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China bans government agencies from purchasing Apple products - report

post #1 of 76
Thread Starter 
New procurement regulations handed down last month by the Chinese central government will prevent both national and local agencies from considering future purchases of some Apple products with public funds, a Wednesday report said.

Beijing Apple Store


All variants of the iPad and MacBook lines are affected by the ban, according to Bloomberg. Chinese officials familiar with the list told the publication that Apple's products were not excluded until late in the process.

That timing lines up with the appearance of reports on China's dominant state-run broadcaster that suggested the location tracking features in iOS could pose a "national security threat." Apple swiftly denied those accusations.

"Apple is deeply committed to protecting the privacy of all our customers," the company wrote in its response. "Privacy is built into our products and services from the earliest stages of design. We work tirelessly to deliver the most secure hardware and software in the world."

The Chinese government has grown increasingly wary in recent months of the influence that foreign technology companies wield both in the public and private sector, especially following revelations of the wide-ranging spying practices of the NSA and British Intelligence.

Last week, a similar procurement list covering computer security vendors was said to exclude both Symantec and Kaspersky, prominent security firms headquartered in the U.S. and Russia, respectively. Both companies downplayed the importance of that move, however, saying that the ban only applied to specific procurement processes.
post #2 of 76
IMO this is the one big fear with owning Apple stock is our reliance on China.
post #3 of 76
It's payback for the US government banning certain Chinese network router brands from government purchase, for the same alleged reason.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #4 of 76
Cook can nip this in the bud by simply raising all retail store salaries to the same level as the U.S.. Afterall, cook claims to be the champion of fairness. This will ingratiate apple to the Chinese people.

The Chinese government will be completely blindsided.

Same should be done in Turkey and other countries that have a disparity in wages.
post #5 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post

Cook can nip this in the bud by simply raising all retail store salaries to the same level as the U.S.. Afterall, cook claims to be the champion of fairness. This will ingratiate apple to the Chinese people.

The Chinese government will be completely blindsided.

Same should be done in Turkey and other countries that have a disparity in wages.

 

pretty good idea.

 

I don't think he needs to raise it as high as US salaries (cost of living is much cheaper) but paying them significantly more than other local companies may help

 

the funny thing is the phone isn't banned...

post #6 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post

This will ingratiate apple to the Chinese people.

The Chinese government will be completely blindsided.

Nope.
post #7 of 76
Well, why didn't they also ban iPhones? They run the same software as iPads.
post #8 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Apple is deeply committed to protecting the privacy of all our customers," the company wrote in its response. "Privacy is built into our products and services from the earliest stages of design. We work tirelessly to deliver the most secure hardware and software in the world."

Don't know about 'tirelessly' but they do seem to be the #1 when it comes down to security. Yet the Chinese government feels insecure. "Computer says no"

[/quote]The Chinese government has grown increasingly wary in recent months of the influence that foreign technology companies...[/quote]

Get used to it. If a country can't embrace the fruition of foreign inventions, it will lose out big time in the long run.
Quote:
Last week, a similar procurement list covering computer security vendors was said to exclude both Symantec and Kaspersky, prominent security firms headquartered in the U.S. and Russia, respectively. Both companies downplayed the importance of that move, however, saying that the ban only applied to specific procurement processes.

Apple could do the same, saying the Mac Mini is a great computer. Same goes for the iMac, the... well, you get the picture.
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #9 of 76

according to this chinese site it says Bloomburg got it wrong.

 

Apple is not banned.  They just need to file paper work

 

http://companies.caixin.com/2014-08-06/100713823.html

 

quote below from the article (translate using Google translate)

 

 

Today, foreign media reported that the Chinese government procurement list, including the exclusion of iPad, iPad Mini, MacBook Air, including 10 models of Apple products. The report quoted an unnamed official as saying, for safety considerations, the Chinese government has 10 Apple products removed from the procurement list, saying the Chinese government does not intend to buy Apple iPhone6.

 

"The reality is not so. July 28, the Ministry of Finance, Development and Reform Commission jointly issued the sixteenth issue of energy-saving products in government procurement notification list, Apple failed to enter the shopping list, but this is not the Chinese government banned the purchase of Apple, Apple may abandon themselves into energy-saving products in government procurement list. "aforementioned industry insiders said.

post #10 of 76

Protectionism - clear and simple.  They are giving Chinese knockoff brands like Xiaomi space to grow locally.

post #11 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post

Cook can nip this in the bud by simply raising all retail store salaries to the same level as the U.S.. Afterall, cook claims to be the champion of fairness. This will ingratiate apple to the Chinese people.

The Chinese government will be completely blindsided.

Same should be done in Turkey and other countries that have a disparity in wages.

 

That’s about as stupid as it gets.

post #12 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

pretty good idea.

 

I don't think he needs to raise it as high as US salaries (cost of living is much cheaper) but paying them significantly more than other local companies may help

 

the funny thing is the phone isn't banned...

 

The fact that the MacBook is banned and the iPhone isn't says a lot about the validity of their reasoning for the ban.

 

Funny how concerns about iOS tracking led to a ban on a product that doesn't use iOS, but left the most widely selling iOS product untouched.

 

This is another BS shakedown by the corrupt Chinese government. It is another example of why I think that non-Chinese companies who pin too much hope on China are fools. They would be much better off moving their production and sales to other regions of the world.

 

Heck, I am sure that Africa would love to get Apple's production.

post #13 of 76

We know the NSA and CIA spy on foreign countries including computer attacks. We also know the China government sponsors at least as much if not more hacking of US government installations. Neither is right but for China to attack Apple for this is ridiculous. Apple pays a lot of Chinese salaries, taxes (brides or whatever you want to call them), and any reduction in products will be felt. Of course, the Chinese government can simply buy Chinese and use the Android phones and iPhone knockoffs they get from their own companies, just like we used to demand for government purchases. This is how Ford and GM stayed in business. I know the Chinese government has a lot of employees with potential purchases but Apple doesn't sell to everyone so I don't see this as hurting AAPL stock. 

post #14 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

according to this chinese site it says Bloomburg got it wrong.

 

Apple is not banned.  They just need to file paper work

 

http://companies.caixin.com/2014-08-06/100713823.html

 

quote below from the article (translate using Google translate)

 

 

Today, foreign media reported that the Chinese government procurement list, including the exclusion of iPad, iPad Mini, MacBook Air, including 10 models of Apple products. The report quoted an unnamed official as saying, for safety considerations, the Chinese government has 10 Apple products removed from the procurement list, saying the Chinese government does not intend to buy Apple iPhone6.

 

"The reality is not so. July 28, the Ministry of Finance, Development and Reform Commission jointly issued the sixteenth issue of energy-saving products in government procurement notification list, Apple failed to enter the shopping list, but this is not the Chinese government banned the purchase of Apple, Apple may abandon themselves into energy-saving products in government procurement list. "aforementioned industry insiders said.

Well this could of course be a case of one word against another (with who knows maybe an attempt by the Chinese government to save face in its own country by putting out this statement). Since it's already known that Microsoft has been shut out of the current issue of energy saving products in government procurement, it isn't unthinkable that Apple would get the same treatment. But I guess we don't have enough details to determine who is right.


Edited by Chipsy - 8/6/14 at 6:45am
post #15 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post

Cook can nip this in the bud by simply raising all retail store salaries to the same level as the U.S.. Afterall, cook claims to be the champion of fairness. This will ingratiate apple to the Chinese people.

The Chinese government will be completely blindsided.

Same should be done in Turkey and other countries that have a disparity in wages.

 

Dude, do you Economics?

post #16 of 76

Apple is being made a political pawn in the chess game between China and the U.S. This all started when the U.S. banned sales of Chinese networking products, just like Microsoft and other U.S. tech companies.

 

http://techonomy.com/2013/04/huawei-zte-banned-from-selling-to-u-s-government/

 

Anyone who thinks this is anything other than politics is sorely delusional. Trying to assign some negative connotation towards Apple (like the dumbass comments about wage inequities) is just incredibly biased. This is international politics. Apple is the American standard bearer when it comes to brand recognition. It’s has a big political target on its back. Occam’s Razor applies here in spades.

post #17 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by maloderous View Post
 

Dude, do you even economics?

 

no, i dont economics. What?

post #18 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by maloderous View Post

Dude, do you Economics?

Is that a dance? 1biggrin.gif
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
Google Motto "You're not the customer. You're the product."
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post #19 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

That’s about as stupid as it gets.

I think that the public'a opinion about a company is greatly affected beyond the products they make.

Having the people perceive you as a company that benefits its employees, against the the better practice of maximizing profits by lowering costs, in the human resources department, might actually prove beneficial. It wouldn't be like Apple gives all the profits for the retail store, but I'm pretty sure that if Apple wanted to give the idea of being the best company and brand all around, they could have the best paid retail staff anywhere without it having an impact on their profitability.
post #20 of 76

Probably a little string pulling by Russia in there for good measure.

post #21 of 76
I could care less.
post #22 of 76

And you all think the US government does not have a similar Ban on certain product made outside the US. Hell the President is not allow use anything but a blackberry. 

 

The US government has list of products which all government agencies are allowed to buy from they can not buy anything which is not on that list. This is standard operating procedures for all government agencies around the world.

 

What we have here is another example of media creating FUD to get some sort of reaction, i.e manipulate a stock

post #23 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunkzombie View Post


I think that the public'a opinion about a company is greatly affected beyond the products they make.

Having the people perceive you as a company that benefits its employees, against the the better practice of maximizing profits by lowering costs, in the human resources department, might actually prove beneficial. It wouldn't be like Apple gives all the profits for the retail store, but I'm pretty sure that if Apple wanted to give the idea of being the best company and brand all around, they could have the best paid retail staff anywhere without it having an impact on their profitability.

 

Complete, utter nonsense and socialist utopian mindset.  If that were true then people should be flocking to American made goods, having a social conscience so that their fellow citizens can participate in the joys of a just economy (or other some such nonsensical pablum). Well guess what? They’re NOT. You put a shirt manufactured in the U.S. next to the same shirt made in Bangladesh (and five dollars cheaper) and the typical American consumer will buy the foreign made product every time. 

 

You think WRONG!

post #24 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

Apple is being made a political pawn in the chess game between China and the U.S. This all started when the U.S. banned sales of Chinese networking products, just like Microsoft and other U.S. tech companies.

 

http://techonomy.com/2013/04/huawei-zte-banned-from-selling-to-u-s-government/

 

Anyone who thinks this is anything other than politics is sorely delusional. Trying to assign some negative connotation towards Apple (like the dumbass comments about wage inequities) is just incredibly biased. This is international politics. Apple is the American standard bearer when it comes to brand recognition. It’s has a big political target on its back. Occam’s Razor applies here in spades.

The US advise (never banned) that companies in the US not buy Chinese made networking products due to back doors designed into the product, this is nothing new it dates back to the early 2000's.

post #25 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunkzombie View Post

I'm pretty sure that if Apple wanted to give the idea of being the best company and brand all around, they could have the best paid retail staff anywhere without it having an impact on their profitability.

 

Only if there was an increase in worker productivity (entirely possible) and/or an increase in sales resulting from an improved public opinion of the company that was large enough to at least offset the additional amount paid out in increased wages.  Otherwise it most definitely would impact their profitability.

 

IMO it would be difficult for Apple to pull it off on the public opinion front - their products are already fairly popular.  And there's diminishing returns for improving productivity by raising wages at some point when the job description remains static, so I think that one's unlikely given that Apple already pays their retail staff  better than minimum wage and has great loyalty from them.

You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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post #26 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Complete, utter nonsense and socialist utopian mindset.  If that were true then people should be flocking to American made goods, having a social conscience so that their fellow citizens can participate in the joys of a just economy (or other some such nonsensical pablum). Well guess what? They’re NOT. You put a shirt manufactured in the U.S. next to the same shirt made in Bangladesh (and five dollars cheaper) and the typical American consumer will buy the foreign made product every time. 

You think WRONG!


So you are saying that for the sake of greater profit it would be ok for the company that hires you to pay you nothing in return for the work you do. Remember I didn't say that they should pay 400 an hour to the staff working retail, just that having minimum wage workers selling equipment that goes by the thousands of dollars, at least I china, and moving on a single day goods worth several time more than what they sell with the public might not create a positive image of the company.
post #27 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post

Cook can nip this in the bud by simply raising all retail store salaries to the same level as the U.S.. Afterall, cook claims to be the champion of fairness. This will ingratiate apple to the Chinese people.

The Chinese government will be completely blindsided.

Same should be done in Turkey and other countries that have a disparity in wages.

 

Cook can nip the problem of the Chinese government being wary of security issues with the platform in the bud by... raising Apple employees' wages?  Maybe I misunderstand what you're getting at.

 

As for disparity in wages, in countries where the cost of living is disparate it would be nonsensical to make wages arbitrarily uniform.  It is important not to only look at one aspect of a complex issue.

You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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post #28 of 76

I'm sure that some other platforms are more open to, say, location-tracking malware.  At least when Apple fumbles the location tracking a bit they are quickly held publicly accountable.

You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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post #29 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

according to this chinese site it says Bloomburg got it wrong.

Apple is not banned.  They just need to file paper work

http://companies.caixin.com/2014-08-06/100713823.html

quote below from the article (translate using Google translate)


Today, foreign media reported that the Chinese government procurement list, including the exclusion of iPad, iPad Mini, MacBook Air, including 10 models of Apple products. The report quoted an unnamed official as saying, for safety considerations, the Chinese government has 10 Apple products removed from the procurement list, saying the Chinese government does not intend to buy Apple iPhone6.

"The reality is not so. July 28, the Ministry of Finance, Development and Reform Commission jointly issued the sixteenth issue of energy-saving products in government procurement notification list, Apple failed to enter the shopping list, but this is not the Chinese government banned the purchase of Apple, Apple may abandon themselves into energy-saving products in government procurement list. "aforementioned industry insiders said.
Surprise surprise. Something not true gets reported and spreads like wildfire because everyone these days is obsessed with page views and clicks. I really wish more site would take the time to verify things before they report them.
post #30 of 76
Ah yes, another tiny bit of justice is slipping into politics. Apple tilted very heavily toward Obama in 2008, with Steve Jobs (according to Isaacson's biography) offering to help with the campaign.

What's the result? Amazon managed to get the Obama administration DOJ to go after Apple and the major publishers. That's classic Chicago-machine politics. Color Apple's executives stupid on that. When you are dealing with Chicago politicians, you pay protection money/services or suffer the consequences.

Unable or unwilling to aggressively take on terrorism with bold military action, the Obama administration turned to ever more intrusive surveillance. Now every world leader from Germany to China is ticked off at us. Did Obama really need to read transcripts of what Germany's chancellor was saying on her cell phone? Probably not, but doing it must have given him a thrill.

Obama, the gamma-male among world political leaders, doesn't get many power thrills. Apple's executives are simply reaping what they sowed when they tilted toward the Democrats. No reason to feel sorry for them.
post #31 of 76

post #32 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunkzombie View Post


So you are saying that for the sake of greater profit it would be ok for the company that hires you to pay you nothing in return for the work you do. Remember I didn't say that they should pay 400 an hour to the staff working retail, just that having minimum wage workers selling equipment that goes by the thousands of dollars, at least I china, and moving on a single day goods worth several time more than what they sell with the public might not create a positive image of the company.

 

Apple doesn't pay their employees nothing.

 

Apple does pay more than minimum wage to their retail staff.

 

Referring to the value of goods sold as a factor in compensating sales employees has a name: commission sales.  The value of goods sold by salespeople paid an hourly rate is immaterial; if a worker feels that their employer is underpaying them they can find an employer that pays better (it happens every day).

 

I think Apple has a pretty positive public image, for the most part.

You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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post #33 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by colibri View Post

Protectionism - clear and simple.  They are giving Chinese knockoff brands like Xiaomi space to grow locally.

This! Any non-Chinese company looking towards China to grow is playing a fool's game. You have to be wilfully ignorant to ignore the ridiculous amount of protectionism and mercantilism the Chinese have been engaged in for over a decade.
post #34 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

Ah yes, another tiny bit of justice is slipping into politics. Apple tilted very heavily toward Obama in 2008, with Steve Jobs (according to Isaacson's biography) offering to help with the campaign.

What's the result? Amazon managed to get the Obama administration DOJ to go after Apple and the major publishers. That's classic Chicago-machine politics. Color Apple's executives stupid on that. When you are dealing with Chicago politicians, you pay protection money/services or suffer the consequences.

Unable or unwilling to aggressively take on terrorism with bold military action, the Obama administration turned to ever more intrusive surveillance. Now every world leader from Germany to China is ticked off at us. Did Obama really need to read transcripts of what Germany's chancellor was saying on her cell phone? Probably not, but doing it must have given him a thrill.

Obama, the gamma-male among world political leaders, doesn't get many power thrills. Apple's executives are simply reaping what they sowed when they tilted toward the Democrats. No reason to feel sorry for them.

Dam you, Obama!

(The right wing nutjobs' arguments are not even internally consistent. Obama retaliated against Apple because Apple was very pro-Obama. What?)

Also, you are aware that the NSA PRISM program began in 2007, right? I am guessing you think Obama used his birth certificate forgng time machine to go start the PRISM program before he was elected president.
post #35 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post

Cook can nip this in the bud by simply raising all retail store salaries to the same level as the U.S.. Afterall, cook claims to be the champion of fairness. This will ingratiate apple to the Chinese people.

The Chinese government will be completely blindsided.

Same should be done in Turkey and other countries that have a disparity in wages.


Incredibly stupid.

Daniel Swanson

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Daniel Swanson

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post #36 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wings View Post

Well, why didn't they also ban iPhones? They run the same software as iPads.

Because Chinese big-shots want fancy phones just as much as we do :)

post #37 of 76

This article is FUD!

 

Equally important, most of the comments posted here are equally FUD.

 

Best the FUD'rs delete their comments. Otherwise you really look like the a-hole who originally blogged the article.

 

http://companies.caixin.com/2014-08-06/100713823.html

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcompanies.caixin.com%2F2014-08-06%2F100713823.html

post #38 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjose1929 View Post

Cook can nip this in the bud by simply raising all retail store salaries to the same level as the U.S.. Afterall, cook claims to be the champion of fairness. This will ingratiate apple to the Chinese people.

The Chinese government will be completely blindsided.

Same should be done in Turkey and other countries that have a disparity in wages.

 

1.  According to another posting above, this report was bogus anyway and Apple's products are not banned from government purchases.

 

2.  Your idea wouldn't work anyway.

 

3.  It's not necessary (or even desirable) to raise wages to U.S. levels because that wouldn't be the equivalent wage anyway since the cost of living is different.   If you wanted to equalize wages, the way to do it would be to create a "basket" of commonly bought items and equalize wages based upon the number of hours at any given wage rate it takes to acquire them.     For example, if a typical grocery buy is $100 in the U.S. and workers are paid $20 an hour that's five hours.    If an equivalent basket costs $25 in China, you'd pay the workers $5 an hour.

 

However, even that may be too much because if a major employer substantially raises wages, that can cause inflation. 

 

4.  If the report was accurate, it's yet another reason why Apple should not be doing virtually all manufacturing in  China.  I've always felt that the most ethical way to manufacture is close to each of the markets that you're in so that the countries with consumers who buy your products also benefit from the jobs.    However, critics say that wouldn't work because the parts manufacturers are in China and you have to be near them.   But the Chinese Government has too much arbitrary power and it places too much of the business at risk.  

post #39 of 76
US should ban Lenovo from government purchases.
post #40 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
 

And you all think the US government does not have a similar Ban on certain product made outside the US. Hell the President is not allow use anything but a blackberry. 

 

BlackBerry is Canadian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

Apple is being made a political pawn in the chess game between China and the U.S. This all started when the U.S. banned sales of Chinese networking products, just like Microsoft and other U.S. tech companies.

 

Huawei and ZTE have not been banned by the US; it was recommended by a Congressional committee, but not implemented.

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