest iPhone, is an amazing example of groundbreaking innovation: the very first highly reliable and incredibly convenient biometric security system ever installed on a mobile device.  Oh, and I forgot to mention the first 64-bit processor on a mobile phone.  As Phil Schiller would say, "Can't innovate? My Ass!"

 

Touch ID, I will give to Apple, is a pretty innovative feature and one that actually works well as I've played with it on my girlfriends 5S. 64-bit processing is something all smartphones should have, which is one huge issue I have with Samsung. The difference of using a 64-bit processor makes for a super smooth and fluid feel across the OS, which is why I enjoy the iPhone more. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


Ok- ill bite.

Even as little as last year- doing a 64-bit processor in the mobile world. That's huge. So big in fact that Samsung came out a week later and publicly said "we'll have 64 bit too soon!" However- here we are, almost a year later- with nothing in sight except for a promise. If you can't understand why the move to 64-bit and the development of that chip isn't groundbreaking, then we don't need to continue the conversation.

Although, in your eyes, I see how that can be minor. You're thinking iPod, or the revolution of the smartphone with iPhone. Or a tablet that finally caught on and look at the advances now In that field. I think everyone- even competitors and trolls- can agree all three of those were huge innovations.

Now please answer- should apple "innovate" with a brand new product category annually? Or is it a once every 5 year thing? Please list three consumer products that were completely revolutionary and innovative from any company- not even tech related- in the past 15 years. When you can't list a company- then you can, as tallest says, shut up and go away.

 

Of course Apple can't develop a brand new product category annually, it's not possible. Three products that were revolutionary and innovative is simple. 

HDTV, DVR/DVD's, NFC (although it's not too commonly used), RFID tagging, CD's, mainstream GPS, hybrid and electric cars, 3D printing, Google, USB flash, Wifi, and social media, just to name a few have completely revolutionized our lifes. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post
 

 

Uhhhhhh, they invented the freaking touch screen smart-phone. What are you, 10 years old?

 

Apple did not invent the touchscreen, it has been around since the 80's, probably earlier. Apple brought the multi-point touchscreen to the smartphone.

post #77 of 175

Hilarious that SamDUNG is blaming the low/mid level phones.

 

Its the high end that is getting destroyed.  For the first six months of the Galaxy S5 they are estimating sales to be down 36% compared to the Galaxy S4.  That is where the money is being lost.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/donaldkirk/2014/07/08/samsungs-smartphones-stumble-profits-down-against-chinese-rivals/

 

"Yonhap quoted analyst Lee Min-hee at I’Min Investment & Securities Co. as attributing the sagging profits to the somewhat disappointing response to the new Galaxy S5 since its introduction in March just as the second quarter was about to begin. Samsung shipped approximately 17 million units of Galaxy S5 in the second quarter as opposed to 20 million units of Galaxy S4 in its first three months, according to Yonhap.

Most discomfiting for Samsung, “Users’ loyalty to the brand has fallen significantly,” Lee told Yonhap. Moreover, for the third quarter of this year Galaxy S5 is likely to sell only 6 million units compared with 16 million units of the Galaxy S4 sold “over the similar period.”

 

Galaxy S4 sales - first 6 months - 36 million units

Galaxy S5 sales - first 6 months - 23 million units

36% decrease in units sold

post #78 of 175

If it makes any of you feel better, the Galaxy S3, which was my first phone after leaving my iPhone 4S was the biggest piece of sh*t phone I've ever owned in every way imaginable. Unfortunately, I also had to pay full retail for that garbage, which I regret greatly. 

post #79 of 175

Samsung's reasoning of marketing spend eating into profits seems just as dishonest as their actual marketing. I'd like to know the logic behind spending large amounts of profit to market your surplus of mid/low end phones. What mid/low-end markets require so much money for marketing efforts that it cuts your profits that much? Makes me think Samsung is trying to divert blame away from their high-end strategies against Apple?


Edited by carloblackmore - 7/8/14 at 11:04am
post #80 of 175

Well I wonder why Samsung is going downhill?

Could it be:

-Less parts sales to Apple?

-Less copying of Apple's latest designs?

 

-Possible customers waiting to see Apple's iPhone6?   (me too)

-Customers no longer wanting a Google Android SPYWARE OS?

 

-Poor quality?

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