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Tim Cook promises Apple will release data on corporate diversity

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
During a question-and-answer session at Allen & Co.'s annual Sun Valley conference in Idaho, Apple CEO Tim Cook said the iPhone maker will eventually quantify the diversity of its workforce in a public disclosure, but that it is now "more focused on actions."

Apple CEO Tim Cook arrives at the 2014 Allen & Co. conference in Sun Valley | Source:
Apple CEO Tim Cook arrives at the 2014 Allen & Co. conference in Sun Valley | Source: Twitter


"We'll release the information at some point," Cook told Bloomberg, referring to diversity data that would likely break down its 80,000-strong workforce by age, gender, and ethnicity. Apple is "more focused on actions" in the meantime, he added.

The company has taken flack in recent months from human rights groups for the lack of diversity in its senior leadership, which counts only two women -- board member Andrea Jung and new retail chief Angela Ahrendts. The balance of the company's board and senior vice president-level executives are white men, though African-American human resources head Denise Young-Smith reports directly to Cook.

Among those chastising Apple are the Rev. Jesse Jackson, whose Rainbow PUSH Coalition recently launched a new campaign aimed at drawing awareness to the issue of racial diversity in Silicon Valley. "Technology is supposed to be about inclusion, but sadly, patterns of exclusion remains the order of the day," Jackson wrote in a letter addressed to Apple, Twitter, Facebook, Hewlett Packard, Google, and others.

Apple has responded to the criticism by publicly committing to increase diversity, including a tweak to the company's corporate charter that commits the board to "actively [seek] out highly qualified women and individuals from minority groups to include in the pool from which board nominees are chosen."

The company has also stepped up public demonstrations of support for LGBT equality under Cook. "Thousands" of Apple employees participated in last week's Pride Parade in San Francisco under Apple's banner, including Cook.
post #2 of 47

Uh, what a crock of shit. I'm vehemently against any kind of discrimination, especially in the hiring process and the workforce, but this is fucking ridiculous. What are these "diversity" numbers supposed to show? Should Apple have an even break-down of all minority groups represented in their total workforce #s, as well as ethnicities, ages, sexes, reglious backgrounds, etc to prove that they support "diversity"? How mind-numbing. Does a single person on the planet believes that Apple actually discriminates when hiring? I'm sure they pick the best person for the job, not to fill some "diversity" quota and get a nice looking pie-chart of their employee demographics.  

 

I can see Cook's reluctance to release these #s, as he knows they will be fodder for Apple being dragged through the mud by those with an agenda. They're irrelevant. Apple has nothing to prove in this regard. 

post #3 of 47

Just employ the right person for the job. If they happen to be non white or non straight or disabled then fair enough but don't start giving out jobs on the basis of forced diversity.

post #4 of 47
"Actively seeking out" women and minorities does not mean that they'll be hired ahead of a more qualified candidate.
post #5 of 47
Why the hell does anyone need to know this data?

And if Apple shows us, then let's have everyone else expose who works for them.
post #6 of 47

It's a human right to be a CEO? Where do I sign up? I won't even need a corner office, although a private bathroom would be kind of nice.

 

Honestly, if I was a CEO, anyone demanding information form my company, and it wasn't SEC or other regulatory public required info, would be told to go f*** themselves sideways.

 

Take Apple private, Cook, and tell all the yahoos, including Wall Street and it's village idiot pundits, where to stick it all.

post #7 of 47
Tim, cut this crap out.

Besides, Jesse Jackson is a hack. Why is anyone still listening to him?
post #8 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post
 

Just employ the right person for the job. If they happen to be non white or non straight or disabled then fair enough but don't start giving out jobs on the basis of forced diversity.

As the next person to post after you points out, seeking is not hiring.

 

However, you can't find them if you don't look, and since we know human biases lead us to weed out qualified people if we don't look, I would rather Apple actively look, and continue to be a moral and decent company, than pretend they can be unbiased and keep hiring the all white male CIS crew that is the norm in corporate America.

 

But your desire to maintain the status quo is noted.  Thanks for playing.

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post #9 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post
 

As the next person to post after you points out, seeking is not hiring.

 

However, you can't find them if you don't look, and since we know human biases lead us to weed out qualified people if we don't look, I would rather Apple actively look, and continue to be a moral and decent company, than pretend they can be unbiased and keep hiring the all white male CIS crew that is the norm in corporate America.

 

But your desire to maintain the status quo is noted.  Thanks for playing.


So being "moral and decent" means they should not hire qualified white male candidates when they find them, instead delaying the hiring process searching for someone of color or a female.

 

Your bias is noted, thanks for playing.

post #10 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The company has taken flack in recent months from human rights groups for the lack of diversity....

 

Choosing a less-qualified candidate because of some demographic they are a part of would demonstrate a kind of managerial competence fundamentally different from that which would promote long term health and growth of a company.  I think it would be the fiduciary obligation to Apple's shareholders for their upper management to select candidates based on skill and experience and entirely regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity.

 

That said, I think it makes total sense to encourage minorities to apply.  If minority candidates who wouldn't otherwise apply for positions without Apple's specific encouragement/efforts do so, and those candidates are better than the rest of the pool, Apple gets a better person on board while increasing their diversity, scoring a PR win for doing so.  It's strategic on both counts, and I can't help but think that many of the top brass at Apple really do want to conscientiously avoid bias in hiring (which is commendable for any business).  Once the applicant pool is final, of course it should be on merit from there on out.

 

Affirmative action type measures are a whole other (and, at least from some, a well-intentioned but fundamentally flawed) matter.


Edited by jinglesthula - 7/9/14 at 12:14pm

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post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet_Desperation View Post

It's a human right to be a CEO? Where do I sign up? I won't even need a corner office, although a private bathroom would be kind of nice.

Honestly, if I was a CEO, anyone demanding information form my company, and it wasn't SEC or other regulatory public required info, would be told to go f*** themselves sideways.

Take Apple private, Cook, and tell all the yahoos, including Wall Street and it's village idiot pundits, where to stick it all.
I have a feeling Cook isn't doing this because he feels pressured or forced to. Just like we get updates on supply chain and the environment I suspect we'll soon get public updates on diversity. This is Tim Cook's Apple.
post #12 of 47
Redacted
Edited by jinglesthula - 7/9/14 at 7:32pm

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post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

What are these "diversity" numbers supposed to show? Should Apple have an even break-down of all minority groups represented in their total workforce #s, as well as ethnicities, ages, sexes, reglious backgrounds, etc to prove that they support "diversity"?

It could stand as evidence for board representation. If their workforce is 20% women, they don't need 50% of the board to be women.

Whatever way the numbers turn out, I think they should consider Salma Hayek for the board:



Female and Mexican, that's two groups in one. I'm sure she's good with computers and things to qualify for the board.
post #14 of 47
I think many of you here are missing the point. Now only are most of Citizens of the United States of America, but we are also citizens of Earth. If Apple is to continue to flourish; it needs to understand World Cultures. Here are to simple example and there are many: Sav-Ons Drugs changed their name to Osco - in Spanish it means Nauseous. The Chevy Nova failed in Latin America. In Spanish No va may mean it doesn't run, doesn't move, etc.

Bottom line the more Multi-Cultural Apple becomes the better it can market its products.

Regarding Jesse Jackson, Apple just made Dr. Dre a billionaire. Maybe Dr. Dre should donate some $$$ to Jesse Jackson's cause, which I fully support.
post #15 of 47

...and the walls come tumblin' down...

post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinglesthula View Post
 

 

Choosing a less-qualified candidate because of some demographic they are a part of would demonstrate a kind of managerial competence fundamentally different from that which would promote long term health and growth of a company.  I think it would be the fiduciary obligation to Apple's shareholders for their upper management to select candidates based on skill and experience and entirely regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity.

 

That said, I think it makes total sense to encourage minorities to apply.  If minority candidates who wouldn't otherwise apply for positions without Apple's specific encouragement/efforts do so, and those candidates are better than the rest of the pool, Apple gets a better person on board while increasing their diversity, scoring a PR win for doing so.  It's strategic on both counts, and I can't help but think that many of the top brass at Apple really do want to conscientiously avoid bias in hiring (which is commendable for any business).  Once the applicant pool is final, of course it should be on merit from there on out.

 

Affirmative action type measures are a whole other (and, at least from some, a well-intentioned but fundamentally flawed) matter.

 

Excellent post. 

post #17 of 47
"actively [seek] out highly qualified women and individuals from minority groups"

This is discrimination, are Apple being accused of not being racist/genderist enough?

Diversity can't be forced, or assumed or it becomes the thing it accuses others of being.
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #18 of 47
Why do I get the feeleing that Jesse "Never Misses An Opportunity To Play The Race Card" Jackson'll use this report to extort, I mean gain concessions, from Apple?
post #19 of 47

Jesse Jackson is akin to a blackmailer, IMO. He should take care of his own house before he criticizes others.

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post #20 of 47

Screw these professional blackmailers and vile racists!

 

Apple shouldn't release anything at all to these groups.

 

What's next, is Apple going to hand over data to the KKK and the Nazis if they request it?

 

What a bunch of garbage.

post #21 of 47

No one anywhere is saying choose less qualified candidates.  If you think minorities are less qualified, that is your opinion.  The fact that these tech companies have a majority of white male workers, doesn't mean that minorities are not qualified to work for these companies.  How are you measuring qualified?

post #22 of 47
Of all companies to hit up for an affirmative action style issue I would pick Apple as the last candidate. In all actuality I would mark this to be true of most Silicon Valley companies (meaning most Silicon Valley companies tend to be ethnically diverse and gender neutral). Heck, California is probably the stereotype of diversity as most other US states make California up to be. What is this crap and why Apple?
post #23 of 47

I've used Macs since the mid-1980s and have never owned WinPCs. Over the years I noticed that not many non-Whites used Apple products -- I would imagine that there were many reasons for this.

 

Also, a lot of Apple recruitment is done through head-hunting rather than advertising vacancies, which is usually reserved for "lower end" posts.

post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurepe View Post
 

No one anywhere is saying choose less qualified candidates.  If you think minorities are less qualified, that is your opinion.  The fact that these tech companies have a majority of white male workers, doesn't mean that minorities are not qualified to work for these companies.  How are you measuring qualified?

 

Diversity and affirmative action leads to lesser qualified people, as they are able to jump ahead of people that are more qualified and smarter than they are.

 

You're applying for a job as a policeman or fireman in certain places, and you didn't score that great on your test? No problem, our wonderful system will grant you a spot ahead of other people that are more qualified than you.

 

Hopefully, the next time that a progressive person's home burns down, I truly hope that they get the most "diverse" and affirmative action firemen that are available and that shows up to respond to their fire and life threatening emergency. Progressive people, my favorite kind of people, deserve nothing less. I only want the very best for them. I want to see midgets responding to their fire. I want to see 400 pound lesbians responding to their fire. I want to see illegal aliens responding to their fire. I want to see people who can't even speak English respond to their fire! I want to see weak, little women responding to the fire! I want to see people of all colors responding to their fire, the darker, the better! Hopefully, at least one fire person is also an LGBT person, too. Let's hear it for diversity! Yay!

 

I know that if my home were burning down, I'd simply want the best people for the job to be responding, but that's just me. :smokey: 


Edited by Apple ][ - 7/9/14 at 2:52pm
post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

Diversity and affirmative action leads to lesser qualified people, as they are able to jump ahead of people that are more qualified and smarter than they are.

 

You're applying for a job as a policeman or fireman in certain places, and you didn't score that great on your test? No problem, our wonderful system will grant you a spot ahead of other people that are more qualified than you.

 

Hopefully, the next time that a progressive person's home burns down, I truly hope that they get the most "diverse" and affirmative action firemen that are available and that shows up to respond to their fire and life threatening emergency. Progressive people, my favorite kind of people, deserve nothing less. I only want the very best for them. I want to see midgets responding to their fire. I want to see 400 pound lesbians responding to their fire. I want to see illegal aliens responding to their fire. I want to see people who can't even speak English respond to their fire! I want to see weak, little women responding to the fire! I want to see people of all colors responding to their fire, the darker, the better! Hopefully, at least one fire person is also an LGBT person, too. Let's hear it for diversity! Yay!

 

I know that if my home were burning down, I'd simply want the best people for the job to be responding, but that's just me. :smokey: 

 

 

Diversity is always better, especially in creative endeavors.  I mean why do people go to the city where they can experience a lot of cultures in a small space?  You don't think innovation never happened in world-culture centers in early history?

 

Why do you also assume in your first paragraph that non-whites and women are automatically going to bring down quality?  

 

Don't you think that it's because of attitudes like yours (which all people have been known subconsciously have)  are actually stopping good candidates from being considered?  Those assumptions could also be why women get paid less for equal work?  

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/03/12/3396151/women-bias-math-stem/

 

http://jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/hiring100803a.html

 

http://www.dmiblog.com/archives/2007/09/white_convicts_as_likely_to_be.html

 

 

Do you just think white men are the only strong, smart, moral people in the world?

 

post #26 of 47

I think diversity in all ways from age to sex to race or whatever is a great thing for creativity - not PR.

 

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6858215

 

To me it's like why people throughout history went to cities to invent, share and do business.  

post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Jesse Jackson is akin to a blackmailer, IMO.

That's racist. /s

Where ever there are cameras, Jesse will be close by.

It's interesting why there aren't more Asians in upper mgmt in a lot of the tech companies.
post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post
 


So being "moral and decent" means they should not hire qualified white male candidates when they find them, instead delaying the hiring process searching for someone of color or a female.

 

Your bias is noted, thanks for playing.

 

If you read what I actually said, I said they should seek whatever candidate is qualified.  Seeking among every possible candidate is not hiring.  It is looking to make sure you have checked among all possible candidates before you hire.  As I clearly said.

 

Your stupidity is noted.  Thanks for playing.

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post #29 of 47
Why do I get the feeling most posters here are white men? Hmmm, I wonder.
post #30 of 47

Generally phrases like "don't start giving out jobs on the basis of forced diversity" are comments from people who mean to say "I have a job, I don't see why white males are not the normal go to candidates.  We don't discriminate!  Who says we don't hire X type of person" while ignoring the mountains of data that human beings do, almost always, have such bias.

 

If I am reading in where it truly doesn't exist, then I apologize.  But that is my experience.

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post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurepe View Post
 

No one anywhere is saying choose less qualified candidates.  If you think minorities are less qualified, that is your opinion.  The fact that these tech companies have a majority of white male workers, doesn't mean that minorities are not qualified to work for these companies.  How are you measuring qualified?

This.....

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post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessagePad2100 View Post
 Those assumptions could also be why women get paid less for equal work?  

 

Not my problem at all. I don't really care if women are paid less than men.

 

And also, most of the people and groups who complain about that are a bunch of hypocrites.

 

Women paid significantly less in Obama White House than their male counterparts

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2128513/Women-paid-significantly-Obama-White-House-male-counterparts.html

 

War on women, indeed.:lol:

 

And yes, I do also believe that most significant advances that have happened on this planet have come primarily from white men. The world would be an absolute mess and far more primitive if not for "the white man". White men should start holding their own parades soon, to celebrate their greatness, if you ask me.

 

I am tired of racist minorities and other underachievers who constantly whine about "the white man".

post #33 of 47
Originally Posted by cali View Post
Why the hell does anyone need to know this data?

 

To feel better about themselves.

 

Originally Posted by shen View Post

the all white male CIS crew

 

SHUT. UP.

 

Originally Posted by paxman View Post
Why do I get the feeling most posters here are white men?

 

Common sense? Statistics? 

 

Originally Posted by shen View Post

This.....

 

SHUT. UP.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Uh, what a crock of shit. I'm vehemently against any kind of discrimination, especially in the hiring process and the workforce, but this is fucking ridiculous. What are these "diversity" numbers supposed to show? Should Apple have an even break-down of all minority groups represented in their total workforce #s, as well as ethnicities, ages, sexes, reglious backgrounds, etc to prove that they support "diversity"? How mind-numbing. Does a single person on the planet believes that Apple actually discriminates when hiring? I'm sure they pick the best person for the job, not to fill some "diversity" quota and get a nice looking pie-chart of their employee demographics.  


I can see Cook's reluctance to release these #s, as he knows they will be fodder for Apple being dragged through the mud by those with an agenda. They're irrelevant. Apple has nothing to prove in this regard. 
Well said......Couldn't agree more.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


That's racist. /s

Where ever there are cameras, Jesse will be close by.

It's interesting why there aren't more Asians in upper mgmt in a lot of the tech companies.

 

Hmm... From personal experience at an unnamed company, I have a little insight into how Jackson operates.


Edited by SpamSandwich - 7/9/14 at 6:15pm

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post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS9 View Post

I think many of you here are missing the point. Now only are most of Citizens of the United States of America, but we are also citizens of Earth. If Apple is to continue to flourish; it needs to understand World Cultures. Here are to simple example and there are many: Sav-Ons Drugs changed their name to Osco - in Spanish it means Nauseous. The Chevy Nova failed in Latin America. In Spanish No va may mean it doesn't run, doesn't move, etc.

Bottom line the more Multi-Cultural Apple becomes the better it can market its products.

Regarding Jesse Jackson, Apple just made Dr. Dre a billionaire. Maybe Dr. Dre should donate some $$$ to Jesse Jackson's cause, which I fully support.

 

I support the goal of diversity, it makes for a stronger company and imbues the company with a greater variety of viewpoints. I do not support quotas, which is arguably what Jackson's group pushes.

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post #37 of 47
Quote:
 Not my problem at all. I don't really care if women are paid less than men.

 

Quote:
 War on women, indeed.:lol:

 

 

You answered yourself.  Thanks.  

 

 

Quote:
 The world would be an absolute mess and far more primitive if not for "the white man".

Citation needed - and not just Stormfront links.  Also are French people the same as Americans, and Irish, and Italian men?  Also don't you think that "the white man"  is responsible for a lot of the primitivism in the world due to colonialism, Dick Cheneyesque destabilizing countries and such?  I mean a lot of fighting in the world can be attributed to where the colonialists drew political demarcations on maps.  

 

 

Quote:
 I am tired of racist minorities and other underachievers who constantly whine about "the white man".

 

What about people who think because a white guy did something cool once, that it means that they must also be smart because they are white.

 

Was they Syrian half of Steve Jobs holding him back?  Also.  What about Ada Lovelace?  How did she hold back computing with her extra X Chromosome?

 

How can minorities be a part of systemic racism?  How can minorities hold down "the white man" when you say "the white man" is the the reason for everything awesome - like colonialism solving primitivism.

 

 

Quote:
 

Women paid significantly less in Obama White House than their male counterparts

 

FYI.  Just because someone is a hypocrite, doesn't mean they are actually wrong with their statements.  You are just deflecting your dumbassery by invoking Obama's name.  Fox News has trained you well.

 

I don't care about blaming anyone based on color, btw.

 

Looking forward to your simplistic  Teahadi talking points.  And I look forward to you straw-manning other people.  It should be as predictable as Fox Noise and Talk Radio.  I mean, we know we can't rely on you for anything original.

 

It's not about color, BTW.  I think you are missing out because you think "the white man" is the only solution.

 

 

post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

SHUT. UP.

 

Well, you know, as long as you have a well reasoned argument.....

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post #39 of 47
Originally Posted by shen View Post

Well, you know, as long as you have a well reasoned argument.....

 

You first. Nothing you said is reflective of anything intelligent or real.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

 

I support the goal of diversity, it makes for a stronger company and imbues the company with a greater variety of viewpoints. I do not support quotas, which is arguably what Jackson's group pushes.


Sometimes achieving the goal of diversity requires quotas.

 

And when you're dealing with a creative company like Apple, the best qualified person for a job may well be a candidate who isn't necessarily the one with the best test score. 

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