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Apple joins President Obama's 'SupplierPay' initiative aimed at boosting U.S. small business - Page 2

post #41 of 98

Only just, and the incumbent will always carry a current bias for those kinds of questions, whether good or bad.

 

Obama's average approval rating still seem to be tracking above Bush's at exit.

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post #42 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Only just, and the incumbent will always carry a current bias for those kinds of questions, whether good or bad.

 

Obama's average approval rating still seem to be tracking above Bush's at exit.

 

Great. He's 'less hated than Bush'... LOL.

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post #43 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post
 

I have never understand the venom people have with Al Gore being on Apple's board of directors. Would you please enlighten me to why you do not like the man?


Want the short list?

 

Truthfully, if you have to ask, you'll have a hard time understanding why. I think today most people are pretty aware of the huge disconnect between the elite few that are hand selected for political office.........and real people.

 

But, there are still those that believe that political leaders are actually real people that get legitimately nominated/elected for office.

 

To be one of these people, you need not be a person, but a soulless monster, wiling to set aside all moral/logical obligation to the world, and do what you're told....and you will go far. Al Gore is a prime example of this....not only did he play ball well enough to get to the level of vice president of the US, but he was willing to be the poster child for "global warming" which morphed into "all climate change of any kind" and "carbon tax". It took a real nut job to convince it would be a good idea to attach your name and face to such a scam.

 

So, on the whole, I'd prefer to delude myself into believing Apple is not the kind of company that lays down to the government and lays down to social engineering scams.....but I can't, as much as I try. Al Gore being a glaring example.

 

-----

P.S. Do not attack me over climate change comments. The climate does change, every minute of everyday. But when political leader shouts "Carbon TAX!" as the answer....you are being scammed.

post #44 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Politics is a cesspool that should be avoided by companies...

I wish it was avoidable but it does appear for Apple to best serve their customers best they need to be more involved. We've seen what has happened to Apple from a lack of lobbying (and by extension what hasn't happened to Amazon and Google from extensive lobbying efforts).

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post #45 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post

I have never understand the venom people have with Al Gore being on Apple's board of directors. Would you please enlighten me to why you do not like the man?

It has to do Gore's claim of a mythical beast¡

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post #46 of 98
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
It reads like you two want to Apple to do what John Boehner does and oppose anything Obama says regardless of its merit.

 

I don’t recall anyone saying anything about Boehner–or any republican, neo or paleo–whatsoever. 

 

Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Is that the message we want express?

 

Yes, as the analogy is only valid insofar as it doesn’t take into consideration the actions of the characters in question. The unpopular kid, in this sense, is not unpopular because of trifles of subjectivity.

Originally Posted by helia

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Originally Posted by helia

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post #47 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don’t recall anyone saying anything about Boehner–or any republican, neo or paleo–whatsoever. 

Huh? Boehner opposes anything Obama does just as SpamSandwich is suggesting Apple should do here. Even if they doing it for completely different reasons the result is the same.
Quote:
Yes, as the analogy is only valid insofar as it doesn’t take into consideration the actions of the characters in question. The unpopular kid, in this sense, is not unpopular because of trifles of subjectivity.

So if an unpopular kid does something that is ood and just the other characters shouldn't just react negatively to everything he does without any objective consideration? That's usually not how these movies end. Even William Zabka's character congratulated Daniel-san at the end of the movie.

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post #48 of 98
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Boehner opposes anything Obama does…

 

Huh? That hasn’t been the case for a while. They’re in line with quite a few things.

 
So if an unpopular kid does something that is ood and just the other characters shouldn't just react negatively to everything he does without any objective consideration?

 

But now you’re introducing more conditionals, implying things that have never been stated.

Originally Posted by helia

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post #49 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But now you’re introducing more conditionals, implying things that have never been stated.

What conditionals? A movie reference? That was suppose to be funny.

The point doesn't change. If [someone] makes a decision I don't like I won't support it. if they make a decision I do like I'll support it. I do that very frequently on this site with people I give thumbs up yet usually disagree with as well as disagreeing with people I usually tend to agree with. Right now, we're doing that. I'll judge each comment on their own merit, regardless of the poster, and I hope you do the same.

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post #50 of 98
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
What conditionals?

 

The implication that no objective consideration has been taken.

 
If [someone] makes a decision I don't like I won't support it.

 

I rather think that’s what Spam is doing, yeah? He made no comment about politics other than on the grand scale of federal dissatisfaction.

Originally Posted by helia

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post #51 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The implication that no objective consideration has been taken. I rather think that’s what Spam is doing, yeah? He made no comment about politics other than on the grand scale of federal dissatisfaction.

Based on the comments, "Apple needs to be a bit more aware that there is "not a lot of love left" for this president, this administration and anything to do with Washington right now," "They need to not be so closely tied to an administration that has so many negatives associated with them," "It's aligning Apple too closely with an unpopular president that I take issue," it reads that Apple shouldn't do anything that Obama wants simply because he is unpopular. I don't see anything objective that considers the benefits of the SupplierPay initiative for businesses.
Edited by SolipsismX - 7/11/14 at 11:30am

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post #52 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Really?  I'd say it gives an impression that Apple are engaged and willing to sacrifice their own margins to support the broader market.  That's responsibility, not weakness.
If this is good for the broader market businesses shouldn't need a government law or White House summit to implement it. The optics of this to me is Apple taking orders from the Obama administration. IMO those aren't good optics.

Probably ought to lobby to fire Cook, because he sure as hell doesn't give a damn about optics.

post #53 of 98
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
It reads that Apple shouldn't do anything that Obama wants simply because he is unpopular.

 

I will agree with this sentence after clarifying that the emphasis I am using to agree with it is placed on the word ‘anything’.

 

Apple should not do ANYTHING that Obama wants–meaning a jump/how high situation–but not not do anything he wants–rejecting off hand everything put forth to them.

 

Hey, Spam.You’re still reading the thread; chime in here. :lol: 

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #54 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I will agree with this sentence after clarifying that the emphasis I am using to agree with it is placed on the word ‘anything’.

Apple should not do ANYTHING that Obama wants–meaning a jump/how high situation–but not not do anything he wants–rejecting off hand everything put forth to them.

Hey, Spam.You’re still reading the thread; chime in here. lol.gif

Isn't the end result a complete shutout? If one is unpopular and you should ignore them because they are unpopular don't they then become more unpopular? How can one correct their unpopularity if even good things are to be ignored?

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post #55 of 98
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
If one is unpopular and you should ignore them because they are unpopular…

 

If that were the case, but it’s what has made them unpopular that renders them unheeded.

Originally Posted by helia

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post #56 of 98
I have to reluctantly agree with this idea.
post #57 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley

Why not? Markets can be wrong, markets can be self-destructive and markets can fail. So can government and regulation of course, neither are perfect.

Markets fail when the government and GSE's manipulate them (e.g. housing bubble, savings-n-loan, great depression, etc.) Free markets "fail" when they're replaced by innovation, aka creative destruction (e.g. VHS, cassette tape, walkman, etc.)

Read Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt (for free).

Edit: Properly quoted Crowley.
Edited by mises - 7/14/14 at 5:12pm
post #58 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

I will agree with this sentence after clarifying that the emphasis I am using to agree with it is placed on the word ‘anything’.

 

Apple should not do ANYTHING that Obama wants–meaning a jump/how high situation–but not not do anything he wants–rejecting off hand everything put forth to them.

 

Hey, Spam.You’re still reading the thread; chime in here. :lol: 

 

Sorry, I just got back.  :lol:

 

I personally see no reason for Apple to adopt this program. What does Apple get out of the deal? Although largely symbolic, it is unnecessary and it appears to be mere sucking up to Washington. As someone else stated, if it was a good idea Apple would've done it already!

 

Apple "contributes" to the economy as a follow-on effect to them being successful and they have become successful by focusing like a laser on customers and making great products. How does this puppet-show created by Washington improve Apple's products or customer satisfaction?

 

Apple isn't responsible for the state of economy. Washington messed it up (along with the Federal Reserve) and this is more of Washington's feckless response to a country that is still withering from idiotic decision making and laws that have harmed US competitiveness.

 

Most companies use net 30 and unless Apple is getting additional tax credits for voluntarily reducing their available funds (and it does not matter how much Apple has in the bank), they should not do a damn thing.


Edited by SpamSandwich - 7/11/14 at 12:53pm

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post #59 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

If that were the case, but it’s what has made them unpopular that renders them unheeded.


Obama isn't really that unpopular. He earned 51% of the vote in the last election and his approval rating is down to 43% recently. Not great, but under the circumstances, certainly understandable. He has accomplished some pretty significant goals. For one, he got us out of the recession, that he inherited, passed Health Care Reform, killed Osama Bin Laden, ended US involvement in Iraq, among some other positive things. I'd still like to see gun control and immigration reform though.

 

Personally I believe no other Democrat could have done a better job than Obama given the continuous external crises and the relentless obstacles to passage of legislation imposed by Republicans. 

 

In my opinion, the NSA's standard operating procedures were none of his doing as that was establish by the previous administration, nor do I care about the current collapse of the middle east. We should never have been there in the first place. It is a tragedy that so many people have died in those conflicts but it is certainly not Obama's fault because he didn't get us into those conflicts, he is getting us out. I'm tired of the US having to police the world.

 

I would prefer we had our own missile defense shield and totally impenetrable borders. If some country or rouge citizens of the world attack our property or citizens then I'm all for using precision bombing, missiles, etc., but we shouldn't commit ground troops to invade anywhere, especially not to protect the citizens of some other country. Sorry Japan, sorry Korea, sorry Taiwan, sorry Israel, sorry Europe, sorry Africa. No more foreign financial or military aid. If we are going to protect any other region it should be limited to North America.

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post #60 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 


Obama isn't really that unpopular. He earned 51% of the vote in the last election and his approval rating is down to 43% recently. Not great, but under the circumstances, certainly understandable. He has accomplished some pretty significant goals. For one, he got us out of the recession, that he inherited, passed Health Care Reform, killed Osama Bin Laden, ended US involvement in Iraq, among some other positive things. I'd still like to see gun control and immigration reform though.

 

Personally I believe no other Democrat could have done a better job than Obama given the continuous external crises and the relentless obstacles to passage of legislation imposed by Republicans. 

 

In my opinion, the NSA's standard operating procedures were none of his doing as that was establish by the previous administration, nor do I care about the current collapse of the middle east. We should never have been there in the first place. It is a tragedy that so many people have died in those conflicts but it is certainly not Obama's fault because he didn't get us into those conflicts, he is getting us out. I'm tired of the US having to police the world.

 

I would prefer we had our own missile defense shield and totally impenetrable borders. If some country or rouge citizens of the world attack our property or citizens then I'm all for using precision bombing, missiles, etc., but we shouldn't commit ground troops to invade anywhere, especially not to protect the citizens of some other country. Sorry Japan, sorry Korea, sorry Taiwan, sorry Israel, sorry Europe, sorry Africa. No more foreign financial or military aid. If we are going to protect any other region it should be limited to North America.

 

First and foremost, US presidents are not elected by the popular vote, they are elected by the Electoral College.

 

Second, we're not out of the recession/depression. If QE (quantitative easing was stopped today and interest rates increased, the economy would implode again...which it should, by the way).

 

Third, Obama and Democrats were completely unopposed during the first part of his term and they managed to ram through the ACA with no Republican involvement. It's bad for the country and very bad that the Federal government is now involved in something that should be deregulated instead and completely opened up to let the wonders of competition squeeze out inefficiencies.

 

Fourth, the NSA operates with the oversight of Congress. Don't believe for a second that what has been going on is the result of a rogue agency.

 

Fifth, I completely agree that US foreign policy is a major contributor to the instability of other countries and has undermined any and all notions of freedom and fairness. Foreign aid should be stopped and our troops should be called back home everywhere.


Edited by SpamSandwich - 7/11/14 at 1:18pm

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post #61 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post



In my opinion, the NSA's standard operating procedures were none of his doing as that was establish by the previous administration

A bit simplistic. It would be impossible to deny that under Obama the NSA's reach has been expanded and the military given legal cover for powers they never had prior to Obama.
http://www.alternet.org/story/155045/how_obama_became_a_civil_libertarian's_nightmare

Anyway, not trying to incite more political discussion. Back to the topic.
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post #62 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


A bit simplistic. It would be impossible to deny that under Obama the NSA's reach has been expanded and the military given legal cover for powers they never had prior to Obama.
http://www.alternet.org/story/155045/how_obama_became_a_civil_libertarian's_nightmare

Anyway, not trying to incite more political discussion. Back to the topic.

 

We're like the Hogwart's Express... off the rails and headed into a ravine, so I don't think additional diversions are going to harm the conversation at this point. :lol:

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post #63 of 98
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
He earned 51% of the vote in the last election and his approval rating is down to 43% recently.

 

Hmm…

 
For one, he got us out of the recession, that he inherited, passed Health Care Reform, killed Osama Bin Laden, ended US involvement in Iraq, among some other positive things.

 

Oh, dear. Oh, dear.

 

the relentless obstacles to passage of legislation

 

That’s called “the laws that founded the government.” Winning an election ≠ you get 100% of what you want all the time, unquestioningly. That you are able to vote but cannot comprehend this is terrifying. It’s sort of the entire idea behind our government.

 

In my opinion, the NSA's standard operating procedures were none of his doing as that was establish by the previous administration

 

Let’s establish a few things. These procedures are not standard, first of all. But are they bad? If so, why has he not moved to revoke them? Why does it matter who put them in place when the only person capable of removing them does nothing to do so?

 
…nor do I care about the current collapse of the middle east.

 

Hey, me neither. Let them fight a war with each other for a change.

 
I'm tired of the US having to police the world.

 

The premier military power on the planet inherently has a duty to its interests, allies, and domestic beliefs to do so.

 
I would prefer we had our own missile defense shield and totally impenetrable borders.
 

 

We can have that AND projection of power. Have you seen what they’re doing with lasers these days? We’re pretty close to actually having the Star Wars program that Reagan tricked the commies into thinking we had. 

 
…we shouldn’t commit ground troops to invade anywhere…

 

Here’s something I don’t understand. We’ve used aircraft in war since WWI. We’ve used artillery in war since the same.

 

So… why do we not level wherever we’re invading with bombing runs, fighter runs, and artillery bombardment before we have an American soldier within 20 miles of the coast?! How difficult can this be? It’s not physically impossible or even improbable. Why do we need humans there first?

 
North America.

 

I’m for the peaceful annexation thereof, but that’s me.

Originally Posted by helia

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post #64 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Apple is a valuable brand, the best brand name in the world.

 

The Obama brand is one of the worst and most unpopular names in the US currently, and Apple should not be tarnishing their good name by associating with it. 

& of course. #3 WAAAAAAAAAAAAA! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

post #65 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Nope. If it's a good idea companies should just do it. No need for a meeting or a summit which is basically just a photo op for the White House.

In that world we would only be able to read bibles, and, ironically, watch porn.

Seriously, though, we also wouldn't have seat belts or a single auto recall, non-propriety network protocols, or even train track rails that are a consistent width apart.

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post #66 of 98
@Splif, that isn't civil discourse.

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post #67 of 98
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post
In that world we would only be able to read bibles, and, ironically, watch porn. Seriously, though, we also wouldn't have seat belts or a single auto recall, non-propriety network protocols, or even train track rails that are a consistent width apart.

 

Seems to me that you’re willfully ignoring all of history when you say this.

Originally Posted by helia

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post #68 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

@Splif, that isn't civil discourse.

Okay? Are you just very selective on what is civi discourse? I have read plenty of remarks on this site that were far worse than mine & had no response like this given to them. How come certain people on this site have to make everything about politics? Apple signed up.

post #69 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

the relentless obstacles to passage of legislation

 

That’s called “the laws that founded the government.” Winning an election ≠ you get 100% of what you want all the time, unquestioningly. That you are able to vote but cannot comprehend this is terrifying. It’s sort of the entire idea behind our government.

The entire idea of government is to create an environment that benefits the citizens. When the Republicans filibuster in order to block good legislation, even bills that they themselves sponsored just so Obama will not get any credit for helping to pass a popular law, that is abuse of the laws founding the government, but it is unsurprising that you don't comprehend that.

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post #70 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

Okay? Are you just very selective on what is civi discourse? I have read plenty of remarks on this site that were far worse than mine & had no response like this given to them. How come certain people on this site have to make everything about politics? Apple signed up.

Mentioning politics, especially when the article has the name Obama in the title, isn't bad in and of itself. I don't agree with several of the positions taken by posters here but they aren't attacking a forum poster. Your comments are attacks on the person. If you had said, 'Your position is so nutty you just triggered my peanut allergy," it would be fine.

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post #71 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

 

Great. He's 'less hated than Bush'... LOL.

Well, when the alternative narrative is that he's "the most hated since the end of WW2" then a different, less hysterical view can be useful.  The Gallup approval polls actually show that even at his worst points, Obama's pollings have been above the respective worst of Bush 2.0, Bush 1.0, Carter, Nixon, Truman, Ford, Reagan... hell actually every President since WW2 except Kennedy and Eisenhower!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_approval_rating#Historical_comparison

 

Now that's not a ringing endorsement, his approval average is tracking lower than a few more, but it adds a bit of context more than a single poll that comes hot off the heels of a bad few months of press that is inevitably going to bias the results.

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post #72 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Mentioning politics, especially when the article has the name Obama in the title, isn't bad in and of itself. I don't agree with several of the positions taken by posters here but they aren't attacking a forum poster. Your comments are attacks on the person. If you had said, 'Your position is so nutty you just triggered my peanut allergy," it would be fine.

That would've been far more clever and amusing. I tip my hat to you, Soli. 🎩

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post #73 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Well, when the alternative narrative is that he's "the most hated since the end of WW2" then a different, less hysterical view can be useful.  The Gallup approval polls actually show that even at his worst points, Obama's pollings have been above the respective worst of Bush 2.0, Bush 1.0, Carter, Nixon, Truman, Ford, Reagan... hell actually every President since WW2 except Kennedy and Eisenhower!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_approval_rating#Historical_comparison

Now that's not a ringing endorsement, his approval average is tracking lower than a few more, but it adds a bit of context more than a single poll that comes hot off the heels of a bad few months of press that is inevitably going to bias the results.

If a president intends to violate and ignore the Constitution, they may as well be likable, eh?

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post #74 of 98

Seemed to work out ok for Lincoln.

 

By which I don't mean to compare Obama to Lincoln, but I'm saying that relatively minor infractions or successes won't dominate his legacy as President if he manages to settle them by the end of his term.  They might make him out to be a monster in some current "who is the worst president ever" polls, but those kind of polls are fleeting and silly in the grand scheme of things.  

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post #75 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 


Obama isn't really that unpopular. He earned 51% of the vote in the last election ...

First and foremost, US presidents are not elected by the popular vote, they are elected by the Electoral College.

 

Okay then if you want to go with the Electoral College then he won with 61%.

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post #76 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
He earned 51% of the vote in the last election and his approval rating is down to 43% recently.

 

Hmm…

The problem with polls like that is that people are far more familiar with recent events and tend to forget about the past presidents, especially 18-24 year olds because they were too young to remember very many past presidents. If you look at the actual numbers, Obama and Bush are within a couple points of each other and ranked worst and second worst. You might notice there is a lot of disparity between men and women in the polls. The women seem to give him a much higher rating.

 

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2056

 

Carter, Ford, and Truman technically have a less favorable ratings than Obama and we don't really know what his rating will be when he finally leaves office. It could actually improve a few points if things get better with the economy and foreign affairs.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #77 of 98
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
but it is unsurprising that you dont comprehend that.

 

Nice try. No.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #78 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Seemed to work out ok for Lincoln.

 

By which I don't mean to compare Obama to Lincoln, but I'm saying that relatively minor infractions or successes won't dominate his legacy as President if he manages to settle them by the end of his term.  They might make him out to be a monster in some current "who is the worst president ever" polls, but those kind of polls are fleeting and silly in the grand scheme of things.  

 

I guess that we'll have to check back on this thread in 50 years from now, because I truly believe that he will go down as one of the most ineffective and worst presidents ever. Most transparent admin ever, indeed. The amount of corruption and lawlessness is off the charts.

post #79 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

I guess that we'll have to check back on this thread in 50 years from now, because I truly believe that he will go down as one of the most ineffective and worst presidents ever. Most transparent admin ever, indeed. The amount of corruption and lawlessness is off the charts.

This is the first comment you've made where I agree with every word.....110%

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #80 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post
 

This is the first comment you've made where I agree with every word.....110%

 

Do you mean the first political comment that I've made where you agree with every word? If so, then thanks.:smokey:

 

I hope that you've agreed with at least some of my strictly Apple posts before.:lol:

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