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Apple Maps launch on the web in new Find my iPhone beta, displacing Google - Page 2

post #41 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

No one involved has said how that worked. Some stories say Google was willing to offer TBT but wanted something additional in return. Mentioned was branding as Google Maps for iOS which Apple resisted. Giving Google anymore credit than was absolutely necessary wasn't in Apple's interest at the moment. Google also wanted better sharing of the data Apple was collecting and storing on its users thru Google Maps use, again a supposed issue between the two. Both sides were digging in their heels and neither willing to budge as far as I can tell. So TBT was offered to Apple and its users but not under terms Apple liked as the story goes.

The terms don't matter to us.

Google Maps was gimped on iOS intentionally. As the platform owner, Apple will have to provide an alternative that fits its own vision. Whether Google agrees or not is not so relevant.
Edited by patsu - 7/8/14 at 1:02pm
post #42 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

At least you can admit you were wrong on half of what you said.  Now for the admission of the other half-

True or false:
Google wants iOS users to be Android users

True or false:
Google wants people to purchase through Google Play vs iTunes

True or false:
Google wants to be in your living room instead of Apple

True or false:
Google bought a streaming music service a month after Apple bought a streaming music service

Do I need to continue?  You're clueless.

1. I doubt Google particularly cared unless Apple chose to lock them out. Fear of Microsoft doing so is what drove the Android program in the first place. Google does their best to be platform agnostic.

2. The question makes no sense. Android users would never be given the option of buying apps via iTunes. 1confused.gif

3. Google wants to be in your living room. How they get there is less important than making it so. Remember from point 1: Google is platform agnostic for the most part. I think they'd happily work with Apple on Apple TV if they were asked.

4. Yes Google bought a streaming music service. But Google already had a streaming on-demand music service and has for quite awhile, Google All-Access, which the purchase is hopefully going to improve. Apple does not have one (iRadio is no on-demand streamer and nothing like All-Access) but should when the Beats deal closes.

Tossing in the "clueless" insult looks a little silly now doesn't it? It didn't add anything and comes off as more juvenile than adult. I don't mind having a discussion but would decline to join in if we're having a name-calling contest, and no doubt a contest you would win.
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/8/14 at 2:07pm
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post #43 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post
 


The article is about a specific Google product losing out to a competing Apple product.

 

Other Google products have nothing to do with this.

 

It would be like complaining that a Safari user has Google as their default search.

 

And it is tough to call this a Google product losing out to a 'competing' Apple product.  It is Apple choosing to use its own product.  The more accurate question would be why hasn't Apple used its own services for the last two years.

post #44 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post

The terms don't matter to us.

Google Maps was gimped on iOS intentionally. As the platform owner, Apple will have to provide an alternative that fits its own vision. Whether Google agrees or not is not so relevant.

You are 100% correct . Google had no real say in the matter. it was always Apple's decision IMO.
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post #45 of 79
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Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

You're the one who said this:

The operative words were business model. While they do compete on various fronts the overall business model for each company is very different.
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post #46 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post

The terms don't matter to us.

Google Maps was gimped on iOS intentionally. As the platform owner, Apple will have to provide an alternative that fits its own vision. Whether Google agrees or not is not so relevant.

Except that it wasn't Google Maps. It was a maps app made by Apple using Google's data.
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post #47 of 79
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Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
 

 

Love how AppleInsider keeps peddling this ridiculous, tired lie. The product wans't disastrous- it was the media's reaction to it, who were desperate to hang Apple by any thread that they could find, helped by all the anti-Apple shills- and sites like yours truly, who just went along with it. The cover photo for Apple "disastrous" maps was a broken 3D view for a location that was identical in Google maps and STILL hasn't been fixed in Google maps years later. Just think about that for a second, that should give you enough insight as to the honesty of the whole manufactured "disaster". Apple maps wasn't perfect at launch, nor is it now, nor is any mapping service on the planet (I still see a TON of mistakes with Google maps). But the reaction was laughable in its lack of objectivity, and AppleInsider cowardly follows the dishonest narrative that was set by those with an anti-Apple agenda, as if it was a fact. 

 

Apple Maps was a disaster and it used outdated map information at launch, even in major metropolitan areas.  It lacked public transit information, making it useless for many users.  In case you forgot, Apple admitted Maps was a failure at launch and recommended many other map products in the app store as a solution.  Forstall was fired because of it.  Wake up to reality because it was a fact.

 

Now that Apple will switch to using their Maps for Find my iPhone, now no one will be able to locate their phone.  Love that AppleInsider uses Google Chrome as their browser of choice when writing about an anti-Google article.  Hilarious!

post #48 of 79

Apple's upcoming Spotlight rebirth is a huge salvo toward Google. It is the front end for the eventual launch of their own search engine

 

It is essential for them do to this, as its the backbone for so many other technologies. And all the extra capacity they have been building out in the new data centers is not just for streaming media and iCloud storage. Its likely to run silent and internal for years, like the five years of secret OS X Intel development during the PPC years.

post #49 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

AI's headlines are almost never accurate.

 

It's word soup, selected for maximum click traffic.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #50 of 79
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Originally Posted by BobJohnson View Post
 

When the CEO of one of the world's richest companies is forced to issue a public, written apology and suggest alternatives to his own product, it's a disaster. Warranted or not, it's still a disaster.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
 

Thats my point. The apology was the best PR move in his opinion, it does not mean that the criticism that led to it was honest, balanced, objective, or justified. It was utterly out of control, and media was exploiting the "disastrous" maps to to push their "see, Apple is doomed without Steve Jobs" narrative as much as humanly possible. Yes, the situation was a disaster because of people's dishonesty, not because the product itself was a disaster. The Letter is irrelevant. That was Cook's way of dealing with it. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

The media's reaction to it was undoubtedly stoked by mismanaged expectations. Apple's biggest mistake was boasting their product as "The Most Powerful" mapping solution when they should have labeled it a beta, especially since the media had an established incumbent for comparison. The higher you raise expectations, the more critically you will be judged.

 

Sorry Slurpy, you're outflanked by virtue of living in a world where only technical merit matters.  Maps wasn't a bad beta+/0.9-ish program, but it was rolled out promising to be much more - something it  obviously still wasn't (and is only now approaching), and that gave every anti-Apple interest in the world an opening to pummel the company.  And that was a major gaffe.... 

...I.e., in the rough and tumble of high stakes commerce, when you KNOW the media and your competitors are out gunning for you... ....when you know they'll wildly and loudly and continually exaggerate every misstep... ....and when you know Apple will be attacked for things that aren't even missteps, whatever they do....

....then you've gotta realize you always have to bring your A game to every rollout or suffer PR damage to your rep that lingers...

 

...as whenever Maps is in the news, every major media outlet STILL harps on the rollout problems. Can't remember the attribution, but the quote rings true in a wide variety of situations:

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

And that's just how stuff often works in the real economic/tech biz world. 

 

Ask Betamax (which was def superior tech to VHS but still lost). Ask WordPerfect, whose fatal error was sticking with DOS development and being late to the Windows party.  And the list of better products with just one or two slips at the wrong time sinking their ships goes on...  

 

...Apple's just fortunate Maps wasn't that strategic at that point and that they're so successful they've been able to stick with the product through an awkward not-all-that-much-loved-by-many adolescence, since THEY see it as strategic in their competition with Google. 


Edited by bigpics - 7/8/14 at 11:28pm

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post #51 of 79
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Apple is making fast progress with their mapping efforts. Well done. It's not an easy thing to do.

 

I'm going to start calling these "sheep clothing" posts.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Why is there a need for a war? Google's business model doesn't really overlap Apple's and vice-versa. It's not as tho Google is taking away Apple device sales as they sell everything they can produce quarter after quarter and lead the world in profitability (ignoring oil). Outside of controlling the entire computer market and sucking up every last dollar of profit what more could Apple wish for? Apple and Google could peacefully co-exist, and in fact actually assist each other, if they choose. The "war" was of Steve Jobs making IMHO and hopefully Tim Cook has a different mindset.

 

You forgot the sarcasm tags with most of those comments. Without them your post is woefully hypocritical. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain you (or at least some other prominent google employees) have tried to justify android in the past saying that google "had" to create it because it was "inevitable" that Apple would eventually encroach on google's business and thus google was forced to preemptively compete in the cellphone market.. then I suppose laptops, then TV (six tries?), then tablets, then curated music... Now you, and other googlers, try to rewrite history saying google is/was actually against microsoft, or that google isn't really trying to compete (it is, and it's failing miserably, with motorolla being a perfect example, and Nest soon to follow). These are all excuses to mask googles immature and undeserved sense of hubris, which seems to be the only consistent variable behind google's habit of fecklessly attempting to compete with nearly all consumer tech companies (lately trying to copy amazon). It's pathetic.

   

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post #52 of 79
I note that VW's latest Golf in the USA has a lightening port but no USB. That suggests that most of its customers, not surprisingly, are iPhone owners. It also suggests that their lack of CarPlay doesn't translate into a seemingly suicidal anti-Apple stance.
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post #53 of 79
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Originally Posted by chrismarriott View Post
 

Google declared war against the wrong company.  They thought a 'device' company couldn't compete with online services, and therefore would be ultimately defeated.  Google continues to pay the price for biting off more than it could hope to chew.

 

Great comment.

 

Hubris is google's fatal flaw. I (and many others) initially thought google's "don't be evil" statement was genuine. However, in retrospect, it was merely grandiosity, as evidenced by googles subsequent stream of unethical practices, their constant desire to push boundaries (like a petulant teenager), and what seems to be an "end justifies the means" attitude towards all of their misdeeds. No amount of balloons, robot couriers, or contact lens pipe dreams are going to change google's rotten, and creepy, core.

   

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post #54 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Apple is making fast progress with their mapping efforts. Well done. It's not an easy thing to do.

 

I'm going to start calling these "sheep clothing" posts.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Why is there a need for a war? Google's business model doesn't really overlap Apple's and vice-versa. It's not as tho Google is taking away Apple device sales as they sell everything they can produce quarter after quarter and lead the world in profitability (ignoring oil). Outside of controlling the entire computer market and sucking up every last dollar of profit what more could Apple wish for? Apple and Google could peacefully co-exist, and in fact actually assist each other, if they choose. The "war" was of Steve Jobs making IMHO and hopefully Tim Cook has a different mindset.

 

You forgot the sarcasm tags with most of those comments. Without them your post is woefully hypocritical. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain you (or at least some other prominent google employees) have tried to justify android in the past saying that google "had" to create it because it was "inevitable" that Apple would eventually encroach on google's business and thus google was forced to preemptively compete in the cellphone market.. then I suppose laptops, then TV (six tries?), then tablets, then curated music... Now you, and other googlers, try to rewrite history saying google is/was actually against microsoft, or that google isn't really trying to compete (it is, and it's failing miserably, with motorolla being a perfect example, and Nest soon to follow). These are all excuses to mask googles immature and undeserved sense of hubris, which seems to be the only consistent variable behind google's habit of fecklessly attempting to compete with nearly all consumer tech companies (lately trying to copy amazon). It's pathetic.

so in other words Google should have stayed in search.
No other company is allowed to compete with Apple in anything and must immediately concede the ground Apple sells in?
Competition is good, without it you'd get stagnant monopolies.
I want Google, Apple, Samsung, Amazon et Al to be competing legally hard against each other to bring the best to the market to benefit us the consumer. Without that competition we as the consumer will suffer regardless of which side of the fence we sit on our personal preferences.
post #55 of 79

Could someone investigate whether there is some rule behind usage Apple/Google maps in Find my phone like browser based or location based?

I have little possibility to do that.

post #56 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Can't remember the attribution, but the quote rings true in a wide variety of situations:
"You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

That was a shampoo commercial lol
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post #57 of 79
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Originally Posted by singularity View Post

so in other words Google should have stayed in search.
No other company is allowed to compete with Apple in anything and must immediately concede the ground Apple sells in?
Competition is good, without it you'd get stagnant monopolies.
I want Google, Apple, Samsung, Amazon et Al to be competing legally hard against each other to bring the best to the market to benefit us the consumer. Without that competition we as the consumer will suffer regardless of which side of the fence we sit on our personal preferences.

Uhh no thanks with Samsung. As if they could run a business legally. Laughable. Let's replace them with HTC, LG, Microsoft/Nokia, etc- and I'll agree with your statement. If Samsung would go out of business- the tech world would be better for it. Their behavior is inexcusable- and when others see them benefit from their despicable tactics, it sets a terrible precedent.

As a side point- Patchy never said that google should stick to search and not compete with Apple. He was just pointing out the idiocy and hypocrisy of Gatorguys post- who said google had no thoughts of Apple when developing Android, just Microsoft- which is comical and like Patchy said, pathetic. You're relatively new here, you'll learn about Gatorguy soon enough- I mean, he calls iTunes Radio "iRadio" for Petes sake. 1smile.gif
Edited by Andysol - 7/9/14 at 5:22am

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post #58 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

I (and many others) initially thought google's "don't be evil" statement was genuine.

Supposedly it was never their statement, but someone else wrote that. They DID however agreed to this 'mantra', while knowing exactly they do things the wrong way. WiFi password sniffing, publishing copyright protected literature and such. Now before someone makes a claim they never were indicted convicted for that, it doesn't mean they weren't doing things by the book, so to speak.

I anyone feels like puking but for some reason can't the following might help:

Code of Conduct

Preface

“Don’t be evil.” Googlers generally apply those words to how we serve our users. But “Don’t be evil” is much more than that. Yes, it’s about providing our users unbiased access to information, focusing on their needs and giving them the best products and services that we can. But it’s also about doing the right thing more generally – following the law, acting honorably and treating each other with respect.

The Google Code of Conduct is one of the ways we put “Don’t be evil” into practice. It’s built around the recognition that everything we do in connection with our work at Google will be, and should be, measured against the highest possible standards of ethical business conduct. We set the bar that high for practical as well as aspirational reasons: Our commitment to the highest standards helps us hire great people, build great products, and attract loyal users. Trust and mutual respect among employees and users are the foundation of our success, and they are something we need to earn every day.



http://investor.google.com/corporate/code-of-conduct.html


Though this guy, employee #23 says he came up with Don't Be Evil...
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post #59 of 79
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Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


As a side point- Patchy never said that google should stick to search and not compete with Apple. He was just pointing out the idiocy and hypocrisy of Gatorguys post- who said google had no thoughts of Apple when developing Android, just Microsoft- which is comical and like Patchy said, pathetic. You're relatively new here, you'll learn about Gatorguy soon enough- I mean, he calls iTunes Radio "iRadio" for Petes sake. 1smile.gif

I said nothing of the sort. You are either being intentionally disingenuous or misreading what was written. What I said was Android was originally intended to blunt Microsoft's mobile plans. MS was already trying to push Google off the desktop and they didn't want the same to happen in mobile. Android was Google's plan for relevancy. An Apple iPhone wasn't even in the picture when Google began investing in the project in late 2004/early 2005. It wasn't even a twinkle in Steve Jobs eye. It was months later when Jobs was eventually convinced the iPhone was viable and development given the green light as an offshoot of the iPad "Project Purple". FACT that even DED would agree with.

There's absolutely no doubt that once the iPhone was official Mr. Jobs made it an issue that Google would be unable to ignore with threats of retaliation and eventually even war. It became personal. But that does not change the fact that Android was never intended to be an attack on Apple. It's simply revisionist bull* to make the assertion it was. That Mr. Jobs tirades and threats made sure Apple could not be ignored in the years since doesn't change history. Google never threatened war nor envisioned Android as a way of hurting Apple. There was zero benefit to them to do so. You've got things confused.

As I said several posts back you should perhaps research a bit more.
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/9/14 at 6:15am
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post #60 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismarriott View Post

The market hasn't woken up to the damage done to Google's business model by Apple doing its own Maps.

When you consider the value of the data Google was collecting from iOS users [you know, the folks who carry credit cards and spend 4x Android users on apps and media], Apple hit them where it hurts.

There's a war between Apple and Google and right now and Google is far, far more vulnerable to an attack from Apple. Apple can cut off their access to the most valuable mobile analytics and data on the planet. That strikes at the heart of Google's business model. Spotlight in iOS 8 and Yosemite is yet another salvo:

http://halifaxbloggers.ca/straighttech/2014/06/spotlight-the-war-between-apple-and-google/

Why is there a need for a war? Google's business model doesn't really overlap Apple's and vice-versa. It's not as tho Google is taking away Apple device sales as they sell everything they can produce quarter after quarter and lead the world in profitability (ignoring oil). Outside of controlling the entire computer market and sucking up every last dollar of profit what more could Apple wish for? Apple and Google could peacefully co-exist, and in fact actually assist each other, if they choose. The "war" was of Steve Jobs making IMHO and hopefully Tim Cook has a different mindset.

Such a trollish comment. Google are a cynical company which Apple are doing well to move away from. Their adolescent mindset originates from Schmidt and Page. Until those two go, there is no chance that their culture will change.

Talk of war is so much fluff. Apple are simply treating Google in the manner which they deserve: one of extreme caution.
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post #61 of 79
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Such a trollish comment. Google are a cynical company which Apple are doing well to move away from. Their adolescent mindset originates from Schmidt and Page. Until those two go, there is no chance that their culture will change.

Talk of war is so much fluff. Apple are simply treating Google in the manner which they deserve: one of extreme caution.

Ah, so a lapse in judgment by Mr. Jobs, Arthur Levinson, and Bill Campbell lead to the Apple partnership and sharing of board members then. 1hmm.gif
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/10/14 at 10:29am
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post #62 of 79
As an aside if you're searching for the Loch Ness Monster don't start with Google Maps. 1wink.gif

They've got their lakes confused.
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post #63 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I said nothing of the sort. You are either being intentionally disingenuous or misreading what was written. What I said was Android was originally intended to blunt Microsoft's mobile plans. MS was already trying to push Google off the desktop and they didn't want the same to happen in mobile. Android was Google's plan for relevancy. An Apple iPhone wasn't even in the picture when Google began investing in the project in late 2004/early 2005. It wasn't even a twinkle in Steve Jobs eye. It was months later when Jobs was eventually convinced the iPhone was viable and development given the green light as an offshoot of the iPad "Project Purple". FACT that even DED would agree with.

There's absolutely no doubt that once the iPhone was official Mr. Jobs made it an issue that Google would be unable to ignore with threats of retaliation and eventually even war. It became personal. But that does not change the fact that Android was never intended to be an attack on Apple. It's simply revisionist bull* to make the assertion it was. That Mr. Jobs tirades and threats made sure Apple could not be ignored in the years since doesn't change history. Google never threatened war nor envisioned Android as a way of hurting Apple. There was zero benefit to them to do so. You've got things confused.

As I said several posts back you should perhaps research a bit more.

 

Blame the dead guy eh? Classy. You somehow skipped quite a bit between the iPhone becoming official and "Jobs made it an issue that Google would be unable to ignore with threats of retaliation and eventually even war." In case you forgot, google's mole eric schmidt was on Apple's board prior to and after the iPhone's announcement. You're also ignoring that android underwent a significant redesign after the iPhone release, and google realized that they had to "start over" (in the words of a google engineer) specifically in reaction/competition/attack against the iPhone. It seems like you're the one who is confused, again.

 

They must be mixing some magic mushrooms in with the kool aid over in mountain view.


Edited by PatchyThePirate - 7/12/14 at 8:46pm

   

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post #64 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I said nothing of the sort. You are either being intentionally disingenuous or misreading what was written. What I said was Android was originally intended to blunt Microsoft's mobile plans. MS was already trying to push Google off the desktop and they didn't want the same to happen in mobile. Android was Google's plan for relevancy. An Apple iPhone wasn't even in the picture when Google began investing in the project in late 2004/early 2005. It wasn't even a twinkle in Steve Jobs eye. It was months later when Jobs was eventually convinced the iPhone was viable and development given the green light as an offshoot of the iPad "Project Purple". FACT that even DED would agree with.

There's absolutely no doubt that once the iPhone was official Mr. Jobs made it an issue that Google would be unable to ignore with threats of retaliation and eventually even war. It became personal. But that does not change the fact that Android was never intended to be an attack on Apple. It's simply revisionist bull* to make the assertion it was. That Mr. Jobs tirades and threats made sure Apple could not be ignored in the years since doesn't change history. Google never threatened war nor envisioned Android as a way of hurting Apple. There was zero benefit to them to do so. You've got things confused.

As I said several posts back you should perhaps research a bit more.

 

Blame the dead guy eh? Classy. You somehow skipped quite a bit between the iPhone becoming official and "Jobs made it an issue that Google would be unable to ignore with threats of retaliation and eventually even war." In case you forgot, google's mole eric schmidt was on Apple's board prior to and after the iPhone's announcement. You're also ignoring that android underwent a significant redesign after the iPhone release, and google realized that they had to "start over" (in the words of a google engineer) specifically in reaction/competition/attack against the iPhone. It seems like you're the one who is confused, again.

 

They must be mixing some magic mushrooms in with the kool aid over in mountain view.

It seems you've been on magic mushrooms. By your own admission android changed dramatically in implementation only after the iPhone was released. Eric the mole as you call him was a bloody bad mole if android was only changed in direction after everyone else knew about the iPhone and how good it was compared to the competition. Before that all the effort was going into the version to compete against BlackBerry.
Then again from Steve's statement about Eric's resignation it seems Eric was recusing himself (as required) from more and more meetings because of conflicts of interest. So how much Eric and thus google knew about what was going on for the iPhone is just a matter of conjecture as none of us know exactly how much he was privy to.
post #65 of 79
EDIT

LOL! Pip'd by Singularity
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/13/14 at 9:02am
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post #66 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


It seems you've been on magic mushrooms. By your own admission android changed dramatically in implementation only after the iPhone was released. Eric the mole as you call him was a bloody bad mole if android was only changed in direction after everyone else knew about the iPhone and how good it was compared to the competition. Before that all the effort was going into the version to compete against BlackBerry.
Then again from Steve's statement about Eric's resignation it seems Eric was recusing himself (as required) from more and more meetings because of conflicts of interest. So how much Eric and thus google knew about what was going on for the iPhone is just a matter of conjecture as none of us know exactly how much he was privy to.

 

I never said he was a good mole.

   

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post #67 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

It seems you've been on magic mushrooms. By your own admission android changed dramatically in implementation only after the iPhone was released. Eric the mole as you call him was a bloody bad mole if android was only changed in direction after everyone else knew about the iPhone and how good it was compared to the competition. Before that all the effort was going into the version to compete against BlackBerry.

Then again from Steve's statement about Eric's resignation it seems Eric was recusing himself (as required) from more and more meetings because of conflicts of interest. So how much Eric and thus google knew about what was going on for the iPhone is just a matter of conjecture as none of us know exactly how much he was privy to.

I never said he was a good mole.

I have a mole theory.

Schmidt knew about the iPhone early on and knew that he couldn't do anything about it too soon, as it would look suspicious. So behind the scenes, he quietly changed Android's direction, so that Google were able to introduce their touchscreen relatively quickly and therefore catch up quicker. And as I recall, people at the time were surprised by Google's speed at changing Android's UI.

Just a theory.
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post #68 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I have a mole theory.

Schmidt knew about the iPhone early on and knew that he couldn't do anything about it too soon, as it would look suspicious. So behind the scenes, he quietly changed Android's direction, so that Google were able to introduce their touchscreen relatively quickly and therefore catch up quicker. And as I recall, people at the time were surprised by Google's speed at changing Android's UI.

Just a theory.

ROFTL! 1biggrin.gif

How's this one: Schmidt knew all about the iPhone and its interface. He was smart enough to know not to move too fast tho (just as you said) so he actually sent everything he knew about it over to Palm so that they could get to work on their version of multi-touch for the Pre. That paved the way for a Google excuse to offer it themselves some months later when Apple didn't go after Palm. Very sneaky and well-planned. That Schmidt is a pretty smart guy. 1wink.gif

ooohh. . . or maybe this: Schmidt figured out early on that his position as Google CEO would draw attention when Android started using some of the secret Apple tech they had stolen from Apple labs. So instead of Schmidt it was a tag-team of Levinson and Campbell, also Google directors, who took turns feeding the latest to Page and Rubin while Eric would make sure everyone took note that he recused himself from Apple board discussions on upcoming products. But to make sure that any potential suspicions would fall on him rather than the true conspirators he used Google's entrenched network of paid bloggers to start rumors of his work as a mole, taking a bullet for the team. Dang good plan that worked perfectly don't you think? Jobs never suspected who the true moles were letting them continue their spy work for a few more months.
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/13/14 at 6:11pm
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post #69 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I have a mole theory.

Schmidt knew about the iPhone early on and knew that he couldn't do anything about it too soon, as it would look suspicious. So behind the scenes, he quietly changed Android's direction, so that Google were able to introduce their touchscreen relatively quickly and therefore catch up quicker. And as I recall, people at the time were surprised by Google's speed at changing Android's UI.

Just a theory.

ROFTL! 1biggrin.gif

ROFTL? Is that a bark or are you just pleased to see my post?
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #70 of 79
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

ROFTL? Is that a bark or are you just pleased to see my post?

I loved seeing your post. An opportunity to post a little humor on a slow Sunday evening is always appreciated.
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post #71 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


I have a mole theory.

Schmidt knew about the iPhone early on and knew that he couldn't do anything about it too soon, as it would look suspicious. So behind the scenes, he quietly changed Android's direction, so that Google were able to introduce their touchscreen relatively quickly and therefore catch up quicker. And as I recall, people at the time were surprised by Google's speed at changing Android's UI.

Just a theory.

 

That's certainly plausible. There are a number of scenarios that would work out in google's favor by having a mole on Apple's board. Judging by google's antagonistic, petty, and hyper-competitivie stance towards Apple post-mole, it seems clear that google's intent was to subvert Apple's position in the tech market, likely motivated by a delusional sense of entitlement for having come up with a search algorithm, which they capitalized on with hardly any sense of integrity. If anyone wants to sell illegal prescription drugs from Canada, google's your ad agency. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I loved seeing your post. An opportunity to post a little humor on a slow Sunday evening is always appreciated.

 

What's humorous are your continued attempts at trolling.

 

Edit: Why don't you just concede that Apple is the better company? You clearly have enough knowledge to see that this is true. Google has the potential to be a good company, but not if its current practices and juvenile attitudes are continually rationalized by yourself and other google fans.


Edited by PatchyThePirate - 7/13/14 at 10:30pm

   

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post #72 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


I have a mole theory.

Schmidt knew about the iPhone early on and knew that he couldn't do anything about it too soon, as it would look suspicious. So behind the scenes, he quietly changed Android's direction, so that Google were able to introduce their touchscreen relatively quickly and therefore catch up quicker. And as I recall, people at the time were surprised by Google's speed at changing Android's UI.

Just a theory.

 

That's certainly plausible. There are a number of scenarios that would work out in google's favor by having a mole on Apple's board. Judging by google's antagonistic, petty, and hyper-competitivie stance towards Apple post-mole, it seems clear that google's intent was to subvert Apple's position in the tech market, likely motivated by a delusional sense of entitlement for having come up with a search algorithm, which they capitalized on with hardly any sense of integrity. If anyone wants to sell illegal prescription drugs from Canada, google's your ad agency. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I loved seeing your post. An opportunity to post a little humor on a slow Sunday evening is always appreciated.

 

What's humorous are your continued attempts at trolling.

 

Edit: Why don't you just concede that Apple is the better company? You clearly have enough knowledge to see that this is true. Google has the potential to be a good company, but not if its current practices and juvenile attitudes are continually rationalized by yourself and other google fans.

I wouldn't say Gatorguy is trolling. He responds to statements with reasoning why he had that standpoint. If anything he's an asset to this forum, even if it's a rebuttal to some of the more outlandish Apple fawning that can happen whereby Apple can do no wrong and everything/everybody else is wrong wrong wrong. It must be hard for Gatorguy to be a troll when he is actually bringing something positive to this forum. Imho.
post #73 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

ROFTL? Is that a bark or are you just pleased to see my post?

I loved seeing your post. An opportunity to post a little humor on a slow Sunday evening is always appreciated.

Is that so, Mr. Rolling On The Floor Laughing Hyena…

😸
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post #74 of 79
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Originally Posted by singularity View Post


I wouldn't say Gatorguy is trolling. He responds to statements with reasoning why he had that standpoint. If anything he's an asset to this forum, even if it's a rebuttal to some of the more outlandish Apple fawning that can happen whereby Apple can do no wrong and everything/everybody else is wrong wrong wrong. It must be hard for Gatorguy to be a troll when he is actually bringing something positive to this forum. Imho.

 

If you take what gg is saying at face value, then you are making valid points, all of which I would agree with. However, gg has demonstrated a pattern of spinning information and omitting relevant information in order to make his points. Between his sometimes innocuous, and sometimes informative posts (which I have learned from; thanks for those gg), gg has clearly shown a preference for his agenda (to bolster google) over getting to the truth, which qualifies him as a troll, IMO.

 

To say that we need google fans to come here and troll in order to "balance" things out has always seemed ridiculous to me. It's like saying Apple needs competitors in order to innovate. At best it might accelerate certain discussions, but we certainly don't need trolls in order to be critical of Apple.

   

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post #75 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

If you take what gg is saying at face value, then you are making valid points, all of which I would agree with. However, gg has demonstrated a pattern of spinning information and omitting relevant information in order to make his points. Between his sometimes innocuous, and sometimes informative posts (which I have learned from; thanks for those gg), gg has clearly shown a preference for his agenda (to bolster google) over getting to the truth, which qualifies him as a troll, IMO.

To say that we need google fans to come here and troll in order to "balance" things out has always seemed ridiculous to me. It's like saying Apple needs competitors in order to innovate. At best it might accelerate certain discussions, but we certainly don't need trolls in order to be critical of Apple.
Could you link an example or two of what you consider "omitting information" or where you've felt I've promoted an agenda rather than looking for the truth? Perhaps you've misread or perhaps you've found a legitimate issue in some instances. I'd like to know what they are.
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post #76 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Could you link an example or two of what you consider "omitting information" or where you've felt I've promoted an agenda rather than looking for the truth? Perhaps you've misread or perhaps you've found a legitimate issue in some instances. I'd like to know what they are.

 

I don't feel like sifting through a bunch of old posts, rehashing old arguments, or getting into prolonged discussions about this, so my reply to you is going to be limited. As for omitting information, you seemed to do a good job of that in saying that android was not meant to be competitive against Apple (when it clearly was, as stated by google employees), and then trying to blame Steve Jobs who "made it an issue" while ignoring/omitting: 1) the context that google was getting evidence (direct, indirect, or both) via eric schmidt that likely influenced android's development and 2) the evidence that google significantly changed the direction of android's development in reaction to the iPhone being released, thus making it competitive to iPhone. As for promoting an agenda, in addition to the last example, you often spin information, and I'm not the only one who's noticed this.

   

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post #77 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

I don't feel like sifting through a bunch of old posts, rehashing old arguments, or getting into prolonged discussions about this, so my reply to you is going to be limited. As for omitting information, you seemed to do a good job of that in saying that android was not meant to be competitive against Apple (when it clearly was, as stated by google employees), and then trying to blame Steve Jobs who "made it an issue" while ignoring/omitting: 1) the context that google was getting evidence (direct, indirect, or both) via eric schmidt that likely influenced android's development and 2) the evidence that google significantly changed the direction of android's development in reaction to the iPhone being released, thus making it competitive to iPhone. As for promoting an agenda, in addition to the last example, you often spin information, and I'm not the only one who's noticed this.

Fair enough as I probably wouldn't take the time to do so either unless I already had an idea where to look.

Anyway, as far as yours or anyone else's claim that Eric Schmidt was taking Apple secrets back to share with Google it's simply an urban myth with no factual basis. No one with Apple ever hinted at it, no blogger with connections to Apple ever hinted at it, and there's no evidence whatsoever that you or anyone else has offered other than he was "in the right place at the right time" if he had wanted to.

I also did not "blame" Steve Jobs. What I said was that whether Google wanted to ignore comment made by him or not it became impossible to ignore and his reaction meant Google now had to deal with Apple too.

On to the reason for the purchase and initial development of Android by Google. It had nothing to do with Apple, much less meant to harm them. Period. There was no iOS or iPhone back then, nor had Steve Jobs even green-lighted developing one. We're talking about 2004/2005, absolutely-no-doubt-about-it pre-iPhone. Pretend all you want that Google was going after Apple. This is one of those instances where DED and I agree. Google was worried about Microsoft, not Apple. After Jobs reaction now Google had to worry about Apple as well.

Did Google change their hardware-build focus after seeing the iPhone? They obviously and clearly did. Apple had a great idea and had Google not recognized it they would have been pulling a Blackberry and sliding towards irrelevancy, and before they barely started. But to offer proof they weren't going after Apple they purposely avoided activating the already built-in multi-touch capability, the iPhone's premier feature, at the request of Mr. Jobs. The first Android phone, the G1, was intentionally crippled, with the function stripped out even tho it was there. If they were trying to hurt Apple why would they handicap their initial efforts? Palm sure didn't and they ended up being the impetus for Google finally activating multi-touch in late 2009 when Apple let it ride. Yet again not doing so would have been a step backwards towards irrelevance with other competing platforms now offering it. Simple common sense sir.

Now if you were to say Google today is competing with Apple in some areas I would 100% agree with you. But that's not the way Google and Android started out. Fact.

If you feel up to refuting any of this go for it. If you have facts to contradict anything then link away. Otherwise it's just a difference of opinion without facts on your side. Hardly rises to the level of trolling, tho perhaps you have your own definition of it that includes "I don't like what you said".
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/16/14 at 6:29pm
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post #78 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


I wouldn't say Gatorguy is trolling. He responds to statements with reasoning why he had that standpoint. If anything he's an asset to this forum, even if it's a rebuttal to some of the more outlandish Apple fawning that can happen whereby Apple can do no wrong and everything/everybody else is wrong wrong wrong. It must be hard for Gatorguy to be a troll when he is actually bringing something positive to this forum. Imho.

 

If you take what gg is saying at face value, then you are making valid points, all of which I would agree with. However, gg has demonstrated a pattern of spinning information and omitting relevant information in order to make his points. Between his sometimes innocuous, and sometimes informative posts (which I have learned from; thanks for those gg), gg has clearly shown a preference for his agenda (to bolster google) over getting to the truth, which qualifies him as a troll, IMO.

 

To say that we need google fans to come here and troll in order to "balance" things out has always seemed ridiculous to me. It's like saying Apple needs competitors in order to innovate. At best it might accelerate certain discussions, but we certainly don't need trolls in order to be critical of Apple.


Aah you just want Apple fans (what defines an Apple fan? At what level of fandom "allows" you the privelage to come to this forum?). Taking that attitude just ensures over time you get less and less real discussion and more self reinforcement of Apple=good everything else=bad. Gatorguy may come across to some as a rabid google fan (which I don't believe he is is) but he adds so much to the discussions because he has a different point of view. If trolling is adding to the discussion I hope he carries on. :thumbup:
post #79 of 79
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
…what defines an Apple fan? At what level of fandom "allows" you the privelage to come to this forum?

 

Anyone, who believes anything they wish, as long as they’re intelligent enough to actually present the point they’re making (or pretending to believe). Trolls aren’t. We don’t need people who spew FUD, lies, or hoaxes.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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