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Apple refreshes MacBook Pro with Retina display lineup with faster CPUs, more RAM standard - Page 2

post #41 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I don't think they should do that though, I think their current strategy is right. Pushing SSDs will help drive their prices down. Fusion drives would slow down adoption and they aren't as fast or reliable. I would also rather they scrapped the old model entirely.

I never understand that thinking. Because you don't want the model with the opical drive and hard drive, they should quit making it? Some prople prefer that model, as several posters here have noted - if Apple's willing to make it, that's great.


Edited by elroth - 7/29/14 at 3:13pm
post #42 of 76
Originally Posted by elroth View Post
So all the people who prefer that model can go take a hike?


All ten of them.

 
What difference does it make to you (or anyone) if Apple builds a model you're not interested in? 

 

I’ve never understood how this is an argument. So Apple should build a 21” laptop, 3” thick, with SLI GPUs and three internal hard drives? Because one person wants it? NO.

 

Incidentally, that exists. I’ll try to find it again...

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #43 of 76

I'm not saying Apple SHOULD do anything, unlike you.

 

What difference does it make to you if Apple builds a model you're not interested in?

post #44 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Only if they’re paying no attention whatsoever. You’re whining about an update ON THE DAY OF AN UPDATE.

 

No, I’m upset with you.

Perhaps you should look up the definition of whining. I didn't complain about the update at all and I didn't imply there was anything wrong with the current update.

post #45 of 76
Originally Posted by elroth View Post
What difference does it make to you if Apple builds a model you're not interested in?


For the answer to this question that was already posted, see the post to which it was replying.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #46 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post
 

I'm not saying Apple SHOULD do anything, unlike you.

 

What difference does it make to you if Apple builds a model you're not interested in?

 

I've never understood that mindset either. If something doesn't interest me, I just don't buy it. I don't opine that no one else should be able to buy it. If Apple decides to make a laptop with a click-wheel instead of a keyboard, how does that affect me? Why on Earth would I care one way or the other?


Edited by Lorin Schultz - 7/29/14 at 8:26pm

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

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post #47 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

No BTO to 32GB is for my way of thinking an immediate no sale. I will never buy a Mac that limits the RAM to half the standard support.

First of all, 16GB of memory is a ton of memory for a laptop. More than enough for the overwhelming majority of uses. If you really need that much RAM for your work, buy the right computer - an expandable iMac or Pro - if the laptop doesn't meet your needs. As per the old saying, use the right tool for the job.

It's not about the chipset! This is a laptop! It's about overall performance in balance with battery life, as well as issues with heat dissipation. I'm sure that to accommodate 32GB of RAM we need to wait for the next redesign as the computer will need additional change to accommodate the size, power and heat of the larger configuration. This is only a refresh and most likely at the engineering limits. BTW, laptops ARE NOT desktop computers. If you really need that much RAM for your work the choices are clear.
Edited by FreeRange - 7/29/14 at 8:27pm
post #48 of 76
Twice the RAM compared to before... I guess they're expecting the next OSX to be a real pig.
post #49 of 76
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post
Twice the RAM compared to before... I guess they're expecting the next OSX to be a real pig.

 

Yosemite’s requirement is 2 gigs.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #50 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post

Twice the RAM compared to before... I guess they're expecting the next OSX to be a real pig.

-1
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post #51 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So Apple should build a 21” laptop, 3” thick, with SLI GPUs and three internal hard drives? Because one person wants it? NO.

Incidentally, that exists. I’ll try to find it again...




http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/161237/apples-new-cylindrical-mac-pro-desktop-arrives-thursday-starting-at-2-999/240#post_2448942

The thing does take TWO adapters, ya know, for that extra power:

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post #52 of 76
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
The thing does take TWO adapters, ya know, for that extra power:

 

Dear heavens.

 

But no, I was thinking of a dedicated gaming laptop. This one, in fact. Click for nice and big.

 

Take it ALL~ in, baby. And you can get the case customized in any way physically possible. Meaning color and logo on the lid, basically. They can use a paint that costs $1,200 PER PINT if you want (as seen above; it changes color). Two 880M GPUs, four RAM slots, FOUR hard drives…

 

And best of all, since it’s already as thick as a VCR, they put some nice 7-bar numbers on the front bezel so you can relive those classic [div class=“blink”]12:00[/div] memories. Yes, I know the blink tag doesn’t work anymore. Screw you, modern HTML standards.

 

 

And honestly? The price? I would actually almost call it reasonable, and that surprises me. And if that isn’t enough, they also do desktops.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #53 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

^ post

Holy cow!

Yes! 17" matte
Yes! 32GB
Yes! 4x1TB. I could do RAID!
Yes! 6x BlueRay & DVD Writer
Yes! 8-cell battery
Yes! 3 internal speakers
Yes! Fingerprint reader for optional biomettic security
"MS Windows 8.1" ...hmpf

Well, at least they made it easy for us to carry the 9.4lbs thing:

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post #54 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

I never understand that thinking. Because you don't want the model with the opical drive and hard drive, they should quit making it? Some prople prefer that model, as several posters here have noted - if Apple's willing to make it, that's great.

For legacy technology to be phased out, it needs to be removed as an option. If Apple kept putting firewire ports on things, people would keep using firewire peripherals.

DVD drives are history, Blu Ray hasn't taken off by Sony's own admission:

http://advanced-television.com/2014/05/02/sony-blu-ray-write-down/

"Sony has confirmed it would take a $145 million write-down on its Blu-ray disc business. Sony was a pioneer for Blu-ray technology but now says it has further revised downward its anticipated profitability reflecting the slump in sales of packaged media. Sony says it does not expect to recover the value of its current stockpile of product. Instead, consumers are buying into streamed entertainment services from established pay-TV broadcasters as well as new entrants Netflix, iTunes and other OTT suppliers of content."

This is what people have been saying for years. It was obvious with advancing internet speeds and ubiquity that digital distribution was going to be the way forward. Optical media has some place for movie ownership but it's not an essential component for a computer just like a printer isn't essential or a modem any more (laptops used to have modems in them). Optical is now relegated to external status.

The writing's on the wall for hard drives too and offering it leads people to ignore the speed benefits of the SSD. They are 10x faster than hard drives and can be put into standby much more easily. Laptops behave like iPads when they have an SSD in them and you can move them around easily with the assurance that a bump here and there won't suddenly crash the entire drive. The cost is high just now but that isn't helped by people continuing to buy hard drives.
post #55 of 76
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
DVD drives are history, Blu Ray hasn't taken off by Sony's own admission:

 

Well, honestly, it had a six year run. That’s okay, I guess. Pathetic in the face of VHS and DVD, but when the books are written, “It existed for a while” will be jotted down in the margins.

 
people continuing to buy hard drives.

 

Why isn’t there a drive larger than 4 terabytes yet? How is this acceptable? And no, the 5 and 6 terabyte drives full of helium (WASTING PRECIOUS HELIUM) don’t count; we can’t buy them.

 

There’s a 4TB SSD available now. You may guess the price, of course, but it shows that spinning drives won’t have excuse to exist for much longer. Still, I want something larger than that if I’m going to be told to update.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 7/30/14 at 1:17am

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #56 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The cost is high just now but that isn't helped by people continuing to buy hard drives.

Indeed, that tech, from 1954!, needs to be replaced. People, please, stop buying laptops with a HDD.
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post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I was hoping that Apple would use the revision to revisit their UK prices, but alas they have not.
Given the recent changes in the exchange rate the impact of a revisit would likely be in the opposite direction to what you want.

When the Retina MBP was released the exchange rate was £1 = $1.55, now it’s £1 = $1.69, so any change should be in the direction I was hoping for.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #58 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


When the Retina MBP was released the exchange rate was £1 = $1.55, now it’s £1 = $1.69, so any change should be in the direction I was hoping for.

You're right, sorry, I had a mind-bork and did the exchange calculation the wrong way.


Edited by Crowley - 7/30/14 at 3:27am

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post #59 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If Apple kept putting firewire ports on things, people would keep using firewire peripherals.

 

So? Why is that a problem? It wouldn't adversely affect your ability to use Thunderbolt if you choose. Why would you care if some people choose to continue using Firewire?

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post #60 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Dear heavens.

But no, I was thinking of a dedicated gaming laptop. This one, in fact. Click for nice and big.



Take it ALL~ in, baby. And you can get the case customized in any way physically possible. Meaning color and logo on the lid, basically. They can use a paint that costs $1,200 PER PINT if you want (as seen above; it changes color). Two 880M GPUs, four RAM slots,
FOUR
hard drives…


And best of all, since it’s already as thick as a VCR, they put some nice 7-bar numbers on the front bezel so you can relive those classic [div class=“blink”]12:00[/div] memories. Yes, I know the blink tag doesn’t work anymore. Screw you, modern HTML standards.




And honestly? The price? I would actually almost call it reasonable, and that surprises me. And if that isn
’t enough, they also do desktops.

There is only one gaming laptop that I would even consider and that's the new Razor Blade.

razer-blade-gallery-v3-04.png
RzrBlade14_13.png
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post #61 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This is what people have been saying for years. It was obvious with advancing internet speeds and ubiquity that digital distribution was going to be the way forward. Optical media has some place for movie ownership but it's not an essential component for a computer just like a printer isn't essential or a modem any more (laptops used to have modems in them). Optical is now relegated to external status.

I didn't clue into the fact that the new MacBook Pros don't have an ethernet port until I read your post. I looked up the specs and diagrams yesterday, but it just didn't click in my head that that was gone. I guess that's a testament to how little I use it.

post #62 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post
 

 

So? Why is that a problem? It wouldn't adversely affect your ability to use Thunderbolt if you choose. Why would you care if some people choose to continue using Firewire?

I think what he's trying to say is, if people continue to use Firewire so much, despite it being the worse technology, companies will take the easier/cheaper way out and continue to develop Firewire accessories and ignore Thunderbolt. Those of us ready to use the new technology won't get a chance, because no one will develop it. If that happens enough, technological progress will slow. So in that sense, we need a big company to throw away the outdated stuff and force change and progress.

post #63 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If Apple kept putting firewire ports on things, people would keep using firewire peripherals.

So? Why is that a problem? It wouldn't adversely affect your ability to use Thunderbolt if you choose. Why would you care if some people choose to continue using Firewire?

Same reason I'd care if they used a floppy drive, VGA port or a PS/2 port. It's legacy baggage that needs to go. The more that people use legacy tech, the more people put pressure on vendors to support it and it's wasteful of their time and compromises their hardware design and price. Removing unnecessary components allows them to allocate that budget elsewhere so they can improve the more important essential aspects like the display, internal storage and RAM.

Thunderbolt is a form of PCIe and is a catch-all for all of these protocols. USB 3 + TB is all people will ever need and a future revision of TB supports USB 3 so even the USB 3 ports may not be necessary but IMO, it would be a good idea to stick with at least 1 USB port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid 
I didn't clue into the fact that the new MacBook Pros don't have an ethernet port until I read your post. I looked up the specs and diagrams yesterday, but it just didn't click in my head that that was gone. I guess that's a testament to how little I use it.

In those cases, it's just a matter of getting a Thunderbolt or USB 3 adaptor. The ethernet port was too tall and was effectively limiting how thin they could get the MBP.

For an optical drive, portable Blu-Ray drives are cheap enough:

http://www.amazon.com/Blu-Ray-Player-External-Laptop-Burner/dp/B001TVAU0E
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SE-506BB-TSBD-External-Blu-ray/dp/B00AO1XFM0

And when they break, they can be replaced easily unlike an internal. As you pointed out, people eventually realise how little they used these things anyway. It's a bit of a panic when the need crops up but it's nothing that a drawer-dwelling add-on can't fix just like the dusty printer in the corner.
post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Same reason I'd care if they used a floppy drive, VGA port or a PS/2 port. It's legacy baggage that needs to go.

 

That sounds elitist. I disagree with your assessment. I contend that my choice to use floppy disks has no affect on your computing experience whatsoever. I still respect and like you, I just think you're being too hard on average users.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
The more that people use legacy tech, the more people put pressure on vendors to support it and it's wasteful of their time and compromises their hardware design and price. Removing unnecessary components allows them to allocate that budget elsewhere so they can improve the more important essential aspects like the display, internal storage and RAM.

 

That appears, on the surface, to be demonstrably false. Some manufacturers continued to include legacy ports and floppy drives for years after Apple stopped offering them, and the result was the opposite of the scenario you describe. The existence of ports did not result in demands for products that used them. Rather, demand for such devices waned until there was no point in providing connections for them. People naturally migrated to better solutions over time. One could even argue that such an approach is better, because users weren't forced into abrupt, unnecessary and and untimely replacement of working peripherals just because they upgraded their computer.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Thunderbolt is a form of PCIe and is a catch-all for all of these protocols. USB 3 + TB is all people will ever need and a future revision of TB supports USB 3 so even the USB 3 ports may not be necessary but IMO, it would be a good idea to stick with at least 1 USB port.

 

Thunderbolt is expensive to implement, USB3 is cheap. Thunderbolt is better, but only in a theoretical sense, since its advantages are beyond the needs of the vast majority of users. If USB3 is already 3X as much bandwidth as I can use, what's the advantage of having 10X as much? There is not a single application in my home for which I need Thunderbolt rather than just a less expensive USB3 solution.

 

On that basis I could argue that the inclusion of Thunderbolt diverts budget and design priorities away from where they will do the most good. I don't really believe that, but the logic is as valid as the argument for dropping all but the tech du jour.

 

I'm not saying I think Apple should or should not maintain support for legacy peripherals. I don't really care one way or the other. I'm just saying I don't buy the arguments that it would be "wrong" to do so.

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post #65 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

For an optical drive, portable Blu-Ray drives are cheap enough:

http://www.amazon.com/Blu-Ray-Player-External-Laptop-Burner/dp/B001TVAU0E
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SE-506BB-TSBD-External-Blu-ray/dp/B00AO1XFM0

And when they break, they can be replaced easily unlike an internal. As you pointed out, people eventually realise how little they used these things anyway. It's a bit of a panic when the need crops up but it's nothing that a drawer-dwelling add-on can't fix just like the dusty printer in the corner.

Absolutely, I agree - the last time I used the optical drive on my laptop, I was moving some old files over to an external drive because I knew the optical drive wouldn't be there on my next laptop! If it weren't for wanting to move those files, I can't remember when the last time I used the drive was.

Marvin, what's your opinion on the refurbished MacBook Pros from last year? On the Canada website, the new entry-level 13" is $1,399, while a 2013 model with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD is $1,279 - seems like the previous model is the much better deal, right? $120 less for double the disk space and it looks like all you're losing is ~5% processing power. With Apple, I probably have nothing to worry about with a refurbished product.

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/FE865LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macbook-pro-24ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5
post #66 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

That sounds elitist. I disagree with your assessment. I contend that my choice to use floppy disks has no affect on your computing experience whatsoever. I still respect and like you, I just think you're being too hard on average users.

It's not elitist, it's tough love. Consumers don't know what's good for them because for the most part they don't understand enough about technology and they're not expected to. You can tell a consumer that a solid state drive is physically more durable, 10x faster, much better random read/writes, fewer beachballs and so on but they will focus on the price tag. Unless Apple takes the HDD out and sells SSDs as standard, they're not going to know the difference because they won't experience it. You mentioned yourself that you preferred HDD capacity but had problems with playing back high bitrate footage and were impressed with the Mac Pro import times for audio content. SSD is necessary for those things. Consumers don't know what an IPS display is nor what effect certain amounts of RAM has so when Apple chooses the options for them, it's because they are doing that quality control without them having to and they can simply sit back and enjoy the better quality. You might say it's empowering to let the user decide but it means letting people prioritize on price and bulk sales of low quality items makes that the more cost-effective option for the seller, which lowers their output quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

That appears, on the surface, to be demonstrably false. Some manufacturers continued to include legacy ports and floppy drives for years after Apple stopped offering them, and the result was the opposite of the scenario you describe. The existence of ports did not result in demands for products that used them. Rather, demand for such devices waned until there was no point in providing connections for them.

As soon as any manufacturer chooses to drop support, they are doing the same thing as Apple, the only difference is in the volume of users affected by it. How do you know how many people use optical drives and how frequently or firewire ports or better still, how many will miss those things if they are taken away? If there was such a strong demand for internal optical drives and firewire, Apple would put them back in. They actually did put firewire back on one model, they removed it from the 2010 unibody white plastic Macbook and then put it back on the late 2010 unibody metal Macbook because at that point, there was no suitable replacement. Thunderbolt is a replacement for firewire so a dedicated port is unnecessary. The market data shows that optical use is dying down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

Thunderbolt is better, but only in a theoretical sense, since its advantages are beyond the needs of the vast majority of users. If USB3 is already 3X as much bandwidth as I can use, what's the advantage of having 10X as much? There is not a single application in my home for which I need Thunderbolt rather than just a less expensive USB3 solution.

USB 3 is a single protocol connection. Thunderbolt is bundling displayport and PCIe, that's not a theoretical advantage. You can't run anywhere near the same hardware over USB 3 e.g HDX card, Nitris DX, Red Rocket, fibre channel, a GPU even. Consumers might not need those things but they might need ethernet or firewire, which are also supported. They might need to output to a 4K TV one day. It doesn't really matter if they need it now or not, it's a catch-all port so whatever anyone does need, it has the ability to support it.

You have to realise that it's an external equivalent of the PCIe slots that you'd find useful in the old Mac Pro. They are channeling that functionality into a port the size of your fingertip instead of a slot the size of your hand and at the same time making it plug and play and output video and making it available to all computers even the Macbook Air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid 
Marvin, what's your opinion on the refurbished MacBook Pros from last year? On the Canada website, the new entry-level 13" is $1,399, while a 2013 model with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD is $1,279 - seems like the previous model is the much better deal, right? $120 less for double the disk space and it looks like all you're losing is ~5% processing power. With Apple, I probably have nothing to worry about with a refurbished product.

When Apple does minor updates to their machines like this time, it makes the refurbs really good value for money as you are pretty much getting the same machine. They haven't really changed much of the spec at all and their refurb process makes machines like new. New models do sometimes offer upgrades that aren't available on refurbs but it you find the spec that suits, you're just saving money.
post #67 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

You mentioned yourself that you preferred HDD capacity but had problems with playing back high bitrate footage and were impressed with the Mac Pro import times for audio content. SSD is necessary for those things. [...] You might say it's empowering to let the user decide but it means letting people prioritize on price and bulk sales of low quality items makes that the more cost-effective option for the seller, which lowers their output quality.

 

Let's say you're right, but then look at that particular example from the other side.

 

I can't AFFORD what a TB of storage costs from Apple. For me, the extra thousand bucks is a MUCH more serious issue than being able to play high-bitrate video. If Apple gave me the choice of slow-and-high-capacity in addition to fast-but-low-capacity and fast-but-expensive I might have been able to add another machine to the arsenal this year, and upgrade to SSD when either I have more disposable income or prices come down. In this example, I'd be forced to use external storage, which is just going to result in another HDD sale anyway!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

You have to realise that it's an external equivalent of the PCIe slots that you'd find useful in the old Mac Pro. They are channeling that functionality into a port the size of your fingertip instead of a slot the size of your hand and at the same time making it plug and play and output video and making it available to all computers even the Macbook Air.
 

Oh, I know. The beauty lies in its ability to adapt to whatever peripheral need arises.

 

I understand your point that people will do what's cheap and convenient. I agree, I just don't believe it's as destructive to the industry as a whole as you feel it is.

 

Besides, there will ALWAYS be some popular tech that's cheaper and more ubiquitous than the latest-and-greatest. Dropping it doesn't force adoption of the new approach, it just creates a market for stop-gaps. Apple dropped support for standard form-factor storage in favour of low-capacity, expensive storage that users can't upgrade with whatever is on sale this week and it hasn't slowed sales of SATA drives. They just live outside the chassis now where they're less convenient. Which is better: carrying a computer that's a couple mm thicker, or carrying a thinner computer AND an external drive? And a baggie full of TB-to-whatever adaptors...

 

Speaking of that external drive, how are users connecting them? A USB3 device is 15-25% less expensive than a Thunderbolt drive, and every computer on the planet has a port that will support it. Would it be a positive step for Apple to drop USB ports to force adoption of Thunderbolt? If not, how do we reconcile supporting THAT particular "inferior" technology while abandoning others? What are the criteria for determining which lesser technologies are worthy and which are not?

 

It ain't black 'n white.

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post #68 of 76
Earlier I wanted to reply to an excellent post from Lorin, but I didn't have the time. Then later on, while knowing I wouldn't be able to respond anyway, I read this excellent different view on the subject from Marvin, causing me to rethink Lorin's stance. Fortunately this went on, and still does.

I just want to say that you both make excellent points and I'm looking forward to more posts and views on the subject. With that, I 'thumb up the both of you'.

Thank you.
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How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
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post #69 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

If Apple gave me the choice of slow-and-high-capacity in addition to fast-but-low-capacity and fast-but-expensive I might have been able to add another machine to the arsenal this year, and upgrade to SSD when either I have more disposable income or prices come down. In this example, I'd be forced to use external storage, which is just going to result in another HDD sale anyway!

That's the exception though. When you have machines shipping by default with HDDs, it becomes a crutch that people lean on because it's there. You also shouldn't need 1TB external, just the difference between the internal and external. You might for example pick up the $1199 13" Air with 256GB and then add a $235 480GB SSD with a $15 enclosure, $1449 total, that's still $300 more than the 1TB HDD MBP with less storage but the drive performance and reliability is much higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

Apple dropped support for standard form-factor storage in favour of low-capacity, expensive storage that users can't upgrade with whatever is on sale this week and it hasn't slowed sales of SATA drives. They just live outside the chassis now where they're less convenient. Which is better: carrying a computer that's a couple mm thicker, or carrying a thinner computer AND an external drive? And a baggie full of TB-to-whatever adaptors...

For the person who needs the external, it may be less convenient but the internal drive is also faster and more reliable as would the external be if it's also an SSD. The choices that Apple makes are to benefit the majority. The majority of people are not going to need a 1TB HDD because they consume media and don't create it. To encourage the majority to carry bulkier, slower, less reliable laptops because they are cheaper when they have no need to is not the better option.

HDD sales have slowed down and the average selling price of a HDD is now around $50. That's why there's pretty much just two companies left making them - Seagate and WD. You have to keep in mind that every post-pc device uses solid state storage too and that's eroding sales of PCs with hard drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

Speaking of that external drive, how are users connecting them? A USB3 device is 15-25% less expensive than a Thunderbolt drive, and every computer on the planet has a port that will support it. Would it be a positive step for Apple to drop USB ports to force adoption of Thunderbolt? If not, how do we reconcile supporting THAT particular "inferior" technology while abandoning others? What are the criteria for determining which lesser technologies are worthy and which are not?

That may happen with a future revision of Thunderbolt as it has USB 3 compatibility marked as a feature in which case all you'd have to do is get a Thunderbolt to USB 3 cable. It could be a positive step as you can fit 2 TB ports in the space of 1 USB 3 port but USB is very widely used.

One good design choice with TB was using mini-dp ports, these were display outputs that would be on the machine anyway. USB isn't a display output and it can't be used as a proper output as it's not connected to the GPU.
post #70 of 76
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
There is only one gaming laptop that I would even consider and that's the new Razor Blade.

 

All RIGHT! It’s LAWSUIT TIME!

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #71 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

All RIGHT! It’s LAWSUIT TIME!

Why? It looks nothing like the current line of MacBooks, it's black.:D Besides, Apple only goes after companies that actually pose a threat. Not some tiny geek company.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #72 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I was hoping that Apple would use the revision to revisit their UK prices, but alas they have not. Apple’s pre-tax price of the entry-level 15” model is equivalent to $2265, and our high sales tax of 20% takes the final price to $2718.

Of course Apple can’t do anything about the tax, but a premium of $265 over the US price is not justifiable. I have defended Apple in the past, as it does cost more to do business here and some price premium is to be expected, but this is too much. It is cheaper for me to fly to the US, buy a MBP, and fly back again. Surely this can’t be right?

It seems to me that Apple have decided that the customers for their professional line are not price-sensitive, and have priced accordingly. To balance that, they are starting to get more aggressive on their consumer lines—note the price drops of the MacBook Air recently.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #73 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by caglassc View Post

Yarg! I just purchased a new 15" MacBook Pro a couple of weeks ago. Drives me nuts that I had the latest and greatest for two weeks......ugh.

Rest assured that you've made Apple happy with your purchase, and be content with that.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #74 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

 
I'm not saying Apple SHOULD do anything, unlike you.

What difference does it make to you if Apple builds a model you're not interested in?

I've never understood that mindset either. If something doesn't interest me, I just don't buy it. I don't opine that no one else should be able to buy it. If Apple decides to make a laptop with a click-wheel instead of a keyboard, how does that affect me? Why on Earth would I care one way or the other?

Because some of us here care about Apple's long-term welfare, due to being shareholders. If we think they put out stuff that is liable to lose them money, then that's a concern.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #75 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Because some of us here care about Apple's long-term welfare, due to being shareholders. If we think they put out stuff that is liable to lose them money, then that's a concern.

 

That's fair, but I don't know if it's really a concern. I understand that shareholders are constantly clamouring for growth... growth... GROWTH! What I don't understand is how having a model or two that sell more slowly adversely affects that? The only way it makes sense if Apple is already selling every single device they make as fast as they can make them, and slower-selling devices are using up parts and factory space that could be used for something that would sell through more quickly.

 

Unless that's the case now, I can't see a reason to dump the old 13" MacBook Pro if they're still tooled up for it and some people are still buying them.

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

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Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

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post #76 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

The only way it makes sense if Apple is already selling every single device they make as fast as they can make them, and slower-selling devices are using up parts and factory space that could be used for something that would sell through more quickly.

Unless that's the case now, I can't see a reason to dump the old 13" MacBook Pro if they're still tooled up for it and some people are still buying them.

Exactly. If you recall, when the rMBP was first launched, Apple kept the optical-drive equipped 15” model around, and that was then dropped with the third revision to the rMBP (October 2013). Clearly the sales of the non-retina version of the 15” model had reached that tipping point where Apple felt it was no longer viable. If Apple are keeping the optical drive 13” MBP there’s a reason - enough people are still buying them!
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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