or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple's e-wallet could debut as soon as this fall, possibly with 'iPhone 6'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple's e-wallet could debut as soon as this fall, possibly with 'iPhone 6'

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
A report on Wednesday claims Apple is accelerating work on a mobile payments system, or digital wallet, that could be ready by this fall, allowing customers to pay for physical goods with their iPhone instead of a credit card or cash.



Citing sources familiar with the matter, The Information reports Apple is in talks with partner companies to launch a Google Wallet competitor as soon as this fall, with some saying the service may roll out with the so-called "iPhone 6."

The people said Apple is in talks with major credit card company Visa to forge a partnership that could revolutionize the way consumers pay for goods. As noted by the publication, a direct partnership with Visa -- or similar company -- would be a huge step in bypassing the payment processing chain, saving both merchants and customers money.

With partnership talks ongoing, Apple is also working out the technology behind a mobile payments system. Sources say the Cupertino, Calif. company at one point planned to integrate near field communication modules in its iPhone lineup, though another person claims the system is to rely on Bluetooth and Wi-Fi.

In either case, sensitive customer information would likely be stored in an iPhone's secure enclave, or alternatively in the cloud. Apple has illustrated similar arrangements in numerous patents, one of which describes a Bluetooth/Wi-Fi solution in great detail.

Jibing with today's report, the patent notes credit card information would be stored in the cloud, akin to the method in which users refill or charge to an iTunes account.

Apple has long been rumored to be mulling an entry into the so-called "e-wallet" sector, though the company has taken a "go slow" approach. Competitor Google has charged head-first into mobile payments, integrating its NFC-based Google Wallet solution into the Android mobile operating system, while Apple has slowly rolled out additional functionality in its Passbook app.

Most recently, Apple debuted iTunes Pass, which allows customers to recharge their iTunes accounts via Passbook by taking an iOS device into any participating Apple Store. Theoretically, if the scan-to-recharge system is broadened to include major retailers, customers would be able to refill their e-wallet while checking out at a store like Target or Walmart. With Touch ID integrated into the mix, mobile payments would be secure, easy to use and, perhaps most importantly, transparent to the end user.
post #2 of 39
Quote:
Apple is in talks with partner companies to launch a Google Wallet competitor as soon as this fall, with some saying the service may roll out with the so-called "iPhone 6."

And not a moment too soon. Pretty much all of the pieces are in place for an Apple disruption of mobile purchase (and retail in general). Touch ID authentication and Touch ID API in iOS 8, Secure Enclave on-device encrypted storage, hundreds of millions of iTunes accounts with credit card numbers, Passbook for virtual vendor loyalty cards, iBeacon for in-store navigation and notifications, and EasyPay for zero-wait purchase and checkout (as used in 428 Apple Stores around the world). And who knows what else is in the works.

Oh, and as for Google Wallet, I've never actually seen anybody using it. I see plenty of people using Passbook, and use Passbook frequently myself. At Starbucks, AMC theaters, CVS, AT&T Park, etc. So far only Starbucks allows for purchases though. But that can and will change.
Edited by SockRolid - 7/23/14 at 2:31pm

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #3 of 39
"...saving both merchants and customers money." Heard that one before.
post #4 of 39

I just don't believe it's going to happen unfortunately.

 

As far as I can see, the only way putting payment into a phone would work, would be if the phone companies could all agree on a standard, so that one "receiver" at the merchant could handle all phones.  It's not going to work if the merchant has to have one device for people with Apple phones, another for people with Android phones, another for people with Windows phones etc. as well as the existing one for cards.

 

Much though I'd love to be able to get rid of my wallet and go entirely electronic, I just can't see it happening.

post #5 of 39
I'm just ready for the day where all I need when I leave the house is my phone. I'm tired of keys and wallets. We're almost there.
post #6 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
 

I just don't believe it's going to happen unfortunately.

 

As far as I can see, the only way putting payment into a phone would work, would be if the phone companies could all agree on a standard, so that one "receiver" at the merchant could handle all phones.  It's not going to work if the merchant has to have one device for people with Apple phones, another for people with Android phones, another for people with Windows phones etc. as well as the existing one for cards.

 

Much though I'd love to be able to get rid of my wallet and go entirely electronic, I just can't see it happening.

 

If apple has a deal with Visa, it wouldn't make sense to accept anyone else until they came up with their own deals. Visa can give you a 'card number' for your phone so its kind of like having an iTunes credit card, except instead of swiping it, it connects to your phone (they had Blink tech a few years back that all you needed to do was tap your card). Companies can still accept regular cards for android users, no one is going exclusive to this, plus you don't need to convince every merchant, you need to convince the banks who do their merchant services to just have this on their terminals

post #7 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

I'm just ready for the day where all I need when I leave the house is my phone. I'm tired of keys and wallets. We're almost there.

I hear you, J. Me too.

 

Hard to believe phones used to be attached to your house! :)

 

Best.

post #8 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by justp1ayin View Post
 

 

If apple has a deal with Visa, it wouldn't make sense to accept anyone else until they came up with their own deals. Visa can give you a 'card number' for your phone so its kind of like having an iTunes credit card, except instead of swiping it, it connects to your phone (they had Blink tech a few years back that all you needed to do was tap your card). Companies can still accept regular cards for android users, no one is going exclusive to this, plus you don't need to convince every merchant, you need to convince the banks who do their merchant services to just have this on their terminals

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but I just think it's going to put off a huge number of merchants.  Why would they roll out new Visa machines, for the benefit of only people with Apple phones?  If there's not enough take-up at the merchants, whatever is on the phone is pretty much useless.

 

It's not dissimilar to passbook really.  While I love it for getting into the baseball, it's pretty crappy because NHL don't support it (at least the Sharks don't), and Southwest airlines don't etc.

 

A payment/ticketing system needs to be pretty ubiquitous for it to be a real benefit to consumers.

post #9 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
 

I just don't believe it's going to happen unfortunately.

 

As far as I can see, the only way putting payment into a phone would work, would be if the phone companies could all agree on a standard, so that one "receiver" at the merchant could handle all phones.  It's not going to work if the merchant has to have one device for people with Apple phones, another for people with Android phones, another for people with Windows phones etc. as well as the existing one for cards.

 

Much though I'd love to be able to get rid of my wallet and go entirely electronic, I just can't see it happening.

 

Well, we're not exactly "putting payments into a phone".... this won't need to involve the phone companies at all (any more than you making an online purchase from Amazon involves your phone company). No, this is simply about providing a secure interface/communication protocol and an interface to it. These already exist as standards. How do you think many disparate companies and cards can all be processed through a single payment terminal?

 

If, for example, a secure bluetooth connection were made to that same terminal, using a "standardized protocol" (developed as a standard that all bluetooth enabled handsets could use), then the "problem" you outlined above doesn't exist. And that's exactly how payments transactions in general are approached. Through applied standards and protocols.

 

Again, there are already standards in place. All that needs to happen is for a device to interface with them (by whatever method: whether by swiping a card, displaying a scannable barcode, or transmitting verified & secure data over the air).

 

Look at the "Square" scanner. Nothing different there really, plugin a magnetic card swipe into the phone, and voila, you can take credit cards... an interface between a handset and the wider 'transaction network' is established.

 

If it's a bluetooth/wifi protocol, all the better, so long as it can be made super secure...

 

Once the over-the-air standard takes hold, the rest is easy... and based on what I've seen already implemented in places like Singapore and Tokyo, very likely to be arriving sooner than you think.

post #10 of 39
Originally Posted by justp1ayin View Post
 

If apple has a deal with Visa, it wouldn't make sense to accept anyone else until they came up with their own deals. Visa can give you a 'card number' for your phone so its kind of like having an iTunes credit card, except instead of swiping it, it connects to your phone (they had Blink tech a few years back that all you needed to do was tap your card). Companies can still accept regular cards for android users, no one is going exclusive to this, plus you don't need to convince every merchant, you need to convince the banks who do their merchant services to just have this on their terminals

 

Exactly.  Apple wouldn't necessarily need to handle the transactions themselves through iTunes.  And if the Visa system is open, any device manufacturer (Apple, Samsung, LG, whoever) could use it.  NFC, Bluetooth, whatever.  Pick the best solution.  So what's in it for Apple?  How does an open system and a non-exclusive deal with Visa do anything at all for Apple?

 

Apple already has a vastly superior security system.  iPhone 5S and iOS 7 are already there and they are very tightly integrated.  iOS 8 will take that even further with its Touch ID API for developers.  Apple can and will leverage all of that to make iPhone "6" and/or future iPhones and other devices (iPad and maybe "iWatch") the only serious mobile payment ecosystem out there.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #11 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
 

 

Exactly.  Apple wouldn't necessarily need to handle the transactions themselves through iTunes.  And if the Visa system is open, any device manufacturer (Apple, Samsung, LG, whoever) could use it.  NFC, Bluetooth, whatever.  Pick the best solution.  So what's in it for Apple?  How does an open system and a non-exclusive deal with Visa do anything at all for Apple?

 

Apple already has a vastly superior security system.  iPhone 5S and iOS 7 are already there and they are very tightly integrated.  iOS 8 will take that even further with its Touch ID API for developers.  Apple can and will leverage all of that to make iPhone "6" and/or future iPhones and other devices (iPad and maybe "iWatch") the only serious mobile payment ecosystem out there.

 

Well lets talk about whats in it for Visa... all the apple fanboys (like myself) will love to pay with this feature, and the more we do it, the more other people notice and want to do it. Sooo instead of you having to decide "american express or visa" you say "iPhone" and Visa makes the money. Will every merchant upgrade? Not yet...Ive walked into restaurants that are cash only... would it be smart to accept? Of course, data has shown iPhone users spend more on average than other users for purchases (just like CC users compared to cash)

 

So i bring this up because if Visa has this much to gain from it, Apple could leverage that into 'exclusive' deals so Visa won't go to Samsung (or Visa can enter into exclusive deals with Apple so Apple doesn't go to MasterCard) 

post #12 of 39

Hum. Seems like a job for iTime/iWatch.

 

Show me this will not coast me extra per transaction. I see plenty of merchants, notably gas stations, resorting to the old trick of quoting a credit price that is higher than cash/debit.

 

I can actually see AAPL becoming a debit card/ financial services company. Good money in that. Skip offering credit; make it all ubitquitous debit payments. 

post #13 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
 

I just don't believe it's going to happen unfortunately.

 

As far as I can see, the only way putting payment into a phone would work, would be if the phone companies could all agree on a standard, so that one "receiver" at the merchant could handle all phones.  It's not going to work if the merchant has to have one device for people with Apple phones, another for people with Android phones, another for people with Windows phones etc. as well as the existing one for cards.

 

Much though I'd love to be able to get rid of my wallet and go entirely electronic, I just can't see it happening.

 

Exactly. I was envisioning an iBeacon device (Apple's been rumored to be making a small iBeacon device recently) that Apple could give for free to every retailer, which connects to a merchant iTunes account. Of course, it would require that little liquor store on the corner be high-tech enough to enable all this wireless technology; a lot of these stores have to scurry to the back to run your credit card, since they're not smart enough to realize that phone lines can be run past the desk in the back storage room. 

post #14 of 39

An "iWallet" wouldn't be a Google Wallet competitor. There would be no competition.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #15 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
 

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but I just think it's going to put off a huge number of merchants.  Why would they roll out new Visa machines, for the benefit of only people with Apple phones?  If there's not enough take-up at the merchants, whatever is on the phone is pretty much useless.

 

I would think the point of the e-wallet in your iPhone is to eliminate the need for a specialized merchant device, just software and an internet connection.

post #16 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

I'm just ready for the day where all I need when I leave the house is my phone. I'm tired of keys and wallets. We're almost there.
I hear you, J. Me too.

Hard to believe phones used to be attached to your house! 1smile.gif

What's more, everyone used to the same ring tone. 1cool.gif
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
Reply
post #17 of 39
I just received two free high end cameras and I still have enough credit card points for a free trip overseas. Apple will have to try hard to get my business.
post #18 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


And not a moment too soon. Pretty much all of the pieces are in place for an Apple disruption of mobile purchase (and retail in general). Touch ID authentication and Touch ID API in iOS 8, Secure Enclave on-device encrypted storage, hundreds of millions of iTunes accounts with credit card numbers, Passbook for virtual vendor loyalty cards, iBeacon for in-store navigation and notifications, and EasyPay for zero-wait purchase and checkout (as used in 428 Apple Stores around the world). And who knows what else is in the works.

Oh, and as for Google Wallet, I've never actually seen anybody using it. I see plenty of people using Passbook, and use Passbook frequently myself. At Starbucks, AMC theaters, CVS, AT&T Park, etc. So far only Starbucks allows for purchases though. But that can and will change.

 

I have a Nexus 5, the official Google phone, and Google wallet isn't even available for me to download, and never has been. Should tell you something about what a clusterfuck of a product it is. 

post #19 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by toysandme View Post

I just received two free high end cameras and I still have enough credit card points for a free trip overseas. Apple will have to try hard to get my business.

Purchases could still be linked to that point earning credit card. Apple would just act as another gateway processing the transaction between the merchant and the credit card. In that scenario Apple takes the place of things like authorize.net or paypal
post #20 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

I'm just ready for the day where all I need when I leave the house is my phone. I'm tired of keys and wallets. We're almost there.
Better have phenomenal battery life and 100‰ coverage everywhere.
post #21 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I have a Nexus 5, the official Google phone, and Google wallet isn't even available for me to download, and never has been. Should tell you something about what a clusterfuck of a product it is. 
I have Google wallet on my nexus 5,you may have a carrier limitation. I'm on T-Mobile.
post #22 of 39
i'd be careful about reading too much into the whole "deal with Visa" bit. It might not be a one stop wallet gig at all but rather just working out the deers needed to have a passbook card version of your credit cards. Once the card is available and merchants and Visa have the terms worked out then places might start talking such a card in place of a physical one. Add to this things like Starbucks, Apple etc where you can already pay with a 'local' card and there is your wallet

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #23 of 39
Visa is not the most userfriendly company, but I'd use Mastercard as it is backed and owned by banks.
post #24 of 39

This is great news, I also hope Apple does finally add NFC support. I'm not sure how it is in the US but in Switzerland almost 90% of all vending machines now except Google Wallet. The rail system, kiosks, Migros, Coop, Lidl, etc. also support payment through phones. Though Apple is a little late to the game here I have no doubt that they'll catch up quickly.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #25 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

I have Google wallet on my nexus 5,you may have a carrier limitation. I'm on T-Mobile.
I think that was kind of his point.
..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
Reply
..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
Reply
post #26 of 39
Let users verify payments by fingerprint ID and it'll be a blockbuster success...!
post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by toysandme View Post

I just received two free high end cameras and I still have enough credit card points for a free trip overseas. Apple will have to try hard to get my business.

No one cares.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
 

 

I have a Nexus 5, the official Google phone, and Google wallet isn't even available for me to download, and never has been. Should tell you something about what a clusterfuck of a product it is. 

Are you in the US? Because the whole point of Host Card Emulation introduced in Kitkat (for which the Nexus 5 is the marquee device) is to run around the restrictions imposed by carriers that are trying to push their own ISIS payment solution (http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/10/31/326619/google-gets-around-carriers-host-card-emulation-nfc-payments/).

post #29 of 39
Pretty clueless discussion. Visa and MasterCard are pushing chip and pin technology already in use in Europe. If Apple is going to do anything they will imbed the "chip" into their devices and work with Visa to tie it into their systems. The credit card companies have been resisting chip and pin for a decade now due to the cost of replacing all the POS systems and credit cards. It's foolish to think Apple is going to change that particular landscape with the iPhone. It would be tantamount to Apple rolling out the iPhone and announcing it works on a new radio frequency that will have to be physically added onto all the towers of any carrier who sells the iPhone. Doesn't matter how great the iPhone was, that would have killed it.
post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


What's more, everyone used to the same ring tone. 1cool.gif

 

 

I hadn't thought of that, Macky. Funny observation! :)

 

Best.

post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Visa and MasterCard are pushing chip and pin technology already in use in Europe. If Apple is going to do anything they will imbed the "chip" into their devices and work with Visa to tie it into their systems.

Not a hardware chip though, it would be something in software. Apple already has an identification tech with touch id. If it's two-factor, that helps guarantee that the user is the account owner. Banks use calculator-like devices to logon to online banking. They can replace that with an app. Each app would get some sort of key from the bank when installed and to pay for something, they can use the key plus the fingerprint plus a code to type in to verify a transaction. If someone stole the phone, they'd need the fingerprint plus the code to do anything with it. As soon as it's stolen, the bank is contacted and deauthorizes the key given to the app based on the user details so even if they manage to figure out the code and make a fake finger, the key is invalid.

Making a purchase would involve going near to a checkout, the user would launch the app, the shopkeeper would ring up the amount and it would show on the device, the buyer would then use the thumb and code to agree and they'd get a digital receipt held not only on the phone but it can be synced to the cloud. For regular shoppers, digital receipts can be accumulated by stores to give future discounts and that can act as an incentive to pay digitally.

Apple can even show users a breakdown of their spending per month, which helps them manage their money better. Some shoppers get carried away with purchases when they don't see a summary of what they're spending between stores. It's only when the credit card bill hits that they realise how much they've spent.
post #32 of 39
Carrier limitation doesn't equate to clusterfuck of a product.
post #33 of 39

I'm just waiting for my credit tube. I hear it's only 20 minutes away!  (If anyone gets this reference, you are an uber geek)

post #34 of 39

It doesn't need to be universal, it just needs to be accepted by the largest retailers, which is where most of our money is spent. Would a large supermarket chain do something just for Apple users? Yes, because many of them developed iOS only applications. Similar with gas stations.  You're talking companies who would invest millions to save 15-30 seconds off each transaction.

 

I think iWatch will be the biggie here - the end game is to make the retail transaction as 'display total, swipe finger to authorise'. The parts are starting to line up (iBeacon, the APIs in iOS 8).

 

For small corner stores - you could probably do something with an App for the merchant. Just think how many small merchants who didn't have POS terminals took up Square or Paypal apps to accept payment.

 

The hard part, technologically, would be identifying the customers device to invoice it, without introducing an additional tedious step. (Unless both devices have NFC, which they won't).

 

But the return on investment on both sides is pretty low - your local shop won't be able to turn over much extra business for the sake of those extra 15 seconds.

post #35 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

I'm just ready for the day where all I need when I leave the house is my phone. I'm tired of keys and wallets. We're almost there.
I hear you, J. Me too.

Hard to believe phones used to be attached to your house! 1smile.gif

What's more, everyone used to the same ring tone. 1cool.gif

Sometimes, it seems that everyone has the 'old phone' ringtone here in London, probably because it's one of the easiest to hear in noisy environments.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #36 of 39
Apple should buy Visa and make it obligatory to own an Apple device if you wish to use Visa in any capacity. They should then buy the other card companies, one by one, and monopolise mobile payments to become the world bank. Eventually, if you don't own an Apple device, you will only be able to make payments using cash.

Apple is just getting started.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #37 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Apple should buy Visa and make it obligatory to own an Apple device if you wish to use Visa in any capacity. They should then buy the other card companies, one by one, and monopolise mobile payments to become the world bank. Eventually, if you don't own an Apple device, you will only be able to make payments using cash.

Apple is just getting started.
Now that is a totally insane idea that will never happen.
post #38 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Apple should buy Visa and make it obligatory to own an Apple device if you wish to use Visa in any capacity. They should then buy the other card companies, one by one, and monopolise mobile payments to become the world bank. Eventually, if you don't own an Apple device, you will only be able to make payments using cash.

Apple is just getting started.

 

I'm guessing you don't really know how these "payment transaction processing systems" actually work... ;)

 

Monopolizing those would have happened a long time ago, if was remotely possible, which it probably isn't. Visa, Mastercard, American Express (and others who ride the backend systems like Cirrus, etc.).... they're about as close as we've ever come to "monopolies' within those systems... 

 

As long as banking regulations remain within the confines of "national control" (meaning they are different for every country that has international banking regulations) there will never be a scenario like the one you imagined. 

 

Could make for an interesting movie plot I guess, but ... reality? Nah... ;)

post #39 of 39
There is no advantage to using my phone over using a card. IMO this is one of the few use cases for an iWatch. Tapping my wrist to pay is far easier than using a card.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple's e-wallet could debut as soon as this fall, possibly with 'iPhone 6'