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Trio of Apple sapphire-related inventions point to iOS device displays, illuminated buttons - Page 2

post #41 of 64
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
Notification LED... Yes or No?

 

Third option: Why?

 
If yes.... Front or Back?

 

Back.

 
I'm just trying to figure out why you think the BACK of the phone is the proper place to put a notification LED?

 

See:

 

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
If you can see the front, you can see the screen, and the notifications show up there already.
 
We probably won't EVER see this come to fruition anyway. Next rumor?

 

IGZO screens from Sony and Intel-built ARM chips with custom audio hardware from Beats.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

This article talks about the possibility of illuminated buttons... there is a button on the front... so a notification light was my first thought.

I agree that if you're specifically going to build this in as a feature, not just an Accessibility option, then being seen from the front is where it should be. Putting it in the Home Button would fall right into Apple's design parameters and I wouldn't think that a small pinhole for an LED light that illuminates that sapphire Home Button would really affect Touch ID (just speculation). If it does, it's also possible to be positions at some other place and illuminate the Home Button, right? Or what about the Sleep button rolling in and out of a white glowing state if it couldn't be in the Home Button? I'd think you should be able to see it from the front. Still, I'd think the easiest solution is at the "forehead" with the other small, round sensors next to the speaker.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #43 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Third option: Why?

Back.

I get it... you're saying "why do you need a notification LED if you have the screen?"

Do you know how many times people push the home button to illuminate the entire screen just to check for missed notifications? That's where a little blinking LED comes into play... and that's why many phones have them. (or had them)

Yes... the screen lights up when you have a new notification. This isn't about that.

The problem is... the screen does not stay on to keep notifying you if you happen to be looking away from your phone or you are physically away from the phone. Again... that's why the notification LED existed in the first place. It was a gentle reminder.

And why is the back of the phone the best place for it? The point of a notification LED is glancability. If the LED is covered by the phone... you won't see it!

You're probably thinking that since the iPhone doesn't have a front notification LED... that no phone should have ever had a front notification LED.

I loved it when my Blackberry had one. And I'm not the only person to think that:

"I had the HTC Nexus One and I loved how the phone had the lighted trackball which could be used for missed call/message indications."
"I personally enjoy having that light because I don't want to have to keep checking my phone to see if I got a new message or email."
"But I do agree, the RGB LED on my Nexus One (and my earlier G1) is incredibly useful. Especially in situations where the phone needs to be dead silent."
"I want to take a step back and say that all phones should come standard with one period"
"I like my nexus 4 notification light. I never want to put my phones screen face down"

Sadly... most phones don't have notification LEDs anymore. But that doesn't make me not want one anymore!
post #44 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

you have to wake up the entire screen to check missed messages.

Motorola has proven otherwise
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #45 of 64
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
I get it... you're saying "why do you need a notification LED if you have the screen?"

 

On the front, yes.

 
Do you know how many times people push the home button to illuminate the entire screen just to check for missed notifications?

 

No more often than they’d use it anyway.

 
Yes... the screen lights up when you have a new notification. This isn't about that.

 

And it shows the notification whenever you turn the screen on.

 
And why is the back of the phone the best place for it?

 

BECAUSE THERE’S ALREADY AN LED THERE. AND IF YOU’RE LOOKING AT THE FRONT, YOU CAN SEE THE SCREEN ALREADY.

 
The point of a notification LED is glancability. If the LED is covered by the phone... you won't see it!

 

When is this ever the case? Not in your pocket; the screen is against your leg. Not in your purse; the light shows up in that darkness regardless of orientation. Not in its dock; light bounces.

 
You're probably thinking that since the iPhone doesn't have a front notification LED... that no phone should have ever had a front notification LED.

 

...

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #46 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

If you can see the front, you can see the screen, and the notifications show up there already.

 

 

i think you missed the point. It was not to have two notifications on the front, but a more desecrate home button glow as the choice notification display. 

 

Just because there is one on the front, doesn't mean you need one on the back, but might allow for a better choice for one on the front. 

 

Using a light source that is facing away from the user, for an indicator to that user, just because it already exists, is very poor logic. 

post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Motorola has proven otherwise

Very true... that's a sexy implementation.

Now if only the other 1,000 smartphone models had that feature.

Motorola seems to have have great ideas. Active Display on the Moto X shows you information when you need it... the Droid Maxx laughs at the "wall huggers" always searching for power.

It's shame Motorola has changed ownership twice in 18 months though.
post #48 of 64
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Using a light source that is facing away from the user, for an indicator to that user, just because it already exists, is very poor logic. 

 

It’s only facing away from the user in situations in which orientation are meaningless and do not detract from the ability to detect notifications.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #49 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

On the front, yes.

No more often than they’d use it anyway.

And it shows the notification whenever you turn the screen on.

BECAUSE THERE’S ALREADY AN LED THERE. AND IF YOU’RE LOOKING AT THE FRONT, YOU CAN SEE THE SCREEN ALREADY.

When is this ever the case? Not in your pocket; the screen is against your leg. Not in your purse; the light shows up in that darkness regardless of orientation. Not in its dock; light bounces.

...

You're basically saying that front notification LEDs are pointless... because you could just turn on the screen instead.

But the whole reason phones have front notification LEDs is so you don't have to turn on the screen to see if you have notifications.

I don't understand why you're so against that.

I've owned numerous phones that have front notification LEDs. I like them. Others do too.

Do people really complain when their phone have a screen and a notification LED? Oh the horror! 1biggrin.gif

You make it sound like manufacturers are completely insane for having notification LEDs... when, in fact, it is a very useful feature.
post #50 of 64
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
You're basically saying that front notification LEDs are pointless... because you could just turn on the screen instead.

 

Yep. That and the fact that we already have an LED on the device.

 
But the whole reason phones have front notification LEDs is so you don't have to turn on the screen to see if you have notifications.

 

If you have them, you’ll have to turn the screen on anyway. If it’s in a position where this would be “inconvenient” for you, the device will be being charged anyway, so it’s not a question of power.

 
You make it sound like manufacturers are completely insane for having notification LEDs... 

 

It’s like you’re not even reading what I’m writing.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It’s like you’re not even reading what I’m writing.

Look man... I've been following you for years. I like you. But maybe I'm not understanding this one topic.

Yes... if you have a notification that you need to take action on... you will need to turn on the screen.

But if your phone has an LED notification light... it NOT blinking would tell you that you DON'T need to check your phone. That's what the LED is supposed to do.

If it's blinking... check your phone and take action.

If it's not blinking... keep your hands off! 1smile.gif

That's nice.

The back camera flash LED... while the same concept in spirit... is not the same to me. My phone is never face-down. It's also in a dark case so I can't see the flash when it fires into my desk. And if my phone happens to be in an upright position... it's far too bright... like a strobe light. In short... I don't like it. And I don't know any iPhone owners who use it.

But that's just me.
post #52 of 64
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
The back camera flash LED... while the same concept in spirit... is not the same to me. My phone is never face-down. It's also in a dark case so I can't see the flash when it fires into my desk. And if my phone happens to be in an upright position... it's far too bright... like a strobe light.

 

Well, I covered all this in my posts, but again… 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #53 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yep. That and the fact that we already have an LED on the device.

If you have them, you’ll have to turn the screen on anyway. If it’s in a position where this would be “inconvenient” for you, the device will be being charged anyway, so it’s not a question of power.

It’s like you’re not even reading what I’m writing.

It's not the same thing. Even if that LED was on the front for, say, a front facing flash on the front facing camera for selfies it still wouldn't be the subtle and smooth rolling indicator light that's he's talking about. Perhaps the LED flash on the back can be made to do that but so far Apple hasn't included that. If you turn it on in Accessories it's pretty obnoxious when it goes off. I also don't think it will keep flashing where as the indictor he's talking about would be persistent until he turns on the display.

Think of like this. Imagine if when you received a new email or iMessage that would flash the badge on the app icon and then go away before you checked it. That would be useless for checking if you have any unread messages before going into the app, right?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #54 of 64
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Even if that LED was on the front for, say, a front facing flash on the front facing camera for selfies it still wouldn't be the subtle and smooth rolling indicator light that's he's talking about. 

 

Who says the flash in the back can’t breathe like the patented sleep light breathing? That’s what it ought to be doing.

 

I can see why they might not want to mix messages there (breathing means one thing on iOS and another on OS X), but they already do that with plenty of other things.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #55 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's not the same thing. Even if that LED was on the front for, say, a front facing flash on the front facing camera for selfies it still wouldn't be the subtle and smooth rolling indicator light that's he's talking about. Perhaps the LED flash on the back can be made to do that but so far Apple hasn't included that. If you turn it on in Accessories it's pretty obnoxious when it goes off. I also don't think it will keep flashing where as the indictor he's talking about would be persistent until he turns on the display.

Think of like this. Imagine if when you received a new email or iMessage that would flash the badge on the app icon and then go away before you checked it. That would be useless for checking if you have any unread messages before going into the app, right?

Thank you for understanding what I'm talking about 1smile.gif

Old Blackberries had a subtle LED notifier... and even brand new Galaxy S and other modern smartphones do too. It gently and continually blinks if you have a notification... and doesn't blink when you don't. And it's on the front of the phone too! Wow!

I don't know why TS is so against that. I think it's a very useful feature.

Just for fun... I turned on the "LED Flash for Alerts" under "Accessibility" on my iPhone... and tilted my phone up so the flash was visible.

Holy crap! I thought my office was struck by lightning! 1biggrin.gif

That's definitely not the ideal implementation. But hey... Apple tried.

Come to think of it... I think I had an old flip-phone that had an LED notifier...
post #56 of 64
"aluminum oxide ceramic (sapphire)"

Wow, is this science following art? Wasn't transparent aluminium a sci-fi fiction from 'Star Trek'. The trekkies have done it again. But check this out - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek_materials
post #57 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

It’s only facing away from the user in situations in which orientation are meaningless and do not detract from the ability to detect notifications.

 

Ha! That's like saying a flashing light on the back of my laptop screen is logical as I could be walking towards it at some point. 

 

If the screen is not facing, or visible to the user, then most likely the phone is in a position not important to the user. If it is in your purse, then it is least important to you and having a light on the front or back means nothing. If you look into your purse, you are could simply look at the face to see notification as easily as the back. 

 

So being more people would be facing the user end of their device, it is more logical to have notifications on the front, whether overt by having the face display the notification or more covert by having only the home button light up. 

 

Show me one user case where someone would need to see a notification on the back, where the front would not be equally, or more logical. 

post #58 of 64
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Show me one user case where someone would need to see a notification on the back, where the front would not be equally, or more logical. 

 

That’s not what I’m arguing, though.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #59 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

That’s not what I’m arguing, though.

 

lol, I'm sorry then.... bring me back on track

 

I'm arguing that a rear indicator is less logical than a front as you see the front far more often than the rear, and if there is a case where the rear would show to the user, such as a purse, then it is more likely that user is less concerned about notifications, and if concerned, can as easily turn to see the front as the rear. 

 

What was your argument with that? 

post #60 of 64
Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post

Im arguing that a rear indicator is less logical than a front as you see the front far more often than the rear

 

And I see what you’re saying here, and if you’re already looking at the front, you have the screen to notify you.

 
…and if there is a case where the rear would show to the user, such as a purse, then it is more likely that user is less concerned about notifications, and if concerned, can as easily turn to see the front as the rear. 

 

Exactly! In orientation-specific use cases, such as being in a pocket, the back being the notification works fine. In orientation-nonspecific cases, such as being in a purse, it’s fine, too; the light will reflect and show up regardless of if the back is facing you. Even on your desk in a dock (or laying down), you’ll see the light from the back.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #61 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

And I see what you’re saying here, and if you’re already looking at the front, you have the screen to notify you.

 

The point was not that you are already looking at the front so why change, but, that you could have a more discrete notification than your entire screen lighting up, which in meetings, for example, is distracting. 

 
 Exactly! In orientation-specific use cases, such as being in a pocket, the back being the notification works fine. In orientation-nonspecific cases, such as being in a purse, it’s fine, too; the light will reflect and show up regardless of if the back is facing you. Even on your desk in a dock (or laying down), you’ll see the light from the back.

 

No, again. The back has no advantage in these cases over the front. It is just different. No gain. The front has gain which is to be discrete. 

post #62 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And I see what you’re saying here, and if you’re already looking at the front, you have the screen to notify you.

Exactly! In orientation-specific use cases, such as being in a pocket, the back being the notification works fine. In orientation-nonspecific cases, such as being in a purse, it’s fine, too; the light will reflect and show up regardless of if the back is facing you. Even on your desk in a dock (or laying down), you’ll see the light from the back.

If the phone is hidden in your pocket or purse... you won't see the screen or the light. But that's not where the light comes in handy.

The light is for the times when you're away from your phone and you return to it. You can see if you have any missed notifications without waking the phone.

And 9 times out of 10... the front of the phone is most visible... not the back. That's why manufacturers have historically put the notification light on the front of the phone.

All Apple did was repurpose the camera flash into a makeshift notification light... which happens to be on the back of the phone. That doesn't mean notification lights belong on the back. What Apple did was an anomaly.

Almost every other smartphone that has a notification light has it on the front.
post #63 of 64
I'd like to see a multi-colored LED in the home button, with each color designating what and how many notifications you have, by the number of times the LED flashes. Say, for instance, if you have 5 missed calls, a green home button LED would flash five times; 4 emails, a red LED would flash 4 times. All of this should be able to be modified by the user in the control center.

I owned an Android back in 2009 and loved the red light that flashed when I had a missed call. I've gotten used to grabbing my phone to check for missed calls over the years but I'm still baffled why Apple hasn't incorporated this light notification feature into the iPhone. It would be so simple, and you could turn it off if you had no use for it.

Any thoughts on why they haven't?
post #64 of 64
Originally Posted by Eric38 View Post
I'd like to see a multi-colored LED in the home button, with each color designating what and how many notifications you have, by the number of times the LED flashes. Say, for instance, if you have 5 missed calls, a green home button LED would flash five times; 4 emails, a red LED would flash 4 times. All of this should be able to be modified by the user in the control center.

 

That’s Android nonsense. No one is going to remember that. There’s a reason the 3rd gen iPod shuffle flopped.

 
I'm still baffled why Apple hasn't incorporated this light notification feature into the iPhone. Any thoughts on why they haven't?

 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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