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Apple shoots down Chinese state media accusations targeting iOS privacy, location tracking

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Apple's website in China has published a detailed response to accusations by the country's state owned media, refuting claims that iOS tracks users' locations in a firm but politely worded statement.

Frequent Locations iOS 7


A posting titled "Your Location Privacy," presented in both Chinese and English on Apple's Chinese website, states "Apple is deeply committed to protecting the privacy of all our customers. Privacy is built into our products and services from the earliest stages of design. We work tirelessly to deliver the most secure hardware and software in the world."

Alluding the advertising-supported nature of Google's Android, Apple's statement continued, "unlike many companies, our business does not depend on collecting large amounts of personal data about our customers."

Instead, Apple wrote, "we are strongly committed to giving our customers clear and transparent notice, choice and control over their information, and we believe our products do this in a simple and elegant way."

Chinese propaganda targeted Apple over location tracking "concerns"



On Friday, China's state run China Central Television network published a report referring to iOS' Frequent Location feature as being a national security concern that might reveal sensitive information, "even state secrets," according to coverage of the issue by the Wall Street Journal.

The same CCTV network directed a similar populist attack on Apple last year regarding the company's warranty policies, alleging that it was "biased against Chinese consumers in its warranty and consumer service policies."

Apple's chief executive responded with a public statement noting that a lack of public communication could lead to "misunderstandings," for which he offered Apple's "sincere apologies."

The statement clarified Apple's policies, noting that "nearly 90% of customers expressed satisfaction with our repair services, and consumer satisfaction is the most important criterion for Apple to measure its own success."

Apple details its privacy policies



Regarding the new allegations targeting privacy and the Frequent Locations feature in particular (depicted below), the company stated, "we appreciate CCTV's effort to help educate customers on a topic we think is very important. We want to make sure all of our customers in China are clear about what we do and we don't do when it comes to privacy and your personal data.""Apple does not track users' locations - Apple has never done so and has no plans to ever do so." - Apple

It continued, "our customers want and expect their mobile devices to be able to quickly and reliably determine their current locations for specific activities such as shopping, travel, finding the nearest restaurant or calculating the amount of time it takes them to get to work. We do this at the device level. Apple does not track users' locations - Apple has never done so and has no plans to ever do so.

"Calculating a phone's location using just GPS satellite data can take several minutes. iPhone can reduce this time to just a few seconds by using pre-stored WLAN hotspot and cell tower location data in combination with information about which hotspots and cell towers are currently being received by the iPhone. In order to accomplish this goal, Apple maintains a secure crowd-sourced database containing known locations of cell towers and WLAN hotspots that Apple collects from millions of Apple devices. It's important to point out that during this collection process, an Apple device does not transmit any data that is uniquely associated with the device or the customer.

Frequent Locations iOS 7


"Apple gives customers control over collection and use of location data on all our devices. Customers have to make the choice to enable Location Services, it is not a default setting. Apple does not allow any app to receive device location information without first receiving the user's explicit consent through a simple pop-up alert."Frequent Locations are only stored on a customer's iOS device, they are not backed up on iTunes or iCloud, and are encrypted"

This alert is mandatory and cannot be overridden. Customers may change their mind and opt-out of Location Services for individual apps or services at any time by using simple 'On/Off' switches. When a user turns 'Off' location data for an app or service, it stops collecting the data. Parents can also use Restrictions to prevent access by their children to Location Services.

"When it comes to using iPhone for traffic conditions, iOS can capture Frequent Locations to provide commute information in the Today view of Notification Center and to show you automatic routing for iOS in CarPlay.

Frequent Locations are only stored on a customer's iOS device, they are not backed up on iTunes or iCloud, and are encrypted. Apple does not obtain or know a user's Frequent Locations and this feature can always be turned 'Off' via our privacy settings."Apple has never worked with any government agency from any country to create a backdoor in any of our products or services"

"Apple does not have access to Frequent Locations or the location cache on any user's iPhone at any time. We encrypt the cache by the user's passcode and it is protected from access by any app. In the interest of even greater transparency for our customers, if a user enters their passcode successfully, they are able to see the data collected on their device. Once the device is locked no one is able to view that information without entering the passcode.

"As we have stated before, Apple has never worked with any government agency from any country to create a backdoor in any of our products or services. We have also never allowed access to our servers. And we never will. It's something we feel very strongly about."

Apple "caught in the crossfire" in American / Chinese privacy squabble



Reporting on the subject, CNET wrote, "It's possible, though not confirmed, that this CCTV report was retaliation for American officials on Thursday saying Chinese hackers broke into US computer networks that house the personal information of federal employees. China often responds to US accusations of cyberspying by taking aim at American tech companies. Apple, Cisco, Google, IBM, and Microsoft are just a few of the tech companies to get caught in the crossfire."

Apple has been extremely cautious in handling the Chinese market, which is already as important of a market for the company's products as the United States. Unlike the U.S. however, China continues to report tremendous new growth in device sales.

Umeng China iPhone


Data from Umeng, China's largest analysts firm, indicated that the vast majority of premium smartphones in China are iPhones. "The market for budget Android phones is strong in China with 57 percent of devices under the $330 price range," the firm reported in March. "However, over a quarter are using high end smartphones costing over $500; 80 percent of these are iPhones."
post #2 of 47
I think this is more about China setting the stage for favoring its domestic companies like Xiaomi.

Also worried for Apple that Chinese law won’t favor Apple in trade and intellectual property disputes either. China, like some other Asian countries thrives on IP theft and dissuading citizens from buying American products with scare tactics.
post #3 of 47

It's obviously not realistic or possible to fully accomplish just yet, but hopefully Apple has a longterm plan and a vision for eventually shifting production away from China. Bring on the robots! Millions of them! Forget about the Chinese clowns in that laughable government and their shitty state controlled propaganda tv. What a joke. 

post #4 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbolander View Post

I think this is more about China setting the stage for favoring its domestic companies like Xiaomi.

Also worried for Apple that Chinese law won’t favor Apple in trade and intellectual property disputes either. China, like some other Asian countries thrives on IP theft and dissuading citizens from buying American products with scare tactics.

I totally wouldn't doubt a word you said. I would add as conjecture that I see this also as a way for China government to hide behind that perhaps they want to limit the amount of iPhones due to their stellar privacy and not because of it's modest opt-in/out nature. Perhaps they've tried to hack I phones for "privacy issues" and haven't been successful either. I have no doubt if iOS was as vulnerable to hacking as Android and Windows mobile, they would have said nothing. But this is all speculation on my part. They track data way more than even the NSA does in the US.
post #5 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's obviously not realistic or possible to fully accomplish just yet, but hopefully Apple has a longterm plan and a vision for eventually shifting production away from China. Bring on the robots! Millions of them! Forget about the Chinese clowns in that laughable government and their shitty state controlled propaganda tv. What a joke. 

Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.
However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since that population is of great desire for the further growth of the platform. And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.
post #6 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

It's obviously not realistic or possible to fully accomplish just yet, but hopefully Apple has a longterm plan and a vision for eventually shifting production away from China. Bring on the robots! Millions of them! Forget about the Chinese clowns in that laughable government and their shitty state controlled propaganda tv. What a joke. 

Yeah, that's all fine and good, but this isn't about manufacturing, this is about iOS usage.

 

China isn't just a product supplier, it's also the world's largest market by population. No global consumer electronics company can ignore it's nearly 1.4 billion people. Basically, about one in every five people on this planet is Chinese.

post #7 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpantone View Post
 

Yeah, that's all fine and good, but this isn't about manufacturing, this is about iOS usage.

 

China isn't just a product supplier, it's also the world's largest market by population. No global consumer electronics company can ignore it's nearly 1.4 billion people. Basically, about one in every five people on this planet is Chinese.

 

I never wrote that Apple should ignore the Chinese market.  I just wrote that Apple should think about moving the manufacturing away from China.

post #8 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.
However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since that population is of great desire for the further growth of the platform. And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.

 

Of course there will probably be push back. There's always lame groups that are going to be complaining and whining no matter what Apple does. Eventually you just have to ignore real life trolls, and just go about your business and act as if they are invisible. I also have no problems with slapping China in the face.

 

It's true that China owns a great deal of the US debt, but Apple is not the USA, and Apple doesn't owe anything to China. Apple should be looking after Apple, and Apple is not responsible for any disastrous and stupid decisions made by incompetent US politicians.

post #9 of 47
Quote:
Apple shoots down Chinese state media accusations

take that china ... you just got shot down!

jhc, dilger, what are you, seven years old?
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
Reply
post #10 of 47

The government of the PRC (just like every government) is made of people. People who are ambitious and lazy, nationalistic and multi-cultural, unreasonable and curious. I suspect there is a large amount of cage rattling for the typical political reasons. Just think of all the BS that comes out of Washington, DC. "Government" is not a single person.


Edited by SpamSandwich - 7/12/14 at 5:19pm

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.

China owns 7% of the US debt.  Also, US treasury bond interest rates are currently so low that it wouldn't make much difference if they dumped that: the inflation-adjusted interest rates on 5 year treasuries has been negative since 2011. And most economists think that if China acted in a way that lowered the value of the dollar a bit, that would actually be a net benefit for the US economy, because of increased exports.

post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

take that china ... you just got shot down!

jhc, dilger, what are you, seven years old?

 

Do you have problems understanding and comprehending the English written language?

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using that phrase in the context that it has been used.

 

I don't get why certain people constantly seem to attack some of the people who write for this site. If I had to guess, then I'd say that you are the one who is acting like a seven year old.

post #13 of 47
Apple needs to bring back the I'm a Mac style adds but this time with "I'm an iPhone" pitting themselves directly against google and Samsung. Customers like facts, especially when delivered in a comical way. New actors of course. This time the Apple side should be a woman. Siri maybe lol. Apples latest feel good adds make me queasy...
post #14 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.
However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post

China owns 7% of the US debt.  Also, US treasury bond interest rates are currently so low that it wouldn't make much difference if they dumped that: the inflation-adjusted interest rates on 5 year treasuries has been negative since 2011. And most economists think that if China acted in a way that lowered the value of the dollar a bit, that would actually be a net benefit for the US economy, because of increased exports.

I don't think we're looking at the same figures.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/10/this-surprising-chart-shows-which-countries-own-the-most-u-s-debt/
post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

take that china ... you just got shot down!

jhc, dilger, what are you, seven years old?

shoot someone/something down
• crush someone or their opinions by forceful criticism or argument: she tried to argue and got shot down in flames for her trouble.
Edited by SolipsismX - 7/13/14 at 10:25am

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #16 of 47
the state run media especially the CCTV that targeted Apple two years ago are in a lot of trouble during the recent campaign against corruption. The media just trying to create some controversy to distract the attention.
post #17 of 47
Quote:

According to that article, China owns 25% of Foreign-owned U.S. Debt. It also says that the majority owner of U.S. Debt is us, folks right here in the U.S. who hold treasuries, for example. So, at the time this article was written, if we owned the majority, which would mean over 50%, then China's 25% of the foreign-owned portion could not be more than 12.5% of the total (25% of 50% is 12.5%). If China owns 7%, as NormM suggests, and that 7% represents 25% of the foreign-owned portion, that would imply the the foreign-owned portion represents 28% of the total, meaning the other 72% is Held domestically, which would certainly represent a majority, consistent with what the article claims. Do you have another source that actually refutes what NormM claims? Because the source you provided does not.
I don't care about what the ignorant masses perceive as truth. I'm concerned with the facts on the ground.
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I don't care about what the ignorant masses perceive as truth. I'm concerned with the facts on the ground.
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post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's obviously not realistic or possible to fully accomplish just yet, but hopefully Apple has a longterm plan and a vision for eventually shifting production away from China. Bring on the robots! Millions of them! Forget about the Chinese clowns in that laughable government and their shitty state controlled propaganda tv. What a joke. 

Great point... Robotics... Done in the USA... Could spark a new american revolution and correct trade defecits in our favor.
post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Great point... Robotics... Done in the USA... Could spark a new american revolution and correct trade defecits in our favor.
Actually I think that robotics is a real opportunity for the US to reclaim some manufacturing that is now lost to China. One thing you forgot to take into account was the possible social consequences this might entail. Say the US is a world leader in fabrication by robotics that still wouldn't solve the unemployment issue(s). It might even worsen the issue.
I realize that a rising robotic fabrication industry probably will increase the demand of highly educated employees but the reality is that a lot of people still aren't highly educated.
Anyway, the opportunity certainly is there and I personally think the US should grab it with both hands but we have to keep in mind that it also can have unintended consequences.
post #20 of 47

Settings

Privacy

Location Services

System Services

Frequent Locations


Edited by John.B - 7/12/14 at 8:16pm

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

Reply
post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbolander View Post

I think this is more about China setting the stage for favoring its domestic companies like Xiaomi.

Also worried for Apple that Chinese law won’t favor Apple in trade and intellectual property disputes either. China, like some other Asian countries thrives on IP theft and dissuading citizens from buying American products with scare tactics.

What you just said is exactly why 2011's "meeting of the techies" aka plan b to solve our debt issue (invest in growing economies) was never a good idea fundamentally. Thanks for posting, chips go to Elon Musk.
post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.
However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since that population is of great desire for the further growth of the platform. And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.

No, China doesn't even own a majority of foreign owned
U. S. debt ( at 23%) so that's incorrect.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/worldeconomy/p/What-Is-the-US-Debt-to-China.htm
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

No, China doesn't even own a majority of foreign owned
U. S. debt ( at 23%) so that's incorrect.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/worldeconomy/p/What-Is-the-US-Debt-to-China.htm
NPV= a lot more than 23%. I would give you the benefit of the doubt since it was only 16% last year which only further proves the point. Sure it's a minority now, China did it right and has us under their their thumb pretty shortly.
post #24 of 47

I see many posters here attacking China are either ignorant or selfish.  Do they know all trade news between US and China?  Especially do they know US government especially Congress has repeatedly use national security as excuse to forbid business deals with China?  There are two big examples I remember.  First, Congress has stopped a Chinese company to buy a US oil company with national security as excuse.  Second, Congress has banned Huawei of selling equipment to US using national security as excuse again.  And Huawei has disputed it just like Apple is doing.  I see what CCTV security talk of Apple iPhone is very much a retaliation of the Huawei case.  

post #25 of 47

What exports?

 

US goods are made all over the world and especially in China.

post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.
China owns 7% of the US debt.  Also, US treasury bond interest rates are currently so low that it wouldn't make much difference if they dumped that: the inflation-adjusted interest rates on 5 year treasuries has been negative since 2011. And most economists think that if China acted in a way that lowered the value of the dollar a bit, that would actually be a net benefit for the US economy, because of increased exports.

I think you are confused regarding what moves asset prices: it's buy/sell decisions by the marginal investor, not the average investor. If you know that difference, you'll realize that dumping 7% -- even 1% -- can have a massive price (and hence interest rate) impact.
post #27 of 47
Which CCTV broadcaster made the report? Was it Rui Chenggang? According to the NYT on Friday RuI was detained by authorities in a corruption scandal investigation. Detained at the same time was Li Yong, the CCTV vice director of financial news.
post #28 of 47

China issued a similar concern with Android having @90% market share as being a national security issue.  Much as you may love either Android or Apple, the Chinese government is right.

 

Put the shoe on the other foot.  If 90% of phone users in the US (or Europe, or wherever) used Xiaomi software, and Huawei made a popular phone that they maintained almost complete control of- you betcha the US government would issue a security warning and many people would back them, I sure would.

 

Frequent locations and improve maps can be disabled, but many people won't, or won't even be aware of it.  Like Google, Apple takes all location data and will only provide it anonymously to third parties... But since just about every App and its grandmother requires permission most people at any time have one App or another that is tracking them.  The data is not anonymous to Apple, which can correlate any user to their past and present Apple ID's.

 

Not that Apple doesn't act in good faith and keep users information as safe as it can- but from the Chinese governments perspective that is about as secure as Huawei being entrusted with hundreds of millions of US users' information.

 

Chinese will crack the whip much harder fairly soon citing national security and giving the rapidly growing home team manufacturers a big boost.  

post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.
However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since that population is of great desire for the further growth of the platform. And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.

The truth is hat even with robots, the workforce here would increase substantially for supervision/QA and general things they might not want a robot doing. Hundreds of jobs? Unlikely- more like thousands. That's how they should announce it. Instead of even mentioning robots- just say "bringing manufacturing back stateside creating x thousand jobs" It'd be a win everywhere.

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post #30 of 47
Don't read too much into what the Chinese government says, they were merely responding to US concerns about Lenovo and Huawai.
post #31 of 47
Does anyone else find it ironic that the state media of a totalitarian country worries about 'privacy?'
post #32 of 47
jobs and cook have stated that assembly in china isn't just a matter of cheaper labor. the entire global electronic components industry is there so that's where it makes the most sense to be.
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiepaul View Post

Apple needs to bring back the I'm a Mac style adds but this time with "I'm an iPhone" pitting themselves directly against google and Samsung. Customers like facts, especially when delivered in a comical way. New actors of course. This time the Apple side should be a woman. Siri maybe lol. Apples latest feel good adds make me queasy...

nope. ads like those are only run by the challenger, not the reigning top player.
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Great point... Robotics... Done in the USA... Could spark a new american revolution and correct trade defecits in our favor.

quick, get this written up and sent to the president.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

China issued a similar concern with Android having @90% market share as being a national security issue.  Much as you may love either Android or Apple, the Chinese government is right.

Put the shoe on the other foot.  If 90% of phone users in the US (or Europe, or wherever) used Xiaomi software, and Huawei made a popular phone that they maintained almost complete control of- you betcha the US government would issue a security warning and many people would back them, I sure would.

Frequent locations and improve maps can be disabled, but many people won't, or won't even be aware of it.  Like Google, Apple takes all location data and will only provide it anonymously to third parties... But since just about every App and its grandmother requires permission most people at any time have one App or another that is tracking them.  The data is not anonymous to Apple, which can correlate any user to their past and present Apple ID's.

Not that Apple doesn't act in good faith and keep users information as safe as it can- but from the Chinese governments perspective that is about as secure as Huawei being entrusted with hundreds of millions of US users' information.

Chinese will crack the whip much harder fairly soon citing national security and giving the rapidly growing home team manufacturers a big boost.  

I guess you didn't read their response very closely. you know, like where they said frequent locations isn't stored anywhere on apples servers and csmt be accessed by apps.
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.
However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since that population is of great desire for the further growth of the platform. And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.

1.  China does not own a majority of U.S. debt.  As of July 2011, 19% of U.S. debt was held by the Social Security Trust Fund, 11.3% by the U.S. Treasury, 8% by China, 6.6% by U.S. households, 6.4% by Japan, 3.5% by state and local governments and then it goes down from there.   Basically, we owe most of the debt to ourselves. 

 

2.  The way you solve the political problems of using robots is to not call them robots.   When a factory uses machines to assist workers, no one complains (or even notices).   All of the factories of the American car companies are highly automated.   When we see video of machines doing IC insertion or a machine that dips a circuit board into solder, we don't really think of those machine tools as robots.   But the minute you call them robots or have the machines resemble a human (with recognizable two arms and legs), then everyone gets upset and thinks robots are replacing workers.    

 

While we're never going to return to the days of factories that employ 50,000 or more workers, if Apple were to build highly automated factories in the U.S., it would result in at least some jobs.   Probably just a few hundred per factory, in order to program and maintain the machines, to bring in source material or ship product out, or to perform QC, but that's better than having those jobs in China and other places.  

 

3.  IMO, the most ethical way for large manufacturing companies to work (although not necessarily the most efficient) is to manufacture products close to the markets in which they sell those products, so that people in the regions that buy those products can benefit from the associated jobs. This would also save shipping costs and reduce the associated environmental impacts.   So if Apple were to move some manufacturing to the U.S. or Europe or elsewhere, that wouldn't necessarily mean they would end all manufacturing in China.    They would continue to manufacture in China to serve that market.        

post #37 of 47
Frequent Locations data, I'd be interested to see a user reset their iPhone and then restore from a backup. I wonder if all that frequent location data is lost and finding your way around takes longer.
post #38 of 47
"And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt."

This is simply not true. Americans own the largest share of their own debt, much more than China.

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/who-holds-our-debt/
post #39 of 47
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post
the entire global electronic components industry is there...

 

Well, assembly is there. The chips are made here.

post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post
 
Quote:

According to that article, China owns 25% of Foreign-owned U.S. Debt. 

Try this: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

 

So the debt is currently just under $17.6 trillion.  A recent post from zoetmb breaks down percentages and appears to use about that figure in doing so.  About 30% of the debt is foreign-owned.

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