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Russian government asks Apple to hand over source code amid spying concerns - Page 3

post #81 of 150

They know Apple won't give up the source.

 

This is just a prelude to escalating trade sanctions.   Russia will ban the iPhone under the pretext of security concerns instead of calling it tit for tat.

post #82 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

In this case you should thank the NSA for opening this huge can of worms (bag of hurt). If IOS, OSX, all Windows, and Android were, say Chinese, or Korean, or even Russian, and a similar revelation as the NSA spying was revealed, how much would you trust the aforementioned systems to run the government, business and personal computers of the USA? Not much I'd wager and you'd probably feel the request to peek at the source code was a fair request. 

Its always interesting to turn the tables in the name of perspective. I'm not saying they will, or should cave, but perhaps that the request is not without merit and the burden needs to be on Apple et al's shoulders to prove their case. 

Russia government has no right, without any proves they sound racists, why do you put Apple os in the same boat with that bloatware os? If Apple were in the same bed with the US government than literally Android, Windows shouldn't exist and Bill Gates he should be in prison for stealing

Rest in peace, Shamesung.

 

 

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post #83 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post
 

Apple won't be Russian to comply with this demand.

 






Yes, I know, that was bad.  

 

Agreed.  =p

post #84 of 150
iLaugh
post #85 of 150
FWIW there were reports back in 2008 that the Chinese demanded source code from every computer hardware manufacturer and hey had until May 2009 to comply. The Chinese used the phrase "obligatory accreditation system for IT security products" and explained it was "to prevent computer viruses taking advantage of software vulnerabilities and to shut out hackers". Failure to comply supposedly meant a ban from the China market. Thee was no further mention after 2008, at least until very recently. Microsoft had their offices in China raided just a day or so ago in a search for evidence MS was cooperating with US intelligence. I would assume that it included anything they could seize in the way of Microsoft software or operating code.
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #86 of 150

I didn't hear to many protests when countries here in the west were skeptical, and some (in my opinion correctly) banned the installation of Huawei telecom structure, not quite the same but still a fairly similar reaction which I can quite understand trying to see it from the other side.

post #87 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

I didn't hear to many protests when countries here in the west were skeptical, and some (in my opinion correctly) banned the installation of Huawei telecom structure, not quite the same but still a fairly similar reaction which I can quite understand trying to see it from the other side.

Can you elucidate?

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #88 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

While listenin' to great old records that I haven't heard in years ...


I finally broke down and bought a USB turntable for the Mac!
Tell us more.....? I assume you're able to Airplay it? Which brand/odel would you recommend?

Here ya' go ...


http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT-LP120-USB-Direct-Drive-Professional-USB/dp/B002S1CJ2Q


Prior to this, I had a B&O Beogram 8000 (two of then actually) ....

This appears every bit as good, if not better -- it weighs about 40 lbs 1smile.gif

Yes you can AirPlay (unfortunately not to my old AirPort Express attached to the B&O and its McIntosh speakers.

You can record directly into QuickTime ... It comes with Audacity software -- with which, I am experimenting. They have a workflow where you record a single stream of both sides, then go back and separate it into songs and provide the required metadata. In addition there are a lot of filters/features to clean up the audio quality.

I may not spend too much on cleaning up the audio, as my goal is to get a better quality copy from iTunes (when available) *

Aside: My late wife Lucy, loved to dance -- and she knew the steps to everything from a flea-hop (tarantella) to a schottische ... but she especially liked Latin American rhythms.

I just captured an album that my Dad played the first time I brought Lucy home to meet the parents -- Rhythms Of The South by Edmundo Ros. Lucy went crazy dancing' to all these songs ...

You've never lived if you haven't seen/heard Colonel Bogey (March From The Bridge On The River Kwai) played (and danced to) a Merengue beat --- Or Isle Of Capri as a cha cha :}

Ahh ... Sweet memories!


* I found that Apple usually will fesh out iTunes with songs that aren't in iTunes, but a user uploads to iCloud via iTunes Match -- for, example there is an old WWI song named: "Good Morning Mr. Zip Zip Zip" -- My Dad would sing this to me when he was home on leave from the Navy in WWII. Anyway I had a copy of the song that I uploaded to iCloud -- now the song is in the iTunes store.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #89 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

* I found that Apple usually will fesh out iTunes with songs that aren't in iTunes, but a user uploads to iCloud via iTunes Match -- for, example there is an old WWI song named: "Good Morning Mr. Zip Zip Zip" -- My Dad would sing this to me when he was home on leave from the Navy in WWII. Anyway I had a copy of the song that I uploaded to iCloud -- now the song is in the iTunes store.

 

iTunes Match is great, I've been subscribing for a couple of years now.

 

I don't even need to store my files on my drives anymore after I upload it to iTunes Match, as that is where my entire master library now resides. The entire library can easily be downloaded again anytime that I please.

post #90 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Can you elucidate?

Nice word Solips, had to consult may son who is studying for the SAT. Think what I wrote was pretty clear though! Still I believe the Russian position is mostly for propaganda reasons.

post #91 of 150

Russia is afraid of a sales ban.

Tough beans, Putin.

post #92 of 150
Krapserky are no geniuses and if they did why would Russia be asking? With Russia's recent behavior that sounds like a big NO from Apple. And Apple already told China the same so I don't think this is going to happen, AT ALL! They will get the same response most likely as they gave to China. And will probably do so for any other country that asks.
Russia and China should look at Fragmoid software which is open to let all hackers, thieves, spy's do whatever they like with that software. You want to find security problems that whole OS is a giant cesspool!
post #93 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post
You make a valid point. But you seem to assume there is some kind of political transparency equivalency between the Chinese and Russian systems and ours. For all our faults, I have far more trust in our system's potential to do right thing, and to correct itself when it doesn't, than theirs.

So do I, no question. But for anything in 'our system' to correct itself it needs to be constantly scrutinized, called out, and challenged. Not to challenge the powers that be to prove they are at all times serving the greater good is the worst kind of servility. One that mocks the idea of true democracy. 

post #94 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

Think what I wrote was pretty clear though!

Not to me. I'm not familiar with this Huawei deal so the use of countries, some, similar, and other make for an unclear statement. I literally have no idea to what you're referring or how it would be compared but I'm interested.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #95 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Not to me. I'm not familiar with this Huawei deal so the use of countries, some, similar, and other make for an unclear statement. I literally have no idea to what you're referring or how it would be compared but I'm interested.

 

Some western countries had banned Huawei equipment to be used by numerous western governments, due to the firm's alleged ties to the Chinese govt.

 

We all know how the Chinese spies and hacks, so this is completely understandable.

post #96 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilliam Bates View Post

Actually, the Russians have excellent coders – maybe not software developers, but hackers.

…and btw, we don't run the world anymore either  1hmm.gif

Well I never said the US ran the world.

"...maybe not software developers, but hackers..."

Which is even more of a reason why Apple should not let this happen.
post #97 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT View Post

Think what I wrote was pretty clear though!


Not to me. I'm not familiar with this Huawei deal so the use of countries, some, similar, and other make for an unclear statement. I literally have no idea to what you're referring or how it would be compared but I'm interested.

 


This was widely reported. There were Congressional hearing in the US, and if I recall right, all government agencies (and contractors) are now banned from doing business with Huawei. Will see if I can dig up a link.

Add: Not sure if a ban is in place, but here's the report of the Intelligence Committee (the exec summary is an easy, quick read): https://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/Huawei-ZTE%20Investigative%20Report%20(FINAL).pdf
post #98 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Some western countries had banned Huawei equipment to be used by numerous western governments, due to the firm's alleged ties to the Chinese govt.

We all know how the Chinese spies and hacks, so this is completely understandable.

Thanks. I agree the US should be concerned about that and Russia, China et al. should be concerned about that possibility.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #99 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by danv2 View Post

Yeah, so, if Apple pulls all their devices from Russia nobody will care, b/c most won't be able to afford an iOS device after all the sanctions go through. Hell, Apple won't be able to export iOS devices to Russia if even more sanctions are put out.

Seeing as the devices are manufactured and shipped from China, I don't believe the sanctions would change the retail price of the iPhone in Russia. China gets along with Russia very well.
post #100 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Not to me. I'm not familiar with this Huawei deal so the use of countries, some, similar, and other make for an unclear statement. I literally have no idea to what you're referring or how it would be compared but I'm interested.

Huawei was banned from the tender list in US and Australia for a national telecommunication system, and was scrutinized in other counties (an hopefully banned, i don't know), because obviously basing sensitive telecommunication on Chinese equipment may provide for an opening to monitor the communication. For the same reason, given the nature of my job, I am not allowed to use a memory stick at all, and if specifically given one I have to hand it over to our security department. The same goes for phones, we use iPhones because, except for Blackberry, my employer is not allowed to use them. Industrial and national espionage, is for real, and is conducted by both the good and the bad side, whatever side you are on, even if there is a lot of paranoia out there.

post #101 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shadow View Post
 
Seeing as the devices are manufactured and shipped from China, I don't believe the sanctions would change the retail price of the iPhone in Russia. China gets along with Russia very well.

Neither the Chinese government nor any Chinese manufacturer make decisions regarding where Apple products are sold or shipped. Apple owns the devices and only they decide where they are shipped, within the approved list of US Export Control of course, and where not restricted by any trade embargoes that may be imposed by a foreign government.

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post #102 of 150
Originally Posted by RalphMouth View Post
 

This raises an interesting question for me: If the iOS source code was stolen by hackers and released to the public, how much damage (if any) would that do to iOS security?

 

Depends on whether it includes iOS 7 or iOS 8.  And whether or not the thumbprint data hash code is part of iOS source or part of the Touch ID firmware.  (Especially the algorithm that identifies a Secure Enclave's ID as belonging to its specific matching iPhone hardware ID.)

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post #103 of 150

The Russian government seems to want to know ALL information. What's interesting is that Snowden said he hadn't given up all of the information he had, that he was keeping some back as leverage to those who might try to harm him. I assume KGB President Putin & associates have really been nice to him in order that he reveal lots of info regarding NSA & the rest of the world. Snowden may claim he doesn't have info on Russia, but I can't believe that President Putin would let that go. Based on polygraph & then escalating levels of interviews & interrogations, the Russians may extract the info from Snowden, even that which he wanted to 'hold back.' If not sooner, he will be leveraged just prior to his Russian 'welcome' visa expiring.

 

I believe this demand from Apple is push back from political pressure & embargoes over the Ukraine issues, even though it may have been ongoing requests from others.

post #104 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

So do I, no question. But for anything in 'our system' to correct itself it needs to be constantly scrutinized, called out, and challenged. Not to challenge the powers that be to prove they are at all times serving the greater good is the worst kind of servility. One that mocks the idea of true democracy. 
Agree. But we may disagree on the best way to go about that.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #105 of 150
Right!, the country that just shot down a civilian airliner... Is interested in protecting civilian privacy.
post #106 of 150
Lol years ago the US government wanted the source code to make some " tweaks " on the iOS devices they were using for military ....Steve Jobs didn't give them anything ... so Russia is asking for it now ?? lol good luck.
post #107 of 150
Putin is weak because he fears the average citizen. Gee, what a surprise.
post #108 of 150
Sadly, some of you appear to under-informed. Mr Snowden has performed one of the greatest acts of public service we've seen in at least a generation. The only reason he's stuck in Russia is because the U.S. State Dept revoked his passport during transit -- a(nother) violation of international law by the USA.

As for Russia's *suggestions*, Apple would certainly withdraw from that troubled country than comply. The Russian gov't is a criminal enterprise masquerading as a kleptocracy.
post #109 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Neither the Chinese government nor any Chinese manufacturer make decisions regarding where Apple products are sold or shipped. Apple owns the devices and only they decide where they are shipped, within the approved list of US Export Control of course, and where not restricted by any trade embargoes that may be imposed by a foreign government.

I believe that was my point... You stated it better and more thorough. 1smile.gif
post #110 of 150

My gut tells me that this is not right and that the potential for bad far outweighs any possible good. 

post #111 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post
 

I wouldn't count on that.  Perhaps other governments' spying transgressions don't hit the worldwide news quite so readily.  When you control the media, where is the whistleblower going to tell his tale (without getting shot and killed)?


Errr, somewhere around 300 Russian journalists have been killed since 1993 for 'telling tales' that some people would rather weren't heard.

 

I think it quite interesting that the Russian government just recently announced a competition within Russia for a way to identify Tor users.

http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/russia-publicly-joins-war-on-tor-privacy-with-111000-bounty/

post #112 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

Buawhahaha! That's funny Russia. I think Apple would sooner remove all their products from your country first.

True...F.O. Russia. The entire iOS devices sold in Russia is probably less than that in California alone. Who gives the sh.t about Russia? By the time Cooks gives Russia the source code, Putin will give it out to all Russian companies for free.

post #113 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

...Allah?

 

The only one true religion is that of the Cult Of Mac.

 

If you value privacy you can now set DuckDuckGo as your default search engine in iOS and OS X.
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post #114 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
 

 

The only one true religion is that of the Cult Of Mac.

 

I'm pretty much anti all religion, but that is one religion that I can believe in!:lol:

post #115 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
 

 

The only one true religion is that of the Cult Of Mac.

 

I'm pretty much anti all religion, but that is one religion that I can believe in!:lol:

I have an idea. Let's revert to law of the jungle.

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post #116 of 150

The Russians learn how the U.S. can track iOS apps, but can't reverse engineer it themselves because they can't figure out the source code. Solution? Steal the source code from Apple. Simple.

post #117 of 150

Firefox for phones, Ubuntu for phones, and more GNU/Linux OSs. will function just fine in the Kremlin and China. It will just take a while for enough manufacturers to adopt their systems. This will give a leg up for Android.

 

If Apple wants to survive in those nations it had better become an open source provider. Why shouldn't it? Apple makes money on hardware right? That is what is always said here so often. If India ever has the same concerns Apple will make their code available to those governments or make its software open source. You can bet that three gigantic nations (China, Russia, India) with billions of potential customers at stake will have a huge effect on that decision.

 

Open source programs lead to a much safer environment for all of us. Everybody should embrace it and encourage Apple to release the code.

post #118 of 150
Originally Posted by Gilliam Bates View Post
…and btw, we don't run the world anymore either  :\

 

Who says?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #119 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I found that Apple usually will fesh out iTunes with songs that aren't in iTunes, but a user uploads to iCloud via iTunes Match...Anyway I had a copy of the song that I uploaded to iCloud -- now the song is in the iTunes store.

Is that even legal? Are they scanning for copyright protection before making it available on The Store? Well, they most likely are, otherwise they would be suit day after day.

I wonder what happens to all recordings people make at concerts if uploaded to iTunes Match: they are often taken down from the Internet by the artists (stating copyright infringement); I wonder if Apple is asked to do the same.

Anyone uploaded live recordings to iTunes Match? Still available to you, or taken down? If still up, for sale as well?
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post #120 of 150
Makes sense. With how much the NSA is in the news, it would be a prudent thing for any government to request.
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