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New Apple TV 'stalls' because of cable companies & content deals, likely not arriving until 2015...

post #1 of 94
Thread Starter 
Apple still has a major revamp of its set-top box in the works, but the next-generation Apple TV may not arrive until next year, thanks to cable companies that are "dragging their heels," according to a new report.


Camera-equipped Apple TV concept via Brightcove.


Details on the alleged delay for the new Apple TV were reported on Wednesday by The Information, which cited Apple engineers that are working on the device. Apple's plans are said to have "stalled" thanks to cable companies, particularly the complications of the Time Warner-Comcast merger that awaits federal approval.

For their part, cable companies are said to be pointing the finger at Apple, accusing the company of biting off "more than it can chew." Rights issues are said to be the main problem for cable companies trying to work out a deal.

"All in all, behind the scenes, everyone is pointing fingers and it remains unclear if and when Apple's grand vision for consolidating all video watching, along with apps and gaming, might see the light of day," reporters Jessica E. Lessin and Amir Efrati wrote.

Earlier reports had suggested that a revamped Apple TV set-top box was on track for release this year. Wednesday's report suggests that was Apple's intent, but snags in negotiations behind the scenes for content may have prompted the company to delay its launch past the lucrative holiday shopping season.

Apple TV


Previously, analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities said that a new Apple TV with motion controls would play a "key role" for the company this year. He had predicted that the upgraded hardware would arrive this fall, leveraging the technology Apple acquired from its acquisition of PrimeSense, which also powered the tech behind Microsoft's first-generation Xbox Kinect gaming peripheral.

Though cable companies apparently privately pointed the blame at Apple, The Information's report states that providers are also wary of making deals with the company, seeing it as a potential threat to their established control of content in the home.

"Cable companies remain reluctant to leave an opening for Apple, which they fear could displace them as the brand that customers associate with television delivery," Wednesday's report states. "And they also remain committed to their own new devices and experiences."

In the meantime, Apple has steadily been adding new content options for its $99 media streamer. Just this week, new channels for Fox Now and CNBC were made available, joining other recent additions of ABC News, PBS Kids, AOL On, and Willow.
post #2 of 94
So there's no way for Apple to update the ATV without these content deals worked out? Or are they sitting on an ATV with new/better UI, App Store gaming capabilities waiting for these content deals to materialize?

Perhaps Cook needs to hire someone specific to take over Apple's TV plans. Someone from the industry that will be able to get deals done. Eddy Cue doesn't seem to be the guy that can get this stuff done.
Edited by Rogifan - 7/30/14 at 12:19pm
post #3 of 94
I'm really tired of this....,,
post #4 of 94
Uggghhh...cable devices.... no one wants a cable companies device.
post #5 of 94
Once one company finally figures out how to effectively bypass the cable companies, they will be dead to rights.

All they are doing by stalling with Apple is squeezing out the last little bit of profit they can before it is all turned on its head (just like music)
post #6 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So there's no way for Apple to update the ATV without these content deals worked out?

The original Apple TV almost failed because of the lack of content deals. This is important for this device to succeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CustomTB View Post

Uggghhh...cable devices.... no one wants a cable companies device.

We don't, but since those that also have cable TV in an area are very likely to also get their internet from their cable company that means Apple has to work with them or risk being throttled, or worse, shut out, like what happened with the original Google TV. This is a very tricky nut to crack.

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post #7 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So there's no way for Apple to update the ATV without these content deals worked out? Or are they sitting on an ATV with new/better UI, App Store gaming capabilities waiting for these content deals to materialize?

Perhaps Cook needs to hire someone specific to take over Apple's TV plans. Someone from the industry that will be able to get deals done. Eddy Cue doesn't seem to be the guy that can get this stuff done.

Perhaps he already did hire that someone? Maybe someone who has experience negotiating in the music business would be able to do something similar in visual entertainment? I don't know if that's true, I'm just speculating.
post #8 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The original Apple TV almost failed because of the lack of content deals. This is important for this device to succeed.
We don't, but since those that also have cable TV in an area are very likely to also get their internet from their cable company that means Apple has to work with them or risk being throttled, or worse, shut out, like what happened with the original Google TV. This is a very tricky nut to crack.
Yes content is important. But there are a lot of improvements Apple could make even if these deals aren't worked out yet. The ATV is in real need of an interface overhaul. It needs better navigation and search (voice would be nice). It needs an App Store. It would be really great if you could enter your cable provider credentials once rather than having to enter them for each individual app. There's plenty Apple could do to keep ATV competitive with other streaming boxes like Roku and Fire TV.
post #9 of 94

"Previously, analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities said that a new Apple TV with motion controls would play a "key role" for the company this year. He had predicted that the upgraded hardware would arrive this fall, leveraging the technology Apple acquired from its acquisition of PrimeSense, which also powered the tech behind Microsoft's first-generation Xbox Kinect gaming peripheral."

 

So Ming is WRONG again.....

post #10 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post

Perhaps he already did hire that someone? Maybe someone who has experience negotiating in the music business would be able to do something similar in visual entertainment? I don't know if that's true, I'm just speculating.
That's what Apple needs. There are things Apple might have been able to do just because of Steve. And I'm not sure Eddy (or Tim) have the same ability. I like that Apple is apparently thinking big in this space but I hope they don't neglect their existing product while going after this grander vision.
post #11 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

So Ming is WRONG again.....

 

Or, maybe what what he described is exactly what Apple had planned, but negotiations didn't go the way they expected. We'll never know.

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post #12 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

That's what Apple needs. There are things Apple might have been able to do just because of Steve. And I'm not sure Eddy (or Tim) have the same ability. I like that Apple is apparently thinking big in this space but I hope they don't neglect their existing product while going after this grander vision.

I guess what I'm trying to (maybe too subtly) imply is that perhaps this is part of what Jimmy Iovine will help with?
post #13 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post

I guess what I'm trying to (maybe too subtly) imply is that perhaps this is part of what Jimmy Iovine will help with?
I'll have to search for the quote but I think Jimmy specifically said he's not getting involved in content outside of music.

EDIT: here's what Iovine said:

http://recode.net/2014/05/28/meet-apples-latest-hire-and-apples-media-boss-jimmy-iovine-and-eddy-cue-come-to-code-liveblog/

Peter KafkaMAY 28, 20148:48 PM
Kara: Jimmy, what are you going to do about TV?

Peter KafkaMAY 28, 20148:48 PM
Iovine: I’ve got an enormous job with music. I’m not going anywhere near TV.
Edited by Rogifan - 7/30/14 at 12:52pm
post #14 of 94
Go ahead and open your HBO-style studio division, Apple. That's why you paid big bucks for Jimmy Iovine, isn't it?
post #15 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy Dog View Post

Go ahead and open your HBO-style studio division, Apple. That's why you paid big bucks for Jimmy Iovine, isn't it?

http://recode.net/2014/05/28/meet-apples-latest-hire-and-apples-media-boss-jimmy-iovine-and-eddy-cue-come-to-code-liveblog/

Peter KafkaMAY 28, 20148:48 PM
Kara: Jimmy, what are you going to do about TV?

Peter KafkaMAY 28, 20148:48 PM
Iovine: I’ve got an enormous job with music. I’m not going anywhere near TV.
post #16 of 94

Yeah Comcast buying TimeWarner put a big nail in that coffin that is for sure. I personally believe that the deal with TW and Apple was part of the reason Comcast over paid for TW. Comcast did not want this to happen, where Apple could deliver TW content to Comcast customer via a Comcast Internet connection.

 

Once consumers have the option to consumer content a la carte, Comcast and other cable operators will be just a big dumb fat pipe.

 

I have 4 choose for video content unlike most people in the US, I have Comcast, FIOS, DirecTV and Dish and even with 4 you can not get any of them give a great deal. There is only so much they can do since the Content owners force bundle deals, Like the Discovery Network, you getting all their channels whether watch them or not.

 

South Park puts it all in perspective.

 

 


Edited by Maestro64 - 7/30/14 at 1:03pm
post #17 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post


Perhaps he already did hire that someone? Maybe someone who has experience negotiating in the music business would be able to do something similar in visual entertainment? I don't know if that's true, I'm just speculating.

 

Enter Jimmy Iovine

post #18 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'll have to search for the quote but I think Jimmy specifically said he's not getting involved in content outside of music.

EDIT: here's what Iovine said:

http://recode.net/2014/05/28/meet-apples-latest-hire-and-apples-media-boss-jimmy-iovine-and-eddy-cue-come-to-code-liveblog/

Peter KafkaMAY 28, 20148:48 PM
Kara: Jimmy, what are you going to do about TV?

Peter KafkaMAY 28, 20148:48 PM
Iovine: I’ve got an enormous job with music. I’m not going anywhere near TV.

Good memory, I missed that (or forgot about it, I'm not sure). That's unfortunate, though, as from what I hear about the guy, he seems like he might have the negotiating ability. He also seems like he'd be pretty blunt about it: "Throw in with us or it won't be long until you're under", sort of thing.
post #19 of 94

Meh.

 

Cut the cable some time ago. They can keep their content.

 

I go over the air (mostly dreck, occasionally good stuff) and ATV/Netflix. Get internet access through phone company DSL. Slow on paper (~5 mbit/sec) yet somehow Netflix never stutters for me.

 

Hmm.

post #20 of 94

We start dropping cable TV and they will raise the rates for internet so high that nobody can afford it. They've raised my rates three times in the past year without even a notice.

If I switch to DSL I lose my 30MB DL and suffer the fact that they throttle DSL after 5GIGs of use.

 

I'm 51 and can't remember the last time I left my house without my cell phone or the last time I went all day without opening my laptop and searching the net or checking emails.

 

 

I think it's time for me to disconnect when I find myself posting about this crap.

post #21 of 94
Cable TV + ISP package will scupper any chance of progress in digital media delivery.

If US ISPs are already locked down then perhaps Apple should focus on delivering US content to the rest of the world or rest of the world content to the US? Or perhaps they should partner with a UFB network and start delivering naked broadband in the US.

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Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #22 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
 

Yeah Comcast buying TimeWarner put a big nail in that coffin that is for sure. I personally believe that the deal with TW and Apple was part of the reason Comcast over paid for TW. Comcast did not want this to happen, where Apple could deliver TW content to Comcast customer via a Comcast Internet connection.

 

Once consumers have the option to consumer content a la carte, Comcast and other cable operators will be just a big dumb fat pipe.

 

I have 4 choose for video content unlike most people in the US, I have Comcast, FIOS, DirecTV and Dish and even with 4 you can not get any of them give a great deal. There is only so much they can do since the Content owners force bundle deals, Like the Discovery Network, you getting all their channels whether watch them or not.

 

 

I've worked since late 2005 in the area of media rights management.   Many of the cable networks as well as other organizations are clients of the enterprise software we produce to manage this.

 

The ISPs themselves, like Time-Warner, Comcast, RCN, etc. actually have quite limited options in terms of what they can offer as they don't own the content (although their parent companies do in some cases).

 

Even the cable channels themselves don't have 100% of the rights and can't necessarily offer Apple rights even if they wanted to.   That's not true in all cases, but it's true in many cases.  In addition, they are currently getting big dollars from the major ISPs and they're not going to endanger that, although there's not much the ISPs can do about it if they did.  The cable networks actually do have the upper hand as we've seen in recent contractual disputes.  

 

The contractual rights to the programs are not simple - they're actually quite complex and since Apple is not an ISP, every contract will have to be renegotiated for AppleTV unless Apple offers it in conjunction with an ISP (except where the cable network owns 100% of the rights in all media, in all territories, in perpetuity) and the problem the cable networks have with that is that it opens up the entire contract for renegotiation with the content providers, so they avoid that at all costs.  For them to think that's worth it, Apple would have to prove that they're going to dominate the market.   So far, they haven't done that. 

 

This isn't just a matter of cable companies not understanding the future or otherwise being obnoxious. 

post #23 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Yes content is important. But there are a lot of improvements Apple could make even if these deals aren't worked out yet. The ATV is in real need of an interface overhaul. It needs better navigation and search (voice would be nice). It needs an App Store. It would be really great if you could enter your cable provider credentials once rather than having to enter them for each individual app. There's plenty Apple could do to keep ATV competitive with other streaming boxes like Roku and Fire TV.

This!

 

We don't need content deals!  Work on that for 2015!

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post #24 of 94

IMO, Apple needs to open its own TV studio if they are really serious about TV. 

 

Then negotiate deals with the NFL, NBA, and MLB.

post #25 of 94
I really don't care anymore. I'm sick of the bickering back and forth. There's plenty of content to release new hardware.
post #26 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post
 

This!

 

We don't need content deals!  Work on that for 2015!

 

Problem is Apple wants to bring it all out at the same time and blow away the competition. 

How successful would iPod be without iTunes?

Or iPad without AppStore?

 

If Apple releases all their UI improvements this year and no new content the other players will simply copy their UI.

post #27 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Enter Jimmy Iovine
Did you see what I posted? Jimmy Iovine specifically said he's focused on music, not TV deals. He's not Apple TV's savior.
post #28 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Problem is Apple wants to bring it all out at the same time and blow away the competition. 
How successful would iPod be without iTunes?
Or iPad without AppStore?

If Apple releases all their UI improvements this year and no new content the other players will simply copy their UI.
I wish Apple would copy other's UI because the current ATV UI sucks. I'm sure they have cool stuff in the lab but it would be nice for us to be able to experience it. There's plenty Apple can do to improve ATV without grand content deals in place.
post #29 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So there's no way for Apple to update the ATV without these content deals worked out? Or are they sitting on an ATV with new/better UI, App Store gaming capabilities waiting for these content deals to materialize?

Perhaps Cook needs to hire someone specific to take over Apple's TV plans. Someone from the industry that will be able to get deals done. Eddy Cue doesn't seem to be the guy that can get this stuff done.

I thought of the same thing. This article failed.

post #30 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Problem is Apple wants to bring it all out at the same time and blow away the competition. 

How successful would iPod be without iTunes?

Or iPad without AppStore?

 

If Apple releases all their UI improvements this year and no new content the other players will simply copy their UI.

They can keep the same UI for now- I'm ok with that.  Just give me:

 

1- Hardware- A7, Wireless AC, Bluetooth LTE, 16gb storage, 1gb ram

2- App Store.  Let me say that again.  App Store.  I can download games, it gives a standard that allows content providers to be able to develop for- which means content will be on their faster and anyone can do it.  Vudu, BBC, Amazon, etc- as long as it's under the correct guidelines.  Then allow me to delete (not hide) the Apps I don't use.

 

There are other things I'd love- but I don't need.  Media hub, dvr, etc.  But I just want a box that is made in 2014- not May of 2012.  This update cycle is beyond ridiculous now.

 

Is this really complicated?  They can wow me with the revolutionary content deals and UI next time- We're running on outdated hardware.  I don't need CBS to allow me to buy an individual station.  I just want to be able to sign into a damned hotel's wifi.

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post #31 of 94
Quote:
Details on the alleged delay for the new Apple TV were reported on Wednesday by The Information, which cited Apple engineers that are working on the device

 

Looks like Tim Cooke is going to be putting on his "Ass Kicking" boots shortly.

post #32 of 94
Baseless article!
For one... Apple does not announce release date to engineers working on projects. Some dont even know how their projects and work are relevant to the big picture!
They have deadlines.. But only the top tier management knows whats scheduled for release and when .
post #33 of 94
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... the next-generation Apple TV may not arrive until next year, thanks to cable companies that are "dragging their heels," ...

 

There are dozens of incumbents in the TV industry, and they're all deeply entrenched, and they're all going to fight tooth and nail against their inevitable fate.  The TV industry will probably end up like the music industry.  Mostly online sales and rentals, mostly internet-based content delivery, with iTunes (and possibly other online content stores) taking a large slice of the profits.

 

I think it'll take years and years for Apple to disrupt TV as we know it.  First, the TV industry has to experience either 1. some kind of crisis like rampant MP3 music piracy in the '90s, and/or 2. some kind of quantum leap in technology (e.g. 4K UHDTV) that will shake up the consumer space.  It might take a decade or more for both of those to happen.

 

Of course, in the meantime, Apple has their hands in all manner of industries.  And they've received patents for quite a few of their disruptive technologies.  I think Apple's disruptions might happen more or less in this order:

 

- Personal wearable electronics (starting with "iWatch")

- Health monitoring systems in the general health care industry (again starting with "iWatch")

- Mobile purchases with iPhone e-wallet feature (maybe starting with iPhone "6")

- Retail sales with an EasyPay turnkey system, self-checkout, payment via Touch ID + iTunes

  (and possibly deals with Visa, AmEx, and other credit card companies and banks)

- In-car nav / entertainment / diagnostics / lock+unlock / security control through CarPlay, Siri Eyes Free, etc.

- Home automation, maybe with a next-gen Apple TV as the "home automation hub"

  (including, of course, hotel check in+out / door lock+unlock with iPhone, Touch ID, and iOS 8)

- TV with iTunes sales, rental, live streaming (but no, probably not an Apple-branded television set)

 

I think we'll see Apple hardware continuing to move upscale to avoid becoming commoditized.  Hiring luxury brand executives like Dre and Iovine (Beats), Ahrendts (Burberry), Deneve (Yves Saint Laurent), Pruniaux (Tag Heuer) didn't just happen by coincidence.  As great as Jony Ive is, maybe he's out of his depth when it comes to designing for the high-end luxury market.  Bauhaus only reaches into the upper-middle range.  (Sapphire screen 5mm-at-thickest-point 32" iMac, anybody?)

 

And Apple will also need to integrate their infrastructure into all manner of industries, starting with enterprise mobile (through IBM).  Eventually, I think Apple's goal must be to earn more money from software and services and content than from hardware.  Moving their hardware upscale will keep their margins and profitability up, but will limit their total market share and revenue.  Integrating (profitable) infrastructure technologies into various industries, and relentlessly evolving those technologies, will guarantee a long-term revenue stream.


Edited by SockRolid - 7/30/14 at 2:29pm

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post #34 of 94
Stall and delay after stall and delay. Rumors of no sapphire on iPhone 6, late arrival of iwatch and now ATV. Depressing week for those of us excited about this years releases...if of course the rumors are to be believed.
post #35 of 94

+

post #36 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
 

 First, the TV industry has to experience either 1. some kind of crisis...

 

Comcast is not the "TV industry", but I think they're the main entity blocking progress now. How we allowed the biggest TV-delivery company to become the biggest internet provider is beyond me- and that inherent logjam is going to take a while to work through, I fear. Personally, I'm hoping that Comcast starts seeing an accelerating loss of subscribers willing to pay $150+/mo for sports plus 200 channels of crap.

post #37 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So there's no way for Apple to update the ATV without these content deals worked out? Or are they sitting on an ATV with new/better UI, App Store gaming capabilities waiting for these content deals to materialize?

Perhaps Cook needs to hire someone specific to take over Apple's TV plans. Someone from the industry that will be able to get deals done. Eddy Cue doesn't seem to be the guy that can get this stuff done.

Supposedly Apple bought Beats for Jimmy Iovine's deal making prowess and industry gravitas. If Apple TV's UI aggregates TV shows by genre instead of channel or tier, as I imagine it does, then you can imagine how scary and disruptive it is for the cable industry. Who profits from this disruption, Apple or the cable companies? That's the hangup!

post #38 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Supposedly Apple bought Beats for Jimmy Iovine's deal making prowess and industry gravitas. If Apple TV's UI aggregates TV shows by genre instead of channel or tier, as I imagine it does, then you can imagine how scary and disruptive it is for the cable industry. Who profits from this disruption, Apple or the cable companies? That's the hangup!
Jimmy says he's not going near TV so Cook and Cue need a different savior for ATV.
post #39 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I wish Apple would copy other's UI because the current ATV UI sucks. I'm sure they have cool stuff in the lab but it would be nice for us to be able to experience it. There's plenty Apple can do to improve ATV without grand content deals in place.

 

Which UI do you like?

post #40 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

IMO, Apple needs to open its own TV studio if they are really serious about TV. 

 

Then negotiate deals with the NFL, NBA, and MLB.

I've been saying for awhile that I would like to see Apple create an urban WiFi access throughout the US that was exclusive to Apple customers. They could deliver iTunes content free of carrier charges to Apple devices. You pay for the content but not for the broadband. As long as you are on an Apple device you are free to surf the Internet too.

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