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Apple, Inc's double digit U.S. Mac growth contradicts IDC & Gartner reports of a Mac sales slump - Page 3

post #81 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 


And Motorola is winning by making all the BlackBerrys. And Windows Phone is winning because its on every Lumina. And there are some Lumina phones with really high resolution cameras! And Surface is winning as the Windows hybrid-tablet that isn't an actual notebook.

 

Except that nobody is buying those things and they aren't profitable. 

Windows is very profitable.

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post #82 of 123
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Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Your confusion is understandable. I suspect that Intel is very afraid that one of the heavy hitters in the computer business is selling tens of millions of iPad computers each year, that is also being embraced by enterprise, and doesn't have a single Intel chip inside. Sure, Intel could make those ARM chips for Apple, and Apple did try to get them to do so, but then Intel couldn't charge the same fat margins they get on the x86 chips they put into PCs. Additionally, there is always the change that once iPad sales are as big as PC sales (2018), Apple would have the clout to turn out a MBA packaged iPad and really shut Intel's money machine down. With IBM throwing their weight behind Apple that tipping point could happen even sooner.

Here's a factor that isn't often brought up; the cost of a business to house an employee within their own facility is enormous. Even with the reduced work station footprint of 4 x 5 feet (20 square feet) and then add an additional 20 square feet for hallways and common areas (these are minimal numbers), you have a total of 40 square feet of footprint that needs to be paid for, heated, lighted, air-conditioned, cleaned and maintained. This space continues to exist even if the enterprise owner lays off the employee. Now, assign a number to the space. Let's use $50 per square foot per month, and we got a fixed cost of $2000 per employee (and remember, I'm using minimum numbers here)

Now imagine you have that employee work from home. You save $2000 per month at a minimum of fixed building costs (and it's likely to be several times that amount). You still save additional monthly costs of large lit parking lots and extra expansion space. Now, here's the real nut of it all: what's the cost of an iPad in all this? Even if you have each employee come in one day a week, you've still cut your fixed operating expenses into a fifth of what they otherwise would be.
Um, I work from home several days a week. An iPad will never replace my need for a laptop (sorry Tim) unless I have the ability to dock it so I can use it with a monitor and keyboard. Also, a lot of work I do is in Excel and SQL Server. How does that get done on an iPad? How many of the 100s of enterprise apps Apple and IBM are developing will be developed on the iPad? I think the several quarters of YOY decline in iPad sales shows we're no where near post-PC. And I think Apple needs more than A8 and Touch ID to jump iPad sales. Hopefully it comes on the software side this fall.
post #83 of 123
If their figures for Apple are wrong, it is just as likely their figures for HP, Dell, etc are just as wrong, but probably in the other direction.
post #84 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Um, I work from home several days a week. An iPad will never replace my need for a laptop (sorry Tim) unless I have the ability to dock it so I can use it with a monitor and keyboard. Also, a lot of work I do is in Excel and SQL Server. How does that get done on an iPad? How many of the 100s of enterprise apps Apple and IBM are developing will be developed on the iPad? I think the several quarters of YOY decline in iPad sales shows we're no where near post-PC. And I think Apple needs more than A8 and Touch ID to jump iPad sales. Hopefully it comes on the software side this fall.

 

Never is a very long time.

 

People were saying the same thing about laptops (not enough power, can't run all programs) when it first came out. 

 

Again this is about VISION.   Some people have it, some people don't.

post #85 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 
Never is a very long time.

 

People were saying the same thing about laptops (not enough power, can't run all programs) when it first came out. 

 

Again this is about VISION.   Some people have it, some people don't.

Maybe early senility, but I don't recall anyone saying anything about a laptop not having enough power, can't run all programs. Even if it was said that must have been a long, long time ago. It is not a matter of vision, it is a matter of being realistic. There is a proper tool for each task and trying force one tool to do another's job is foolish. An iPad is like a Crescent wrench. Hardly a replacement for a proper set of sockets and spanners.

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post #86 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Never is a very long time.

 

People were saying the same thing about laptops (not enough power, can't run all programs) when it first came out. 

 

Again this is about VISION.   Some people have it, some people don't.

 

Unless the iPad becomes a hybrid type device, it won't replace most serious business usage. Nor do Apple expect it to. They make the analogy between trucks and cars - the PC being a truck i.e. used for work, with most people needing cars to get around but not for work. Thats a fine analogy, but it still means some people continue to need trucks, like Rogifan who is talking about his work environment. SQL server will never work on an iPad. xCode will never run on an iPad. The list of what will never run on an iPad is massive. 

 

if you think the iPad can replace all business use, you are thinking Hybrid. But Apple is not going down that route. There is room for iPads in the enterprise, for salesmen, presentations and so on. Although any serious device for work needs more flash space. Thats coming. Whats not coming is hybrid car-trucks, or iPads replacing all business use. 

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post #87 of 123

Not long ago, I read where Apple, unlike it competitors, reported "sell-through" quantities not "shipped" quantities.  Is this still the case and is there a definitive link to this?  TY.

post #88 of 123
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Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

Windows is very profitable.

 

OSX is free.

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post #89 of 123

Not that it's particularly relevant, but "free when you buy a >$500 computer" is not really free.

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post #90 of 123
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Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Windows is very profitable.

...for Microsoft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

A (fact-based, scientifically arrived at) approximation is NOT THE SAME as an opinion.

For the past two Presidential elections, for example, I avidly read Nate Silver and Nate Cohen, followed various polling over months.  In 2008 I correctly predicted the results in 49 of 50 states.  In 2012, I was 50 for 50.  So, in the last two elections combined I have a 99% accuracy rate.

Now, let's be fair: It really isn't difficult to predict what's going to happen in CA or MS.  That leaves us with the 10-ish "swing states" to really have to make any sort of choice.  Out the ~20 swing states that were up for grabs in the two elections, I am 19-20.  I incorrectly gave NC to McCain in 2008.

In today's final Singles at the LPGA International Crown (that's golf), there were 10 Singles matches.  I was 10-10.

An informed prediction is a HELL OF A LOT different than an opinion.

An opinion is something like "Blake Lively has amazing legs," (well, that's practically FACT, but anyways ...) or "Hunger Games" was better than "Catching Fire."

Nope. An informed opinion/prediction is still an opinion until it is proven.
post #91 of 123
So its okay to count PC tablets and netbooks as PC sales but not iPads as Mac sales?
What a bunch of poppy cock! And then to come to a totally bogus conclusion on Mac sales and outright lie that PC sales have gone up. Something is very wrong with Gartner and IDC.
I will no longer trust or believe anything Gartner and IDC have to say anymore just like Consumer Reports. These 3 now have a reputation for prejudice against Apple. Lying about Apple products in there reports will get them no where because Apple will report the truth in the end. If they get paid for there reports by vendors then it is more obvious that they will try and side with those that pay the most. Samsung is known for lies about its benchmarks for its devices. So its no surprise that Apple is portrayed as lower in there reports because I don't think Apple pays anything to Gartner or IDC.
post #92 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frood View Post



Without Apple breaking out regional sales, there really is nothing to support the authors wish that their data was wrong. If you read Tim's statement he never says the achieved double digit growth in the US. He says they achieved double digit growth across many countries, the subset of which includes the US. So basically China and India could have made up for the shrinkage in the US and his statement would be validly true even though it has a little DED like misdirection. He was also very explicit in stating 32 of 33 quarters of growth in *global* market share.



If their numbers are pure fiction DED should get on the hotline with Tim and tell him to stop referencing IDC data in his calls.



 



Welcome to AppleInsider.   This is quite amusing how Apple fanbois collectively fail to distinguish between the US sales by IDC and Apple's announced Global sales.  I've noticed in other forums they tend to emphasize US sales figure over global ones -- especially when citing Samsung's 2012 sales -- or whenever it suits their argument.  Bias confirmation much?


 

\

Hey, tooltalk, it might help to reread what Cook said in the conference call.
post #93 of 123
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Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


...for Microsoft.

Obviously.

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post #94 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post
 

 

Welcome to AppleInsider.   This is quite amusing how Apple fanbois collectively fail to distinguish between the US sales by IDC and Apple's announced Global sales.  I've noticed in other forums they tend to emphasize US sales figure over global ones -- especially when citing Samsung's 2012 sales -- or whenever it suits their argument.  Bias confirmation much?


If you want to hear more about how IDC invents its figures to achieve a particular number, you can read the ex-IDC analyst describing how in the re

Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post
 

 

Welcome to AppleInsider.   This is quite amusing how Apple fanbois collectively fail to distinguish between the US sales by IDC and Apple's announced Global sales.  I've noticed in other forums they tend to emphasize US sales figure over global ones -- especially when citing Samsung's 2012 sales -- or whenever it suits their argument.  Bias confirmation much?


I know you are a troll account, but "Apple spokesman Steve Dowling confirmed Monday that the growth was double digit (i.e. 10% or more) in each of those markets" - Fortune. 

 

Go back under your bridge.

post #95 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post
 
Quote:
 
Originally Posted by Frood View Post



Without Apple breaking out regional sales, there really is nothing to support the authors wish that their data was wrong. If you read Tim's statement he never says the achieved double digit growth in the US. He says they achieved double digit growth across many countries, the subset of which includes the US. So basically China and India could have made up for the shrinkage in the US and his statement would be validly true even though it has a little DED like misdirection. He was also very explicit in stating 32 of 33 quarters of growth in *global* market share.



If their numbers are pure fiction DED should get on the hotline with Tim and tell him to stop referencing IDC data in his calls.
 

 

 

Welcome to AppleInsider.   This is quite amusing how Apple fanbois collectively fail to distinguish between the US sales by IDC and Apple's announced Global sales.  I've noticed in other forums they tend to emphasize US sales figure over global ones -- especially when citing Samsung's 2012 sales -- or whenever it suits their argument.  Bias confirmation much?

 

\

Hey, tooltalk, it might help to reread what Cook said in the conference call.

 

You may want to as well, since Cook said none of the items that he is quoted as having said =P

post #96 of 123
Numbers aren't jiving in my read. According to DED's article "Globally, Apple reported that Mac sales jumped from 3.75 million to 4.41 million year-over-year for its fiscal Q3, a unit increase of 18 percent and a new June quarter record" At the same time Maestri apparently reported that China's Mac sales were up 39% YOY. 1confused.gif That would eat up more than half the Mac sales increase reported wouldn't it?

"But it was the 39 per cent increase in MacBook and iMac sales in China (according to CFO Luca Maestri in a Reuters interview) which showed how far Apple has engaged more consumers on the back of demand for the iPhone and iPad. That is especially true on the mainland, the world's biggest market for personal computers.

Cook said the Mac line showed "some substantial strength" amid a slowdown in personal computer shipment growth in most markets worldwide. "China was projected to contract by 5 per cent," he said."
http://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/1557739/halo-effect-iphone-ipad-lifts-mac-computer-sales-china
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/22/us-apple-results-china-idUSKBN0FR2CU20140722

If the China comments were accurate I don't see where there was room for double-digit growth in all these other markets cited in the AI article seeing as overall worldwide sales were up only 18%. Perhaps I'm just confused and misreading numbers since afterall it is a Monday after a really good weekend. 1biggrin.gif

Maybe Sog or one of our other numbers guys can make sense of it.
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/28/14 at 12:33pm
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post #97 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Numbers aren't jiving in my read. According to DED's article "Globally, Apple reported that Mac sales jumped from 3.75 million to 4.41 million year-over-year for its fiscal Q3, a unit increase of 18 percent and a new June quarter record" At the same time Maestri apparently reported that China's Mac sales were up 39% YOY. 1confused.gif That would eat up more than half the Mac sales increase reported wouldn't it?

"But it was the 39 per cent increase in MacBook and iMac sales in China (according to CFO Luca Maestri in a Reuters interview) which showed how far Apple has engaged more consumers on the back of demand for the iPhone and iPad. That is especially true on the mainland, the world's biggest market for personal computers.

Cook said the Mac line showed "some substantial strength" amid a slowdown in personal computer shipment growth in most markets worldwide. "China was projected to contract by 5 per cent," he said."
http://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/1557739/halo-effect-iphone-ipad-lifts-mac-computer-sales-china
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/22/us-apple-results-china-idUSKBN0FR2CU20140722

If the China comments were accurate I don't see where there was room for double-digit growth in all these other markets cited in the AI article seeing as overall worldwide sales were up only 18%. Perhaps I'm just confused and misreading numbers since afterall it is a Monday after a really good weekend. 1biggrin.gif

 

"We achieved strong double digit Mac growth across many countries, including the U.S. Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, India and the Middle-East. "

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2331715-apples-aapl-ceo-tim-cook-on-q3-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=1

 

THE END.

 

Apple could have easily grew Mac sales 39% in China AND double digit growth in the USA if the China units were relatively small.

post #98 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

 

You may want to as well, since Cook said none of the items that he is quoted as having said =P

Perhaps your ability to deconstruct a simple sentence in the English language is far more sophisticated than mine, but as the article notes (you can also look up the conference call transcripts): "Tim Cook specifically noted, "we achieved strong double digit Mac growth across many countries, including the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, India and the Middle-East" during the company's earnings call.""

 

Add: I see that sog35 beat me to it.

post #99 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Apple could have easily grew Mac sales 39% in China AND double digit growth in the USA if the China units were relatively small.

That's all there is to it. (Moreover, to suggest -- as some have -- that Tim Cook could not be telling the truth about something like that in an analyst call setting is ludicrous, given the risks it poses to the company and to him personally)

post #100 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

"We achieved strong double digit Mac growth across many countries, including the U.S. Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, India and the Middle-East. "

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2331715-apples-aapl-ceo-tim-cook-on-q3-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=1

THE END.

Apple could have easily grew Mac sales 39% in China AND double digit growth in the USA if the China units were relatively small.

Apple's China's Mac numbers last year were reported to be 1.8M (from the SCMP link). . If they're truly up 39%, or about 700K wouldn't that account for the entire worldwide sales increase of around 660K and then some? The numbers just aren't making sense to me.

Does 660K units allow for almost 40% increase in China Mac sales PLUS at least 10% more in the US, PLUS at least 10% more in Canada PLUS at least 10% more in 7 other regions pretty much covering all of Apple's largest markets? I'm thinking maybe there's some apples and oranges discussed in the conference call. Perhaps Cook is citing some different time frame or different comparables than Maestri was in the conference call?
Edited by Gatorguy - 7/28/14 at 1:13pm
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post #101 of 123
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Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Nope. An informed opinion/prediction is still an opinion until it is proven.

 

An opinion, pretty much by definition, can never be proven.

 

"Baseball is better than football."  Prove it (or disprove it).  Now, if someone said something like, "Baseball is a more popular sport than football in the US," that can easily be disproven by any number of metrics.  But that's because there are FACTS involved.  But, "Marlowe was a better writer than Shakespeare, " while being a fairly unpopular and fringe opinion (which, nonetheless is still held by some) cannot ever be proven or disproven.  It's just up to the tastes of the individual reader.

 

A prediction is not synonymous with an opinion.  A prediction, assuming the person has some background and foundation in the area being discussed, is envisioning what is a LIKELY outcome of events.  This prediction is based on history, facts, trends, and an understanding of the area being discussed.

 

For instance, if Clayton Kershaw is pitching for the Dodgers against a rookie who had a 4.78 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP in the minors, and also had a less than 2-1 K/BB ratio, the PREDICTION that LA is going to win is a fairly solid one, based on given evidence.  Does it mean that there is a 100% that the Dodgers will win?  No.  It just means that it's HIGHLY LIKELY given everything we know (both about the individuals involved and about baseball in general -- how games often revolve around the strength of the starting pitching, for instance).

 

No one ever said that a (well-arrived at) prediction is a fact.  I just said that a prediction is not the same as an opinion.

post #102 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Apple's China's Mac numbers last year were reported to be 1.8M (from the SCMP link). . If they're truly up 39%, or about 700K wouldn't that account for the entire worldwide sales increase of around 660K and then some? The numbers just aren't making sense to me. Perhaps Cook is citing some different time frame or different comparables than Maestri was in the conference call?

 

The 1.8M in China was for the entire 2013.  And that number was not confirmed by Cook.

 

Also some countries may have had negative growth.

post #103 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Um, I work from home several days a week. An iPad will never replace my need for a laptop (sorry Tim) unless I have the ability to dock it so I can use it with a monitor and keyboard. Also, a lot of work I do is in Excel and SQL Server. How does that get done on an iPad? How many of the 100s of enterprise apps Apple and IBM are developing will be developed on the iPad? I think the several quarters of YOY decline in iPad sales shows we're no where near post-PC. And I think Apple needs more than A8 and Touch ID to jump iPad sales. Hopefully it comes on the software side this fall.

I don't disagree, I use my MBP for tons of stuff, I tend to use my iPad Air for Netflix and checking mail and reading mostly. That's kind of what Apple has always espoused, use the right tool for the right job. They don't make a hybrid piece of crap that fails at both like Microsoft. That said there are literally limitless used for iPads in input scenarios, just not for what i do nor probably what you do. That's the beauty of Apple's range of products. My nMac Pro is currently cranking out 4K video and uploading while I type this on my MBP. My Mac mini is running Yosemite and Yosemite Server and CrushFTP and my iPad is by the bed ready for when I turn in. 1smoking.gif
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post #104 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Patently Apple says Intel is launching a new CPU this fall that will allow for fanless designs but the CPUs will only be for Windows 2-in-1's (presumably so they can go fanless before Apple does). Has Intel done this before and does it signal that Apple needs to think about breaking away from Intel?

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/07/intels-14nm-core-m-cpus-launch-this-fall-but-not-for-macs.html

My understanding is that this 14nm Core M is designated for tablets. It might be Intel's decision not to let OEMs use Core M in laptops and desktops. I'm pretty sure it happened before, that Intel on purpose limited usage scenarios for some of their parts. Apple does not do x86 tablets, and MBA might not qualify for Intel's Core M licensing requirements.
post #105 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Apple's China's Mac numbers last year were reported to be 1.8M (from the SCMP link). . If they're truly up 39%, or about 700K wouldn't that account for the entire worldwide sales increase of around 660K and then some? The numbers just aren't making sense to me.

Does 660K units allow for almost 40% increase in China Mac sales PLUS at least 10% more in the US, PLUS at least 10% more in Canada PLUS at least 10% more in 7 other regions pretty much covering all of Apple's largest markets? I'm thinking maybe there's some apples and oranges discussed in the conference call. Perhaps Cook is citing some different time frame or different comparables than Maestri was in the conference call?

Don't worry, relax and stop trying to find fault in anything Tim / Apple do or say. You'll just get ulcers. Rest assured, Tim knows far more than you about all this and probably most things. 1biggrin.gif
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post #106 of 123

There's no profit in the Windows PC market because it's a race to the bottom using crap components.

 

There's plenty of money in Windows, especially selling to corporates. No company in any of the professional services industries is ever going to  use Macs.

post #107 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Rest assured, Tim knows far more than you about all this and probably most things. 1biggrin.gif

Not sure ALL those others writing and commenting about it do tho. 1wink.gif

,,, and I'd wager there's a few things we could all teach Tim Cook if he asked. Many of us are pretty good at what we do just as I'm sure you are.
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post #108 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

There's no profit in the Windows PC market because it's a race to the bottom using crap components.

There's plenty of money in Windows, especially selling to corporates. No company in any of the professional services industries is ever going to  use Macs.

I agree with paragraph one. As to the second one, print out your statement and check it in a decade. There is a massive sea change underway. Not saying Macs will replace PCs, I'm saying PCs won't be in use running Windows.
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post #109 of 123
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
Hey, tool talk, it might help to... ...read...

 

Could’ve stopped there, really.

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post #110 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

Perhaps your ability to deconstruct a simple sentence in the English language is far more sophisticated than mine, but as the article notes (you can also look up the conference call transcripts): "Tim Cook specifically noted, "we achieved strong double digit Mac growth across many countries, including the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, India and the Middle-East" during the company's earnings call.""

 

Add: I see that sog35 beat me to it.

 

I agree that across the countries including the US, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, India and the Middle-East, Apple achieved double digit growth.

 

That says nothing about the growth in each of the individual countries, other than at least one of them must have double digit growth.

 

DED has since updated to reflect that Apple clarified this to specifically state they had achieved those results in the US specifically.

 

Yourself and sog suggesting people read the transcripts is interesting.  If you read them yourself you would see that he never says what DED quoted him as saying and which everyone here is now parroting "Tim Cook said..."  I'm not sure if AI qualifies as a journalist, but if you are going to specifically quote someone, not only should the wording be exact, but the person who said it should also be correctly identified.


Edited by Frood - 7/28/14 at 6:00pm
post #111 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

I agree that across the countries including the US, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, India and the Middle-East, Apple achieved double digit growth.

That says nothing about the growth in each of the individual countries, other than at least one of them must have double digit growth.

DED has since updated to reflect that Apple clarified this to specifically state they had achieved those results in the US specifically.

Yourself and sog suggesting people read the transcripts is interesting.  If you read them yourself you would see that he never says what DED quoted him as saying and which everyone here is now parroting "Tim Cook said..."  I'm not sure if AI qualifies as a journalist, but if you are going to specifically quote someone, not only should the wording be exact, but the person who said it should also be correctly identified.

Stop playing dumb. You don't play list a group a regions/countries and guess which one has double digit growth.
post #112 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

 

I agree that across the countries including the US, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, India and the Middle-East, Apple achieved double digit growth.

 

That says nothing about the growth in each of the individual countries, other than at least one of them must have double digit growth.

 

DED has since updated to reflect that Apple clarified this to specifically state they had achieved those results in the US specifically.

 

Yourself and sog suggesting people read the transcripts is interesting.  If you read them yourself you would see that he never says what DED quoted him as saying and which everyone here is now parroting "Tim Cook said..."  I'm not sure if AI qualifies as a journalist, but if you are going to specifically quote someone, not only should the wording be exact, but the person who said it should also be correctly identified.

 

I give up.

post #113 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

Yourself and sog suggesting people read the transcripts is interesting.  If you read them yourself you would see that he never says what DED quoted him as saying and which everyone here is now parroting "Tim Cook said..."  I'm not sure if AI qualifies as a journalist, but if you are going to specifically quote someone, not only should the wording be exact, but the person who said it should also be correctly identified.

You may be right on that picky little point. It may be Maestri who said it, I do not recall. I do not have the time or inclination to go back and look now. I had read the transcript soon after it came out, and subsequently relied on how websites were reporting it.

That does not, in any way, matter for the larger point we are trying to make here about Apple's double digit growth not being just in the US.
post #114 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Numbers aren't jiving in my read. According to DED's article "Globally, Apple reported that Mac sales jumped from 3.75 million to 4.41 million year-over-year for its fiscal Q3, a unit increase of 18 percent and a new June quarter record" At the same time Maestri apparently reported that China's Mac sales were up 39% YOY. 1confused.gif That would eat up more than half the Mac sales increase reported wouldn't it?

"But it was the 39 per cent increase in MacBook and iMac sales in China (according to CFO Luca Maestri in a Reuters interview) which showed how far Apple has engaged more consumers on the back of demand for the iPhone and iPad. That is especially true on the mainland, the world's biggest market for personal computers.

Cook said the Mac line showed "some substantial strength" amid a slowdown in personal computer shipment growth in most markets worldwide. "China was projected to contract by 5 per cent," he said."
http://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/1557739/halo-effect-iphone-ipad-lifts-mac-computer-sales-china
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/22/us-apple-results-china-idUSKBN0FR2CU20140722

If the China comments were accurate I don't see where there was room for double-digit growth in all these other markets cited in the AI article seeing as overall worldwide sales were up only 18%. Perhaps I'm just confused and misreading numbers since afterall it is a Monday after a really good weekend. 1biggrin.gif

Maybe Sog or one of our other numbers guys can make sense of it.

They are probably big increases from a low base in China. It makes no sense to think that the 39% in China most be half the growth. It depends on the previous number of sales in China.

As for the general linguistic theme here: if a CEO groups otherwise unrelated countries into a "across all countries with double digit growth" list, he means they all individually had double digit growth.

If he was averaging it out he wouldn't need to exclude any countries because overall unit growth was above single digits across all countries. Therefore to narrow down to that specific list is to specify which countries specifically had double digit growth. Individually.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #115 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Numbers aren't jiving in my read. According to DED's article "Globally, Apple reported that Mac sales jumped from 3.75 million to 4.41 million year-over-year for its fiscal Q3, a unit increase of 18 percent and a new June quarter record" At the same time Maestri apparently reported that China's Mac sales were up 39% YOY. 1confused.gif That would eat up more than half the Mac sales increase reported wouldn't it?

"But it was the 39 per cent increase in MacBook and iMac sales in China (according to CFO Luca Maestri in a Reuters interview) which showed how far Apple has engaged more consumers on the back of demand for the iPhone and iPad. That is especially true on the mainland, the world's biggest market for personal computers.

Cook said the Mac line showed "some substantial strength" amid a slowdown in personal computer shipment growth in most markets worldwide. "China was projected to contract by 5 per cent," he said."
http://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/1557739/halo-effect-iphone-ipad-lifts-mac-computer-sales-china
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/22/us-apple-results-china-idUSKBN0FR2CU20140722

If the China comments were accurate I don't see where there was room for double-digit growth in all these other markets cited in the AI article seeing as overall worldwide sales were up only 18%. Perhaps I'm just confused and misreading numbers since afterall it is a Monday after a really good weekend. 1biggrin.gif

Maybe Sog or one of our other numbers guys can make sense of it.

They are probably big increases from a low base in China. It makes no sense to think that the 39% in China most be half the growth. It depends on the previous number of sales in China.

As for the general linguistic theme here: if a CEO groups otherwise unrelated countries into a "across all countries with double digit growth" list, he means they all individually had double digit growth.

If he was averaging it out he wouldn't need to exclude any countries because overall unit growth was above single digits across all countries. Therefore to narrow down to that specific list is to specify which countries specifically had double digit growth. Individually.

Indeed. And Tim Cook was perfectly clear. It doesn't surprise me that Frood tried to make an issue about it, as he is well-known here as being negative about Apple to a trollish degree. I'm impressed with people's patience with him, as everyone has been stating the obvious many times over, yet falling on deaf ears.

Anyway, excellent article. I'd love it if Apple brought out a 13" iPad. Presumably, IDC and Gartner would still ignore it, because "it doesn't have a keyboard, which makes it not a very good email machine."
1rolleyes.gif1rolleyes.gif1rolleyes.gif
.... 1rolleyes.gif
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #116 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Never is a very long time.

 

People were saying the same thing about laptops (not enough power, can't run all programs) when it first came out. 

 

Again this is about VISION.   Some people have it, some people don't.

 

Given that Compaq had a portable that was a fully powered PC in 1983 I call bullshit.

 

Again this is about BS.  Some people shovel it, some people don't.

post #117 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

 

You may want to as well, since Cook said none of the items that he is quoted as having said =P

 

Hey supergenius:

 

Apple spokesman Steve Dowling confirmed Monday that the growth was double digit (i.e. 10% or more) in each of those markets.

 

http://fortune.com/2014/07/28/pc-sales-estimates-how-the-sausage-gets-made/

post #118 of 123
Apple just reported a record June quarter of Mac sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


The numbers just aren't making sense to me.

Well of course they don't.
post #119 of 123
IDC has lost a lot of CREDIBILITY. In their business, that is life threatening. Trust is hard to build but easy to demolish.
post #120 of 123
It's by now well established that these market estimates are BS. So why is it that apple insider continues to post their reports as if they're valid? When the last report came out this very site reported "apple sales did this..." when we all know they did nothing of the kind. If the cardinal rule of comment pages is 'don't feed the troll', the same must be true of above the line content. IDC, Gartner etc are just trolls, treating them otherwise gives them credibility they don't deserve. What was that piece a couple of days back where apple insider passed on figures showing 'other' smartphone makers jumped 40 million in three months? For Christ sake, question this shit, don't just parrot it onwards. And no, an article a few days later pointing out problems in the basis of the article a few days before doesn't count. Just don't feed the effing troll!!!!
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