or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Judge voices concern over Apple's $450M e-book settlement, says may hurt consumers
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Judge voices concern over Apple's $450M e-book settlement, says may hurt consumers - Page 2

post #41 of 57
Don't worry people. Cotes is a true upstanding political judge. I even heard she is thinking of retiring soon. After all, I am pretty sure that she has been told that she has a job as an Amazon lobbiest making ten times what she is making now.
post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post

Apple has so much money, this judge thinks Apple should pay a fine even if Apple is proven not guilty! Is this what the USA has been reduced to? You are guilty even if you are proven not guilty. And, paying interest on money you do not have to pay? Really???

Earlier tonight I decided unsubscribe from all Democratic emails due to all the political games beng played in Washington, DC. Now reading yet another asinine game continuing to be played has me feeling even more disgusted about the USA legal system. And, to think THE Obama ADMINISTRATION is writing guidelines for drone surveillance in the USA.

Okay, I moved off topic, but it all is crashing in on the same day.

Ask OJ. 

post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post

Apple has so much money, this judge thinks Apple should pay a fine even if Apple is proven not guilty! Is this what the USA has been reduced to? You are guilty even if you are proven not guilty. And, paying interest on money you do not have to pay? Really???

Earlier tonight I decided unsubscribe from all Democratic emails due to all the political games beng played in Washington, DC. Now reading yet another asinine game continuing to be played has me feeling even more disgusted about the USA legal system. And, to think THE Obama ADMINISTRATION is writing guidelines for drone surveillance in the USA.

Okay, I moved off topic, but it all is crashing in on the same day.

Great I always wanted to have a war with Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia, Syria, Egypt, and Libya all at the same time. Lets show the world our military might and pound our chests as Republicans would like. I don't agree with everything Democrats/Obama Admin does but lets be clear the options are never going to be ideal between the available options in the US. You are always in a pick the best of the worst type of situation. 

post #44 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post

Don't worry people. Cotes is a true upstanding political judge. I even heard she is thinking of retiring soon. After all, I am pretty sure that she has been told that she has a job as an Amazon lobbiest making ten times what she is making now.

Amazon needs to start making money. It's been 15 years already. One can't sell everything at cost and make money. 

post #45 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by draugminaion View Post
 

As I understand it the appeal could have 3 results: Cote was right, Cote was wrong, or the trial was botched and we need a new one.

In that last case Apple settles for just 70m, which Cote thinks is not enough. 

 

Another nice touch is wanting Apple to pay interest while she stalls the appeal.

 

How they were found guilty is a bit of a mystery for me too. It seems to me that any similarity in the publishers actions is adequately explained by the shared experience of Amazon having them by the balls, and squeezing. No collusion required.

 

It has been mentioned that Apple is being punished for not playing along in the political circus, spending too little on lobbyists and such.

There are two separate trials. Apple lost the federal anti-trust case and is appealing that case. Most of the judgment there was for monitoring of Apples behavior. The (State Attorneys General) AsG sued as well and that is what is being settled. Apple said, fine we can skip a trial and we will pay X amount of money to the AsG and consumers. if we lose our appeal in the other case there is no chance to win this case anyway. They put in the big however, if the other case gets overturned and we are eventually found not liable in the federal case no money for the AsG. The objection seems to be to a partial settlement, if the original trial gets overturned on appeal but Apple still loses in the end. In either case it will be years and years before the appeals are finished and it can be decided if Apple owes any money to anybody.

post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post


Finding Apple guilty makes as much sense as wanting Apple to pay even if they are innocent.

The only way to understand it is to realize that the judge is on a power trip and probably doing her best to line the pockets of her friends.

no she was given a goal to bring in so my fine revenue for the government this year and she is not going to reach her goal.

post #47 of 57
Originally Posted by snailer View Post
I don't understand, Judge Cote; why can't you just let the FREE MARKET decide if they want to buy "overpriced" e-books?

 

Because communism’s in vogue these days.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #48 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because communism’s in vogue these days.

Models dressed in drab olive green will be prominently on display during fashion week. lol.gif
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #49 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by softeky View Post

All the more reason to overturn the whole decision on appeal.

This is the judge who said there were unusual mitigating circumstances but would not let those moderate her verdict because, well, (and I paraphrase) not willing to suggest existing law needs to be further qualified.

She is certainly turning the screws here.

Let's not forget that she's also the judge that said, before looking at any of the evidence, that the DOJ was going to have no issue proving their case.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #50 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally626 View Post

There are two separate trials. Apple lost the federal anti-trust case and is appealing that case. Most of the judgment there was for monitoring of Apples behavior. The (State Attorneys General) AsG sued as well and that is what is being settled. Apple said, fine we can skip a trial and we will pay X amount of money to the AsG and consumers. if we lose our appeal in the other case there is no chance to win this case anyway. They put in the big however, if the other case gets overturned and we are eventually found not liable in the federal case no money for the AsG. The objection seems to be to a partial settlement, if the original trial gets overturned on appeal but Apple still loses in the end. In either case it will be years and years before the appeals are finished and it can be decided if Apple owes any money to anybody.

In a way it makes sense. Federal court decisions generally set precedent for state courts. So if the state case goes to trial with a federal lose, the judge is more likely to find against Apple based on precedent.

HOWEVER, if the appeal goes In Apple's favor then the precedent sets up that Apple is not guilty and therefore should pay nothing because they owe nothing.

The reduced business is likely the amount they would 'lose' if they were to refund any costs over $9.99 on any books purchased during the applicable period ($9.99 being Amazon's typical price and the DOJs 'correct' price for an Ebook). There are also likely clauses excluding textbooks, any title they can prove Amazon sold for higher or was only sold by the publishers directly and it was a higher price, or any book that was 'published' directly by the author via Apple and thus never part of any 'collusion'.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Let's not forget that she's also the judge that said, before looking at any of the evidence, that the DOJ was going to have no issue proving their case.

IIRC she had seen the prosecution's evidence in advance of the trial, and before she made that comment.  It was standard procedures, and she was simply stating `her opinion of the evidence going into the case, which is fine.

 

EDIT: It wasn't just the prosecution's evidence, both sides filed lengthy documents.  Here are the pretrial memos that Judge Cote was basing her self described "tentative view" on:

http://www.litigationandtrial.com/files/2014/05/Apple-DOJ-Pretrial.pdf

http://www.litigationandtrial.com/files/2014/05/Apple-Apple-Pretrial.pdf


Edited by Crowley - 7/25/14 at 1:19pm

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #52 of 57

Every time this comes up I recall all the checks for pennies or under $10 that came to me after the class action suites that ensued after the 1999 stock market bubble burst. Also, this judge seems to have decided that this particular case is where she wants to put a stamp on her legacy. Yeah, I know: Legacy of #$*T?

post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post

Don't worry people. Cotes is a true upstanding political judge. I even heard she is thinking of retiring soon. After all, I am pretty sure that she has been told that she has a job as an Amazon lobbiest making ten times what she is making now.

Amazon needs to start making money. It's been 15 years already. One can't sell everything at cost and make money. 

 

Try twenty years.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because communism’s in vogue these days.

Models dressed in drab olive green will be prominently on display during fashion week. lol.gif

 

What's Popeye got to do with it?

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #55 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

What's Popeye got to do with it?

Popeye was a commie?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

What's Popeye got to do with it?

Popeye was a commie?

I was referring to Olive.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by snailer View Post

I don't understand, Judge Cote; why can't you just let the FREE MARKET decide if they want to buy "overpriced" e-books?


Because copyright isn't at issue in this trial.

 

And there will NEVER be a free market in books so long as copyright exists.  A government sanctioned monopoly on the text won't allow it.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Judge voices concern over Apple's $450M e-book settlement, says may hurt consumers