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With most major companies already using iOS, Piper Jaffray doesn't see IBM deal surging Apple sales - Page 3

post #81 of 119
iOS may be in 98 percent of enterprise companies but it is only a small percentage of the actual number of office computing devices use.

Suppose this deal brings Apple up to 50% of enterprise computing devices used (including PCs). That would be a big-time move. This would mean Apple gets $8 BILLION IN PROFIT a year - since that is part of Microsoft's profit from big business. This means an extra $16 BILLION a year in revenue.

Then once iOS is entrenched as the weapon of choice for the corporate world, Mac OS X is not far behind. Macs can then surge in use in all corporations. This would bring Apple even more income.

IBM stands to profit by having more service contracts and software sales.
post #82 of 119
Look at THIS UGLY STOCK MANIPULATION by VILLAIN !

High Frequency Trader's FICTITIOUS TRANSACTIONS are IN FULL SWING !!!!!!


post #83 of 119
Hmm...Apple stock was up around 1% all day and then at the very end of the trading session there's a big sell off? I swear if Apple announced they sold 100M iPhones in a quarter the stock would still sell off that day. 1rolleyes.gif
post #84 of 119
Looks like a smart move for Apple. I only hope they make sure that the on site repairs provided by IBM will match the service standard Apple is offering to it's customers.
post #85 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

How would like to lug your desktop with you on the road?

 

Of course I use a MBP which is necessary for me to run full desktop class applications.

 

Sure, many people can get by with just an iPad when traveling but how many corporate cubicle workers travel? Seriously I don't know the answer to that but there is absolutely no reason to use an iPad when a full desktop is available and will do a much better job and is more ergonomic to use. People around here seem to think that every employee of every Fortune 500 company including the janitors will be using an iPad now that IBM is selling them. iPhones are great and everyone should have one, and almost everyone already does, but they are crap to actually do any productivity tasks on. iPads are a little better for work but why would you use one if you are in the office? Makes no sense to me. 

 

You need to look at the type of business tools IBM is offering and then ask yourself if that is something that would be easy to do on a mobile device. Corporate use of mobile devices is mostly about calendar, phone, email, messaging and a little browsing. No one is going to be running security analysis, financial planning, manufacturing supply chain, data warehousing, or any complex tasks like the ones offered by IBM Cloud Marketplace. The whole idea is preposterous. 

 

Apple selling more iPads is great, but just like with the Beats deal, I think Apple gave up too much and in this case the crown jewels because in order for IBM to do what is stated in the agreement they will have all the source code and have complete access to the inner working of Apple.

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post #86 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

I really don't understand what is the big deal with iPads in corporate environments. iPhones sure, they are the best phone hands down and everyone needs a good phone, however, you can't really do much work on a phone, but what do corporate employees do with an iPad?

 

People always bring their iPad to meetings, but in the meetings I attend we sometimes use an iPad for FaceTime with a manager from a different office, but that is about it. Usually someone has a Windows laptop with a PowerPoint presentation, and printouts of the slides. Even though people have their iPad, they tend to make notes on the slide printouts. In larger global meetings we have a projector and an AV guy to hook up the presenters laptops, some Macs but mostly Windows.

 

I know traveling sales people can use an iPad for presentations, doctors making rounds and executives use them in the airport, but to be secure you would need to be on cellular and that isn't always very fast, plus it is not the best ergonomic setting to do intensive work. Why would someone with a nice desktop and a comfortable ergonomic workstation want to trade that for a tiny iPad that has to be held or propped up using awkward touch input? It is a mystery to me.

 

I have two iPads which are seldom used except for reading iBooks. I use the iPad when I travel just to browse the web at a cafe, mostly just the news. If I have to do actual work I always prefer a desktop or at least a MBP with a mouse.

 

This has nothing to do with the iPad that you or anyone at your company is bringing with them so they can check email and look at web pages and play games and look at a numbers spread sheet or a Keynote presentation.

 

The iPad is good at those things too, and up to now, that is what most people have been doing with them in the corporate world.  There  are some companies that develop custom software for their business to run, but that gets expensive.

 

This is all about IBMs business software being accessible through the iPad and iPhone.   So instead of taking your big bulky laptop and logging in to your IBM based business system or your custom software or your customized IBM software through your browser, you take your iPad and run the app there (which talks to the big IBM iron out back).  This is a WHOLE NEW use for the iPad.  

 

That is why it is huge.

post #87 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

You need to look at the type of business tools IBM is offering and then ask yourself if that is something that would be easy to do on a mobile device. Corporate use of mobile devices is mostly about calendar, phone, email, messaging and a little browsing. No one is going to be running security analysis, financial planning, manufacturing supply chain, data warehousing, or any complex tasks like the ones offered by IBM Cloud Marketplace. The whole idea is preposterous. 

 

 

Corporate use in many corporations has been calendar, phone, email, messaging, and a little browsing, but in many companies, they run serious apps on their iPads that they custom develop or buy from small time custom business app shops.   This is bringing this to the mainstream enterprise world and legitimizing the whole use of it.  When Tim Cooks says 9x% of the F500 are investigating and using iOS devices, he does not mean for calendaring, email, etc.  He means custom apps those companies develop for internal use.

 

And, Oh yes they are.   There is nothing preposterous about single use iPads that are dedicated to a specific corporate function or job.

post #88 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

... People around here seem to think that every employee of every Fortune 500 company including the janitors will be using an iPad now that IBM is selling them.

Who thinks that? What post number?
post #89 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Hmm...Apple stock was up around 1% all day and then at the very end of the trading session there's a big sell off? I swear if Apple announced they sold 100M iPhones in a quarter the stock would still sell off that day. 1rolleyes.gif

This Friday is monthly OPEX so the sellers buyers want this as close to $95 as possible.

Take advantage of the manipulation. I bought 550 shares at $94.85. If we have strong earnings next week we will test $100
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post #90 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

... People around here seem to think that every employee of every Fortune 500 company including the janitors will be using an iPad now that IBM is selling them.

Who thinks that? What post number?

/e for exaggeration 

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post #91 of 119
If companies and shops can use Apple's iPads together with IBM's teller machines, lets say for stock along or maybe they have a smaller store and want to look more modern then they'll need to buy the iPad's first!
post #92 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I really don't understand what is the big deal with iPads in corporate environments. iPhones sure, they are the best phone hands down and everyone needs a good phone, however, you can't really do much work on a phone, but what do corporate employees do with an iPad?

People always bring their iPad to meetings, but in the meetings I attend we sometimes use an iPad for FaceTime with a manager from a different office, but that is about it. Usually someone has a Windows laptop with a PowerPoint presentation, and printouts of the slides. Even though people have their iPad, they tend to make notes on the slide printouts. In larger global meetings we have a projector and an AV guy to hook up the presenters laptops, some Macs but mostly Windows.

I know traveling sales people can use an iPad for presentations, doctors making rounds and executives use them in the airport, but to be secure you would need to be on cellular and that isn't always very fast, plus it is not the best ergonomic setting to do intensive work. Why would someone with a nice desktop and a comfortable ergonomic workstation want to trade that for a tiny iPad that has to be held or propped up using awkward touch input? It is a mystery to me.

I have two iPads which are seldom used except for reading iBooks. I use the iPad when I travel just to browse the web at a cafe, mostly just the news. If I have to do actual work I always prefer a desktop or at least a MBP with a mouse.

And you really think that IBM and Apple are too stupid to figure out solutions to the tablet's shortcomings that you pointed out? Or come up with new uses that you would never have thought of in your wildest imaginings? What do you call that syndrome wherein people assume just because they can't envision or imagine something then no one else can? Oh yes, analystitis or colloquially, Munster's disease?

Why would someone with a nice desktop prefer to work on a tablet? Well, if someone has to walk down the hall to attend a meeting? Then you can type in the new production targets directly on your tablet to automatically show up on your desktop. Why not a laptop? What if you'll be visiting the plant afterwards and you need to refer to information and input new info as you are walking and talking with the production engineers?

Use your imagination, man! Don't try to graft tablets into current work patterns, try to imagine if more efficient work patterns are attainable with the mobility offered by tablets!
Edited by tundraboy - 7/16/14 at 10:31pm
post #93 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post
 
Use your imagination, man! Don't try to graft tablets into current work patterns, try to imagine if more efficient work patterns are attainable with the mobility offered by tablets!

I would rather see Forstall be CEO than make any deal with IBM. And I dislike Forstall probably more than anyone.

 

IBM is a nobody. They should have to shelp their stuff through the App Store like everybody else.


Edited by mstone - 7/16/14 at 9:30pm

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post #94 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

You are absolutely wrong.

 

This IBM deal could setup a huge movement to electronic payments with TouchID/iBeacons.  IBM does a ton of POS systems for massive companies.  That one aspect alone would move the needle.

I think not only will it let companies expand iOS (and maybe even macs) on the front line it also protects against erosion to Microsoft should they ever get their act together and start pitching enterprises again. 


Edited by Eric Swinson - 7/16/14 at 9:04pm
post #95 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I use the iPad when I travel just to browse the web at a cafe, mostly just the news. If I have to do actual work I always prefer a desktop or at least a MBP with a mouse.

The fact that you have to use a mouse with your MBP to get work done says a lot. Guessing you still have scrolling reversed or refuse to upgrade from Snow Leopard too?

People learn new things and move on. I haven't used my mouse with my Macs since multitouch and gestures. Just because you're stuck on that input device doesn't mean everyone else is.
post #96 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I use the iPad when I travel just to browse the web at a cafe, mostly just the news. If I have to do actual work I always prefer a desktop or at least a MBP with a mouse.

The fact that you have to use a mouse with your MBP to get work done says a lot. Guessing you still have scrolling reversed or refuse to upgrade from Snow Leopard too?

People learn new things and move on. I haven't used my mouse with my Macs since multitouch and gestures. Just because you're stuck on that input device doesn't mean everyone else is.

Great! I see that you don't do anything more advanced than surf the web. I do a lot of graphic design which requires a mouse.

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post #97 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Great! I see that you don't do anything more advanced than surf the web. I do a lot of graphic design which requires a mouse.

LOL. I run my own web/multimedia/design company. I design, code, edit video and audio, as well as surf the web.

We as designers may need more pixel-perfect accuracy than your average office drone, but that certainly doesn't help your labored point or have any relevance in this thread really.

You sound like the art director I deal with who won't get rid of his duct-tape covered trackball.
post #98 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Great! I see that you don't do anything more advanced than surf the web. I do a lot of graphic design which requires a mouse.

LOL. I run my own web/multimedia/design company. I design, code, edit video and audio, as well as surf the web.

We as designers may need more pixel-perfect accuracy than your average office drone, but that certainly doesn't help your labored point or have any relevance in this thread really.

You sound like the art director I deal with who won't get rid of his duct-tape covered trackball.

Whatever dude. You might think you are so cutting edge that you don't need a mouse but I guarantee you would be left in the dust if you tried to compete with us. 

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post #99 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Whatever dude. You might think you are so cutting edge that you don't need a mouse but I guarantee you would be left in the dust if you tried to compete with us. 

This has nothing to do with you. It's funny how wrapped up you are in how this doesn't apply to you or your workflow. Nobody cares, you're
clearly not the target audience for this.
post #100 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Great! I see that you don't do anything more advanced than surf the web. I do a lot of graphic design which requires a mouse.

No intuos tablet?

post #101 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Whatever dude. You might think you are so cutting edge that you don't need a mouse but I guarantee you would be left in the dust if you tried to compete with us. 

This has nothing to do with you. It's funny how wrapped up you are in how this doesn't apply to you or your workflow. Nobody cares, you're
clearly not the target audience for this.

Only a fucking idiot would try to argue that you don't need a mouse to do graphic design. That is if you were defining graphic design as professional artwork composed in Adobe CC. Perhaps you have some other definition. I wouldn't know anything about that.

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post #102 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Great! I see that you don't do anything more advanced than surf the web. I do a lot of graphic design which requires a mouse.

No intuos tablet?

That could work but the discussion started with traveling and MBP.  I have a Wacom in my studio but I don't take it on the road.

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post #103 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

I would rather see Forstall be CEO than make any deal with IBM. And I dislike Forstall probably more than anyone.

 

IBM is a nobody. They should have to shelp their stuff through the App Store like everybody else.

 

Okay, there.  Well, at least we know now that it's some deep seated personal animus against IBM that's driving your side of the discussion.  Can't argue against deep seated personal animus.  Here doth endeth the debate.

post #104 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Only a fucking idiot would try to argue that you don't need a mouse to do graphic design. That is if you were defining graphic design as professional artwork composed in Adobe CC. Perhaps you have some other definition. I wouldn't know anything about that.

Now you definitely sound like trackball director.

You NEED whatever tools get the job done. I see people as old as when I was first learning these things with desktops and mice now working in Maya and FCP and Illustrator in cafés on their MBP's trackpads.

However, this thread has more to do with everyday office workers who do not work in design. They do email and maybe spreadsheets or PowerPoint (shudder) and are potentially about to move a lot of that to an iPad running apple and IBM apps. Without a mouse. Or possibly a keyboard.

Hell, many of my clients can barely manage to communicate clearly or design anything with those tools, so what's the problem?

But what do I know, I'm only a fucking idiot.

Also though, Forstall? Did you see the look on his face for the animated card shredder demo in Passbook? There's a reason he's gone. Apple had gone SO much further with iOS since. Wait, are you Scott?
post #105 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 
Quote:

You NEED whatever tools get the job done. I see people as old as when I was first learning these things with desktops and mice now working in Maya and FCP and Illustrator in cafés on their MBP's trackpads.

No way. The  nodes in Maya and Illustrator are less than a mm and your finger is like 20 mm. How the hell are you going to grab on to a Bezier curve with with a fat finger? Downgrading everything to big giant buttons so a seven year old can touch them without difficulty is not progress.

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post #106 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

No way. The  nodes in Maya and Illustrator are less than a mm and your finger is like 20 mm. How the hell are you going to grab on to a Bezier curve with with a fat finger? Downgrading everything to big giant buttons so a seven year old can touch them without difficulty is not progress.

 

Zoom? I edited a bezier on a trackpad just yesterday. Woo hoo. I'm not sure why you're still going down this rabbit hole. Again, this has nothing to do with designers and their chosen input devices. If I can find my Bamboo pen, maybe I would've used that to edit it. Who cares?

post #107 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 
Zoom? I edited a bezier on a trackpad just yesterday. Woo hoo. I'm not sure why you're still going down this rabbit hole. Again, this has nothing to do with designers and their chosen input devices. If I can find my Bamboo pen, maybe I would've used that to edit it. Who cares?

Lame. There is a reason your designers are working in a cafe. Probably they don't have any real paying jobs. While they are zooming with a track pad to struggle with their beziers, my designers have their own offices, reserved parking, receptionists, paid vacation, health plan, 401K,  30" monitors... all because they use a mouse. Well that and because we've been in business for more than 20 years and have many international clients. And that is only one of our businesses. We also own a cafe, probably where your lame designers hang out using our wifi. Plus a few other businesses such as a coffee farm and a an export company, all of which use a mouse. In addition I am also a vice president at a global medical company which by the way is very mouse centric as well. It is cool that you don't use a mouse but just so you know, it really pays a lot more money when you do.


Edited by mstone - 7/17/14 at 12:30am

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post #108 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Lame. There is a reason your designers are working in a cafe. Probably they don't have any real paying jobs. While they are zooming with a track pad to struggle with their beziers, my designers have their own offices, reserved parking, receptionists, paid vacation, health plan, 401K,  30" monitors... all because they use a mouse. Well that and because we've been in business for more than 20 years and have many international clients. And that is only one of our businesses. We also own a cafe, probably where your lame designers hang out using our wifi. Plus a few other businesses such as a coffee farm and a an export company, all of which use a mouse. It is cool that you don't use a mouse but just so you know, it really pays a lot more money when you do.

 

I am not talking about my designers, I'm talking about seeing people working differently with and/or adapting to new technology. You seem unable to see beyond what you are used to in your own environment. You are still ignoring the fact this article has nothing to do with you or designers' workflow. This is NOT aimed at your workflow. NOT. 

 

I'm happy for your company, it sounds like it's doing very well. Sorry you're so angry about something that does not affect you in any possible way. IBM is not going to come in and make you edit beziers with an iPad. Relax.

post #109 of 119
Forget about the additional hardware sales for a minute. Enterprise Software is expensive! With IBM having 100+ new Enterprise Apps available, and if Apple is taking their customary 30% cut on every copy sold, those numbers could be huge! (I'm not going to do the math - but I'd be very interested in seeing somebody else's calculations on what this number could actually be!)
post #110 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 
You seem unable to see beyond what you are used to in your own environment. 

You seem to forget that you initially attacked me.

"The fact that you have to use a mouse with your MBP to get work done says a lot. Guessing you still have scrolling reversed or refuse to upgrade from Snow Leopard too?" 

 

So just defending my position.

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post #111 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

You seem to forget that you initially attacked me.

"The fact that you have to use a mouse with your MBP to get work done says a lot. Guessing you still have scrolling reversed or refuse to upgrade from Snow Leopard too?" 

 

So just defending my position.

 

My "attack" was just calling you out for my perceived reason you might be trolling this thread so hard despite having no vested interest in any of this. You said early on you don't use your iPad for anything other than reading, then challenged everyone to come up with a legitimate purpose for using an iPad in a business environment, which nobody actually needs to do because millions of people (except you) do it every day. Over and over you discount the usability for the tools and (not yet seen) software in this story based on your own workflow which does not apply. Again, you are not the target audience for this. It doesn't relate directly to you or how you work, so don't feel weird when it sounds strange to you and move on. Don't take it personally.

post #112 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 
You said early on you don't use your iPad for anything other than reading, then challenged everyone to come up with a legitimate purpose for using an iPad in a business environment, which nobody actually needs to do because millions of people (except you) do it every day. 

True enough. I acknowledged that the iPad is a very useful tool for mobile and if you look at Apple's enterprise usage examples they are ALL outdoor mobile applications. My question was why anyone would want to use an iPad in an office environment when a desktop computer was available and more capable. No one wanted to answer that question. Probably because it is stupid to use an iPad instead of a desktop. There may be some specialized circumstance but I believe it would be a rare instance,

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post #113 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

True enough. I acknowledged that the iPad is a very useful tool for mobile and if you look at Apple's enterprise usage examples they are ALL outdoor mobile applications. My question was why anyone would want to use an iPad in an office environment when a desktop computer was available and more capable. No one wanted to answer that question. Probably because it is stupid to use an iPad instead of a desktop. There may be some specialized circumstance but I believe it would be a rare instance,

 

Because the applications you are thinking of do not apply. To paraphrase someone on this or another thread (sorry, don't remember), "you think Apple and IBM are too stupid to think of this?"  Seriously, these guys are playing 3D chess 15 moves ahead and you're still focused on how you work in your own myopic worldview.

 

I am just going to leave this here:

"Don't bet against us," — Tim Cook

 

​My main point is this is likely to help everyone (save BBRY maybe) and don't fucking worry about it.

post #114 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 

 

I am just going to leave this here:

"Don't bet against us," — Tim Cook

 

Sure you are probably right but I don't like the deal and don't like IBM and not too fond of Cook either, I already sold my AAPL a while ago so it is really none of my business, but I am still a little emotionally attached to the old Apple.

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post #115 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Sure you are probably right but I don't like the deal and don't like IBM and not too fond of Cook either, I already sold my AAPL a while ago so it is really none of my business, but I am still a little emotionally attached to the old Apple.

 

I'm attached to both. I started learning design on an SE/30 then color on a IIsi (QuickTime!).

 

What is there not to like? Cook is obviously a fucking pro, and they *just* showed a HUGE renewed fervor for OS X which I cannot be more excited about, and who cares about IBM if you don't work for a company serviced by them? 

 

Reiterating — old Apple was great but nearly dead when I was enjoying my Centris 650 and beige G3 tower, and now we have best in class hardware and a HUGE fucking opportunity to ... wait what are you wanting from the old Apple exactly?

post #116 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

True enough. I acknowledged that the iPad is a very useful tool for mobile and if you look at Apple's enterprise usage examples they are ALL outdoor mobile applications. My question was why anyone would want to use an iPad in an office environment when a desktop computer was available and more capable. No one wanted to answer that question. Probably because it is stupid to use an iPad instead of a desktop. There may be some specialized circumstance but I believe it would be a rare instance,

Who ever said anything about the office? Modern professionals do work on the morning commute, at the airport, and everywhere in between.

Obviously you would use a desktop when it is more convenient, but to say that it will always be convenient and available is nuts. Every argument you give applies to laptops too (they are certainly less capable than desktops), but nobody in their right mind would claim that they aren't useful in business.
post #117 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Sure you are probably right but I don't like the deal and don't like IBM and not too fond of Cook either, I already sold my AAPL a while ago so it is really none of my business, but I am still a little emotionally attached to the old Apple.

 

Hot damn.  You must have lost a ton of money selling your AAPL shares a while ago.

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post #118 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sure you are probably right but I don't like the deal and don't like IBM and not too fond of Cook either, I already sold my AAPL a while ago so it is really none of my business, but I am still a little emotionally attached to the old Apple.

Because you don't understand it, you don't like it.

Cook has done a great job. Not sure why you can't see that. Let me guess: no new product lines?
post #119 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

That could work but the discussion started with traveling and MBP.  I have a Wacom in my studio but I don't take it on the road.

That makes sense. They're annoying to transport, and the cords are easily messed up. I have an old 9x12 intuos3 around with electrical tape wrapped around the usb cable at a couple stress points. It looks really ghetto, but I'll replace it at some point.

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