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Outgoing Apple board member Bill Campbell offers insight into company, Steve Jobs in interview

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Following a Thursday announcement that Bill Campbell would retire as a member of Apple's board of directors, Fortune published an interview in which the Intuit chairman describes his time in Cupertino, relationship with cofounder Steve Jobs and "coach" to silicon valley elite.


Source: InternetNews


In the short feature, Campbell, 73, tells Fortune about his 17-year tenure as Apple's longest-serving board member, a feat equalled only by company cofounders Jobs and Mike Markkula.

A year after returning to Apple in 1996, Jobs offered Campbell -- who also left Apple in the mid-90s -- the position. At the time, Campbell was CEO of Intuit, where he still serves as chairman of the board.

"He came by one day, and we sat on a bench by the pool and he said, 'I'd like you to join the Apple board,'" Campbell said of Jobs. As his neighbor in Palo Alto, Calif., Jobs would often visit Campbell unannounced. "The only time I've had a rush like that was when I was asked to be a trustee of Columbia University. I said, without hesitation, 'For sure.'"

Campbell's relationship with Jobs was close, with some industry analysts referring to the board member as "Steve's guy."

"I watched him emerge as a CEO in real time," Campbell says. "I had a continuum with him. I watched him when he was general manager of the Mac division and when he went off and started NeXT. I watched Steve go from being a creative entrepreneur to a guy who had to run a business."

During the early years as an Apple board member, Campbell began "coaching" up-and-coming tech executives like Amazon's Jeff Bezos, Google's Eric Schmidt and Twitter's Evan Williams, among others. He continues the practice today, but things got heated when Schmidt and Google became Apple's competiton.

"Steve would say, 'If you're helping them you're hurting me.' He would yell at me," Campbell said. "I'd say, 'I can't do HTML, come on. I'm just coaching them on how to run their company better.'"

As for Cook, Campbell refers to the current Apple chief as a "calm, thoughtful guy" who studies a topic before making a decision and moving on. Illustrating this warm nature, Campbell said Cook called on Thursday to ask if he could make a contribution in Campbell's honor. The donation will go somewhere related to Campbell's hometown in Pennsylvania.

"That's the way he thinks," Campbell said. "In his warm way of saying goodbye to me he's going to do something warm for me, make a contribution to my home town."

With Campbell stepping down, Apple has tapped BlackRock cofounder Susan Wagner fill the role, making her the second female board member behind Andrea Jung.
post #2 of 46

Screw the bastard. Bill Campbell is the one who killed off Quicken for the Mac. He’s the one who saw to it that the Mac version of Quicken never reached feature parity with the Windows version. He’s the one who’s arm Steve Jobs twisted to delay Quicken for Mac’s cessation of development. All we’re left with now is a piece of shit called Quicken Essentials and a few other subpar, so-called financial programs for OS X. Good financial software for the Mac simply does not exist.

post #3 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

Screw the bastard. Bill Campbell is the one who killed off Quicken for the Mac. He’s the one who saw to it that the Mac version of Quicken never reached feature parity with the Windows version. He’s the one who’s arm Steve Jobs twisted to delay Quicken for Mac’s cessation of development. All we’re left with now is a piece of shit called Quicken Essentials and a few other subpar, so-called financial programs for OS X. Good financial software for the Mac simply does not exist.

I'm sure Campbell did some good things for the company. I never have seen someone get so worked up over Quicken, though. Hilarious.

post #4 of 46
I met Bill Campbell at an Apple-sponsored party in December 1985 while I was still in college. I still have his business card from those days. Probably the most successful career change from being an unsuccessful college football coach in history (Columbia lost 4 years in a row). Mac users might be mad about Quicken over the years, but I doubt Steve Jobs would have been the leader he was in his second act with Bill Campbell as a sounding board.
post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

Screw the bastard. Bill Campbell is the one who killed off Quicken for the Mac. He’s the one who saw to it that the Mac version of Quicken never reached feature parity with the Windows version. He’s the one who’s arm Steve Jobs twisted to delay Quicken for Mac’s cessation of development. All we’re left with now is a piece of shit called Quicken Essentials and a few other subpar, so-called financial programs for OS X. Good financial software for the Mac simply does not exist.

 

Why not just use Quicken 2007 if you don't like Quicken Essentials?

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post #6 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post
 

Why not just use Quicken 2007 if you don't like Quicken Essentials?

 

I've always thought that the best solution to not being able to find the Mac version of any software to be Bootcamp and Windows.

 

Ironically, I've never had to fall back on it.

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post #7 of 46

Quicken was a dead end product, just like MS Money.  That is why they bought Mint and offers other SaaS's.

post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

All we’re left with now is a piece of shit called Quicken Essentials and a few other subpar, so-called financial programs for OS X. Good financial software for the Mac simply does not exist.

I gave up looking for Mac financial software; I use Quicken 2013 with Wine. It works pretty well.

 

At some point, I might stop using Quicken and rely on Mint.com (which I've been using before Intuit's acquisition), but not until Mint.com's investment tracking features work better. For daily cash flow/transaction stuff, Mint.com is awesome.


Edited by mpantone - 7/17/14 at 6:21pm
post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post
 

Quicken was a dead end product, just like MS Money.  That is why they bought Mint and offers other SaaS's.

 

Yes, but after the NSA revelations, people are more wary about putting their accounting and tax data into the cloud.

 

A full-featured Quicken for Mac would be doing well right now.

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post #10 of 46

The data is already online: banks, credit card issuers, brokerages, lenders.

 

Online services like Mint.com, Yodlee, etc. just aggregate the data. Heck, my brokerage firm offers the same service too.

 

Anyhow, a full-featured Quicken for Mac is never going to happen.

post #11 of 46

I've been a Quicken/Quickbooks user since the 1990's.  The only reason I run Windows on my mac (via VMware) is because of two of there three programs belong to Intuit. 

I've been disappointed with Intuit's Mac offerings.  They were beyond pathetic.  I briefly tried Quicken for the Mac and I found it horrible.  It's like they didn't even bother making even a decent effort to match the Windows version.

I don't see Intuit changing their ways with it.  They will remain a Windows-dominant vendor, and that's too bad.

The other program I use is a development package by IBM, and even then they came out with a Mac version last year, while not 100% the features of Windows, is pretty darn close.  At least IBM made an effort.

Either way, I see myself using Windows for these apps for the very long foreseeable future.

I'm glad he's gone.  Bring in some fresh blood.

post #12 of 46

Well he had something that Jobs deemed valuable. Nothing wrong with loyalty... I guess we'll all have to overlook the Quickbooks/Quicken fiasco. Maybe he brought gifts in other areas to bear.

 

I agree with others on the new blood requirement. 17 years is too long. That was definitely a reach around from Jobs.

post #13 of 46
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

I agree with others on the new blood requirement. 17 years is too long.

 

Yep, that’s right; kick out anyone after 15 or so years, regardless of if they’re still pounding out great ideas or not¡

 

“But he wasn’t...”

 

Not the point being made.

post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post

I'm sure Campbell did some good things for the company. I never have seen someone get so worked up over Quicken, though. Hilarious.

I'll second it... Glad to see an intuit rep booted from the board. Quicken and quickbooks for mac were great years ago.... Many years ago.... Intuit should be ashamed of mac releases of the last ten years. Their current relases are a joke. Unfortunately, I'm still looking for a suitable replacement.
post #15 of 46
Finally, this disgusting parasite of a human being is gone!! Good riddance to this disgusting man who has done more to hurt the Mac platform than almost any other man in existence. The man who has always allowed his company Intuit to treat all Mac users like second-class citizens, which still continues to this day. The man who has never lifted a finger of good for the Mac platform. The man who allowed his company to drop all support for Quicken for the Mac, then drop all support for QuickBooks for the Mac, then reluctantly bring back QuickBooks after many years, but still never brought back Quicken and still keeps QuickBooks paralyzed with 99% less features than the Windows versions of QuickBooks. The man who allowed his company to never develop any other accounting products for the Mac. The man who made everyone in the entire tech industry doubt that the Mac was a viable business machine. Why Steve Jobs was EVER friends with this pathetic human being is beyond me. Good riddance.
post #16 of 46

I don't think his reaction is unreasonable at all. For the entire time he was on Apple's board, Campbell refused to create a version of his company's core product - Quicken - that was anywhere near feature parity on a Mac with the Windows version of the product. In fact, for well over a year after Apple no longer supported running non-Intel-optimized applications on it's then-current OS, Quicken didn't run at all with that OS. Those of us who depended upon Quicken to manage our financial lives were forced to remain on an older OS and refrain from upgrading our computers (which generally wouldn't work with anything older than the then-current OS) in order to keep the application working. All of this more than four years after Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel processors. When they finally fixed this, it was with a crappy patch to a piece of software that was at the time more than five years old, and it took another year after that for the patched version to become stable on the Mac.

 

Many Mac users (myself included) have been confounded by the utter contempt that Intuit has exhibited towards us for years, and all the more so by the fact that Bill Campbell, Intuit's Chairman, is on Apple's board. Why nobody at Apple ever managed to get him to make a commitment to supporting the company's computers with his software is beyond me, but I, for one, am glad to see him go. It won't change the fact that Quicken on a Mac is still a POS, but at least my blood won't boil when I see him reelected to the board every year!

post #17 of 46
I can certainly understand why some folks would get worked up over Quicken for Mac, but the flip side is that revenue generated funds software projects and the volume of product sold simply matched the investment. That's the cold, hard truth of software development. Apple is unique in that their software investments drive hardware sales. Most ISV's business model only allows them to invest resources where it will generate the most profits and thus returns for shareholders. Any CEO or Chairperson would operate in this manner regardless of what boards they served on. That said, I still limp along with Quicken 2007 on my old MBP running Snow Leopard...
post #18 of 46
Find it strange that everybody is talking about the outgoing guy and no one about the incoming person.
she is a founder of a management and investment group. Nothing to do with tech but everything with the new direction apple is taking. It seems to be another sign that Cook is turning apple into a fully fledged corporation. With all the right ties to businesses, investment and corporate world (IBM deal and now this). I don't see that as bad, but there are dangers in it. Apple is too big to be a company, and needs to become a corporation. The danger is that they take the corporation mentality (Microsoft, HP, Samsung, and others outside tech). If Cook manages to keep the right balance between innovation, swiftness, focus and product care and design with business, investors etc then he might have a new type of company under his tenure. But I don't envy him.
Part of black rock in the board might be due to people like Icahn being investors and in general the global reach apple has achieved in the last years, as well as the expansions in markets like china.
post #19 of 46

Yeah, I worry about some of that corporate lethargy as well. But as long as Apple continues to do things they don't have to (think Sapphire glass and free OS updates), I remain confident in their direction. If they start cutting corners to save costs, that's an Apple I'm not familiar with. I would sell my half share immediately and write my congressman post haste if, say, the 2015 MBP had a plastic case.

 

The wrong CEO could do a lot of damage.

post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by codog24 View Post
 

I don't think his reaction is unreasonable at all. For the entire time he was on Apple's board, Campbell refused to create a version of his company's core product - Quicken - that was anywhere near feature parity on a Mac with the Windows version of the product. In fact, for well over a year after Apple no longer supported running non-Intel-optimized applications on it's then-current OS, Quicken didn't run at all with that OS. Those of us who depended upon Quicken to manage our financial lives were forced to remain on an older OS and refrain from upgrading our computers (which generally wouldn't work with anything older than the then-current OS) in order to keep the application working. All of this more than four years after Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel processors. When they finally fixed this, it was with a crappy patch to a piece of software that was at the time more than five years old, and it took another year after that for the patched version to become stable on the Mac.

 

Many Mac users (myself included) have been confounded by the utter contempt that Intuit has exhibited towards us for years, and all the more so by the fact that Bill Campbell, Intuit's Chairman, is on Apple's board. Why nobody at Apple ever managed to get him to make a commitment to supporting the company's computers with his software is beyond me, but I, for one, am glad to see him go. It won't change the fact that Quicken on a Mac is still a POS, but at least my blood won't boil when I see him reelected to the board every year!

 

Okay so your upset that one program that is important to you isn't as good as the Windows version but whatever the reason for Quicken not being properly developed for OSX, there are still ways to run the Windows version on a Mac as stated by a few people already. It's silly to get so upset over such a trivial problem when there are so many suitable solutions available to you. There are many programs that currently only run on Window's that I would like to see for OSX but instead of getting upset about it I adapt and over come. Either use Wine, Virtual-Box or buy a cheap Windows device, the Dell Venue 8 Pro costs 230 dollars (don't forget the stylus, it's worth it), just connect it to your monitor, sync your bluetooth mouse and keyboard, install Quicken and go to work. Don't ever want to see the Dell, then just turn it on, shove it in a drawer and use a remote desktop to connect to it through your Mac.

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post #21 of 46
Wow. AI pulled my comment about the bad syntax in this article. But they didn't correct the bad sentence.
I guess they don't mind rants about people in the news and the comments readers post, but are a little too sensitive about being criticized themselves.
The tune of our times: selective freedom of speech.
(At least you got to read this before it too got pulled.)
post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred1 View Post

Wow. AI pulled my comment about the bad syntax in this article. But they didn't correct the bad sentence.
I guess they don't mind rants about people in the news and the comments readers post, but are a little too sensitive about being criticized themselves.
The tune of our times: selective freedom of speech.
(At least you got to read this before it too got pulled.)

People complaining about grammar and spelling just add noise to the thread. Your complaint was about:

"Fortune published an interview in which the Intuit chairman describes his time in Cupertino, relationship with cofounder Steve Jobs and "coach" to silicon valley elite"

I gather you'd have been happy with:

"Fortune published an interview in which the Intuit chairman describes his time in Cupertino, relationship with cofounder Steve Jobs and role as "coach" to silicon valley elite"

The abbreviated sentence should be meaningful when expanded out like:

his time in Cupertino
his relationship with cofounder Steve Jobs
his role as "coach" to silicon valley elite

The original would have read "his "coach" to silicon valley elite" but you can see what the sentence means. Maybe articles should have a suggestions button for these kind of corrections but snarky remarks about the competency of the staff in the thread over such minor mistakes aren't necessary.
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by codog24 View Post

I don't think his reaction is unreasonable at all. For the entire time he was on Apple's board, Campbell refused to create a version of his company's core product - Quicken - that was anywhere near feature parity on a Mac with the Windows version of the product. In fact, for well over a year after Apple no longer supported running non-Intel-optimized applications on it's then-current OS, Quicken didn't run at all with that OS. Those of us who depended upon Quicken to manage our financial lives were forced to remain on an older OS and refrain from upgrading our computers (which generally wouldn't work with anything older than the then-current OS) in order to keep the application working. All of this more than four years after Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel processors. When they finally fixed this, it was with a crappy patch to a piece of software that was at the time more than five years old, and it took another year after that for the patched version to become stable on the Mac.


Many Mac users (myself included) have been confounded by the utter contempt that Intuit has exhibited towards us for years, and all the more so by the fact that Bill Campbell, Intuit's Chairman, is on Apple's board. Why nobody at Apple ever managed to get him to make a commitment to supporting the company's computers with his software is beyond me, but I, for one, am glad to see him go. It won't change the fact that Quicken on a Mac is still a POS, but at least my blood won't boil when I see him reelected to the board every year!

You do realize that the BOD is not involved in the day-to-day management of the company. As chairman of Intuit, Campbell could not directly cause Intuit to implement Mac software. Rather, he could recommend to the board and to the CEO that they consider implementing Mac software.

Before making such a recommendation, Campbell would have studied the issue to assure that it was a viable opportunity for Intuit -- more likely, he would have recommended to the CEO that they investigate the opportunity.

Acting as Chairman of the Intuit BOD, Campbell's responsibility is to Intuit and its shareholders -- not to Apple.

So, we do not know if Campbell:
  • tried and was rejected
  • tried and a viable business case could not be made
  • never tried at all


I met the "coach" on two occasions, a dinner for top Apple dealers (business/social), and business-only.

The second involved a joint project between Apple and my company. It was rather a dicey meeting because the project was being terminated for causes not related to the viability of the project, itself.

I found Bill to be fair and reasonable! While not happy about the results, I was satisfied that they were the best for all involved.
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post #24 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

People complaining about grammar and spelling just add noise to the thread. Your complaint was about:

"Fortune published an interview in which the Intuit chairman describes his time in Cupertino, relationship with cofounder Steve Jobs and "coach" to silicon valley elite"

I gather you'd have been happy with:

"Fortune published an interview in which the Intuit chairman describes his time in Cupertino, relationship with cofounder Steve Jobs and role as "coach" to silicon valley elite"

The abbreviated sentence should be meaningful when expanded out like:

his time in Cupertino
his relationship with cofounder Steve Jobs
his role as "coach" to silicon valley elite

The original would have read "his "coach" to silicon valley elite" but you can see what the sentence means. Maybe articles should have a suggestions button for these kind of corrections but snarky remarks about the competency of the staff in the thread over such minor mistakes aren't necessary.

Well, at least you have a good grasp of English grammar and syntax.

What you missed, though, is that the "snarky remark" was only because they pulled my original comment.

Now about your criticism of my attitude towards this . . .
post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolo View Post

Find it strange that everybody is talking about the outgoing guy and no one about the incoming person.
she is a founder of a management and investment group. Nothing to do with tech but everything with the new direction apple is taking. It seems to be another sign that Cook is turning apple into a fully fledged corporation. With all the right ties to businesses, investment and corporate world (IBM deal and now this). I don't see that as bad, but there are dangers in it. Apple is too big to be a company, and needs to become a corporation. The danger is that they take the corporation mentality (Microsoft, HP, Samsung, and others outside tech). If Cook manages to keep the right balance between innovation, swiftness, focus and product care and design with business, investors etc then he might have a new type of company under his tenure. But I don't envy him.
Part of black rock in the board might be due to people like Icahn being investors and in general the global reach apple has achieved in the last years, as well as the expansions in markets like china.

A very insightful and savvy post!

Tim is educated as an engineer and in management. He has corporate experience working for IBM, IE, Compaq and Apple.

Steve built Apple2 into a finely-tuned engine running on all cylinders -- his best creation is Apple2, itself -- the people and vision that make it work.

Tim has the opportunity to use Apple2 as raw material for an even greater vision -- the responsible and successful organization of the future.

I believe he is up to the job -- and that in 5 years we'll say: "sure, it's obvious -- all organizations should be like that!"

Apple3 -- is being created before our eyes ... We need to watch, learn and act ...
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post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred1 View Post

What you missed, though, is that the "snarky remark" was only because they pulled my original comment.

I removed the original comment. That's the one I was describing as snarky as you suggested AI needs a new editor. We know the proof-reading is not as good as it could be, the point has been raised many times but taking jabs at the authors every time it happens doesn't make the problem stop, it just adds off-topic comments to a thread. The authors can be contacted directly if there are important corrections to be made:

http://appleinsider.com/contact/
post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I removed the original comment. That's the one I was describing as snarky as you suggested AI needs a new editor. We know the proof-reading is not as good as it could be, the point has been raised many times but taking jabs at the authors every time it happens doesn't make the problem stop, it just adds off-topic comments to a thread. The authors can be contacted directly if there are important corrections to be made:

http://appleinsider.com/contact/

I do apologize if I offended anyone.  That was not my intention.  I see now that my words were much more harsh than they should have been.  Please forgive me.  

My motivation, though, was due to the fact that I appreciate the news about Apple products and the company that you provide and the opportunity to comment and read the comments of others and I think it's a shame that sometimes articles are posted that contain grammatical or syntactical errors.  I know very well that AI is not the only site with this problem, and I know as well that there is a lot of pressure to post news as quickly as possible.  I just think that these errors detract from the overall image of the site.

 

Again, though, I regret any offense that my remarks gave.  

post #28 of 46

I'd be curious to know what accounting software Apple uses for their own company, and on which operating system.

post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

I'd be curious to know what accounting software Apple uses for their own company, and on which operating system.

We first went to Apple Bandley 1 in June 1978 -- as we drove up 2 guys left by a side door and went the building next door ...

They each were carrying an IBM Disk Pack (cartridge) -- I mentioned to my wife that these were what we used on the maimframes at the IBM Palo Alto Systems Center (where I worked for IBM, at the time).

So, I assume, that even back then they were running on an IBM 1130 Mini (1130 OS?) or an IBM/360 (360 DOS) -- and, likely, wrote their own apps with RPG, COBoL, etc.
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post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

 

Okay so your upset that one program that is important to you isn't as good as the Windows version but whatever the reason for Quicken not being properly developed for OSX, there are still ways to run the Windows version on a Mac as stated by a few people already. It's silly to get so upset over such a trivial problem when there are so many suitable solutions available to you. There are many programs that currently only run on Window's that I would like to see for OSX but instead of getting upset about it I adapt and over come. Either use Wine, Virtual-Box or buy a cheap Windows device, the Dell Venue 8 Pro costs 230 dollars (don't forget the stylus, it's worth it), just connect it to your monitor, sync your bluetooth mouse and keyboard, install Quicken and go to work. Don't ever want to see the Dell, then just turn it on, shove it in a drawer and use a remote desktop to connect to it through your Mac.

 

Attitudes like this are why Mac users can't have nice things.

 

The correct answer is that Quicken doesn't exist on OS X, and to try one of the Mac alternatives.

 

Telling a Mac user to use Windows is just wrong. It's just enabling companies like Intuit to ignore the Mac market.

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post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Attitudes like this are why Mac users can't have nice things.

The correct answer is that Quicken doesn't exist on OS X, and to try one of the Mac alternatives.

Telling a Mac user to use Windows is just wrong. It's just enabling companies like Intuit to ignore the Mac market.

Relic will always recommend non-Apple products. In this instance, the software isn't available on the Mac so there's little choice. It's much the same with games. If you want a good gaming experience with low prices and software availability, Windows is still the best option.

Web-based accounting makes things a lot easier though as there's no platform issues and no need to install software on a machine to see or update accounts. Putting some of the data online is risky, especially if the servers of the company you rely on go down when you have a filing deadline. They also hold your data to ransom, many won't let you do full offline backups because they don't like the idea of someone migrating it to a competing product.

I actually think it would be good if someone made an offline product that worked as a server. Intuit makes $4b per year so there's enough of a demand for another big player to get involved e.g Microsoft. For all their faults, at least Microsoft commits to making Mac products with close to feature parity with the Windows versions and more importantly, file compatibility.

Macs are easy to setup as servers, they can have a database and you'd setup a product on a single machine. Everyone else in the office would be able to logon to the machine locally, even from Windows machines or tablets/smartphones. For outside access, the data can be synced to a cloud service or it can work over VPN.

The only way to force Intuit's hand is to compete with them. The accounting market isn't huge in unit volume vs the consumer market but when it's expanded to include personal accounting, it can apply to most adults. Microsoft can tie it in with Excel and they can simply call it Microsoft Accounts. If Microsoft got into this market, they'd wipe Intuit out. An extra $4b doesn't do much to their $78b per year but it helps.
post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Relic will always recommend non-Apple products. 

 

Well yes and no, if you noticed I only bring up other products when their being discussed, even then it's mostly in the click bait stories where every single person has a contest to see how many negative adjectives they can spew out on the subject. I'm just trying to bring a little balance to the conversation by stating not every thing none Apple sucks. I'm also a mega gadget freak and will, have never just used one single company for my needs. It's how I stay sharp and up to date on every OS, hardware and software that looks interesting and I can get my hands on. Stating that I will always recommend non-Apple products is simply not correct, I think everyone should own a MacBook and iPad but that also doesn't mean that I think other products aren't at least decent. In the case of Quicken, using a cheap machine, Wine or a virtual machine with Windows is a perfectly acceptable solution. I happen to know Wine works very well with Quicken for Windows on OSX, Intuit will probably one day have a better version but until then either use the solutions I provided or another product. Complaining about it is just silly and counter productive, especially wishing someone who has given part of his life to a company for so long such ill will because of a  single program, well, there just isn't any words for that type of behavior.

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post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Well yes and no, if you noticed I only bring up other products when their being discussed

Someone else says that too. Here's an example:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/158200/review-apples-new-11-inch-macbook-air-mid-2013/40#post_2351422

Someone just mentions that the Macbook Air has the best battery life of any computer and you take issue with that mentioning non-Apple products with better battery life, except you mention a product with a custom 9-cell battery. You go far out of your way to make sure Apple is not seen as the best at anything. You say things like the iPad is good but the Surface Pro 3 is better because it's a full computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I'm just trying to bring a little balance to the conversation by stating not every thing none Apple sucks.

An Apple forum doesn't need balance, there's a reason it's an Apple forum. Platform neutral sites like Engadget, Reddit, The Verge, Cnet need balance. It's also in your own mind that people here think everything that isn't made by Apple sucks. The preference is towards Apple products and not supporting their competitors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Stating that I will always recommend non-Apple products is simply not correct, I think everyone should own a MacBook and iPad

Then it makes your recommendations of alternatives irrelevant because the vast majority of people simply don't buy multiple computers, tablets or phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Complaining about it is just silly and counter productive, especially wishing someone who has given part of his life to a company for so long such ill will because of a single program, well, there just isn't any words for that type of behavior.

He was a board member, they only have about 15-20 meetings a year and they get paid pretty well for that service:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/02/28/apples-board-of-directors-receives-230k-in-restricted-stock-units

Quarter of a million dollars (or more depending on what they sell the stock for) for essentially a week's work is worth signing on for. Not that this amount of money is significant to these people but being a board member is hardly a significant contribution of time. The criticism of the products from Intuit is justified. Bill Campbell was Intuit's CEO at one point and as chairman, he still has significant influence over the company. To be a board member at Apple and have such influence with a leading company selling accounting products and not support the Mac platform properly deserves criticism as well as his support of Google.
post #34 of 46
I can't help feeling that had Bill spent more time focusing on his own company rather than coaching others, perhaps after all these years the Mac version could have been on par or even better than PC version. In all the years I have worked with Macs the biggest complaint from PC switchers (and I say this anecdotally as I have never used any product from Intuit personally) has been that Quicken and QuickBooks suck on the Mac compared to their PC versions. That was often the only complaint! As a board member at Apple this is mind blowing to me and beyond comprehension.
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
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post #35 of 46
"Anyhow, a full-featured Quicken for Mac is never going to happen."

Actually, Intuit has been developing a new version of Quicken for Mac for the past year. They're building on the more modern Quicken Essentials code base, and adding the functionality from the legacy Quicken for Mac products (like handling investments). The first release of the new Quicken will probably occur this quarter, with additional free updates in subsequent quarters as they continue to add functionality.
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

 

So then what do you ask of me, it seems that I tarnished the board with my none conforming ways. Would you like me to finally move on after 12 years of being a member here. I do admit that I bring up none Apple products more then I should, it's just the attitude of this board has changed so much over the last few years. Going from excited about Apple products in general to a superiority complex of we're now the best, join us or die. Maybe  it's time to take a break from posting in top news stories. I'll start hanging out in the help and technical sections as I can probably be of more use down there.

 

Oh I know, I start my own little corner, called Relic's Take, a social commentary. I like writing, look for it in AppleOutsider, coming soon.


Edited by Relic - 7/19/14 at 6:59am
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

So then what do you ask of me, it seems that I tarnished the board with my none conforming ways. Would you like me to finally move on after 12 years of being a member here. I do admit that I bring up none Apple products more then I should, it's just the attitude of this board has changed so much over the last few years. Going from excited about Apple products in general to a superiority complex of we're now the best, join us or die. Maybe it's time to take a break from posting in top news stories. I'll start hanging out in the help and technical sections as I can probably be of more use down there.

Oh I know, I start my own little corner, called Relic's Take, a social commentary. I like writing, look for it in AppleOutsider, coming soon.

I don't really see the attitude of superiority you're describing nor that the forum has changed much over the years. As I've described before, a forum like this is like in sports where the team here has blue shirts and the other team, typically members of other forums, has green. If someone in the green shirt wanders over to the blue team's part of the stadium and starts talking about the merits of the other team, how do you expect them to react? Maybe at times the blue team will suggest their team is the best but it's because they are supporters, that's the nature of the game. There may be times when criticism is warranted but doing it perpetually just serves to annoy people.

There's no need to move somewhere else at all, just be more respectful towards other forum members in accepting that they are not looking for constant alternatives to their preferences. People aren't deluded into thinking Apple is the best where it's not warranted, they choose to support Apple. If the discussion skews too much towards what some people call neutral territory, threads just end up getting derailed into promoting Android or Windows or something that most people on an Apple forum don't really care about.

It's important to have the right motive if you want to get something out of being a member of the forum too. If the motive is to drive discussion into promoting alternative products or companies then there's nothing to be gained being a member because people who sign up to a forum about one company aren't undecided voters so they aren't likely to casually switch sides. That doesn't mean 'join us or die', it just means people have their preference and people need to be respectful of it.
post #38 of 46
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Oh I know, I start my own little corner, called Relic's Take, a social commentary.

 

Relic’s Quary, maybe? Though that brings up thoughts of dusty, forgotten things.

 

Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
As I've described before, a forum like this is like in sports where the team here has blue shirts and the other team, typically members of other forums, has green. If someone in the green shirt wanders over to the blue team's part of the stadium and starts talking about the merits of the other team, how do you expect them to react? Maybe at times the blue team will suggest their team is the best but it's because they are supporters, that's the nature of the game. There may be times when criticism is warranted but doing it perpetually just serves to annoy people.

 

Relevant:

 

I’m with Jerry; I’ve never understood this (in sports). For the few people there about which I care at all (not many, not much), I follow them, not the team. I don’t care where I live or whatever.

 

Here, though, I totally get it. Though I was booing him when he was on my team and cheering now that he’s off. ;)

post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsince84 View Post

"Anyhow, a full-featured Quicken for Mac is never going to happen."

Actually, Intuit has been developing a new version of Quicken for Mac for the past year. They're building on the more modern Quicken Essentials code base, and adding the functionality from the legacy Quicken for Mac products (like handling investments). The first release of the new Quicken will probably occur this quarter, with additional free updates in subsequent quarters as they continue to add functionality.

 

Is there any actual confirmation of this?

 

Quicken Essentials for Mac was introduced in February 2010. We're about to enter August of 2014.

 

They couldn't add features - which they had already designed and coded -  into another product in less than three and a half years?

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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I don't really see the attitude of superiority you're describing nor that the forum has changed much over the years. As I've described before, a forum like this is like in sports where the team here has blue shirts and the other team, typically members of other forums, has green. If someone in the green shirt wanders over to the blue team's part of the stadium and starts talking about the merits of the other team, how do you expect them to react? Maybe at times the blue team will suggest their team is the best but it's because they are supporters, that's the nature of the game. There may be times when criticism is warranted but doing it perpetually just serves to annoy people.

There's no need to move somewhere else at all, just be more respectful towards other forum members in accepting that they are not looking for constant alternatives to their preferences. People aren't deluded into thinking Apple is the best where it's not warranted, they choose to support Apple. If the discussion skews too much towards what some people call neutral territory, threads just end up getting derailed into promoting Android or Windows or something that most people on an Apple forum don't really care about.

It's important to have the right motive if you want to get something out of being a member of the forum too. If the motive is to drive discussion into promoting alternative products or companies then there's nothing to be gained being a member because people who sign up to a forum about one company aren't undecided voters so they aren't likely to casually switch sides. That doesn't mean 'join us or die', it just means people have their preference and people need to be respectful of it.

Okay, everything you said makes sense, I'm sorry. Still going to start my own corner though, hhmmmm Relic's Attic, nooo, Relic's Box, oh hell no, Relic's Delusions ..........................

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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