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Apple and Samsung agree to settle all non-US litigation - Page 2

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post
 

Here comes the longest sentence I may ever have written...

 

The battle has shifted away from look and feel toward capabilities and Apple has been showing that it has created a wide lead in that realm with true 64 bit processing, Touch ID security and other security capabilities, tight integration across the mobile and laptop/desktop ecosystem, CarPlay, HomeKit, HealthKit, Metal, first priority among developers when creating new apps, build quality, style, a global high-end retail presence, key partnerships, on boarding of new management and creative talent, secret projects in the works we've yet to glimpse, potential for iPayments, indoor mapping, a location-aware services and promotion/coupon network for Apple's advertising partners, an up and coming streaming radio service and associated talent to augment iTunes Radio, Beats headphones, earbuds, speakers and audio systems, iWatch, a large screen iPhone or two to take away the Android camp's only remaining advantage, updated iPads with TouchId, an eventual updated AppleTV with 4K and enhanced gaming capabilities and growing live content streaming options, and a critical mass of loyal customers eagerly awaiting all of this and whatever Apple comes up with next. 

 

Exactly. To copy the look and feel is not so difficult as Samsung now observes while being eaten alive by the Chinese mobile makers charging a fraction of Samsung's price. To copy Apple's A7, Metal, Swift, Touch ID and the related ecosystem is a completely different matter and the Galaxy S5 is a great point in case. Apple has dramatically stepped up its game lately and clearly out-innovating the competion.

 

Now let's see what we don't know about iPhone 6 yet. What else is there beyond the rumored sapphire cover?

post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

These are only cases outside the US. I believe this is because the rest of the world is relatively lax on protections for IP (the United States is one of few countries that have strong property protection laws...property protection is integral to our Constitution) and Apple taking Samsung to court would be a waste of time.

Not sure the rest of the world is relaxed on the IP. I can't speak for all the world but western europe is not relaxed. However, lawyers can't expect percentage of damages and damages are generally lower compared to US. Also, some of the patents and innovations granted in the US may not be granted in other countries. And so you won't find the same type of patent trolling in many other countries.
post #43 of 65

Samsung's smartphone business is hurting now.  S5 is failing miserably.  Tablet business is struggling.  Smart watch...  LOL, well, you know.  And, Apple has been and will continue to source components away from Samsung as fast as possible without sacrificing quality.  A8 and probably all future micros will move away from Samsung.  This is hurting Samsung more than people realize.  Apple HATES Samsung, and wants to end all business dealings with them.  Samsung is a despicable company, and I for one (and hopefully hundreds of thousands more out there) will never buy another Samsung product.

 

That said, this is probably the time for Apple to settle with them.  I suspect the agreement comes with a multi-billion dollar payment from Samsung, which Apple may as well get now before Samsung's smartphone business plummets more and the courts (with their very short memories) come in and say, "Apple, why beat up on Samsung?  Can't you see that they are not doing well in the smartphone business?!?!?  Be nice..."  Nearly one out of every two smartphones in the US sold are iPhones.  You can only be awarded by the courts to the extent that you are hurt by the company who is copying you - Apple is hardly hurting.  So, settle with the loathing company now, get some money and hopefully a commitment by the thieves to STOP copying, source as much as possible away from them, continue to make awesome products, and call it a day.  Sounds good to me.

post #44 of 65

This is possibly a step in the right direction to allowing Samsung to save face in some way. Pragmatically it likely affects Samsung agreeing not to keep going after Apple for standard essential patents, something that has proven to be entirely ineffective and increasingly viewed as illegal, if Apple doesn't pursue litigation on a small number of design copying claims it has against Samsung outside the US. Samsung is still going to have to pay up in the existing cases and will continue to get punished in US courts. The fact that this didn't result in a cross licensing agreement is a clear sign that this issue is far from over unless Samsung takes a different path towards owning up to its wrongdoings. 

 

I don't think this shows any signs of "weakening" or lack of resolve by Apple. From the beginning Apple has always attempted to work this out mano-a-mano with Samsung's leaders. It's shocking that Samsung's leaders didn't take advantage of an opportunity to avoid public embarrassment and ridicule by altering their strategy early on. Perhaps Samsung felt emboldened by their success in the low end markets or by being a card carrying member of Club Android, backstopped and bankrolled by Google.

 

It was Samsung who refused to take the high road and accept Apple's offer to cut their losses and save face up front. In all likelihood Samsung had no Plan B and had so thoroughly copied Apple's designs that retooling and starting with their own original concepts was financially impossible. The high road path would have been to pursue licensing deals with Apple much like most of the Androiders did with Microsoft. Once Samsung refused to accept Apple's offers that would allow them to save face they went on what has been an entirely pathetic and childish counterattack. Samsung's counterclaims either had no merit or were fabricated by placing ridiculous licensing stipulations on Apple around standards essential patents. Samsung even purchased patents from other companies along the way in an an attempt to show up to the fight with at least a weapon in hand.

 

I hope that this agreement makes Samsung recognize that there is another path to pursue to righting a wrong that they inflicted upon Apple. Samsung is a company that is capable of doing many great things. They just need to grow up and stand on their own two feet and take the high road with respect to this matter. Apple has always tried to point them to the high road but they have obstinately refused to take the advice or their business partner, for reasons that are unbecoming of a mature, capable, and customer focused company. Samsung's real problems have nothing at all to do with Apple, they have everything to do with Samsung itself. Hopefully they will start to make the changes necessary to get their own ship in order before the rapidly awakening giant to their north crushes them. 

post #45 of 65

Samsung's smartphone business is hurting now.  S5 is failing miserably.  Tablet business is struggling.  Smart watch...  LOL, well, you know.  And, Apple has been and will continue to source components away from Samsung as fast as possible without sacrificing quality.  A8 and probably all future micros will move away from Samsung.  This is hurting Samsung more than people realize.  Apple HATES Samsung, and wants to end all business dealings with them.  Samsung is a despicable company, and I for one (and hopefully hundreds of thousands more out there) will never buy another Samsung product.

 

That said, this is probably the time for Apple to settle with them.  I suspect the agreement comes with a multi-billion dollar payment from Samsung, which Apple may as well get now before Samsung's smartphone business plummets more and the courts (with their very short memories) come in and say, "Apple, why beat up on Samsung?  Can't you see that they are not doing well in the smartphone business?!?!?  Be nice..."  Nearly one out of every two smartphones in the US sold are iPhones.  You can only be awarded by the courts to the extent that you are hurt by the company who is copying you - Apple is hardly hurting.  So, settle with the loathing company now, get some money and hopefully a commitment by the thieves to STOP copying, source as much as possible away from them, continue to make awesome products, and call it a day.  Sounds good to me.

post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkiwi View Post

How is this possible? I just saw the pics of the new Samsung Alpha. It was such an obvious copy I started yelling at the computer screen.

It's a good thing everyone knows I am crazy.

I don't think anyone is going to mistake this for an iPhone. It allegedly has chamfered edges. So what? Apple didn't invent the chamfer and other phone manufacturers have used it (see HTC One (M7)).

alpha_650_080514075547.jpg

If we want to talk about copying Apple right now the bigger rip off artist is Xiaomi. That's about as blatant as you can get.
post #47 of 65
So does that mean that Samsung will license the designs?
post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMG View Post


That said, this is probably the time for Apple to settle with them.  I suspect the agreement comes with a multi-billion dollar payment from Samsung

This was not announced as a licensing agreement so I seriously doubt any money is changing hands. It's simply a truce on new and existing litigation outside of the US. After the current appeals run their course here I expect a similar agreement for the US too.

It's been a mishmash of wins and losses so far and seemingly without end. There's also been harm done to the favorable reputation of both companies IMHO, tho Samsung got the worst of it. It may be that neither company sees any clear benefit to continuing court battles.
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post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


If we want to talk about copying Apple right now the bigger rip off artist is Xiaomi. That's about as blatant as you can get.

 

Are they the ones who make the Goophones?  They've always seem like the biggest copy cats to me.

post #50 of 65
I would love to see an ad from Apple with the song Truce from The Dresden Dolls in the background. :-P
"So take whatever you'd like
I'll strike like the States on fire
You won't sleep very tight
No hiding
No safe cover
Make your bed and now lie
Just like you always do
You can fake it for the papers but Im on to you, Im on to you"
post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

This was not announced as a licensing agreement so I seriously doubt any money is changing hands. It's simply a truce on new and existing litigation outside of the US. After the current appeals run their course here I expect a similar agreement for the US too.

It's been a mishmash of wins and losses so far and seemingly without end. There's also been harm done to the favorable reputation of both companies IMHO, tho Samsung got the worst of it. It may be that neither company sees any clear benefit to continuing court battles.

I posted something earlier about one of Apple's top interface designers (Bas Ording) leaving the company last year. One of the reasons was ongoing patent lawsuits. This guy was intimately involved in the user interface design of the iPhone. You don't want to see good people leave Apple because they feel like they're spending more time dealing with lawsuits than their job. My guess is most Apple employees will be happy about this. Apple made their statement, proved their point. We're now seeing with Samsung what all the copying really got them - which is basically not much. They don't have a real brand with loyal customers. And they don't have anything "sticky" to keep people buying their phones. I'm sure LG, and Xiaomi are stealing share from them and when Apple comes out with a larger phone there will be even more bleeding.
post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

Are they the ones who make the Goophones?  They've always seem like the biggest copy cats to me.

Here's a couple examples of Xiaomi's blatant copying. With their iPad mini-esque tablet they couldn't even bother to use different colors than the iPhone 5C. IMO this is much worse than anything Samsung ever did. But it would be difficult to go after them because they're Chinese and I believe so far their stuff isn't sold in the US.

Screen-Shot-2014-07-23-at-11.54.32-940x336.jpg

Screen-Shot-2014-07-23-at-12.51.53.jpg

Xiaomi-Mi-Pad.jpg
post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by sau124 View Post

Seriously? Apple is no longer a "Jobs" company. I would have preferred that Cook kept pushing and ensuring that the innovation is protected in the right way. Just my 2 cents!

Oh, I think Steve a jobs was about winning, and Apple under Tim Cook realizes that it's winning without taking further legal action. So Cook & Co have decided to avoid the distraction and just crush the competition in the marketplace.
Edited by RadarTheKat - 8/6/14 at 7:00am
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I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
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post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

Oh, I think Steve a jobs was about winning, and Apple under Tim Cook realizes that it's winning without taking further legal action. So Cook & Co have decided to avoid the distraction and just crush the competition in the marketplace.

Plus, this only concerns litigation outside the US.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #55 of 65

I think this has more to due with the recent press announcement that Samsung made about future profit outlooks than anything else. They realize they are on the downward slide and if they do not repair things with Apple they are going to hit bottom hard. Apple was the largest purchaser of parts in the world and Samsung use to be the lion share of that business. Well that is all changing and Samsung had to decide what is more important. They seeing the whole Android play is not working in their favor thanks to what Google has done.


Edited by Maestro64 - 8/7/14 at 9:45am
post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I don't think anyone is going to mistake this for an iPhone. It allegedly has chamfered edges. So what? Apple didn't invent the chamfer and other phone manufacturers have used it (see HTC One (M7)).

alpha_650_080514075547.jpg

If we want to talk about copying Apple right now the bigger rip off artist is Xiaomi. That's about as blatant as you can get.

EVERY phone manufacturer has copied Apple after 2007.

Does anyone remember flip phones and sidekicks? I often feel like I'm in a room full of 7-year-olds or the extreme elderly with amnesia.

Apple should have sued the pants off google and everyone immediately in 2008. I've seen iPhoneys and fake iPads EVERYWHERE today. The world has turned into China. I'll be in Texas and feel like I'm Chinese.

Apple lost Billions to these fakers and made a behemoth out of scamsung.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I posted something earlier about one of Apple's top interface designers (Bas Ording) leaving the company last year. One of the reasons was ongoing patent lawsuits. This guy was intimately involved in the user interface design of the iPhone. You don't want to see good people leave Apple because they feel like they're spending more time dealing with lawsuits than their job. My guess is most Apple employees will be happy about this. Apple made their statement, proved their point. We're now seeing with Samsung what all the copying really got them - which is basically not much. They don't have a real brand with loyal customers. And they don't have anything "sticky" to keep people buying their phones. I'm sure LG, and Xiaomi are stealing share from them and when Apple comes out with a larger phone there will be even more bleeding.

Not much? BILLIONS of dollars.
Those Billions were Apple's.
post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I dunno... "Beats" me. 1wink.gif

But what are they going to "Bass" the arguments on? lol.gif
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post #58 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

But what are they going to "Bass" the arguments on? lol.gif

Avoiding treble damages in infringement cases?1biggrin.gif
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post #59 of 65
Originally Posted by lostkiwi View Post
It was such an obvious copy I started yelling at the computer screen.

 

Ooh, I’ve had to do that before. And people wonder why I want the Norks to step up their game.

 

Originally Posted by cali View Post
Does anyone remember flip phones and sidekicks? I often feel like I'm in a room full of 7-year-olds or the extreme elderly with amnesia.

 

It’s amazing what people with supposedly working memories will forget.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Ooh, I’ve had to do that before. And people wonder why I want the Norks to step up their game.


It’s amazing what people with supposedly working memories will forget.
Wasn't that a TV show with a young Robin Williams?
Nork & Nindy?
😄
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post #61 of 65

Called it. 

post #62 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

Here comes the longest sentence I may ever have written...

The battle has shifted away from look and feel toward capabilities and Apple has been showing that it has created a wide lead in that realm with true 64 bit processing, Touch ID security and other security capabilities, tight integration across the mobile and laptop/desktop ecosystem, CarPlay, HomeKit, HealthKit, Metal, first priority among developers when creating new apps, build quality, style, a global high-end retail presence, key partnerships, on boarding of new management and creative talent, secret projects in the works we've yet to glimpse, potential for iPayments, indoor mapping, a location-aware services and promotion/coupon network for Apple's advertising partners, an up and coming streaming radio service and associated talent to augment iTunes Radio, Beats headphones, earbuds, speakers and audio systems, iWatch, a large screen iPhone or two to take away the Android camp's only remaining advantage, updated iPads with TouchId, an eventual updated AppleTV with 4K and enhanced gaming capabilities and growing live content streaming options, and a critical mass of loyal customers eagerly awaiting all of this and whatever Apple comes up with next. 

Nice.
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- African proverb
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post #63 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post

This is possibly a step in the right direction to allowing Samsung to save face in some way. Pragmatically it likely affects Samsung agreeing not to keep going after Apple for standard essential patents, something that has proven to be entirely ineffective and increasingly viewed as illegal, if Apple doesn't pursue litigation on a small number of design copying claims it has against Samsung outside the US. Samsung is still going to have to pay up in the existing cases and will continue to get punished in US courts. The fact that this didn't result in a cross licensing agreement is a clear sign that this issue is far from over unless Samsung takes a different path towards owning up to its wrongdoings. 


I don't think this shows any signs of "weakening" or lack of resolve by Apple. From the beginning Apple has always attempted to work this out mano-a-mano with Samsung's leaders. It's shocking that Samsung's leaders didn't take advantage of an opportunity to avoid public embarrassment and ridicule by altering their strategy early on. Perhaps Samsung felt emboldened by their success in the low end markets or by being a card carrying member of Club Android, backstopped and bankrolled by Google.

It was Samsung who refused to take the high road and accept Apple's offer to cut their losses and save face up front. In all likelihood Samsung had no Plan B and had so thoroughly copied Apple's designs that retooling and starting with their own original concepts was financially impossible. The high road path would have been to pursue licensing deals with Apple much like most of the Androiders did with Microsoft. Once Samsung refused to accept Apple's offers that would allow them to save face they went on what has been an entirely pathetic and childish counterattack. Samsung's counterclaims either had no merit or were fabricated by placing ridiculous licensing stipulations on Apple around standards essential patents. Samsung even purchased patents from other companies along the way in an an attempt to show up to the fight with at least a weapon in hand.

I hope that this agreement makes Samsung recognize that there is another path to pursue to righting a wrong that they inflicted upon Apple. Samsung is a company that is capable of doing many great things. They just need to grow up and stand on their own two feet and take the high road with respect to this matter. Apple has always tried to point them to the high road but they have obstinately refused to take the advice or their business partner, for reasons that are unbecoming of a mature, capable, and customer focused company. Samsung's real problems have nothing at all to do with Apple, they have everything to do with Samsung itself. Hopefully they will start to make the changes necessary to get their own ship in order before the rapidly awakening giant to their north crushes them. 

You're far too lenient on Samsung. Your post has a place in 2112.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #64 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cali View Post


EVERY phone manufacturer has copied Apple after 2007.
 

 

That's based on the false assumption simply having a slab touchscreen phone is copying.  That's BS.  If that was the case, Apple could be accussed of copying the LG Prada.  Form factors change and evolve, and a dominant pattern develops.  By your logic, every laptop after the Dulmont Magnum is a ripoff.  Before that, laptops didn't have the flip form factor.

post #65 of 65
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

That's based on the false assumption simply having a slab touchscreen phone is copying.

 

No, not at all.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
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