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post #41 of 67

Well that was a problem when the first iPhone came out with only GPRS network. Now 4G LTE is even faster then my god damn ADSL Home network. (Sigh). In the next 2 - 3 years the world will move to LTE-A, micro-cell, VoLTE, and hopefully pCell. The mobile network has never been better.

Of course this is mainly a Asia and EU perspective where LTE deployment are ahead of US. But it is not like US mobile network aren't improving. And we are very likely to see the first LTE only network in the next few years, when the cost to support 2G and 3G users become a burden for Teleco ( 3G likely to come off first ).

post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


Only connect to sites that use HTTPS, and make sure your email accounts are all using SSL (a good idea period, no matter where your machine is). If your email provider doesn't support SSL, the switch providers! Yes, it's that serious.


It's good to get people thinking about this, but if people don't understand that this is only one part of the problem, then the unintended consequence of (unqualified) advice like this can be that people will think their communications are private if they just secure the connection from their client to their ISP/provider.

It's important that people understand every email from yahoo to gmail, or from msn to comcast, or between any two different providers travels completely in the clear. They are almost certainly all read and stored by various gov agencies, but also by other states (China, etc) and various well-funded malicious groups that will sniff for anything that might give clues to passwords or otherwise be profitable for them. This is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

But worse than that IMO, and this is really big-picture stuff, is that people want to make sure their communications are secure from prying eyes, and yet, if you use gmail or hotmail or any of these "free" services, nothing you type is private from the providers. Every word of every email is read, analyzed and stored indefinitely. Even if their purpose is not strictly dishonorable, it is indisputable that they are creating detailed psychological profiles of their users for profit, and there are virtually no regulations about how that data will be used, stored, sold or made public in the future. Some people kinda sorta understand this, but few people understand how deep it goes and bother to consider the downside to what it means to live under such intense surveillance over a lifetime. It's not just email, but email is a huge chunk of it.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #43 of 67
Free WIFI = can see what you are surfing. Thats the trade off.
post #44 of 67
Originally Posted by vaporland, whose username I won’t be editing, as that would be endlessly juvenile View Post
Perhaps this would appeal to your sense of generosity

 

Or, you know, you could answer the question instead of posting completely irrelevant nonsense.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I get the idea, but why should I pay to allow John Q. Public to mooch my Internet speed?

So that Tallest Q. Skil can do the same whenever he goes out galavanting.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant NorCal View Post

Free WIFI = can see what you are surfing. Thats the trade off.

Unless you have a VPN.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Unless you have a VPN.

OTx2: I've always been surprised Google has never offered a free VPN to secure public WiFi as well any private network where the user doesn't want their data tracked by other nodes on the network. They could not only see what you do when you go to google.com but have access to all your other traffic through the VPN, save for SSL to sites within the VPN. This would give a lot more data to pull from and could even offer targeted ads if you don't want to pay a small usage fee, like other "free" VPN services have done. This seems like a gold mine of data and I'd gladly let Google see what I'm posting here to AppleInsider instead of someone at a WiFi hotspot.


PS: I would also gladly pay for AI to offer a paid SSL version of the site.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #48 of 67
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post
Jump on my case, ban me, close my account - I really don't care.

 

That’s evident by your long-term dislike of Apple.

 

Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
So that Tallest Q. Skil can do the same whenever he goes out galavanting.


I threw out my back while gallivanting a few years ago. Never again. I now limit my exploits to just wing-dinging, shindiging, and hootinannification. It’s a real foofaraw, I’ll tell you.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #49 of 67
But did Steve want it to work only on Apple products? Just sayin?
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
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Where's the new Apple TV?
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post #50 of 67
It's a shame Google is the only entity out there right now making a significant dent in the high speed
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

But did Steve want it to work only on Apple products? Just sayin?

Oh, who knows at this point?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #51 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

But did Steve want it to work only on Apple products? Just sayin?

Actually, you're just asking, at least as indicated by your question mark, but it does reveal your true intention to belittle Apple and Jobs at every turn by suggesting that the intent was to exclude any product that doesn't use Apple's networking protocols despite Apple having dropped AppleTalk a very long time ago and Jobs stating during the 1997 WWDC Q&A that Apple should adopt whatever is best in a question about "being different" and specifically using TCP/IP as an example.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #52 of 67
This was a fascinating post.

Everything in this first paragraph I completely agree with. It's analysis, and at least IMO your analysis is generally quite good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

OTx2: I've always been surprised Google has never offered a free VPN to secure public WiFi as well any private network where the user doesn't want their data tracked by other nodes on the network. They could not only see what you do when you go to google.com but have access to all your other traffic through the VPN, save for SSL to sites within the VPN. This would give a lot more data to pull from and could even offer targeted ads if you don't want to pay a small usage fee, like other "free" VPN services have done. This seems like a gold mine of data


But your conclusion is a complete 180 from mine! Of course, the next part is opinion, not analysis, and it's understandable that people have different opinions. Still, it was almost humorous to me to see just how opposite your conclusion was from mine.

Quote:
... and I'd gladly let Google see what I'm posting here to AppleInsider instead of someone at a WiFi hotspot.


I would much rather someone at an open WiFi see what I'm posting on AI or any random public site.

1) Unless I'm also posting on another site tied to my real-world identity, during the same visit, without SSL, they have no way to tie that data together. It's no different than anyone else reading my post here. Losing credentials is another story, but in any case, I understand how to protect myself in those situations.

2) There is no way to similarly protect yourself from google, and they have waaaaay too much personal information about most people already. It's just wrong. As in: arguably immoral. For those people who are adults and have knowingly opted to give google the keys to their brain, oh well, that's their choice. But google also gathers data on millions of people who choose to not use their services, and there is currently nothing that anyone can do about it. They are unregulated and out of control.

The gmail class action lawsuit has been denied "class action" status for technical reasons, but "Judge Koh denied Google’s motion to dismiss the case in September, however, when she failed to accept the argument that anyone sending an e-mail to a Gmail user has implicitly consented to Google scanning the e-mail’s content for purposes of ad feeds. http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/digest/jurisdiction/district-courts/privacy-class-action-against-google-denied

This lawsuit will not go away, but it will morph. It's not just people sending email to gmail users (foolishly thinking it's a private conversation) but the other way around. You can be just sitting around minding your own business and have a friend send you an email that says: "Hey Joe, happy birthday! Hope your ((horrifying medical condition)) is getting better! -Sam" In a few seconds, through absolutely no action of your own, you've now been tagged as a close friend of Sam, a victim of a specific medical condition, and your birthday is there to help confirm your identity (along with whatever else other people have sent you). This particular practice should be illegal, as you have never even implicitly given permission for that data to be released, let alone snarfed up and analyzed.
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post #53 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

But did Steve want it to work only on Apple products? Just sayin?

If it did, that could solve a lot of the security problems; make iOS and Mac devices provide AppleID credentials (linked to a credit card for identity verification) to get access to the free Wi-Fi that is provided by guest Apple Airport routers (potentially auth could also use the iCloud control panel on Windows).

 

Could also limit access on the router by applying bandwidth and data caps, with parental filters and blocking websites that figure lowly in Trust tests, or are known providers of illegal material, all synced back to whitelists held at Apple.

 

That could be a whole new element to iCloud - buy into the Apple ecosystem and get access to free Wi-Fi in all localities where there is an Airport Extreme nearby.

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post #54 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

PS: I would also gladly pay for AI to offer a paid SSL version of the site.

Other than the obvious benefit, anything specific? Would a proxy server be sufficient for your 'needs' until AI offers SSL?
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post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This sort of thing shouldn't be far off with cellular tech:

Ahh, the wireless perpetual motion machine...

RF spectrum is a constrained resource. Once it's saturated, that's it - it's used up. Also the more devices you have, the more issues you get into with collision, overlap, etc. And most current wireless standards are little better than ethernet at sensing activity and not stomping on someone else. At least with ethernet you have a defined medium with known characteristics (as long as people heed the length limits). Not so with wireless. Heck, you can get interference from just about anything - microwaves, cosmic waves, poorly shielded electrical equipment - so the theoretical maximums for most RF spectrum are really theoretical. The more variables you introduce into a complex system, the number of fail points rise exponentially. Layer stupid design on top of all that and you get the current mess. Quite honestly it's amazing it works as well as it does in the current use cases.

Peer to peer wireless can work, but it's hardly fast. And it won't scale. It's not replacing hard lines (be they copper, coax or fiber) any time soon.
post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Other than the obvious benefit, anything specific? Would a proxy server be sufficient for your 'needs' until AI offers SSL?

A VPN between my roaming device and a known good ISP entry point takes care of the low hanging fruit today, but as more and more exploits become prevalent and as more ISPs are attacked I don't think it's safe to assume that any point between you and the server you are connecting to is safe. It never really has been, but historically it's been impractical or pretty much unnecessary to worry about all the points between. It seems the safe ground and reasonable assumptions are quickly changing. Be the threats originate from governments, government backed/condoned hacker groups like the Russian hackers stealing large amounts of accounts that broke yesterday, or other groups. The only safe thing to assume is that everything is hostile. That has high costs and a large pain factor, but I think as time goes on people who really care are going to start using security as a major discriminator in their choices. This is just the beginning (finally!)
post #57 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This sort of thing shouldn't be far off with cellular tech:

Ahh, the wireless perpetual motion machine...

RF spectrum is a constrained resource. Once it's saturated, that's it - it's used up. Also the more devices you have, the more issues you get into with collision, overlap, etc. Heck, you can get interference from just about anything - microwaves, cosmic waves, poorly shielded electrical equipment - so the theoretical maximums for most RF spectrum are really theoretical.

Peer to peer wireless can work, but it's hardly fast. And it won't scale. It's not replacing hard lines (be they copper, coax or fiber) any time soon.

The system described and demonstrated with pCells uses interference to work. They are able to put as many transmitters as they want close to each other. There will still be a limit to how much it can scale but they think that stadium wifi is possible with it:

http://www.mobilesportsreport.com/2014/03/artemis-networks-adding-stadium-wi-fi-market-to-its-targets/

That's not cellular signals, it's wifi signals but uses the same antenna technology. They can use whichever works best in each scenario. Heavily congested, small spaces can use multiple wifi antennas if the range is acceptable. More open spaces can use the cell networks. This helps take the strain off the cellular networks.
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The system described and demonstrated with pCells uses interference to work. They are able to put as many transmitters as they want close to each other. There will still be a limit to how much it can scale but they think that stadium wifi is possible with it:

And I wish them luck. It would be awesome if it works as planned.

Still not holding my breath 1tongue.gif
post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

A VPN between my roaming device and a known good ISP entry point takes care of the low hanging fruit today, but as more and more exploits become prevalent and as more ISPs are attacked I don't think it's safe to assume that any point between you and the server you are connecting to is safe. It never really has been, but historically it's been impractical or pretty much unnecessary to worry about all the points between. It seems the safe ground and reasonable assumptions are quickly changing. Be the threats originate from governments, government backed/condoned hacker groups like the Russian hackers stealing large amounts of accounts that broke yesterday, or other groups. The only safe thing to assume is that everything is hostile. That has high costs and a large pain factor, but I think as time goes on people who really care are going to start using security as a major discriminator in their choices. This is just the beginning (finally!)

This I get, and agree upon. But what would the benefits be for having a secure connection to this site?
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post #60 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

This I get, and agree upon. But what would the benefits be for having a secure connection to this site?

Since I don't use a VPN and I do post stuff to this site I wouldn't mind an option to have what I write (and read) on this site encrypted on the local end as I do frequent open WiFi hotspots. I really can't think of what highly personal info could be stolen but I'd like the option to protect it nonetheless.

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post #61 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Since I don't use a VPN and I do post stuff to this site I wouldn't mind an option to have what I write (and read) on this site encrypted on the local end as I do frequent open WiFi hotspots. I really can't think of what highly personal info could be stolen but I'd like the option to protect it nonetheless.

Ok, so, open WiFi. Those are indeed fully open, so to speak. But once you hit the submit button that data you've sent is now on this forum, available to anyone. People don't even need an account to read it, so maybe you mean other data, like originating IP(?)
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post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Ok, so, open WiFi. Those are indeed fully open, so to speak. But once you hit the submit button that data you've sent is now on this forum, available to anyone. People don't even need an account to read it, so maybe you mean other data, like originating IP(?)

Private messages and account settings are unencrypted, too. My originating IP would be the same for everyone on the public WiFi.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Private messages and account settings are unencrypted, too. My originating IP would be the same for everyone on the public WiFi.

Aha, good point points.
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post #64 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Private messages and account settings are unencrypted, too. My originating IP would be the same for everyone on the public WiFi.

Most importantly the authentication token in your cookie is unencrypted - how many people think to log out when done surfing a site?
post #65 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


Most importantly the authentication token in your cookie is unencrypted - how many people think to log out when done surfing a site?

Hmm. I don't. Does surfing the web through the browser from 1Password help? I understand it automatically can log you in, but does it automatically log you out? Maybe I should pop that question I the appropriate thread.
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post #66 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Hmm. I don't. Does surfing the web through the browser from 1Password help? I understand it automatically can log you in, but does it automatically log you out? Maybe I should pop that question I the appropriate thread.

Nope. Once you authenticate with a site like AI, instead of continually asking you for your password the set a token in a cookie. That's your "session" - when you "log out" they just invalidate that token on the server and delete it from the cookie. If you don't log out theoretically someone could take your token and impersonate you.

That's why better sites ask for your password again before allowing any account information (or passwords) to be changed.
post #67 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

^ post.

Good to know, thanks.
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